Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

If you sleep more than eight hours just take dose 1 when you wake and dose 3 at bedtime.  Take dose 2 eight hours after dose 1.  Each dose should be 1/3rd of your total daily weight.

 

Why are you afraid of not feeling the cut - that's the goal.  What you might do is look back on your recent tapering and figure a daily rate.  That number will give you a good idea of what you can handle.  My suggestion is to cut that amount daily, but I know you are averse to that from your previous experience.  But you can still use it to figure your hold days.  For example, if you want to cut every three days just multiply the daily rate by three.  If you want to cut every two days multiply it by two.  For four days multiply it by four.

I have been back to mostly sleeping my usual 8-9 hours, thank god! Also a lot less interrupted sleep. Sleep is so healing for me. I also take my last meds around 30-45 min before I actually go to sleep. It is usually around 10 hours without dosing, which I know is a lot, especially with my rapid metabolizing. I just can't wake up to dose and lose sleep. Tomorrow, I will try to wait 8 hours to take dose 2. My body is used to me taking it 6 hours after. I was taking it 9 hours after the first dose in the beginning of my C/O, but that caused interdose wd. My doses are 19mg, 18mg, and 18mgs. I am keeping them even.

 

I am not afraid of not feeling the cut. Usually, that is ideal. If I don't feel the cut I won't know how long my body takes to notice a cut and if stables the same way as with K. I am not sure if do to the possible lag time of V, I might need a little more time to stabilize. That's why I thought I should try to make my first cut one that I would probably feel. If I look back on my recent tapering of K I can handle 5-6% a week or 2.5-3% every 3rd day. I am willing to cut every third day and probably I would try every other day. I appreciate your suggestion and I see where that makes sense for many. Every day is not something I am willing to try at this time. So you don't think I should try to make a cut that I will probably feel a little? Just this one time

 

That could be useful to know.  I agree it might be a good idea to make the first cut a little bigger to find out your lag time.  But I would not keep doing that.  Those symptoms are avoidable.

 

Whether you cut daily or not the daily number is still useful to know.  It gives you an idea of how much you can "process" in a day.  How much you heal and recover in a day.

 

5% a week is .7% a day, which is .38mg a day at your current dose.  So you could try .8mg every other day.  That is reasonable and in line with experience as it is ~21% a month.  I would not typically advise beginning there, but you have your history to look back on and it is telling you it should be okay.  So you could try it for a while and adjust from there.

[[ga...]]

SG,

Today is my first day with no more K (hopefully ever again). This cross and the one before it, I crossed 5mg of V for .25mg of K because the week of 4mg every other day went so well. This is the first cross where I feel it a little. It's not bad. My body is just used to having more benzo in it by this time. I can tell it's a very little bit agitated, but adjusting. I took my last dose yesterday at 12am and then didn't take today's first dose until 12pm. I ended up going to bed really late. I will take my second dose of V at 6 and third at 12am. Does that make sense? It's the same way I was dosing V when dosing K, every 6 hours and K was every 3, besides at night. I am not sure yet if I will need to add a 4th dose of V. I am sure my body will adjust by Sat and I will know then. I am taking 19mg, then 18mg, and then another 18mgs. I plan to hold for a week and then unless I am not feeling good, do a 3.5% cut. To see how long it take me to feel the cut, adjust etc. My pdoc, unfortunately, would not give me 2mg pills yet. I have 10mg and 5mg pills now and plenty of them. I will use the scale. I was hoping for your input. I also wanted to once again thank you so much for helping me have such an easy cross! I am feeling much better and the interdose wd is a lot better! You really helped me and I really appreciate it!

 

XO Maya

 

Wow, that is the coolest, happiest thing I have heard all week! Congratulations! 

 

Gard

[Guest [Ma...]]

Hi Gardner,

Thought I would swing by here and say "thanks". Looks like we are both into squash these days!!

My daughter painted fun faces on all my squash making it harder to turn them into soup!

 

How have you been?

 

I'm recovering from a dreadful, pharmacy fiasco where my X capsules were displaced by an entire decimal place plummeting my .448 mg to .048 mg total per day.

An essential c/t.

No one would believe my pain level until capsules were verified.

To add to the confusion, the bottle was labeled correctly but the capsules were all incorrect.

I will be off all the X this weekend. No point going back up to .448.

What's done is done.

Now onto tapering my 7 mg V.

 

Hugs,

Marija.

 

 

Maya - congratulations!!!  Happy for you 💗

 

[[Ma...]]

If you sleep more than eight hours just take dose 1 when you wake and dose 3 at bedtime.  Take dose 2 eight hours after dose 1.  Each dose should be 1/3rd of your total daily weight.

 

Why are you afraid of not feeling the cut - that's the goal.  What you might do is look back on your recent tapering and figure a daily rate.  That number will give you a good idea of what you can handle.  My suggestion is to cut that amount daily, but I know you are averse to that from your previous experience.  But you can still use it to figure your hold days.  For example, if you want to cut every three days just multiply the daily rate by three.  If you want to cut every two days multiply it by two.  For four days multiply it by four.

I have been back to mostly sleeping my usual 8-9 hours, thank god! Also a lot less interrupted sleep. Sleep is so healing for me. I also take my last meds around 30-45 min before I actually go to sleep. It is usually around 10 hours without dosing, which I know is a lot, especially with my rapid metabolizing. I just can't wake up to dose and lose sleep. Tomorrow, I will try to wait 8 hours to take dose 2. My body is used to me taking it 6 hours after. I was taking it 9 hours after the first dose in the beginning of my C/O, but that caused interdose wd. My doses are 19mg, 18mg, and 18mgs. I am keeping them even.

 

I am not afraid of not feeling the cut. Usually, that is ideal. If I don't feel the cut I won't know how long my body takes to notice a cut and if stables the same way as with K. I am not sure if do to the possible lag time of V, I might need a little more time to stabilize. That's why I thought I should try to make my first cut one that I would probably feel. If I look back on my recent tapering of K I can handle 5-6% a week or 2.5-3% every 3rd day. I am willing to cut every third day and probably I would try every other day. I appreciate your suggestion and I see where that makes sense for many. Every day is not something I am willing to try at this time. So you don't think I should try to make a cut that I will probably feel a little? Just this one time

 

That could be useful to know.  I agree it might be a good idea to make the first cut a little bigger to find out your lag time.  But I would not keep doing that.  Those symptoms are avoidable.

 

Whether you cut daily or not the daily number is still useful to know.  It gives you an idea of how much you can "process" in a day.  How much you heal and recover in a day.

 

5% a week is .7% a day, which is .38mg a day at your current dose.  So you could try .8mg every other day.  That is reasonable and in line with experience as it is ~21% a month.  I would not typically advise beginning there, but you have your history to look back on and it is telling you it should be okay.  So you could try it for a while and adjust from there.

I think it is very useful to know. I would not keep doing that if making smaller cuts more often worked out better. I, of course, prefer not avoid sxs as much as possible especially since my baseline isn't great after so many years of harm and tol wd from K. I think my first cut will be Wed night or Thurs am and I will cut 2mgs, which is a 3.6%. I agree the daily number is useful to know and at some point I would try cutting daily. I won't now.

 

I could cut more than 5% a month with K. I easily could cut 5.8% a week. Also if I cut every three days, I was able to cut more. I will see how my first cut goes and adjust accordingly. I think starting off with .8mgs every other day would be ok, but I will probably start with every third day...especially if it takes longer to feel cuts.

 

I took my last dose at 12:30am. Then my first dose at 11am. I will see if I can wait 8 hours to take my 2nd dose like you suggested, but I may need to take it after 6 hours like I have been doing. We will see. It is weird to not be dosing every 3 hours. It's great, but takes getting used to after so many years of dosing more often than I am the last two days. I will get it used to it. It's not upsetting or anything. I will let you know if I decide to add a 4th dose and when I do my first cut. Thanks so much for continuing to help me! I don't know what I would do without you. Please never leave 

I hope you are feeling well and seeing improvements in your sxs, especially the teeth one!

 

XO Maya 

[[Ma...]]

Gardener,

Thank you so much! That made my heart smile. That means a lot! Thanks for all your support and help! How are you? I hope you are feeling better and that your appt with the sleep psych went well. Lots of love to you!

 

Marija,

Thank you so much! You have been so encouraging and helpful! I am so sorry about he horrific fiasco with the pharmacy. I am glad you at least know now. That is so messed up! I hope being only on V will be better for! Also I am sure being given the correct dose will make things better. Big hugs!

 

XO Maya 

[[ga...]]

Hi Gardner,

Thought I would swing by here and say "thanks". Looks like we are both into squash these days!!

My daughter painted fun faces on all my squash making it harder to turn them into soup!

 

How have you been?

 

I'm recovering from a dreadful, pharmacy fiasco where my X capsules were displaced by an entire decimal place plummeting my .448 mg to .048 mg total per day.

An essential c/t.

No one would believe my pain level until capsules were verified.

To add to the confusion, the bottle was labeled correctly but the capsules were all incorrect.

I will be off all the X this weekend. No point going back up to .448.

What's done is done.

Now onto tapering my 7 mg V.

 

Hugs,

Marija.

 

 

Maya - congratulations!!!  Happy for you 💗

 

What a disaster with your X! You are very brave to keep moving forward to be off the X. I hope you are starting to feel better from that mix up. I'm very curious to hear how this big drop effects you and how you recover from it. I sure hope the V covers most of the bad stuff OK for you. I often think I should just speed up my taper of the X and get it over with. I struggle so much with poor daily functioning, worry about my kids, neuropathy, depression. And yet I'm tapering less than 7%/month. It makes no sense. There must be something else in play here.

 

The appointment with the sleep psychologist went OK. She just gathered a lot of info. I have another appointment next week to learn more. The long drive (not me driving) on the highway was very hard. I'm not looking forward to going again and again. Highway speeds make me ill since the benzos. I think I need to do some guided mediation and put this out of my mind for awhile, right.

 

Hope you do OK with your abrupt med change. Keep us posted!

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

Gardener,

Thank you so much! That made my heart smile. That means a lot! Thanks for all your support and help! How are you? I hope you are feeling better and that your appt with the sleep psych went well. Lots of love to you!

 

Marija,

Thank you so much! You have been so encouraging and helpful! I am so sorry about he horrific fiasco with the pharmacy. I am glad you at least know now. That is so messed up! I hope being only on V will be better for! Also I am sure being given the correct dose will make things better. Big hugs!

 

XO Maya 

 

Hi Maya. Good to see that you seem to be doing well. I'm feeling OK, not awful not good. Still struggling with a lot of stuff. Trying to up my taper pace because slowing it to almost nothing is the only thing that reduces my symptoms and that's not really acceptable. So now trying to push through. We'll see how long I last! Knowing me, maybe a week. 

[[my...]]

Here is yet another taper question for SG 

 

Mana here....OK, so I have hit a wall...not a sxs wall (thankfully) but a math/mg into gram wall.  I cannot remember how I came up with a method of converting a reduction of .03125 mg into the equivalent total gram amount and then dividing it into three doses, tapering each subsequent dose by .03125 at the next cut.  Oh well....I'll be OK until after the next cut, at which point I will have to begin again.  Previously, when I had a grip on this, I saw that I would simply double the amount I cut from the gram doses, one at a time, after three cuts, then repeat by tripling the amount, etc etc but at the moment I have no clue how I came up with this method!!! 

 

SG, can you make any sense out of what I did, looking at my signature and knowing how I am hoping to cut each dose every 10 days (or thereabout) and once all are cut, repeat the rotation until at some point the .03125 becomes too big of a percentage and I will commence somme version of a MT?

 

I know it's late where you are - I think - so will wait to hear tomorrow or whenever you check the thread again.

 

 

So great to have your input....

 

[[...]]

Here is yet another taper question for SG 

 

Mana here....OK, so I have hit a wall...not a sxs wall (thankfully) but a math/mg into gram wall.  I cannot remember how I came up with a method of converting a reduction of .03125 mg into the equivalent total gram amount and then dividing it into three doses, tapering each subsequent dose by .03125 at the next cut.  Oh well....I'll be OK until after the next cut, at which point I will have to begin again.  Previously, when I had a grip on this, I saw that I would simply double the amount I cut from the gram doses, one at a time, after three cuts, then repeat by tripling the amount, etc etc but at the moment I have no clue how I came up with this method!!! 

 

SG, can you make any sense out of what I did, looking at my signature and knowing how I am hoping to cut each dose every 10 days (or thereabout) and once all are cut, repeat the rotation until at some point the .03125 becomes too big of a percentage and I will commence somme version of a MT?

 

I know it's late where you are - I think - so will wait to hear tomorrow or whenever you check the thread again.

 

 

So great to have your input....

 

It looks like your dose is .6875mgK and you want to cut by .03125mg.  That's 4.5%.  An easy way to do this is to not even bother with the dose.  You can just work with the weight.  If you reduce each dose weight by 4.5% it will be a 4.5% dose cut too.  To do this, take your current weights and multiply them by .955 (because 1-.045=.955).  That's it.  The new numbers are your new doses.  Each dose will go down by 4.5% so your total dose will go down by 4.5%.

[Guest [Ma...]]

Hi Gardner,

Thought I would swing by here and say "thanks". Looks like we are both into squash these days!!

My daughter painted fun faces on all my squash making it harder to turn them into soup!

 

How have you been?

 

I'm recovering from a dreadful, pharmacy fiasco where my X capsules were displaced by an entire decimal place plummeting my .448 mg to .048 mg total per day.

An essential c/t.

No one would believe my pain level until capsules were verified.

To add to the confusion, the bottle was labeled correctly but the capsules were all incorrect.

I will be off all the X this weekend. No point going back up to .448.

What's done is done.

Now onto tapering my 7 mg V.

 

Hugs,

Marija.

 

 

Maya - congratulations!!!  Happy for you 💗

 

What a disaster with your X! You are very brave to keep moving forward to be off the X. I hope you are starting to feel better from that mix up. I'm very curious to hear how this big drop effects you and how you recover from it. I sure hope the V covers most of the bad stuff OK for you. I often think I should just speed up my taper of the X and get it over with. I struggle so much with poor daily functioning, worry about my kids, neuropathy, depression. And yet I'm tapering less than 7%/month. It makes no sense. There must be something else in play here.

 

The appointment with the sleep psychologist went OK. She just gathered a lot of info. I have another appointment next week to learn more. The long drive (not me driving) on the highway was very hard. I'm not looking forward to going again and again. Highway speeds make me ill since the benzos. I think I need to do some guided mediation and put this out of my mind for awhile, right.

 

Hope you do OK with your abrupt med change. Keep us posted!

 

Gard

 

Gardener,

The error took place late September when I was on 4 mg of V, was not crossing yet, no V was added to blunt the blow, and I was reassured that it was only a 2.5% drop. If my level of pain was a result of a 2.5% drop, I thought I was sunk, that I would never get off this - the pain level was barbaric and inhumane.

The good news, adding in 3 mg V helped tremendously. It took away all the interdose withdrawal, the morning cortisol blasts, the persisting parasthesia, calmed my right facial trigeminal neuralgia, and allows me to sleep through the night.

The one negative; increased head aches but am unsure if this is still the rapid removal of X or adding the V. But in balance, functioning much better on the V.

Today is my last dose of X -.017 and I am thankful not to require a compounding pharmacy from this point forward.

I feel significantly better off the X, Gardner. I have regained functionality and am able to keep up with raising my children, driving, cooking, extra curricular activities etc. I haven't gone back to work yet, but in time.

 

Gardner, I'm praying something turns for you soon. You've been in the trenches for a while. I fully understand the pain you describe and the worry you have for your children.

Good luck next week with your appointment and keep us updated.

 

Always thinking about you 

Marija

 

 

 

 

[[ga...]]

 

Gardener,

The error took place late September when I was on 4 mg of V, was not crossing yet, no V was added to blunt the blow, and I was reassured that it was only a 2.5% drop. If my level of pain was a result of a 2.5% drop, I thought I was sunk, that I would never get off this - the pain level was barbaric and inhumane.

The good news, adding in 3 mg V helped tremendously. It took away all the interdose withdrawal, the morning cortisol blasts, the persisting parasthesia, calmed my right facial trigeminal neuralgia, and allows me to sleep through the night.

The one negative; increased head aches but am unsure if this is still the rapid removal of X or adding the V. But in balance, functioning much better on the V.

Today is my last dose of X -.017 and I am thankful not to require a compounding pharmacy from this point forward.

I feel significantly better off the X, Gardner. I have regained functionality and am able to keep up with raising my children, driving, cooking, extra curricular activities etc. I haven't gone back to work yet, but in time.

 

Gardner, I'm praying something turns for you soon. You've been in the trenches for a while. I fully understand the pain you describe and the worry you have for your children.

Good luck next week with your appointment and keep us updated.

 

Always thinking about you 

Marija

 

Marija, I'm so glad to hear you got through the big X crash and that you are so much better on the V. And today is your last dose of X!! 

 

How long were you in the crash before you figured it out and added the V? And then how long before you started to feel better? I ask this because my daughter's winter break is coming up and she will be off school for 6 weeks (except for an online class) very soon. I am thinking this would be a good time to push my X taper speed up as see how fast I can go. But I wonder, if I crash big time, will I recover and if so, how long to recover? If I don't have her here to take care of me, I'll end up in a psych ward and could be forced to c/t. That happened to me (voluntary because I actually believed they would help me, naive me) the last time I stupidly rushed my X. It was before I knew the Ashton method and was just tapering according to my doctor's plan. Again, naive me. Fortunately, I got out of there because I butted heads with the psychiatrist over her plan (politely, after all she had the key) and she got mad and threatening because she wasn't used to be questioned, and discharged me AMA kind of to spite me. But I was like  . I went home to suffer a month of misery and my daughter finally had to come and take care of me. But at least I was safe. Now I'm scared to death of psych wards. And scared to push my taper in case I might end up in one. So I'm thinking that if she's here for 6 weeks, that might be the time to try.

 

I'm down to .25mg of X and 30mg of L per day. I really want to get off of this X but don't want to add more L. I'm concerned about how depressing L is for me. The sooner I'm off the X, the sooner I can start to get rid of the L. 

 

Right now I'm making sure Christmas is ready so if I'm a wreck from pushing the taper, it will still happen. I have most of my goodies made or bought and in the freezer. Waiting for a couple of gifts for my kids to arrive in the mail. Will get my cards out soon, really short list this year, but nobody will be surprised not to get one. I have always been inconsistent on Christmas cards, even pre-benzo!

 

So, that's me. Moving slowly toward what will be a very low key Christmas. I do have some windows, they just don't last long. But I enjoy them and hold onto them. I've been doing a lot more meditating (using a guided meditation CD for pain management). I'm surprised at how much this helps. I recommend it for anyone who has the time!

 

BTW, I'm wondering, did you actually eat those squash? 

 

Hugs,

Gard

[Guest [Ma...]]

 

Gardener,

The error took place late September when I was on 4 mg of V, was not crossing yet, no V was added to blunt the blow, and I was reassured that it was only a 2.5% drop. If my level of pain was a result of a 2.5% drop, I thought I was sunk, that I would never get off this - the pain level was barbaric and inhumane.

The good news, adding in 3 mg V helped tremendously. It took away all the interdose withdrawal, the morning cortisol blasts, the persisting parasthesia, calmed my right facial trigeminal neuralgia, and allows me to sleep through the night.

The one negative; increased head aches but am unsure if this is still the rapid removal of X or adding the V. But in balance, functioning much better on the V.

Today is my last dose of X -.017 and I am thankful not to require a compounding pharmacy from this point forward.

I feel significantly better off the X, Gardner. I have regained functionality and am able to keep up with raising my children, driving, cooking, extra curricular activities etc. I haven't gone back to work yet, but in time.

 

Gardner, I'm praying something turns for you soon. You've been in the trenches for a while. I fully understand the pain you describe and the worry you have for your children.

Good luck next week with your appointment and keep us updated.

 

Always thinking about you 

Marija

 

Marija, I'm so glad to hear you got through the big X crash and that you are so much better on the V. And today is your last dose of X!! 

 

How long were you in the crash before you figured it out and added the V? And then how long before you started to feel better? I ask this because my daughter's winter break is coming up and she will be off school for 6 weeks (except for an online class) very soon. I am thinking this would be a good time to push my X taper speed up as see how fast I can go. But I wonder, if I crash big time, will I recover and if so, how long to recover? If I don't have her here to take care of me, I'll end up in a psych ward and could be forced to c/t. That happened to me (voluntary because I actually believed they would help me, naive me) the last time I stupidly rushed my X. It was before I knew the Ashton method and was just tapering according to my doctor's plan. Again, naive me. Fortunately, I got out of there because I butted heads with the psychiatrist over her plan (politely, after all she had the key) and she got mad and threatening because she wasn't used to be questioned, and discharged me AMA kind of to spite me. But I was like  . I went home to suffer a month of misery and my daughter finally had to come and take care of me. But at least I was safe. Now I'm scared to death of psych wards. And scared to push my taper in case I might end up in one. So I'm thinking that if she's here for 6 weeks, that might be the time to try.

 

I'm down to .25mg of X and 30mg of L per day. I really want to get off of this X but don't want to add more L. I'm concerned about how depressing L is for me. The sooner I'm off the X, the sooner I can start to get rid of the L. 

 

Right now I'm making sure Christmas is ready so if I'm a wreck from pushing the taper, it will still happen. I have most of my goodies made or bought and in the freezer. Waiting for a couple of gifts for my kids to arrive in the mail. Will get my cards out soon, really short list this year, but nobody will be surprised not to get one. I have always been inconsistent on Christmas cards, even pre-benzo!

 

So, that's me. Moving slowly toward what will be a very low key Christmas. I do have some windows, they just don't last long. But I enjoy them and hold onto them. I've been doing a lot more meditating (using a guided meditation CD for pain management). I'm surprised at how much this helps. I recommend it for anyone who has the time!

 

BTW, I'm wondering, did you actually eat those squash? 

 

Hugs,

Gard

 

Hi Gardner,

That would wonderful to finish off your X while your daughter is there to help.

 

Reading back in my journal, I "knew" something was wrong on 9/28.  I began introducing my "new" capsules and within 8 hours was deep in the weeds. At that time, I was on .48 mg of X total. I was dropped to .048X total. (If their log was accurate and matches my spreadsheets. We are still in the process of determine where the error(s) exactly occured. I have kept capsules from as far back as the summer and am having them sent out for independent testing)

10/13 - added 1 mg V.  Nothing. Extreme pain.

11/19 - added 1 mg V  better, but still not in a good place

11/2 - added 1 more mg V.  Much better.

11/29 - I received a call confirming what my body already knew: the capsules were incorrect. Began dropping the remaining .048X without adding V. I've been able to do this in a week without consequence.

1 month, Gardner, 1 month.

October was painful but after that I improved greatly.

After adding in 2 mg V, I rapidly improved.

 

Gardner, after all is said and done, despite all the errors,  I am glad to be off the X.  I feel much, much better.

I hope the same for you!  You have 6 weeks and will be in control of your amounts. No guessing if your dosage is accurate or not.  You are in control.

You've made all your "holiday" preparations in advance, cookies are ready, gifts on there way, and your daughter will be by your side. Low key is fabulous!! 

You are so close with the remaining .25mg.

I'm rooting for you!

 

The only piece of advice I am qualified to pass along is to say "listen and trust your body" and make adjustments sooner than later.

I placed my trust in the wrong place. 

I know compounding pharmacies work well for many people; but not me....twice burned....never a third time.

it's the added variable that  the "professionals" "blame" the patient until the error is found. Horrible feeling. A poor responder.

 

As for the squash, yes!!!  We've been enjoying curry/squash soup!!

 

Marija💗

[[my...]]

Thanks, SG.  But the percentage will increase with each cut, so do I just figure the percentage, then convert?  Somehow, I came up with an easier way last time with the same result.  I'll have to play with the math on paper as I cannot visualize in the abstract.  But for this cut, the 4.5% works.  Thank you!!

[[...]]

Thanks, SG.  But the percentage will increase with each cut, so do I just figure the percentage, then convert?  Somehow, I came up with an easier way last time with the same result.  I'll have to play with the math on paper as I cannot visualize in the abstract.  But for this cut, the 4.5% works.  Thank you!!

 

If you keep multiplying your current dose by .955 it will always be a 4.5% cut.  It has a built in adjustment.  The percentage will always be 4.5% and your actual cut size will be slightly smaller each time (because you figure it from the current dose which is slowly getting smaller).

[[an...]]

Hi Gardner,

Thought I would swing by here and say "thanks". Looks like we are both into squash these days!!

My daughter painted fun faces on all my squash making it harder to turn them into soup!

 

How have you been?

 

I'm recovering from a dreadful, pharmacy fiasco where my X capsules were displaced by an entire decimal place plummeting my .448 mg to .048 mg total per day.

An essential c/t.

No one would believe my pain level until capsules were verified.

To add to the confusion, the bottle was labeled correctly but the capsules were all incorrect.

I will be off all the X this weekend. No point going back up to .448.

What's done is done.

Now onto tapering my 7 mg V.

 

Hugs,

Marija.

 

 

Maya - congratulations!!!  Happy for you 💗

 

What a disaster with your X! You are very brave to keep moving forward to be off the X. I hope you are starting to feel better from that mix up. I'm very curious to hear how this big drop effects you and how you recover from it. I sure hope the V covers most of the bad stuff OK for you. I often think I should just speed up my taper of the X and get it over with. I struggle so much with poor daily functioning, worry about my kids, neuropathy, depression. And yet I'm tapering less than 7%/month. It makes no sense. There must be something else in play here.

 

The appointment with the sleep psychologist went OK. She just gathered a lot of info. I have another appointment next week to learn more. The long drive (not me driving) on the highway was very hard. I'm not looking forward to going again and again. Highway speeds make me ill since the benzos. I think I need to do some guided mediation and put this out of my mind for awhile, right.

 

Hope you do OK with your abrupt med change. Keep us posted!

 

Gard

 

Gardener,

The error took place late September when I was on 4 mg of V, was not crossing yet, no V was added to blunt the blow, and I was reassured that it was only a 2.5% drop. If my level of pain was a result of a 2.5% drop, I thought I was sunk, that I would never get off this - the pain level was barbaric and inhumane.

The good news, adding in 3 mg V helped tremendously. It took away all the interdose withdrawal, the morning cortisol blasts, the persisting parasthesia, calmed my right facial trigeminal neuralgia, and allows me to sleep through the night.

The one negative; increased head aches but am unsure if this is still the rapid removal of X or adding the V. But in balance, functioning much better on the V.

Today is my last dose of X -.017 and I am thankful not to require a compounding pharmacy from this point forward.

I feel significantly better off the X, Gardner. I have regained functionality and am able to keep up with raising my children, driving, cooking, extra curricular activities etc. I haven't gone back to work yet, but in time.

 

Gardner, I'm praying something turns for you soon. You've been in the trenches for a while. I fully understand the pain you describe and the worry you have for your children.

Good luck next week with your appointment and keep us updated.

 

Always thinking about you 

Marija

 

Marija,

 

I am so happy to hear you are doing better.  It is a good thing you realized the mistake.  This is one reason I would not trust a compounding pharmacy.  I certainly prefer mixing my own as I have more control.  If there is a mistake, then I am the only one to blame, and I can catch the mistake right away.  All that matters now is that you are able to function normally.  This is wonderful news!!

 

I wish you all the best.

 

Anne

 

 

[[an...]]

Gardener,

Thank you so much! That made my heart smile. That means a lot! Thanks for all your support and help! How are you? I hope you are feeling better and that your appt with the sleep psych went well. Lots of love to you!

 

Marija,

Thank you so much! You have been so encouraging and helpful! I am so sorry about he horrific fiasco with the pharmacy. I am glad you at least know now. That is so messed up! I hope being only on V will be better for! Also I am sure being given the correct dose will make things better. Big hugs!

 

XO Maya 

 

Hi Maya. Good to see that you seem to be doing well. I'm feeling OK, not awful not good. Still struggling with a lot of stuff. Trying to up my taper pace because slowing it to almost nothing is the only thing that reduces my symptoms and that's not really acceptable. So now trying to push through. We'll see how long I last! Knowing me, maybe a week. 

 

Hi Gardner,

 

This might be a good time to cross all the way to Librium?  I agree with Marija that you should listen to your body. If your daughter is going to be with you for six weeks it might be worth a try. I assume that if you substituted more Librium for the X you would know right away if things will get better or worse symptom wise because of the short half life of the X.  Anyway, you are always in my thoughts. I am glad to hear things went okay with the sleep psychologist.

 

Anne

[[ga...]]

Gardener,

Thank you so much! That made my heart smile. That means a lot! Thanks for all your support and help! How are you? I hope you are feeling better and that your appt with the sleep psych went well. Lots of love to you!

 

Marija,

Thank you so much! You have been so encouraging and helpful! I am so sorry about he horrific fiasco with the pharmacy. I am glad you at least know now. That is so messed up! I hope being only on V will be better for! Also I am sure being given the correct dose will make things better. Big hugs!

 

XO Maya 

 

Hi Maya. Good to see that you seem to be doing well. I'm feeling OK, not awful not good. Still struggling with a lot of stuff. Trying to up my taper pace because slowing it to almost nothing is the only thing that reduces my symptoms and that's not really acceptable. So now trying to push through. We'll see how long I last! Knowing me, maybe a week. 

 

Hi Gardner,

 

This might be a good time to cross all the way to Librium?  I agree with Marija that you should listen to your body. If your daughter is going to be with you for six weeks it might be worth a try. I assume that if you substituted more Librium for the X you would know right away if things will get better or worse symptom wise because of the short half life of the X.  Anyway, you are always in my thoughts. I am glad to hear things went okay with the sleep psychologist.

 

Anne

 

Hi Anne. Thank you for your words of wisdom. I'm always happy to hear from you. You are an inspiration with how well you are managing your taper. I'll bet you are coming to the end of your semester very soon. My kids are. Less than two weeks left!

 

I'm really leary of adding more L because of how each addition depresses me. I've been in some really dark places lately. I try to remember that it is temporary, but the neuropathy sort of uses up all of my brain power many days.

 

I want to use the 6 weeks to push my Xanax taper faster. This week I'm up to 7%/month, which is still ridiculously slow. Going to try 10%/month next week. Then the next week my daughter can come, and I may try faster or I may cross more. I see my psychiatrist on Monday to get his input. I need his cooperation.

 

I know some people use gabapentin to help them off benzos but then some of them have a really wretched time getting off of the gabapentin. Well, I'm on it now, so too late to turn back. I figure it's best to get off the benzos first and deal with the gabapentin later. It does treat RLS and nerve pain and benzo w/d, so maybe it's for the best for now to just stay on it. Maybe I'll even be able to pick up the pace of my taper. I sure hope so. That 6%/month thing was ridiculous. I would take 3 years to get off a med I took as prescribed for 6 months. Crazy!

 

(edited)

 

Well, that was off-topic, so I will now ask micro-taper questions! All opinions happily accepted.

 

  Am I correct that the benzo MT is the first priority and then I can MT the other drugs later?

 

  If I'm going to try pushing my taper rate, it's best to do that with the X rather than the L, right? From what I understand, X mistakes can be quickly detected and corrected but L mistakes you just have to live with because you feel them much later. Too much later to fix them.

 

  Last, but not least, I am considering doing the shake in water and pitch out what I don't want method when I get to the L. I would just have one of my kids write on the card how much to pitch each day, do it, and then divide the remainder into 3 doses. If the L doses are a bit uneven from each other it won't hurt the way the X does, right?  My son may actually be able to set up the day for me before he goes to school. He doesn't leave as early in the morning next semester as he does now. I think.

 

Well, better go look at my craft supplies and try to get inspired and get going on my Christmas cards! Wishing everyone many window-ful days!

 

Gard

[Guest [Ma...]]

Hi Gardner,

Thought I would swing by here and say "thanks". Looks like we are both into squash these days!!

My daughter painted fun faces on all my squash making it harder to turn them into soup!

 

How have you been?

 

I'm recovering from a dreadful, pharmacy fiasco where my X capsules were displaced by an entire decimal place plummeting my .448 mg to .048 mg total per day.

An essential c/t.

No one would believe my pain level until capsules were verified.

To add to the confusion, the bottle was labeled correctly but the capsules were all incorrect.

I will be off all the X this weekend. No point going back up to .448.

What's done is done.

Now onto tapering my 7 mg V.

 

Hugs,

Marija.

 

 

Maya - congratulations!!!  Happy for you 💗

 

What a disaster with your X! You are very brave to keep moving forward to be off the X. I hope you are starting to feel better from that mix up. I'm very curious to hear how this big drop effects you and how you recover from it. I sure hope the V covers most of the bad stuff OK for you. I often think I should just speed up my taper of the X and get it over with. I struggle so much with poor daily functioning, worry about my kids, neuropathy, depression. And yet I'm tapering less than 7%/month. It makes no sense. There must be something else in play here.

 

The appointment with the sleep psychologist went OK. She just gathered a lot of info. I have another appointment next week to learn more. The long drive (not me driving) on the highway was very hard. I'm not looking forward to going again and again. Highway speeds make me ill since the benzos. I think I need to do some guided mediation and put this out of my mind for awhile, right.

 

Hope you do OK with your abrupt med change. Keep us posted!

 

Gard

 

Gardener,

The error took place late September when I was on 4 mg of V, was not crossing yet, no V was added to blunt the blow, and I was reassured that it was only a 2.5% drop. If my level of pain was a result of a 2.5% drop, I thought I was sunk, that I would never get off this - the pain level was barbaric and inhumane.

The good news, adding in 3 mg V helped tremendously. It took away all the interdose withdrawal, the morning cortisol blasts, the persisting parasthesia, calmed my right facial trigeminal neuralgia, and allows me to sleep through the night.

The one negative; increased head aches but am unsure if this is still the rapid removal of X or adding the V. But in balance, functioning much better on the V.

Today is my last dose of X -.017 and I am thankful not to require a compounding pharmacy from this point forward.

I feel significantly better off the X, Gardner. I have regained functionality and am able to keep up with raising my children, driving, cooking, extra curricular activities etc. I haven't gone back to work yet, but in time.

 

Gardner, I'm praying something turns for you soon. You've been in the trenches for a while. I fully understand the pain you describe and the worry you have for your children.

Good luck next week with your appointment and keep us updated.

 

Always thinking about you 

Marija

 

Marija,

 

I am so happy to hear you are doing better.  It is a good thing you realized the mistake.  This is one reason I would not trust a compounding pharmacy.  I certainly prefer mixing my own as I have more control.  If there is a mistake, then I am the only one to blame, and I can catch the mistake right away.  All that matters now is that you are able to function normally.  This is wonderful news!!

 

I wish you all the best.

 

Anne

 

Anne, thank you!

I felt so confident that I had found a solid compounder to work with.

But, human error is a reality and, like you said, better in your own hands than elsewhere.

 

That chapter, thankfully, is closed, I'm feeling improved, and I will move forward with a Valium taper plan beginning at 7 mg.

 

I've been reading your progress log and happy that you are feeling well and moving along smoothly! 

 

Enjoy your weekend,

Marija

[[...]]

Well, that was off-topic, so I will now ask micro-taper questions! All opinions happily accepted.

 

  Am I correct that the benzo MT is the first priority and then I can MT the other drugs later?

 

  If I'm going to try pushing my taper rate, it's best to do that with the X rather than the L, right? From what I understand, X mistakes can be quickly detected and corrected but L mistakes you just have to live with because you feel them much later. Too much later to fix them.

 

  Last, but not least, I am considering doing the shake in water and pitch out what I don't want method when I get to the L. I would just have one of my kids write on the card how much to pitch each day, do it, and then divide the remainder into 3 doses. If the L doses are a bit uneven from each other it won't hurt the way the X does, right?  My son may actually be able to set up the day for me before he goes to school. He doesn't leave as early in the morning next semester as he does now. I think.

 

Well, better go look at my craft supplies and try to get inspired and get going on my Christmas cards! Wishing everyone many window-ful days!

 

Gard

 

1.  I think the main thing is to taper one drug at a time, although it is probably okay to taper one for awhile, stop that, then switch to another for awhile.  The total matters even though it is not the same receptor systems involved.

 

2.  Yes, X will give you feedback quicker than L, but I think L mistakes can be fixed.  I don't think the lag times are so long that you can't fix them.  I don't think "pushing" the taper is good idea.  Symptoms are a sign your CNS is struggling.

 

3.  With the liquid L we still have the question - is it water soluble or not.  We have conflicting evidence saying both, but I think the question is moot as if you were to do the alcohol/water method you would be covered as long as you used a lot of water (at least 100ml per 5mg capsule).

[[ga...]]

Well, that was off-topic, so I will now ask micro-taper questions! All opinions happily accepted.

 

  Am I correct that the benzo MT is the first priority and then I can MT the other drugs later?

 

  If I'm going to try pushing my taper rate, it's best to do that with the X rather than the L, right? From what I understand, X mistakes can be quickly detected and corrected but L mistakes you just have to live with because you feel them much later. Too much later to fix them.

 

  Last, but not least, I am considering doing the shake in water and pitch out what I don't want method when I get to the L. I would just have one of my kids write on the card how much to pitch each day, do it, and then divide the remainder into 3 doses. If the L doses are a bit uneven from each other it won't hurt the way the X does, right?  My son may actually be able to set up the day for me before he goes to school. He doesn't leave as early in the morning next semester as he does now. I think.

 

Well, better go look at my craft supplies and try to get inspired and get going on my Christmas cards! Wishing everyone many window-ful days!

 

Gard

 

1.  I think the main thing is to taper one drug at a time, although it is probably okay to taper one for awhile, stop that, then switch to another for awhile.  The total matters even though it is not the same receptor systems involved.

 

2.  Yes, X will give you feedback quicker than L, but I think L mistakes can be fixed.  I don't think the lag times are so long that you can't fix them.  I don't think "pushing" the taper is good idea.  Symptoms are a sign your CNS is struggling.

 

3.  With the liquid L we still have the question - is it water soluble or not.  We have conflicting evidence saying both, but I think the question is moot as if you were to do the alcohol/water method you would be covered as long as you used a lot of water (at least 100ml per 5mg capsule).

 

Thanks SG.

 

1. I'm picking the benzos to taper first since they are doing no good at all, only harm, and using them as a sleeping pill was a big mistake, only making my sleep problems worse and giving me the worst brain-mess I've ever experienced. I really, really hate them.

 

2. Couldn't symptoms such as high anxiety, loss of appetite, increased nerve pain also be a sign that I am just under too much stress, taper or no taper?

 

Skip-able side note in case you want to know what I mean by too much stress: In the last 10 years I spent 5 watching my 20-year marriage collapse while trying to do everything to hold it together, not realizing my then-husband was already looking for my replacement…surgeries.…loss of home…(most details removed)

 

So, that's why I wonder, is it really all just the benzos?? Might I be moving along faster if I hadn't had my life collapse under me and then get some pretty awful therapy that did little good and lots of damage. Does it matter if my CNS is being stressed by just benzos or other stressors, too? And isn't it bad to keep putting this poison in my mouth year after year? All things I wonder about but don't necessarily want to post out there in the wild, wild west. I don't read on most threads for a reason!

 

3. So are you saying I should use both alcohol and lots of water? I was considering using Anne's method of just shaking like crazy. But then Anne doesn't seem to be was sensitive as I am.

 

Gard

 

P.S. No way am I giving up. These bleepin' benzos are not going to take the last bit of my life from me. Say I, souding brave because my pain levels are low today. 

[[...]]

2. Couldn't symptoms such as high anxiety, loss of appetite, increased nerve pain also be a sign that I am just under too much stress, taper or no taper?

 

So, that's why I wonder, is it really all just the benzos?? Might I be moving along faster if I hadn't had my life collapse under me and then get some pretty awful therapy that did little good and lots of damage. Does it matter if my CNS is being stressed by just benzos or other stressors, too? And isn't it bad to keep putting this poison in my mouth year after year? All things I wonder about but don't necessarily want to post out there in the wild, wild west. I don't read on most threads for a reason!

 

Yeah, I think it all rolls into CNS stress.  Whatever the cause, you are where you are and you can only taper as fast as you can taper.  Pushing faster lowers quality of life and IMO saves no time.  In fact, my belief is it adds time onto the end after the taper is done.  When I say it adds time I mean extra "bonus" time beyond the time "saved" by pushing to zero.

 

3. So are you saying I should use both alcohol and lots of water? I was considering using Anne's method of just shaking like crazy. But then Anne doesn't seem to be was sensitive as I am.

 

You can use Anne's method and maybe get tips from her on how to ensure it works.  And, for all we know L might be soluble enough in water to actually dissolve, which would be terrific if it were true.

 

The Jouyban data says solubility in water is only .11mg/ml which, if true, means you need a bare minimum of 46ml water (which I doubled and rounded up to 100ml) to dissolve 5mg L and probably need the alcohol (or PG) to get it there.  I think Builder or Anne (can't remember which) found other data saying water dissolves 2mg/ml L.  So we have ambiguity and I think it is best to make decisions based on the lower Jouyban value.  I also trust the Jouyban data as I read the paper which included detail on the experimental method used.  It seemed solid to me.

 

Then there was the mystery of chlordiazepoxide vs. chlordiazepoxide HCl which are apparently two different substances with very different solubilities in water.  L HCl solubility is very high.  We never got to the bottom of that one.

[[ga...]]

2. Couldn't symptoms such as high anxiety, loss of appetite, increased nerve pain also be a sign that I am just under too much stress, taper or no taper?

 

Yeah, I think it all rolls into CNS stress.  Whatever the cause, you are where you are and you can only taper as fast as you can taper.  Pushing faster lowers quality of life and IMO saves no time.  In fact, my belief is it adds time onto the end after the taper is done.  When I say it adds time I mean extra "bonus" time beyond the time "saved" by pushing to zero.

 

That's what happened to you, isn't it? You pushed through and ended up with a lot of stuff post w/d stuff? If so, I'm sorry about that.  (Am I allowed to hug SG?? What will his wife say??    Ah well, I'll blame it on the benzos! )

 

I have recently added a system of guided meditations for pain relief that I do twice a day that is supposed to actually turn down the CNS response to pain and anxiety. Does that count in my favor the way stress counts against me? It's all CNS, right?

 

I also started going to a sleep psychologist. So far just intake, but I know she uses sleep restriction, Aaaaaagh! I think there's other stuff to address anxiety in the program, too. She's almost 2 hours from me, but said some people drive as far as 4 hours to see here, so 2 isn't bad and it's a wide-open freeway through pretty countryside. (I live in the middle of nowhere. Well, not exactly, but seems like it to me after decades outside of large cities with many resources.)

 

As for the L, we will never know, will we? I sure picked a dandy drug, but with V not being an option and X killing me even holding still, L was all that was left. BTW, did you crossover? I can't remember, sorry.

 

Gard

 

[[...]]

2. Couldn't symptoms such as high anxiety, loss of appetite, increased nerve pain also be a sign that I am just under too much stress, taper or no taper?

 

Yeah, I think it all rolls into CNS stress.  Whatever the cause, you are where you are and you can only taper as fast as you can taper.  Pushing faster lowers quality of life and IMO saves no time.  In fact, my belief is it adds time onto the end after the taper is done.  When I say it adds time I mean extra "bonus" time beyond the time "saved" by pushing to zero.

 

That's what happened to you, isn't it? You pushed through and ended up with a lot of stuff post w/d stuff? If so, I'm sorry about that.  (Am I allowed to hug SG?? What will his wife say??    Ah well, I'll blame it on the benzos! )

 

I have recently added a system of guided meditations for pain relief that I do twice a day that is supposed to actually turn down the CNS response to pain and anxiety. Does that count in my favor the way stress counts against me? It's all CNS, right?

 

I also started going to a sleep psychologist. So far just intake, but I know she uses sleep restriction, Aaaaaagh! I think there's other stuff to address anxiety in the program, too. She's almost 2 hours from me, but said some people drive as far as 4 hours to see here, so 2 isn't bad and it's a wide-open freeway through pretty countryside. (I live in the middle of nowhere. Well, not exactly, but seems like it to me after decades outside of large cities with many resources.)

 

As for the L, we will never know, will we? I sure picked a dandy drug, but with V not being an option and X killing me even holding still, L was all that was left. BTW, did you crossover? I can't remember, sorry.

 

Gard

 

Yes, I pushed at the end and apparently did some damage as I am 34 months free and still struggling.  There is no way this is simple GABA upregulation still waiting to happen.  Something else happened and I am pretty sure it was caused by being "too short" of benzo from pushing.

 

I crossed from K to V at about 27mg V, but if I had it to do again I'd stay on K.  I was not aware at the time of how to liquify K and the forum I was on was behind the times.

 

I don't think L is a bad drug to taper at all.  You'll do fine with it.

[[ga...]]

2. Couldn't symptoms such as high anxiety, loss of appetite, increased nerve pain also be a sign that I am just under too much stress, taper or no taper?

 

Yeah, I think it all rolls into CNS stress.  Whatever the cause, you are where you are and you can only taper as fast as you can taper.  Pushing faster lowers quality of life and IMO saves no time.  In fact, my belief is it adds time onto the end after the taper is done.  When I say it adds time I mean extra "bonus" time beyond the time "saved" by pushing to zero.

 

That's what happened to you, isn't it? You pushed through and ended up with a lot of stuff post w/d stuff? If so, I'm sorry about that.  (Am I allowed to hug SG?? What will his wife say??    Ah well, I'll blame it on the benzos! )

 

I have recently added a system of guided meditations for pain relief that I do twice a day that is supposed to actually turn down the CNS response to pain and anxiety. Does that count in my favor the way stress counts against me? It's all CNS, right?

 

I also started going to a sleep psychologist. So far just intake, but I know she uses sleep restriction, Aaaaaagh! I think there's other stuff to address anxiety in the program, too. She's almost 2 hours from me, but said some people drive as far as 4 hours to see here, so 2 isn't bad and it's a wide-open freeway through pretty countryside. (I live in the middle of nowhere. Well, not exactly, but seems like it to me after decades outside of large cities with many resources.)

 

As for the L, we will never know, will we? I sure picked a dandy drug, but with V not being an option and X killing me even holding still, L was all that was left. BTW, did you crossover? I can't remember, sorry.

 

Gard

 

Yes, I pushed at the end and apparently did some damage as I am 34 months free and still struggling.  There is no way this is simple GABA upregulation still waiting to happen.  Something else happened and I am pretty sure it was caused by being "too short" of benzo from pushing.

 

I crossed from K to V at about 27mg V, but if I had it to do again I'd stay on K.  I was not aware at the time of how to liquify K and the forum I was on was behind the times.

 

I don't think L is a bad drug to taper at all.  You'll do fine with it.

 

Ah, I see. I thought you did a long taper but also thought you said you pushed and did damage. I have some permanent CNS damage from taking a med years ago, something I unknowingly couldn't metabolize properly so it built up and within 3 days caused myoclonus that lasted over 6 months. I have residual effects even 10 years later. Not horrible, but I have to watch out with stimulants and stress bringing it back. Still, it does seem to be less and less as the years go by even though it will probably never go away.

 

I recommend a program I am using for anyone experiencing suffering. It's called You Are Not Your Pain (book with CD on amazon). The book explains the science behind how the brain experiences pain and suffering and why certain forms of meditation turn down the volume on those areas of the nervous system. Having the voice to focus on to guide me helps me sit and actually do it. It's very gentle and encouraging, even to people like me who find it hard to slow down our brains. I just started it a few weeks ago and already find it helpful.

 

So the V cross was not a good one for you? Or it just caused trouble at the end? When you look at how complicated it is to metabolize, I'm not surprised that some people have trouble with it.

 

My main problem with L is I find it depressing. On the over hand, that beats jumping out of my skin tapering X! Still hoping to get the X considerably lower before I cross more. We shall see. Going to keep the holidays very low key this year, do my meditating, let my kids do the cooking and cleaning and shopping, and focus on going for walks, doing my meditating, getting enough sleep, etc. to see if it allows me to taper faster. Don't worry, I'm way too chicken for any sudden changes. After what happened in May, no chance! I just bump up a tiny bit each week if I am able (depends on the neuropathy, mostly). I'd really like to get to a normal 10% per month. Then I could be off the X in the spring! Or so I think. Haven't had anyone check my math lately!

 

Gard

[[...]]

Ah, I see. I thought you did a long taper but also thought you said you pushed and did damage. I have some permanent CNS damage from taking a med years ago, something I unknowingly couldn't metabolize properly so it built up and within 3 days caused myoclonus that lasted over 6 months. I have residual effects even 10 years later. Not horrible, but I have to watch out with stimulants and stress bringing it back. Still, it does seem to be less and less as the years go by even though it will probably never go away.

 

I recommend a program I am using for anyone experiencing suffering. It's called You Are Not Your Pain (book with CD on amazon). The book explains the science behind how the brain experiences pain and suffering and why certain forms of meditation turn down the volume on those areas of the nervous system. Having the voice to focus on to guide me helps me sit and actually do it. It's very gentle and encouraging, even to people like me who find it hard to slow down our brains. I just started it a few weeks ago and already find it helpful.

 

So the V cross was not a good one for you? Or it just caused trouble at the end? When you look at how complicated it is to metabolize, I'm not surprised that some people have trouble with it.

 

My main problem with L is I find it depressing. On the over hand, that beats jumping out of my skin tapering X! Still hoping to get the X considerably lower before I cross more. We shall see. Going to keep the holidays very low key this year, do my meditating, let my kids do the cooking and cleaning and shopping, and focus on going for walks, doing my meditating, getting enough sleep, etc. to see if it allows me to taper faster. Don't worry, I'm way too chicken for any sudden changes. After what happened in May, no chance! I just bump up a tiny bit each week if I am able (depends on the neuropathy, mostly). I'd really like to get to a normal 10% per month. Then I could be off the X in the spring! Or so I think. Haven't had anyone check my math lately!

 

Gard

 

I did do a long taper.  That is what is so frustrating.  I tapered 30 months yet it was too fast.  Here I am 64 months into it and still dealing with significant symptoms.  Whatever happened it's very very stubborn and hard to get rid of.  All avoidable to, if I had tapered properly.  But, what are you going to do.  If I throw enough time at it it will eventually go away.

 

My V cross was okay and V was okay to taper.  But is was not necessary.  The other forum only knew to cross people from K to V.  They advised all K people to cross to V not knowing it was fine to remain on it and taper directly.  It seemed like a good forum, but turned out to be about the worst choice out there.