Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

I am not sure if this is the best place to post this, but I would love to get feedback from other "microtaper-ers" of clonazepam, since I am not taking the meds myself,--my daughter is and she does not like to attribute anything she is feeling to the medicine in any way, shape or form! 

 

I am wondering if I do a micro-micro taper, reducing just 1/5ml (.2ml) out of the 100ml of the milk/medicine mixture each day, will she still experience symptoms of withdrawal? I restarted her clonazepam taper, starting with her original dose of .5mg, 10 days ago. Her medicine mixture will be down tonight by 2ml or 2% in 10 days. She had some anger issues this afternoon, but she was very, very tired from not getting enough sleep the last few days (mainly due to having to stay up to finish homework.) I am not sure if I should hold the taper for a few days?  Opinions, thoughts? Anyone else do a taper this slow, or am I not going slow enough?

 

Thanks.

 

.5mg K into 100ml liquid is a .005mg/ml strength so .2ml a day is .001mg K a day and it would be 6% in the first month.  This is quite careful.  Exceedingly, actually.  But in the end symptoms always trump all else.

[[...]]

 

Gardner,

I am so sorry you are suffering so greatly. Like Anne mentioned, I hope tomorrow's appointment goes well providing you with some much needed consistency in advice and a direction towards healing.

The neuropathy is horrendous - my least favorite synonym and most persistent

 

I'm continuing to cross my X to V. I just wasn't making anymore progress MT the X so will need to risk a cross and hope my liver ywill be "okay".

I'm at .35 X and 6.5 mg of V now. I'm hoping to exchange another .0896 X for 1 mg of V next week. It's not without symptoms but manageable, so far. I'm hoping to be fully crossed by the end of the year.

This has been a long, arduous taper.

 

Hugs,

Marija 💗

 

Marija, I'm so sorry you have the neuropathy, too. It really is the worst thing to try to endure. Kills your sleep. Makes your days eternal. Makes the anxiety much worse. With this neuropathy, I think I have reached the end of my X rope, too. I hate to admit it, but it may be what I need to go forward. Then I will have to start dissolving my L. Been trying to avoid that. I'm so spoiled being on liquid X. 

 

I'm planning to just be in denial about liver damage. No doctor has even mentioned testing for it now that I am part on L. Maybe because I've never had liver issues before. I don't count the wacky liver enzymes I inherited (none of one enzyme and way too much of another). They never make liver tests turn up anything weird so my liver seems to be happy with them the way they are. At least so far!

 

I hope we both see improvement with our crossovers. I do think the X taper is the hardest so, with the crossovers, I have hope for both of us!

 

Gard

 

 

Gardener,

    I hope you are doing better    Rose

[[la...]]

 

 

 

 

If you are going to dose V twice a day in the end why not make it simple and just begin dosing V 2x from the start?

 

A needs to be dosed 4x, so I would keep doing this until it is gone, never eliminating an A dose.

 

I'd use a scale and do this...

 

  6am              noon            6pm            10pm

.3125A          .3125A          .3125A          .3125A

 

Then swap a small percentage every day or two: remove a little bit from every dose and create 6am and 6pm V doses and add a little bit to both of those.  Do this every day or two, holding if needed.  Go by how you feel.  So in a week it might look something like this...

 

  6am              noon              6pm              10pm

.2125A/2V      .2125A        .2125A/2V        .2125A

 

And in two weeks it might look like this...

 

  6am              noon              6pm              10pm

.1125A/4V      .1125A        .1125A/4V        .1125A

 

You keep swapping a little at a time, going by how you feel, and at the end you will be here...

 

6am          6pm

6.25V        6.25V

 

ok now I am following you...sorry I have drain Bamage!!!!

 

sorry to be such a pain.

 

I would rather not use scale at this point...want to c/o as easy as can be without weighing.

 

also I had dosed 6:00am and 10:00pm when I went to 2xs a day  guess 6:00 and 6:00 makes more sense except I need it for sleep

 

so lets say I go with ashtons equivalency...I will just change  my dosing times with the middle doses of A and cut from them slowly

 

MY GOSH WHY DOESTHIS HAVE TO  BE SO HARD???

 

when I c/o to from kpin to V it was Pearts and it was this easy:

6:00am                            2:00pm                        10:00pm

.25k                                .25k                                .25k

.25k                                .25k                                .125k/2.5V  (hold 3 days after every change)

.25k                                .25k                                5V 

.125k/2.5V                      .25K                                5V 

5v                                    .25k                                5V

5v                                    .125k/2.5V                      5V

5V                                      5V                                5V

 

trying so hard to mimic this without going quite as fast

[[Da...]]

I am not sure if this is the best place to post this, but I would love to get feedback from other "microtaper-ers" of clonazepam, since I am not taking the meds myself,--my daughter is and she does not like to attribute anything she is feeling to the medicine in any way, shape or form! 

 

I am wondering if I do a micro-micro taper, reducing just 1/5ml (.2ml) out of the 100ml of the milk/medicine mixture each day, will she still experience symptoms of withdrawal? I restarted her clonazepam taper, starting with her original dose of .5mg, 10 days ago. Her medicine mixture will be down tonight by 2ml or 2% in 10 days. She had some anger issues this afternoon, but she was very, very tired from not getting enough sleep the last few days (mainly due to having to stay up to finish homework.) I am not sure if I should hold the taper for a few days?  Opinions, thoughts? Anyone else do a taper this slow, or am I not going slow enough?

 

Thanks.

 

.5mg K into 100ml liquid is a .005mg/ml strength so .2ml a day is .001mg K a day and it would be 6% in the first month.  This is quite careful.  Exceedingly, actually.  But in the end symptoms always trump all else.

 

 

Thanks,SG57. Do you know if anyone has tapered this slowly, and did that eliminate most of the withdrawal symptoms or not?  Is it impossible to micro-taper slowly enough to NOT have any symptoms? (Or only very minor ones?) Just wondering. Part of the reason I chose the 1/5ml (rather than 1/4 or 1/3 of a ml) is that how my syringe was divided--each ml was divided into 1/5ths!

 

Thanks again, SG57. I always appreciate your helpful answers to my questions !

 

[[...]]

ok now I am following you...sorry I have drain Bamage!!!!

 

sorry to be such a pain.

 

I would rather not use scale at this point...want to c/o as easy as can be without weighing.

 

also I had dosed 6:00am and 10:00pm when I went to 2xs a day  guess 6:00 and 6:00 makes more sense except I need it for sleep

 

so lets say I go with ashtons equivalency...I will just change  my dosing times with the middle doses of A and cut from them slowly

 

MY GOSH WHY DOESTHIS HAVE TO  BE SO HARD???

 

when I c/o to from kpin to V it was Pearts and it was this easy:

6:00am                            2:00pm                        10:00pm

.25k                                .25k                                .25k

.25k                                .25k                                .125k/2.5V  (hold 3 days after every change)

.25k                                .25k                                5V 

.125k/2.5V                      .25K                                5V 

5v                                    .25k                                5V

5v                                    .125k/2.5V                      5V

5V                                      5V                                5V

 

trying so hard to mimic this without going quite as fast

 

If you don't use a scale I guess it could be done.  Kind of crude and I don't like not taking advantage of the scale, but if you have .5mg A pills and 2mg V pills and you split them into quarters you could do this...

 

  6am          noon              6pm          10pm

.25A          .375A            .25A          .375A

.25A          .375A            .125A        .25/2.5V

.125A        .25A/2.5V      .125A        .25A/2.5V

.125A        .25A/2.5V                        .125A/5V

                .125A/5V                        .125A/5V

                    6V                                  6.5V

 

This is fudged a bit so that quarter pills can be used.  Each exchange is 20% (.25mg A/2.5mg V), which is a bit big, but if you want to keep it simple and split pills this is what I would do.  20% is the smallest percentage that works for a combination of .5mg A pills and 2mg V pills without a scale.

[[...]]

.5mg K into 100ml liquid is a .005mg/ml strength so .2ml a day is .001mg K a day and it would be 6% in the first month.  This is quite careful.  Exceedingly, actually.  But in the end symptoms always trump all else.

 

 

Thanks,SG57. Do you know if anyone has tapered this slowly, and did that eliminate most of the withdrawal symptoms or not?  Is it impossible to micro-taper slowly enough to NOT have any symptoms? (Or only very minor ones?) Just wondering. Part of the reason I chose the 1/5ml (rather than 1/4 or 1/3 of a ml) is that how my syringe was divided--each ml was divided into 1/5ths!

 

Thanks again, SG57. I always appreciate your helpful answers to my questions !

 

Absolute lack of symptoms is almost certainly not going to happen.  There are just too many fluctuations going on, but I actually think a very slow taper like you are doing is the best way to go as far as CNS health is concerned.  And it should make her life quite normal.  I am surprised I don't see this more often.  These tapers are so long people usually want to push the edge and get it done.  That's what gets them into trouble - I know it did in my case.

 

To give you an idea, many people can handle 15-20% a month and 10% a month is considered "careful."  Right now you are at 6%.

[[...]]

I am not sure if this is the best place to post this, but I would love to get feedback from other "microtaper-ers" of clonazepam, since I am not taking the meds myself,--my daughter is and she does not like to attribute anything she is feeling to the medicine in any way, shape or form! 

 

I am wondering if I do a micro-micro taper, reducing just 1/5ml (.2ml) out of the 100ml of the milk/medicine mixture each day, will she still experience symptoms of withdrawal? I restarted her clonazepam taper, starting with her original dose of .5mg, 10 days ago. Her medicine mixture will be down tonight by 2ml or 2% in 10 days. She had some anger issues this afternoon, but she was very, very tired from not getting enough sleep the last few days (mainly due to having to stay up to finish homework.) I am not sure if I should hold the taper for a few days?  Opinions, thoughts? Anyone else do a taper this slow, or am I not going slow enough?

 

Thanks.

 

.5mg K into 100ml liquid is a .005mg/ml strength so .2ml a day is .001mg K a day and it would be 6% in the first month.  This is quite careful.  Exceedingly, actually.  But in the end symptoms always trump all else.

 

 

Thanks,SG57. Do you know if anyone has tapered this slowly, and did that eliminate most of the withdrawal symptoms or not?  Is it impossible to micro-taper slowly enough to NOT have any symptoms? (Or only very minor ones?) Just wondering. Part of the reason I chose the 1/5ml (rather than 1/4 or 1/3 of a ml) is that how my syringe was divided--each ml was divided into 1/5ths!

 

Thanks again, SG57. I always appreciate your helpful answers to my questions !

 

Hi Daughters

I tapered the last couple of milligrams of Valium very slowly as you can see from my sig line. Although my  symptoms faded away the last several months and I arrived at 0 pretty close to healed, I did have some symptoms for most of my taper. By tapering this slowly, however, the symptoms were quite manageable without any real impact on my lifestyle. We all seem to heal at different rates. IMO, tapering at whatever rate gives your daughter a few manageable symptoms is a reasonable way to do it. With a little trial and error you will be able to find the optimal rate for her. The rate will probably have to be slowed the lower she gets. I would say, just follow her symptoms and adjust the dose as needed.

take care

Bart

[[ga...]]

Hello to all and thank you for all the well wishes.

 

My trip to the big teaching hospital was long, tiring, stressful (traffic jams and got a bit lost) and discouraging. Teaching hospital it surely was. The majority of my time I spent with a "fellow" (a specialist-in-training) being practiced on. I felt the fellow was not a good listener, but rather a newbie with an agenda of questions he wanted to get through, whether they applied to me or not. He said I had secondary insomnia (no kidding!) and it was depression-related (so he's suddenly a psychiatrist; really he was not listening) and I needed to talk to my (real who isn't clueless) psychiatrist about getting on some kind of anti-depressant. See, a total newbie with a very limited bag of tricks who wasn't listening. He then went to report to the specialist.

 

The actual specialist was in the room for so short time he didn't even sit down. But at least he had the sense to say I was on enough drugs already and more weren't the answer. He didn't have an answer. He said he knew of a sleep psychologist in the area that he referred people to. He gave me her brochure and a referral. The brochure wasn't very encouraging. It didn't seem to apply to me. I looked at a map when I got home. She was even further away than the sleep doctor and in a terrible area to try to get to because of a total rebuild of the highway in that area. But I called her anyway, since I was plumb out of options.

 

She was very nice and told me there was another sleep psychologist closer to me in a big hospital in my insurance group. That was happy news! The closer one also does trauma therapy. That was also happy news! She was with the same group as my original sleep doctor. Why the bleep didn't he know about her? I was never impressed with that guy.

 

I called and left a message with her. She called between patients, sounded very nice, told me my situation was not hopeless, told me getting off benzos without support was really rough, and agreed to see me on December 3rd. This is a much nicer drive down a pretty wide-open freeway through the country. I used to do it all the time when I was caring for my ailing parents (back in my other life). It's a big hospital but in a smallish city that I think is pretty, not the monster nightmare hospital in the big, ugly city.

 

Now I have to figure out how I'm going to get there. An hour and a half….I'm thinking about driving, but that actually seems rather foolish. Even if I felt good in the morning, I could get there and be too tired to drive home.  

 

I'm back to trying to rotate my sleep meds to get some sleep. Since my nerve pain is lower, maybe it will work. Also back to trying a teeny tiny micro taper tomorrow. (As in, 2%/month. How could that do anything bad, right?) My daughter, who hijacked my car when hers died, will be coming again tomorrow, so even if I don't sleep tonight, she can make sure I eat tomorrow! Working hard not to lose weight again. When people say they wish they had my problem I'm like . No you don't! It is very hard to shovel healthy, unappetizing food into your stomach when it already feels like it has a rock in it.

 

Hope everyone is doing OK today. My advice for the USA people: an easy Thanksgiving is a good Thanksgiving! There were a few years when I was ill that we just voted on the one most important thing to eat for Thanksgiving. Pie always won, so that's all the Thanksgiving food we had and everybody was happy. (And I bought them rather than baked them.) And then for breakfast the next day, we had pie again. Leftover pie for breakfast the day after is a Thanksgiving tradition we try to never miss. Just have to make sure you have more pie than can possibly be consumed on Thursday. Actually, pie is not on my allowed foods list, but it's gluten-free so I'll have a sliver, and I do enjoy watching my kids eating happily.

 

Since many will be hitting the road soon, I want to wish you all safe travels and a very Peaceful Thanksgiving. (Or at a least tolerable one. We take what we can get!)

 

Gard 

[[de...]]

SG

 

havent been around much just to much going on and the stress that i went through last summer has totally wiped me here at the holidays with this being the first one without my mom and my son...not sure how to do it but i need some math help please..

I got the .5 mg tabs and want to start them on sat..they are .172 average weight with me being at .5 .85 .85 .84 on friday night...so not sure what my weight would be but i know that i have to be below 2mgs to even start them but would like to stay at the cut rate i am doing c/c/h at .001gms..so i would think i would have to cut .002 off of these at the same rate. But i dont know what weight i would start at to begin with.

 

Thanks in advance and hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving

 

deep

[[...]]

SG

 

havent been around much just to much going on and the stress that i went through last summer has totally wiped me here at the holidays with this being the first one without my mom and my son...not sure how to do it but i need some math help please..

I got the .5 mg tabs and want to start them on sat..they are .172 average weight with me being at .5 .85 .85 .84 on friday night...so not sure what my weight would be but i know that i have to be below 2mgs to even start them but would like to stay at the cut rate i am doing c/c/h at .001gms..so i would think i would have to cut .002 off of these at the same rate. But i dont know what weight i would start at to begin with.

 

Thanks in advance and hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving

 

deep

 

Hi Deep.  Your total daily weight is .339g (.085+.085+.085+.084) which is 1.994mg with your 1mg/.170g pills.  Congratulations, you have crossed below 2mg!  To get this dose with your .5mg/.172g pills you need to be at .686g, which is four pills each weighing .171g.

 

Your .5mg pills are almost exactly half as strong as the 1mg pills since they weigh nearly the same.  To make the same cut this means you need to cut twice as much weight as with the old 1mg pills.  So if your old pattern with 1mg pills made two cuts in three days, the new .5mg pills would need four cuts in three days.  The way to do this is to cut .002g followed by two days of .001g cuts, in other words c2/c/c.  Just rotate the cut through the doses as you have always done.

[[de...]]

SG  thank you so much..but alot of them weighed like .174 and .173 but then there were some that weighed .164..i even had one that weighed .181..should i worry about this cause i didnt use the .181 to get my average nor the .164 ones but they are in the bottle and with the new weights i will be using every one of the pills for now with none left over like i had with the 1mgs..

 

as always thanks for all your mathy help

 

deep

[[...]]

SG  thank you so much..but alot of them weighed like .174 and .173 but then there were some that weighed .164..i even had one that weighed .181..should i worry about this cause i didnt use the .181 to get my average nor the .164 ones but they are in the bottle and with the new weights i will be using every one of the pills for now with none left over like i had with the 1mgs..

 

as always thanks for all your mathy help

 

deep

 

You found an average of .172g so I think that is the best you can do and it should be fine.  The assumption I make is that the pill powder always has the same K in it and that lighter pills have less K in them and heavier pills have more K in them.  As long as the weight is right you should get the right amount of K.  Your average weight should be a very good guide to getting the right dose even if the individual weights are all over the place.

[[ga...]]

SG

 

havent been around much just to much going on and the stress that i went through last summer has totally wiped me here at the holidays with this being the first one without my mom and my son...not sure how to do it but i need some math help please..

I got the .5 mg tabs and want to start them on sat..they are .172 average weight with me being at .5 .85 .85 .84 on friday night...so not sure what my weight would be but i know that i have to be below 2mgs to even start them but would like to stay at the cut rate i am doing c/c/h at .001gms..so i would think i would have to cut .002 off of these at the same rate. But i dont know what weight i would start at to begin with.

 

Thanks in advance and hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving

 

deep

 

:'(

 

Words escape me. Wishing you peace.

 

Gard

[[de...]]

gard  no words needed ..just the kindness of you noticing my post is enough..i posted on the kk thread a very happy thanksgiving to them..and noone even noticed..that you to be my family and i was there daily..but have really slacked posting there..and now i feel lost..thanks for making me feel like someone noticed i posted besides the person i needed to help me with the math..and have a wonderful Thanksgiving tomorrow..best wishes for you 

 

deep

[[an...]]

Hello to all and thank you for all the well wishes.

 

My trip to the big teaching hospital was long, tiring, stressful (traffic jams and got a bit lost) and discouraging. Teaching hospital it surely was. The majority of my time I spent with a "fellow" (a specialist-in-training) being practiced on. I felt the fellow was not a good listener, but rather a newbie with an agenda of questions he wanted to get through, whether they applied to me or not. He said I had secondary insomnia (no kidding!) and it was depression-related (so he's suddenly a psychiatrist; really he was not listening) and I needed to talk to my (real who isn't clueless) psychiatrist about getting on some kind of anti-depressant. See, a total newbie with a very limited bag of tricks who wasn't listening. He then went to report to the specialist.

 

The actual specialist was in the room for so short time he didn't even sit down. But at least he had the sense to say I was on enough drugs already and more weren't the answer. He didn't have an answer. He said he knew of a sleep psychologist in the area that he referred people to. He gave me her brochure and a referral. The brochure wasn't very encouraging. It didn't seem to apply to me. I looked at a map when I got home. She was even further away than the sleep doctor and in a terrible area to try to get to because of a total rebuild of the highway in that area. But I called her anyway, since I was plumb out of options.

 

She was very nice and told me there was another sleep psychologist closer to me in a big hospital in my insurance group. That was happy news! The closer one also does trauma therapy. That was also happy news! She was with the same group as my original sleep doctor. Why the bleep didn't he know about her? I was never impressed with that guy.

 

I called and left a message with her. She called between patients, sounded very nice, told me my situation was not hopeless, told me getting off benzos without support was really rough, and agreed to see me on December 3rd. This is a much nicer drive down a pretty wide-open freeway through the country. I used to do it all the time when I was caring for my ailing parents (back in my other life). It's a big hospital but in a smallish city that I think is pretty, not the monster nightmare hospital in the big, ugly city.

 

Now I have to figure out how I'm going to get there. An hour and a half….I'm thinking about driving, but that actually seems rather foolish. Even if I felt good in the morning, I could get there and be too tired to drive home.  

 

I'm back to trying to rotate my sleep meds to get some sleep. Since my nerve pain is lower, maybe it will work. Also back to trying a teeny tiny micro taper tomorrow. (As in, 2%/month. How could that do anything bad, right?) My daughter, who hijacked my car when her's died, will be coming again tomorrow, so even if I don't sleep tonight, she can make sure I eat tomorrow! Working hard not to lose weight again. When people say they wish they had my problem I'm like . No you don't! It is very hard to shovel healthy, unappetizing food into your stomach when it already feels like it has a rock in it.

 

Hope everyone is doing OK today. My advice for the USA people: an easy Thanksgiving is a good Thanksgiving! There were a few years when I was ill that we just voted on the one most important thing to eat for Thanksgiving. Pie always won, so that's all the Thanksgiving food we had and everybody was happy. (And I bought them rather than baked them.) And then for breakfast the next day, we had pie again. Leftover pie for breakfast the day after is a Thanksgiving tradition we try to never miss. Just have to make sure you have more pie than can possibly be consumed on Thursday. Actually, pie is not on my allowed foods list, but it's gluten-free so I'll have a sliver, and I do enjoy watching my kids eating happily.

 

Since many will be hitting the road soon, I want to wish you all safe travels and a very Peaceful Thanksgiving. (Or at a least tolerable one. We take what we can get!)

 

Gard 

 

Hi Gardner,

 

It sounds like this new doctor might be able to help. I sure hope you are able to get a ride to see her.  Maybe you could pay someone to take you? 

 

Have a happy Thanksgiving,

 

I hope that you can get some sleep and feel better tomorrow.

Anne 

[[ga...]]

 

Hi Gardner,

 

It sounds like this new doctor might be able to help. I sure hope you are able to get a ride to see her.  Maybe you could pay someone to take you? 

 

Have a happy Thanksgiving,

 

I hope that you can get some sleep and feel better tomorrow.

Anne 

 

Thank you, Anne. I have been to so many doctors that I try not to get hopeful, but an actual psychologist could be the answer. We hardly have any of those around here at all. In fact, I was told these two I talked to are the only two in the state who specialize in sleep disorders. I feel pretty lucky that one if in a nice area only an hour and a half from me.

 

I know I can get a ride Thursday. I am going to pay my daughter to take off work. She is a poor college kid who hasn't a penny to her name because she spent the summer doing volunteer inner city work (in that dreadful city we drove to) instead of earning money. But it was a great experience for her; she came back a different person, in a good way.

 

We also have a free ride service for medical appointments if you're on Medicaid, which I am, because of my disabilities and lack of job now. I have never used the ride service because it has a reputation for showing up way to early or way too late (according to many articles in the newspaper about how it went downhill when it was privatized to save money). But I will try it once I get used to the routine of going to this new place and seeing this new person. I will need my daughter to help me navigate the hospital the first time.

 

Well, time to get up and try first my attempt at gluten-free dinner rolls. Could be interesting! Fortunately, everything else is already made and I only have my two kids here. That's enough for me.

 

I hope you are having a happy Thanksgiving surrounded by great food and great people!

 

Gard

[[an...]]

 

Hi Gardner,

 

It sounds like this new doctor might be able to help. I sure hope you are able to get a ride to see her.  Maybe you could pay someone to take you? 

 

Have a happy Thanksgiving,

 

I hope that you can get some sleep and feel better tomorrow.

Anne 

 

Thank you, Anne. I have been to so many doctors that I try not to get hopeful, but an actual psychologist could be the answer. We hardly have any of those around here at all. In fact, I was told these two I talked to are the only two in the state who specialize in sleep disorders. I feel pretty lucky that one if in a nice area only an hour and a half from me.

 

I know I can get a ride Thursday. I am going to pay my daughter to take off work. She is a poor college kid who hasn't a penny to her name because she spent the summer doing volunteer inner city work (in that dreadful city we drove to) instead of earning money. But it was a great experience for her; she came back a different person, in a good way.

 

We also have a free ride service for medical appointments if you're on Medicaid, which I am, because of my disabilities and lack of job now. I have never used the ride service because it has a reputation for showing up way to early or way too late (according to many articles in the newspaper about how it went downhill when it was privatized to save money). But I will try it once I get used to the routine of going to this new place and seeing this new person. I will need my daughter to help me navigate the hospital the first time.

 

Well, time to get up and try first my attempt at gluten-free dinner rolls. Could be interesting! Fortunately, everything else is already made and I only have my two kids here. That's enough for me.

 

I hope you are having a happy Thanksgiving surrounded by great food and great people!

 

Gard

 

Hi Gardner,

 

Well it is certainly worth a try. You never know, you might hit the jackpot this time. I am very happy that you will be getting a ride.  Like you, I do not think it would be a good idea for you to drive there on your own. You just  never know.

 

Good luck with the gluten free dinner rolls!!  My husband and I will have a traditional Thanksgiving dinner here.  Turkey is cooking!!  We will then to go my brother's house later this afternoon.  I would prefer to stay home, but my parents will be there. I like to spend as much time with them as I can.

 

I wish you and your family a very Happy Thanksgiving!!

 

((((HUGS)))))

Anne

[[Ma...]]

Thank you! That makes me feel better. It eases my fears. I am feeling much better then when I started my c/o.

 

I am definitely a fast V metabolizer. I am a rapid metabolizer of most meds and a couple I am just an extensive metabolizer of. Genetic testing verified what I already knew. I will do 4mg a day for the rest of the cross, if it goes well. After a week of that, I would only have 6mg left to cross. I am nervous about removing K doses completely. I can't cut them down really low on my scale especially with 1mg pills. I am sure it will be ok.

 

I know they are building up, but I am unsure how fast they will build up. From what I have read it takes about a month and I haven't even been crossing that long.

 

I will evaluate holding or tapering at the end of the C/O based on how I am feeling and your advice. My conservative was starting with a 3% cut and see how long it takes to feel it, adjust etc. i don't like the sound of 5% in a month. I would think (hope) I could taper V as least as fast as K. We will see. I am not going to worry about that now. I see my pdoc on Mon and I will get 5mg and 2mg pills. Not sure how many to ask for of each. I only have 10 mg V pills, so that will be helpful.

 

Thanks again for all your help! you have helped make this such an easy cross for me.

 

I think the metabolites are up very high already.  The reason I say this is you feel good.  The V (and its metabolites) must be up high because they have effectively replaced the K.  If they were not high you would feel awful.  It makes sense that, being a fast metabolizer, both the K and V reach equilibrium quickly - their half life in you in short so you have lower accumulated K and V levels and these levels are reached quicker.  I doubt it takes a month for them to build up in your case...more like a few days.

 

I had forgotten that you are able to cut a few percent every few days.  I agree 5% a month may be overly cautious.

 

The 5mg and 2mg pills will be a big help since you use the scale.  They will give you much more accuracy and control.

SG,

Thank you! That makes a lot of sense. With K, I was always able to cut 5-6% a week with very tolerable sxs that went away after a few days. Then when I did the cuts of 2.5-3% every 3 days, I didn't feel them at all. When I was on 8-4mgs of k I cut much faster and more with little to no sxs. I will see how I am feeling after the cross, but I probably will to do a 3.5% cut and see how I do. I think I will feel the cut the same day still, just not as quick. Does that make sense to do?

 

I crossed 4mg of V for .2mg of K on Wed and yesterday. It went very well. If anything I felt better. I plan to cross another 4mg tomorrow. I will only change two doses of V and take away from K from the same dose of doses after the cross, so I won't feel any sxs. This is what tomorrow's dosing will look like. The first K dose is cut in half in case I wake up early and then I take half and go back to sleep. This is happening a lot less and if it does it is usually now only a couple hours earlier.

D1 .2mg K and 16mg V

D2 .05mg K

D3 .05mg K and 15mg V

D5 .05mg K

D5 .05mg K

D6 .1mg K and 14mg V

That will have me at .5mg K and 45mg V. I will next add to the last and middle dose. I think I may have to dose V four times because there is still some interdose wd. It is A LOT better. Idont really know how to go about the cross with the K doses being so little. I am not sure at what dose amount and when I should cut the dose out completely and if there are certain doses I should cut out first. I was hoping you could offer some insight into that. I will get 5mg and 2mg pills on Mon. I am trying to figure out how many to ask for of each. My pdoc will be of no help. If I continue crossing 4mg every other day, I will be done by Dec 4th. Thank you again for all of your help! I hope you had a nice holiday!

 

XO Maya

[[Ma...]]

Gardener,

I am hopeful about the sleep psychologist. She sounds promising. I hope your appt goes well and that you are feeling better! I am so sorry things have been so tough for you lately!

 

Deep,

Myself and many others replied and wished you a happy thanksgiving etc. I am so sorry you felt like you weren't noticed. You very much were! You are always in my thoughts! I always notice when you post. I hope you had a good holiday. Know that everyone on KK cares about you very much!

 

XO Maya 

 

[[...]]

I think the metabolites are up very high already.  The reason I say this is you feel good.  The V (and its metabolites) must be up high because they have effectively replaced the K.  If they were not high you would feel awful.  It makes sense that, being a fast metabolizer, both the K and V reach equilibrium quickly - their half life in you in short so you have lower accumulated K and V levels and these levels are reached quicker.  I doubt it takes a month for them to build up in your case...more like a few days.

 

I had forgotten that you are able to cut a few percent every few days.  I agree 5% a month may be overly cautious.

 

The 5mg and 2mg pills will be a big help since you use the scale.  They will give you much more accuracy and control.

SG,

Thank you! That makes a lot of sense. With K, I was always able to cut 5-6% a week with very tolerable sxs that went away after a few days. Then when I did the cuts of 2.5-3% every 3 days, I didn't feel them at all. When I was on 8-4mgs of k I cut much faster and more with little to no sxs. I will see how I am feeling after the cross, but I probabky will to do a 3.5% cut and see how I do. I think I will feel the cut the same day still, just not as quick.

 

I crossed 4mg of V for .2mg of K on Wed and yesterday. It went very well. If anything I felt better. I plan to cross another 4mg tomorrow. I will only change two doses of V and take away from K from the same dose of doses after the cross, so I won't feel any sxs. This is what tomorrow's dosing will look like. The first K dose is cut in half in case I wake up early and then I take half and go back to sleep. This is happening a lot less and if it does it is usually now only a couple hours earlier.

D1 .2mg K and 16mg V

D2 .05mg K

D3 .05mg K and 15mg V

D5 .05mg K

D5 .05mg K

D6 .1mg K and 14mg V

That will have me at .5mg K and 45mg V. I will next add to the last and middle dose. I think I may have to dose V four times because there is still some interdose wd. It is A LOT better. Idont really know how to go about the cross with the K doses being so little. I am not sure at what dose amount and when I should cut the dose out completely and if there are certain doses I should cut out first. If I continue crossing 4mg every other day, I will be done by Dec 4th. Thank you again for all of your help! I hope you had a nice holiday!

 

XO Maya

 

Hi Maya,  K needs to be dosed 6x and V 3x.  Dose does not change that.  So I would remove K from each of the six doses for a total of .2mg for the day and swap in 4mg V adding to all three doses of V.  I'm really happy with your cross.

[[Ma...]]

Hi Maya,  K needs to be dosed 6x and V 3x.  Dose does not change that.  So I would remove K from each of the six doses for a total of .2mg for the day and swap in 4mg V adding to all three doses of V.  I'm really happy with your cross.

 

Hey SG,

I won't change how many times I am dosing. I am unsure if I will need to dose 3 or 4 times when there is no K, but will worry about that later. I will just try to get the K doses as low as possible. I hope I have enough pieces of .5mg pills, otherwise I am using only 1mg pills again. It's hard to cut so low on a scale. I think that when I am so low on my taper, I will use liquid. I am scared to remove from all doses of K and add to all doses of V. The last time couple times I did that, I had a little heart racing etc. Nothing bad and it doesn't last long. I just know my body prefers I add mostly to one V dose and is ok with me adding to another one that's next to it and then taking away from K only from doses after I have added V. I think I will go with the schedule for tomorrow that I posted. Then I may have to do things a little differently the next cross. Thank you so much! I am really happy with my cross! It is all thanks to you!

 

XO Maya

[[ga...]]

Good to see you, Maya!

 

I am thinking about continuing my crossover all the way to L, but haven't decided. I've been really messed up since taking so many meds to be able to sleep through the neuropathy flares. The neuropathy is lower now, but my brain is just a mess.

 

I'm at 10+10+10L and am MTing the X, but it will take months and months to get rid of it. I wonder if crossing all the way will help or not. Have you felt better as you crossed and got rid of more K? I tried to read your reports to SG, but my brain has something seriously wrong.

 

I look at the clock and think I should be getting enough sleep to function, but feel like I am going to die of lack of sleep. It makes no sense. Sorry for rambling around. Not concentrating well today.

 

Hope you had a good thanksgiving. I actually felt OK on thanksgiving, so that was nice.

 

Gard

[[Ma...]]

You too, Gardener! 

 

I would maybe wait until you have other meds figured out. I am sorry you are having a rough time. I hope the new dr can help. I, glad at least the neuropathy is lower. I don't know if crossing all the way will help. Are you having interdose wd? Also I know that you felt depressed after your last cross, but that was also a hard time. I think it did improve your sleep. I am foggy, too. It's hard for me to say what I think is best for you. When your other meds are fixed, you could try switching more and see if it helps. I have felt better the more I crossed. I also really needed the help with my interdose wd.

 

I'm so sorry you are having such bad sleep issues. I need sleep to function. It makes perfect sense. You are not rambling and your brain seems fine to me. You always come across as a smart and kind person. I really hope you get some sleep and things get easier!

 

I did have a good Thanksgiving! Thank you' I am glad that you felt ok and that you were able to eat.

 

Sending you so much love and hugs!  :smitten:

 

XO Maya

[[ta...]]

I am about to begin a slow taper off 2mg Atvan. I am currently  taking 2 doses...1mg night and 1 mg morning. I am experienincing some mild interdose w/d symptoms (nausea, anxiety, muscle cramps)...and plan to split my dose into 4 equal parts before I begin to taper.

 

I am not planning on crossing over to Valium.

 

I have a prescription for liquid Ativan from a compounding pharmacy, so I can cut as slowly as I want....and will be able to be accurate.

 

I plan to cut 2% a week, and then hold until my body seems ok.

 

[[an...]]

I am about to begin a slow taper off 2mg Atvan. I am currently  taking 2 doses...1mg night and 1 mg morning. I am experienincing some mild interdose w/d symptoms (nausea, anxiety, muscle cramps)...and plan to split my dose into 4 equal parts before I begin to taper.

 

I am not planning on crossing over to Valium.

 

I have a prescription for liquid Ativan from a compounding pharmacy, so I can cut as slowly as I want....and will be able to be accurate.

 

I plan to cut 2% a week, and then hold until my body seems ok.

 

Hi Tango,

I replied to your post in the tapering Ativan support group.

Anne