Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ga...]]

Dear Gardner,

Wanting to send you much love, support, and healing. You're in a tough spot, for now, it will lift.

You are strong, resilient, and resourceful. You will bounce back. Glad to hear your daughter is with you.

 

Marija💗

 

Thank you, Marija. How are you doing these days?

 

Gard

[[Sh...]]

Gard,

 

You are in my thoughts and prayers.  Hoping you get over this rough patch quickly. You will prevail. This a journey like no other.

 

Hugs,

Shaani

[[an...]]

Thank you, Anne. I am actually typing this myself.  I had been having so much nerve pain that I was sleeping almost nothing. My psych prescribed gabapentin and then my neurologist told me to stop it abruptly. So then, half-asleep, I accidentally took a quadruple dose of an old sedating med (trazodone) I had taken in the past. Per pharmacist, a high dose of trazodone could be stimulating and make you really sick. I was awake all night and all day jumping out of my skin and feeling like I was dying. And so exhausted I couldn't walk more than a few steps or do more than sip fluids. The pharmacist predicted I would feel better by Sunday, provided I got some sleep. So I went back to the gabapentin out of desperation last night and did sleep. Unfortunately, gabapentin starts to lose its sedating effect after a few days of consecutive use, so it's not a long-term fix. 

 

I'm doing the crossover that SG and my daughter planned out. Considering crossing all the way over to L. The X taper has just gotten too brutal. So far I feel OK on the upped L. It is definitely not a down-dose. It always feels like an up-dose when I sub in L. Makes me a bit slow and sad, but not horrible, not yet! 

 

My kids (college) are driving me to see a new specialist at a big teaching hospital a few hours away tomorrow. It took forever and begging by my primary to get in. He has multiple certifications, including sleep disorders and neurology. I am hoping that since he understands both neurology and sleep disorders, he can give me advice about my health problems (autoimmune neuropathy and a significant sleep disorder that I had even before the big Xanax disaster), how to medicate or not medicate them, how to work around my liver problems (genetic defect), and how to get enough sleep to function (clearly I'm not). And also not contradict himself! My current doctors (sleep, psych, neuro) often contradict each other and leave me wondering what to do.

 

Am holding my taper this week while I see how the L affects me and to try to get my feet back under me. I hate holding!    But it does seem wise right now. I need sleep and no more med screw ups.

 

Gard 

 

P.S. If I cross all the way to L, I all be re-opening the solubility of L debate! Or I might just shake like crazy and use the measure and pitch out method. I don't think my psychiatrist would have any problem with my wasting med. He's very easy going. I'm going to miss him when he leaves in April! If he leaves. He has pushed back his leave date 3 times. 

 

Hi Gardner, 

 

I am so sorry you were going through this. How awful!!  It is always something isn't it?  Never fails.  Things can be going so well, and then we get hit with something else. It is a good thing you were able to get some sleep as well as realize you took the wrong meds. Maybe crossing all the way over to L will be a good thing. It is a good sign that you are feeling ok with the extra L.

 

Good luck tomorrow. Please let me know how it goes. You have a lot going on, and it would be great if you could get one doctor that could advise you on all of the problems. The conflicting advice from three different docs would drive me up the wall. I am sure it is difficult to make a decision.

 

Yes, I think a hold is needed.  Please do not feel bad about holding--you have been through a lot and you need some time to recover. I have no problem with holding when I need to do it.

 

Oh no!! the L solubility debate!!  Well, I guess SG and I better read up on it again.  Frankly, I don't think it will be a problem.  It can probably be dissolved in a bit of vodka just like the valium. Even if you use only water, just shake, shake, and shake (I don't mean shakiness from withdrawal lol).  It will definitely work out.

 

Again, good luck tomorrow.  I hope that you the answers that you need.

 

Anne 

 

[Guest [Ma...]]

Thank you, Anne. I am actually typing this myself.  I had been having so much nerve pain that I was sleeping almost nothing. My psych prescribed gabapentin and then my neurologist told me to stop it abruptly. So then, half-asleep, I accidentally took a quadruple dose of an old sedating med (trazodone) I had taken in the past. Per pharmacist, a high dose of trazodone could be stimulating and make you really sick. I was awake all night and all day jumping out of my skin and feeling like I was dying. And so exhausted I couldn't walk more than a few steps or do more than sip fluids. The pharmacist predicted I would feel better by Sunday, provided I got some sleep. So I went back to the gabapentin out of desperation last night and did sleep. Unfortunately, gabapentin starts to lose its sedating effect after a few days of consecutive use, so it's not a long-term fix. 

 

I'm doing the crossover that SG and my daughter planned out. Considering crossing all the way over to L. The X taper has just gotten too brutal. So far I feel OK on the upped L. It is definitely not a down-dose. It always feels like an up-dose when I sub in L. Makes me a bit slow and sad, but not horrible, not yet! 

 

My kids (college) are driving me to see a new specialist at a big teaching hospital a few hours away tomorrow. It took forever and begging by my primary to get in. He has multiple certifications, including sleep disorders and neurology. I am hoping that since he understands both neurology and sleep disorders, he can give me advice about my health problems (autoimmune neuropathy and a significant sleep disorder that I had even before the big Xanax disaster), how to medicate or not medicate them, how to work around my liver problems (genetic defect), and how to get enough sleep to function (clearly I'm not). And also not contradict himself! My current doctors (sleep, psych, neuro) often contradict each other and leave me wondering what to do.

 

Am holding my taper this week while I see how the L affects me and to try to get my feet back under me. I hate holding!    But it does seem wise right now. I need sleep and no more med screw ups.

 

Gard 

 

P.S. If I cross all the way to L, I all be re-opening the solubility of L debate! Or I might just shake like crazy and use the measure and pitch out method. I don't think my psychiatrist would have any problem with my wasting med. He's very easy going. I'm going to miss him when he leaves in April! If he leaves. He has pushed back his leave date 3 times. 

 

Hi Gardner, 

 

I am so sorry you were going through this. How awful!!  It is always something isn't it?  Never fails.  Things can be going so well, and then we get hit with something else. It is a good thing you were able to get some sleep as well as realize you took the wrong meds. Maybe crossing all the way over to L will be a good thing. It is a good sign that you are feeling ok with the extra L.

 

Good luck tomorrow. Please let me know how it goes. You have a lot going on, and it would be great if you could get one doctor that could advise you on all of the problems. The conflicting advice from three different docs would drive me up the wall. I am sure it is difficult to make a decision.

 

Yes, I think a hold is needed.  Please do not feel bad about holding--you have been through a lot and you need some time to recover. I have no problem with holding when I need to do it.

 

Oh no!! the L solubility debate!!  Well, I guess SG and I better read up on it again.  Frankly, I don't think it will be a problem.  It can probably be dissolved in a bit of vodka just like the valium. Even if you use only water, just shake, shake, and shake (I don't mean shakiness from withdrawal lol).  It will definitely work out.

 

Again, good luck tomorrow.  I hope that you the answers that you need.

 

Anne 

 

Gardner,

I am so sorry you are suffering so greatly. Like Anne mentioned, I hope tomorrow's appointment goes well providing you with some much needed consistency in advice and a direction towards healing.

The neuropathy is horrendous - my least favorite synonym and most persistent

 

I'm continuing to cross my X to V. I just wasn't making anymore progress MT the X so will need to risk a cross and hope my liver ywill be "okay".

I'm at .35 X and 6.5 mg of V now. I'm hoping to exchange another .0896 X for 1 mg of V next week. It's not without symptoms but manageable, so far. I'm hoping to be fully crossed by the end of the year.

This has been a long, arduous taper.

 

Hugs,

Marija 💗

[[ga...]]

Gard,

 

You are in my thoughts and prayers.  Hoping you get over this rough patch quickly. You will prevail. This a journey like no other.

 

Hugs,

Shaani

 

Thank you Shaani! It really helps to hear encouraging words.

[[ga...]]

Thank you, Anne. I am actually typing this myself.  I had been having so much nerve pain that I was sleeping almost nothing. My psych prescribed gabapentin and then my neurologist told me to stop it abruptly. So then, half-asleep, I accidentally took a quadruple dose of an old sedating med (trazodone) I had taken in the past. Per pharmacist, a high dose of trazodone could be stimulating and make you really sick. I was awake all night and all day jumping out of my skin and feeling like I was dying. And so exhausted I couldn't walk more than a few steps or do more than sip fluids. The pharmacist predicted I would feel better by Sunday, provided I got some sleep. So I went back to the gabapentin out of desperation last night and did sleep. Unfortunately, gabapentin starts to lose its sedating effect after a few days of consecutive use, so it's not a long-term fix. 

 

I'm doing the crossover that SG and my daughter planned out. Considering crossing all the way over to L. The X taper has just gotten too brutal. So far I feel OK on the upped L. It is definitely not a down-dose. It always feels like an up-dose when I sub in L. Makes me a bit slow and sad, but not horrible, not yet! 

 

My kids (college) are driving me to see a new specialist at a big teaching hospital a few hours away tomorrow. It took forever and begging by my primary to get in. He has multiple certifications, including sleep disorders and neurology. I am hoping that since he understands both neurology and sleep disorders, he can give me advice about my health problems (autoimmune neuropathy and a significant sleep disorder that I had even before the big Xanax disaster), how to medicate or not medicate them, how to work around my liver problems (genetic defect), and how to get enough sleep to function (clearly I'm not). And also not contradict himself! My current doctors (sleep, psych, neuro) often contradict each other and leave me wondering what to do.

 

Am holding my taper this week while I see how the L affects me and to try to get my feet back under me. I hate holding!    But it does seem wise right now. I need sleep and no more med screw ups.

 

Gard 

 

P.S. If I cross all the way to L, I all be re-opening the solubility of L debate! Or I might just shake like crazy and use the measure and pitch out method. I don't think my psychiatrist would have any problem with my wasting med. He's very easy going. I'm going to miss him when he leaves in April! If he leaves. He has pushed back his leave date 3 times. 

 

Hi Gardner, 

 

I am so sorry you were going through this. How awful!!  It is always something isn't it?  Never fails.  Things can be going so well, and then we get hit with something else. It is a good thing you were able to get some sleep as well as realize you took the wrong meds. Maybe crossing all the way over to L will be a good thing. It is a good sign that you are feeling ok with the extra L.

 

Good luck tomorrow. Please let me know how it goes. You have a lot going on, and it would be great if you could get one doctor that could advise you on all of the problems. The conflicting advice from three different docs would drive me up the wall. I am sure it is difficult to make a decision.

 

Yes, I think a hold is needed.  Please do not feel bad about holding--you have been through a lot and you need some time to recover. I have no problem with holding when I need to do it.

 

Oh no!! the L solubility debate!!  Well, I guess SG and I better read up on it again.  Frankly, I don't think it will be a problem.  It can probably be dissolved in a bit of vodka just like the valium. Even if you use only water, just shake, shake, and shake (I don't mean shakiness from withdrawal lol).  It will definitely work out.

 

Again, good luck tomorrow.  I hope that you the answers that you need.

 

Anne 

 

Thanks, Anne, for your help and encouragement. I was glad to read that you had gotten through your rough patch and were able to keep going.

 

I will try to remember to post about what this new specialist says. I wonder if he will tell me to pause my taper until we get some of this other stuff under control. Or if he'll say I'm an addict and need to go to detox. I get that a lot. Medical people don't seem to get that you can have a nasty, slow w/d and not be an addict. I often feel like I have a scarlet A on my chest for alprazolam addict. Sometimes I think the cross to L might be worth it just to get rid of the alprazolam part. Other benzos seem to be less stigmatizing. I didn't know X was an abused street drug, and I would be judged for being on it. I was so naive.

 

I have a sheet I printed out from a benzo survivor who posted on the success board. It's titled Things I Know for Sure and gives advice about tapering. Thing #17 says, "Just when you think it can't get worse, it will." So why I am always surprised and freak out when it happens?? 

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

 

Gardner,

I am so sorry you are suffering so greatly. Like Anne mentioned, I hope tomorrow's appointment goes well providing you with some much needed consistency in advice and a direction towards healing.

The neuropathy is horrendous - my least favorite synonym and most persistent

 

I'm continuing to cross my X to V. I just wasn't making anymore progress MT the X so will need to risk a cross and hope my liver ywill be "okay".

I'm at .35 X and 6.5 mg of V now. I'm hoping to exchange another .0896 X for 1 mg of V next week. It's not without symptoms but manageable, so far. I'm hoping to be fully crossed by the end of the year.

This has been a long, arduous taper.

 

Hugs,

Marija 💗

 

Marija, I'm so sorry you have the neuropathy, too. It really is the worst thing to try to endure. Kills your sleep. Makes your days eternal. Makes the anxiety much worse. With this neuropathy, I think I have reached the end of my X rope, too. I hate to admit it, but it may be what I need to go forward. Then I will have to start dissolving my L. Been trying to avoid that. I'm so spoiled being on liquid X. 

 

I'm planning to just be in denial about liver damage. No doctor has even mentioned testing for it now that I am part on L. Maybe because I've never had liver issues before. I don't count the wacky liver enzymes I inherited (none of one enzyme and way too much of another). They never make liver tests turn up anything weird so my liver seems to be happy with them the way they are. At least so far!

 

I hope we both see improvement with our crossovers. I do think the X taper is the hardest so, with the crossovers, I have hope for both of us!

 

Gard

[[an...]]

Thank you, Anne. I am actually typing this myself.  I had been having so much nerve pain that I was sleeping almost nothing. My psych prescribed gabapentin and then my neurologist told me to stop it abruptly. So then, half-asleep, I accidentally took a quadruple dose of an old sedating med (trazodone) I had taken in the past. Per pharmacist, a high dose of trazodone could be stimulating and make you really sick. I was awake all night and all day jumping out of my skin and feeling like I was dying. And so exhausted I couldn't walk more than a few steps or do more than sip fluids. The pharmacist predicted I would feel better by Sunday, provided I got some sleep. So I went back to the gabapentin out of desperation last night and did sleep. Unfortunately, gabapentin starts to lose its sedating effect after a few days of consecutive use, so it's not a long-term fix. 

 

I'm doing the crossover that SG and my daughter planned out. Considering crossing all the way over to L. The X taper has just gotten too brutal. So far I feel OK on the upped L. It is definitely not a down-dose. It always feels like an up-dose when I sub in L. Makes me a bit slow and sad, but not horrible, not yet! 

 

My kids (college) are driving me to see a new specialist at a big teaching hospital a few hours away tomorrow. It took forever and begging by my primary to get in. He has multiple certifications, including sleep disorders and neurology. I am hoping that since he understands both neurology and sleep disorders, he can give me advice about my health problems (autoimmune neuropathy and a significant sleep disorder that I had even before the big Xanax disaster), how to medicate or not medicate them, how to work around my liver problems (genetic defect), and how to get enough sleep to function (clearly I'm not). And also not contradict himself! My current doctors (sleep, psych, neuro) often contradict each other and leave me wondering what to do.

 

Am holding my taper this week while I see how the L affects me and to try to get my feet back under me. I hate holding!    But it does seem wise right now. I need sleep and no more med screw ups.

 

Gard 

 

P.S. If I cross all the way to L, I all be re-opening the solubility of L debate! Or I might just shake like crazy and use the measure and pitch out method. I don't think my psychiatrist would have any problem with my wasting med. He's very easy going. I'm going to miss him when he leaves in April! If he leaves. He has pushed back his leave date 3 times. 

 

Hi Gardner, 

 

I am so sorry you were going through this. How awful!!  It is always something isn't it?  Never fails.  Things can be going so well, and then we get hit with something else. It is a good thing you were able to get some sleep as well as realize you took the wrong meds. Maybe crossing all the way over to L will be a good thing. It is a good sign that you are feeling ok with the extra L.

 

Good luck tomorrow. Please let me know how it goes. You have a lot going on, and it would be great if you could get one doctor that could advise you on all of the problems. The conflicting advice from three different docs would drive me up the wall. I am sure it is difficult to make a decision.

 

Yes, I think a hold is needed.  Please do not feel bad about holding--you have been through a lot and you need some time to recover. I have no problem with holding when I need to do it.

 

Oh no!! the L solubility debate!!  Well, I guess SG and I better read up on it again.  Frankly, I don't think it will be a problem.  It can probably be dissolved in a bit of vodka just like the valium. Even if you use only water, just shake, shake, and shake (I don't mean shakiness from withdrawal lol).  It will definitely work out.

 

Again, good luck tomorrow.  I hope that you the answers that you need.

 

Anne 

 

Thanks, Anne, for your help and encouragement. I was glad to read that you had gotten through your rough patch and were able to keep going.

 

I will try to remember to post about what this new specialist says. I wonder if he will tell me to pause my taper until we get some of this other stuff under control. Or if he'll say I'm an addict and need to go to detox. I get that a lot. Medical people don't seem to get that you can have a nasty, slow w/d and not be an addict. I often feel like I have a scarlet A on my chest for alprazolam addict. Sometimes I think the cross to L might be worth it just to get rid of the alprazolam part. Other benzos seem to be less stigmatizing. I didn't know X was an abused street drug, and I would be judged for being on it. I was so naive.

 

I have a sheet I printed out from a benzo survivor who posted on the success board. It's titled Things I Know for Sure and gives advice about tapering. Thing #17 says, "Just when you think it can't get worse, it will." So why I am always surprised and freak out when it happens?? 

 

Gard

 

Gardner,

 

You just never know with these drugs.  I am in a good place right now, but I also know that can change at any time.  I do not take it for granted.

 

As for the specialist telling you to hold the taper, who knows?  I went to a hypertension specialist at a major hospital, and he told me that there was no way the Ativan was causing my symptoms and to just stop it.  It was too small a dose to be therapeutic.  He was so wrong. It depends on whether or not the doctor is benzo wise. Most are not. Even my current doctor does not understand the tapering process. I had no idea that X was an abused street drug.  I find it shocking that these doctors do not understand the effects of these drugs especially with so many suffering severe withdrawals.

 

Just remember, you are going for a second opinion today.  In no way are you obligated to follow the advice given.  Go with your gut and things will work out.  Do not worry about dissolving the L.  It will work out.  I have taken my insoluble Ativan for years now in just plain old water.  I did switch to the vodka method, and I notice no difference.

 

You will be in my thoughts today.  I am wishing you the best.

Anne 

[[ga...]]

 

 

 

Gardner,

 

You just never know with these drugs.  I am in a good place right now, but I also know that can change at any time.  I do not take it for granted.

 

As for the specialist telling you to hold the taper, who knows?  I went to a hypertension specialist at a major hospital, and he told me that there was no way the Ativan was causing my symptoms and to just stop it.  It was too small a dose to be therapeutic.  He was so wrong. It depends on whether or not the doctor is benzo wise. Most are not. Even my current doctor does not understand the tapering process. I had no idea that X was an abused street drug.  I find it shocking that these doctors do not understand the effects of these drugs especially with so many suffering severe withdrawals.

 

Just remember, you are going for a second opinion today.  In no way are you obligated to follow the advice given.  Go with your gut and things will work out.  Do not worry about dissolving the L.  It will work out.  I have taken my insoluble Ativan for years now in just plain old water.  I did switch to the vodka method, and I notice no difference.

 

You will be in my thoughts today.  I am wishing you the best.

Anne 

 

Thanks for these words of wisdom, Anne. Crazy that your doctor told you to just stop the Ativan! Wouldn't you at least think that if they know this is not their area of expertise, they would know enough to keep their mouths shut?! Do doctors learn to be ego-maniacs in med school?? Perhaps a bop on the head would bring them back down where they belong.   

 

Thank heavens I slept reasonable well and my B.S. detector will be working today. Well, we'll see how I am after 3 hours in the car at highway speeds! With my kids driving! My brain hates highway speeds these days. I used to make this drive myself frequently to care for my parents just a few of years ago, and it's the same hospital where I sat by my father's bed all day and all night while he was dying. Now driving across town exhausts me. I don't recognize myself. Luckily, I have two kids in town to rescue me when I need it! Unluckily, they are trying to have their own busy lives. Imagine that!

 

Here's a link to the post I mentioned earlier. Tons of wisdom in here:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=143083.0

 

We will get through this! 

 

Gard

[[an...]]

 

 

 

Gardner,

 

You just never know with these drugs.  I am in a good place right now, but I also know that can change at any time.  I do not take it for granted.

 

As for the specialist telling you to hold the taper, who knows?  I went to a hypertension specialist at a major hospital, and he told me that there was no way the Ativan was causing my symptoms and to just stop it.  It was too small a dose to be therapeutic.  He was so wrong. It depends on whether or not the doctor is benzo wise. Most are not. Even my current doctor does not understand the tapering process. I had no idea that X was an abused street drug.  I find it shocking that these doctors do not understand the effects of these drugs especially with so many suffering severe withdrawals.

 

Just remember, you are going for a second opinion today.  In no way are you obligated to follow the advice given.  Go with your gut and things will work out.  Do not worry about dissolving the L.  It will work out.  I have taken my insoluble Ativan for years now in just plain old water.  I did switch to the vodka method, and I notice no difference.

 

You will be in my thoughts today.  I am wishing you the best.

Anne 

 

Thanks for these words of wisdom, Anne. Crazy that your doctor told you to just stop the Ativan! Wouldn't you at least think that if they know this is not their area of expertise, they would know enough to keep their mouths shut?! Do doctors learn to be ego-maniacs in med school?? Perhaps a bop on the head would bring them back down where they belong.   

 

Thank heavens I slept reasonable well and my B.S. detector will be working today. Well, we'll see how I am after 3 hours in the car at highway speeds! With my kids driving! My brain hates highway speeds these days. I used to make this drive myself frequently to care for my parents just a few of years ago, and it's the same hospital where I sat by my father's bed all day and all night while he was dying. Now driving across town exhausts me. I don't recognize myself. Luckily, I have two kids in town to rescue me when I need it! Unluckily, they are trying to have their own busy lives. Imagine that!

 

Here's a link to the post I mentioned earlier. Tons of wisdom in here:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=143083.0

 

We will get through this! 

 

Gard

Actually, they are little ego maniacs before they get accepted into med school.  Students constantly ask me to write recommendation letters for their admittance into med school.  There are quite a few that do not belong there.

 

Good luck on the highway.  Like you I had no problems driving on the highway a couple of years ago.  Now, I will not venture on one, even if my husband is driving.  Much too stressful!! 

 

I am glad you have your kids to help you.  Believe me, they are glad to do it.  I wish my parents would accept our help more often.  I would be happy to do whatever they need. 

 

I hope to hear some good news from you soon.  Keep that BS detector running!!

Anne

[[la...]]

SG,  here is my plan I will hold each of these for one week. 5 days into first c/o in evening

 

6:00                      11:00                        4:00                            10:00

 

.25A                        .25A                          .25A                              .5A  = 1.25mg A

 

.25A                        .25A                          .25A                              .25A/ 1.5V 

.125A/ .5V              .25A                          .25A                              .25A/1.5V

 

                                                      combine 11:00 & 4:00

.125A/.5V                                              .25A/ 1.5V                      .25A/1.5V

.125A/.5V                                              .25A/ 1.5V                          2.5V

2.5V                                                      .25A/ 1.5V                          2.5V

2.5V                                                          2.5V                                2.5V  = 7.5mg V

 

 

so any thoughts? suggestions?  revisions?  opinions?

 

[[...]]

SG,  here is my plan I will hold each of these for one week. 5 days into first c/o in evening

 

6:00                      11:00                        4:00                            10:00

 

.25A                        .25A                          .25A                              .5A  = 1.25mg A

 

.25A                        .25A                          .25A                              .25A/ 1.5V 

.125A/ .5V              .25A                          .25A                              .25A/1.5V

 

                                                      combine 11:00 & 4:00

.125A/.5V                                              .25A/ 1.5V                      .25A/1.5V

.125A/.5V                                              .25A/ 1.5V                          2.5V

2.5V                                                      .25A/ 1.5V                          2.5V

2.5V                                                          2.5V                                2.5V  = 7.5mg V

 

 

so any thoughts? suggestions?  revisions?  opinions?

 

1.  What A to V equivalent are you using?  I use 1 to 10 so I look at this and see a 5mgV cut.

2.  A needs to be dosed 4x, so I would not combine doses.

3.  I'd move A doses to 6am, noon, 6pm, 10pm and create V doses at 6am and 6pm.

4.  If you have a scale you can use it to increase/decrease all doses at once.

[[jr...]]

I think SG is right. 1.25 mg. A = 12.5 mg V. Has anyone suffered abdominal cramps while tapering? I know we have some of the same receptors in our gut as we do in our brain.

[[la...]]

so what do I do with the mid day doses? once I have c/o the am and pm doses to all V

 

when do I drop these doses?

 

I was going by the global conversion table and others that are smaller then Ashtons. I can always increase as I need to

 

My problem is that once I start c/o I do not know what to do with mid day doses

 

when I c/o b4 from clonazepam I was dosing 3xs a day and so I simply c/o to V 3xs a day

[[...]]

so what do I do with the mid day doses? once I have c/o the am and pm doses to all V

 

when do I drop these doses?

 

I was going by the global conversion table and others that are smaller then Ashtons. I can always increase as I need to

 

My problem is that once I start c/o I do not know what to do with mid day doses

 

when I c/o b4 from clonazepam I was dosing 3xs a day and so I simply c/o to V 3xs a day

 

Think of it as if the other drug is not even there.  The A needs its number of doses and V needs its own number.  Keep them separate.  You could do V 3x, but it likely only needs two.  I like to see each drug dosed on the schedule it needs.

 

Be careful with the conversion.  Who knows which one is right for you, but you are using the lesser one and 5mgV is a lot, as you know.

[[Ma...]]

SG,

I have crossed over half my dose to V. I am taking 1.10mg K and 33mg V. I am easily switching 3mg every other day. I have had no issues, unless I take away from K from doses that are before the doses I am adding V to. I stopped doing that and also started only adding to two doses of a V each cross. I literally have had no issues. I am feeling better. I don't know how much of that is the Valium. It is definitely helping with interdose wd. I do still get it. I had to move my 2nd dose of V to my 3rd dose of K instead of my 4th dose to help with interdose wd. It probably should be dosed inbetween, but that is too confusing. Also my K pills are so small, especially when cutting from a 1mg pill. I found a decent amount of pieces of 5mg pills that I will use when the doses are just way too small. I wish my pdoc would prescribe them, but he can't know I am currently on K and V. I am cautiously optimistic about a complete C/O. It's what I really want to do. If I continue at 3mg every other day that will be in less than 3 weeks. I am thinking since 3mg is going so well that I will try crossing 4mg tomorrow, instead of 3mg, every other day and if that's ok even 5mg. Do you think that is too fast? I just am having issues with the K pills being so small. I am also cutting 13 pills a day. Not messing up my cross is of course what's most important. Also should I just continue to cut from all 6 doses of K. Right now this is how I am dosing: (I dose K every 3 hours besides at night)

D1 .4mg K (split into 2 in case I wake up early and take half, which is happening a lot less) 10mg V

D2 .15mg K

D3 .1mg K and 11mg V

D4 .15mg

D5 .1mg K

D6 .2mg K and 12mg V

Yout help has been invaluable to me. Thank you so much!

 

XO Maya

[[Ma...]]

Mosart,

Yes, you will definitely completely recover! My Dr said I was literally the worst case she had ever seen. Yes, the pain and fatigue are bad. It will not last that long. You don't have a bad case and are already showing a lot of improvement. I think holding until you see your dr is the smart thing to do. I really hope you feel a lot better soon!

 

Gard,

So sorry you have been having a rough time! I hope your Drs appt goes well and that crossing more L helps. Sending you lots of love!

 

Marija,

I am glad you are able to continue with your c/o. I hope things are getting easier for you! You are always in my thoughts! 💗

 

Jeff,

I haven't heard from you in awhile. I hope you see this. I really hope things are getting better for you! You are in my thoughts! 

 

XO Maya

 

 

 

[[la...]]

Ok I understand what you are saying EXCEPT I am not doing a partial c/o...I want to be on all diazepam

 

that's what I am confused about...certainly do not want to dose V 4xs a day

 

I will dose 3xs a day once on all V and then cut it to 2xs a day but still have no idea what to do with the 4th dose of A

[[...]]

SG,

I have crossed over half my dose to V. I am taking 1.10mg K and 33mg V. I am easily switching 3mg every other day. I have had no issues, unless I take away from K from doses that are before the doses I am adding V to. I stopped doing that and also started only adding to two doses of a V each cross. I literally have had no issues. I am feeling better. I don't know how much of that is the Valium. It is definitely helping with interdose wd. I do still get it. I had to move my 2nd dose of V to my 3rd dose of K instead of my 4th dose to help with interdose wd. It probably should be dosed inbetween, but that is too confusing. Also my K pills are so small, especially when cutting from a 1mg pill. I found a decent amount of pieces of 5mg pills that I will use when the doses are just way too small. I wish my pdoc would prescribe them, but he can't know I am currently on K and V. I am cautiously optimistic about a complete C/O. It's what I really want to do. If I continue at 3mg every other day that will be in less than 3 weeks. I am thinking since 3mg is going so well that I will try crossing 4mg tomorrow, instead of 3mg, every other day and if that's ok even 5mg. Do you think that is too fast? I just am having issues with the K pills being so small. I am also cutting 13 pills a day. Not messing up my cross is of course what's most important. Also should I just continue to cut from all 6 doses of K. Right now this is how I am dosing: (I dose K every 3 hours besides at night)

D1 .4mg K (split into 2 in case I wake up early and take half, which is happening a lot less) 10mg V

D2 .15mg K

D3 .1mg K and 11mg V

D4 .15mg

D5 .1mg K

D6 .2mg K and 12mg V

Yout help has been invaluable to me. Thank you so much!

 

XO Maya

 

You're really getting there.  It seems you have no problem with 1.5mg/day (3mg every other day).  You could try 2mg/day (4mg every other day), but be sure to test it for a while.  The longer half life of V gives it a longer lag time so the effect of a shortage might not be noticed for days.  This is something you have not been used to with K.  The feedback may not be immediate anymore, depending on how quickly you metabolize it.

 

On the six doses of K, yes keep cutting from all of them while adding to all the V doses.

[[...]]

Ok I understand what you are saying EXCEPT I am not doing a partial c/o...I want to be on all diazepam

 

that's what I am confused about...certainly do not want to dose V 4xs a day

 

I will dose 3xs a day once on all V and then cut it to 2xs a day but still have no idea what to do with the 4th dose of A

 

If you are going to dose V twice a day in the end why not make it simple and just begin dosing V 2x from the start?

 

A needs to be dosed 4x, so I would keep doing this until it is gone, never eliminating an A dose.

 

I'd use a scale and do this...

 

  6am              noon            6pm            10pm

.3125A          .3125A          .3125A          .3125A

 

Then swap a small percentage every day or two: remove a little bit from every dose and create 6am and 6pm V doses and add a little bit to both of those.  Do this every day or two, holding if needed.  Go by how you feel.  So in a week it might look something like this...

 

  6am              noon              6pm              10pm

.2125A/2V      .2125A        .2125A/2V        .2125A

 

And in two weeks it might look like this...

 

  6am              noon              6pm              10pm

.1125A/4V      .1125A        .1125A/4V        .1125A

 

You keep swapping a little at a time, going by how you feel, and at the end you will be here...

 

6am          6pm

6.25V        6.25V

[[Ma...]]

Thank you! I will try 4mg every oth day. I am not sure what you mean by test it out for awhile. Like a week? If I cross 4mg every other day, I will be fully crossed by Dec 5th. The lag time of V could affect my cross? I know that I metabolize V faster than most. My genetics say so because it is metabolized by liver enzymes 3A4 same as K which I metabolize rapidly) and 2C219 which genetic testing shows I am a rapid metabolizer of. It clearly has a longer half life than K, but I feel the dose leave my body the same day. I am not sure if that will change when the active metabolites build up. I started crossing on 10/30 and I think they need a month to build up? I forgot am I supposed to hold for two weeks after the cross before tapering? Hopefully, I will do the complete C/O and it will go smoothly. Then when I start tapering again, I plan to make a smaller cut and see how long it takes my body to notice, adjust etc. and go from there. Not noticing it right away would be a change from K and something I would have to adjust for.

 

I will continue cutting all 6 doses of K. I can only cut them so small. I am nervous about when I have to completely remove a dose. Also I think I may need to dose V 4x, unless the active metabolites make a big difference. I am hoping it all works out well. It has been a big help with my interdose wd, but I am still getting it. Also my k doses are so small that it is so quickly metabolized. Sorry for the all the questions. This is still confusing to me as I am so used to K.

[[...]]

Thank you! I will try 4mg every oth day. I am not sure what you mean by test it out for awhile. Like a week? If I cross 4mg every other day, I will be fully crossed by Dec 5th. The lag time of V could affect my cross? I know that I metabolize V faster than most. My genetics say so because it is metabolized by liver enzymes 3A4 same as K which I metabolize rapidly) and 2C219 which genetic testing shows I am a rapid metabolizer of. It clearly has a longer half life than K, but I feel the dose leave my body the same day. I am not sure if that will change when the active metabolites build up. I started crossing on 10/30 and I think they need a month to build up? I forgot am I supposed to hold for two weeks after the cross before tapering? Hopefully, I will do the complete C/O and it will go smoothly. Then when I start tapering again, I plan to make a smaller cut and see how long it takes my body to notice, adjust etc. and go from there. Not noticing it right away would be a change from K and something I would have to adjust for.

 

I will continue cutting all 6 doses of K. I can only cut them so small. I am nervous about when I have to completely remove a dose. Also I think I may need to dose V 4x, unless the active metabolites make a big difference. I am hoping it all works out well. It has been a big help with my interdose wd, but I am still getting it. Also my k doses are so small that it is so quickly metabolized. Sorry for the all the questions. This is still confusing to me as I am so used to K.

 

I'm not at all worried about you crossing all the way to V.  I see nothing stopping that.  You're already 60% there and feeling good.

 

It sounds like you are also a fast V metabolizer, so your lag will be short and you will get quicker feedback on if the cross rate is too fast.  Still, I would evaluate the 4mg/2 day swap rate for a week at least.

 

The active metabolites are part of the V "package" so they are already building up.  It has been happening all along.

 

As for holding at the end, if you feel good and ready to taper it is probably okay to begin right away, but it might be a good idea to hold for a bit to allow the V to finish building up fully.  Or what you might do is begin cutting right away, but in a very conservative way....maybe 5% for the first month or something like that.  This is all kind of a judgement that, even though you feel good, we suspect the V is not fully up to its equilibrium level yet.

[[Ma...]]

I'm not at all worried about you crossing all the way to V.  I see nothing stopping that.  You're already 60% there and feeling good.

 

It sounds like you are also a fast V metabolizer, so your lag will be short and you will get quicker feedback on if the cross rate is too fast.  Still, I would evaluate the 4mg/2 day swap rate for a week at least.

 

The active metabolites are part of the V "package" so they are already building up.  It has been happening all along.

 

As for holding at the end, if you feel good and ready to taper it is probably okay to begin right away, but it might be a good idea to hold for a bit to allow the V to finish building up fully.  Or what you might do is begin cutting right away, but in a very conservative way....maybe 5% for the first month or something like that.  This is all kind of a judgement that, even though you feel good, we suspect the V is not fully up to its equilibrium level yet.

Thank you! That makes me feel better. It eases my fears. I am feeling much better then when I started my c/o.

 

I am definitely a fast V metabolizer. I am a rapid metabolizer of most meds and a couple I am just an extensive metabolizer of. Genetic testing verified what I already knew. I will do 4mg a day for the rest of the cross, if it goes well. After a week of that, I would only have 6mg left to cross. I am nervous about removing K doses completely. I can't cut them down really low on my scale especially with 1mg pills. I am sure it will be ok.

 

I know they are building up, but I am unsure how fast they will build up. From what I have read it takes about a month and I haven't even been crossing that long.

 

I will evaluate holding or tapering at the end of the C/O based on how I am feeling and your advice. My conservative was starting with a 3% cut and see how long it takes to feel it, adjust etc. i don't like the sound of 5% in a month. I would think (hope) I could taper V as least as fast as K. We will see. I am not going to worry about that now. I see my pdoc on Mon and I will get 5mg and 2mg pills. Not sure how many to ask for of each. I only have 10 mg V pills, so that will be helpful.

 

Thanks again for all your help! you have helped make this such an easy cross for me.

[[Da...]]

I am not sure if this is the best place to post this, but I would love to get feedback from other "microtaper-ers" of clonazepam, since I am not taking the meds myself,--my daughter is and she does not like to attribute anything she is feeling to the medicine in any way, shape or form! 

 

I am wondering if I do a micro-micro taper, reducing just 1/5ml (.2ml) out of the 100ml of the milk/medicine mixture each day, will she still experience symptoms of withdrawal? I restarted her clonazepam taper, starting with her original dose of .5mg, 10 days ago. Her medicine mixture will be down tonight by 2ml or 2% in 10 days. She had some anger issues this afternoon, but she was very, very tired from not getting enough sleep the last few days (mainly due to having to stay up to finish homework.) I am not sure if I should hold the taper for a few days?  Opinions, thoughts? Anyone else do a taper this slow, or am I not going slow enough?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[[...]]

Thank you! That makes me feel better. It eases my fears. I am feeling much better then when I started my c/o.

 

I am definitely a fast V metabolizer. I am a rapid metabolizer of most meds and a couple I am just an extensive metabolizer of. Genetic testing verified what I already knew. I will do 4mg a day for the rest of the cross, if it goes well. After a week of that, I would only have 6mg left to cross. I am nervous about removing K doses completely. I can't cut them down really low on my scale especially with 1mg pills. I am sure it will be ok.

 

I know they are building up, but I am unsure how fast they will build up. From what I have read it takes about a month and I haven't even been crossing that long.

 

I will evaluate holding or tapering at the end of the C/O based on how I am feeling and your advice. My conservative was starting with a 3% cut and see how long it takes to feel it, adjust etc. i don't like the sound of 5% in a month. I would think (hope) I could taper V as least as fast as K. We will see. I am not going to worry about that now. I see my pdoc on Mon and I will get 5mg and 2mg pills. Not sure how many to ask for of each. I only have 10 mg V pills, so that will be helpful.

 

Thanks again for all your help! you have helped make this such an easy cross for me.

 

I think the metabolites are up very high already.  The reason I say this is you feel good.  The V (and its metabolites) must be up high because they have effectively replaced the K.  If they were not high you would feel awful.  It makes sense that, being a fast metabolizer, both the K and V reach equilibrium quickly - their half life in you in short so you have lower accumulated K and V levels and these levels are reached quicker.  I doubt it takes a month for them to build up in your case...more like a few days.

 

I had forgotten that you are able to cut a few percent every few days.  I agree 5% a month may be overly cautious.

 

The 5mg and 2mg pills will be a big help since you use the scale.  They will give you much more accuracy and control.