Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ca...]]

I'm just concerned  if I'm cutting .001g and the scale is fluctuating by .001 - .002.  Won't  that be confusing?

 

No, I don't think so.  The scale error is the scale error and is there no matter what.  Do your best to get the number right and you will benefit from dropping down a ramp instead of a bigger step drop.

 

I'm starting to do a MT with a scale.  I was wondering the same thing about the weight fluctuation.  I kind of figure the same thing.  Better to be moving down in small increments.

sierra, just make sure you calibrate your scale before you cut pills and yes the wieghts can fluctuate a gram or so but don`t sweat it alot of this is mental just do the best you can !

 

[[bu...]]

I'm just concerned  if I'm cutting .001g and the scale is fluctuating by .001 - .002.  Won't  that be confusing?

 

No, I don't think so.  The scale error is the scale error and is there no matter what.  Do your best to get the number right and you will benefit from dropping down a ramp instead of a bigger step drop.

 

I'm starting to do a MT with a scale.  I was wondering the same thing about the weight fluctuation.  I kind of figure the same thing.  Better to be moving down in small increments.

    Consistency is more important than accuracy!

[[ga...]]

Each ml of X dilution contains .05mg X so if you reduce by .32ml a week that is .016mg X a week and .069mg X a month.  The X will be gone in 167 days, then you will have 25mg L remaining.  Since it will be the end of your taper that could easily take a year or more.  I'd say you are looking at 18+ months.

 

Thanks. Did you re-figure my 7% for each month as I went down? I'm not sure how often I need to refigure the 7% when I am cutting daily.

 

No, I didn't get that detailed.  I just know 25mg L (which is 10mg V) usually takes a year or more for most and you are certainly not sprinting.

 

As for the 7%, I'd stay with your cut if you feel okay, but use the monthly percentage to keep an eye on it.

 

 

When you say "stay with your cut" do you mean keep cutting the .069 every month even though that makes the percentage go up? I have heard over and over to pick a percentage and stick with the percentage, though I have to admit I don't understand why.

 

My thinking (foggy) is that if that percentage rule is true, I want to find my percentage now while I'm reducing the X. I have heard that mistakes with X (such as too large a cut) are felt quickly and can be remedied quickly. Whereas, mistakes with V or L may not show up for weeks and then you are just stuck with them.

 

Thoughts, anyone?

[[...]]

No, I didn't get that detailed.  I just know 25mg L (which is 10mg V) usually takes a year or more for most and you are certainly not sprinting.

 

As for the 7%, I'd stay with your cut if you feel okay, but use the monthly percentage to keep an eye on it.

 

 

When you say "stay with your cut" do you mean keep cutting the .069 every month even though that makes the percentage go up? I have heard over and over to pick a percentage and stick with the percentage, though I have to admit I don't understand why.

 

My thinking (foggy) is that if that percentage rule is true, I want to find my percentage now while I'm reducing the X. I have heard that mistakes with X (such as too large a cut) are felt quickly and can be remedied quickly. Whereas, mistakes with V or L may not show up for weeks and then you are just stuck with them.

 

Thoughts, anyone?

 

I think if you have a cut that is working then when it starts to get too big you'll know and make the change.  You can also be proactive and reduce your cut based on percentage regardless of symptom increase.  Picking a percentage and sticking with it is a way to mimic what is really going on.  Taper curves are a gentle arc shape and cutting by percentage is an easy way to create a very similar shape (until near the very end, which you don't need to worry about yet).

[[ga...]]

No, I didn't get that detailed.  I just know 25mg L (which is 10mg V) usually takes a year or more for most and you are certainly not sprinting.

 

As for the 7%, I'd stay with your cut if you feel okay, but use the monthly percentage to keep an eye on it.

 

 

When you say "stay with your cut" do you mean keep cutting the .069 every month even though that makes the percentage go up? I have heard over and over to pick a percentage and stick with the percentage, though I have to admit I don't understand why.

 

My thinking (foggy) is that if that percentage rule is true, I want to find my percentage now while I'm reducing the X. I have heard that mistakes with X (such as too large a cut) are felt quickly and can be remedied quickly. Whereas, mistakes with V or L may not show up for weeks and then you are just stuck with them.

 

Thoughts, anyone?

 

I think if you have a cut that is working then when it starts to get too big you'll know and make the change.  You can also be proactive and reduce your cut based on percentage regardless of symptom increase.  Picking a percentage and sticking with it is a way to mimic what is really going on.  Taper curves are a gentle arc shape and cutting by percentage is an easy way to create a very similar shape (until near the very end, which you don't need to worry about yet).

 

I have a lot of trouble with knowing when a cut is too big because I have have flare ups of physical and mental symptoms that I had before the benzo (mainly neuropathy and insomnia and some panic)  that mimic w/d symptoms. So I don't know if I'm going too fast or if it's the old junk come back again. But this taper is so slow it is crushing my spirit. I want to go faster. I'm going to try to keep pushing until I hit 8%/month. Maybe 10%. Or try to.

 

Do you think that once I am off the X and tapering the L I will be able to go faster? I actually tapered from about 1.8mg X to about 1.3mg X fairly rapidly and with tolerable anxiety, really not bad at all. Then the sh** hit the fan. I held a month and saw no improvement and no relief. In fact, I think I was getting worse. I then micro-tapered for a bit and saw no difference. Finally I did my half crossover and got some relief. It actually felt like an up dose, so I wonder how accurate those equivalencies really are. I've been tapering with pain since then, but I have days when I can function pretty normally. These last two days have been bad, though, especially the neuropathy.

 

Sometimes I think I should go faster just to get it over with. Tell me that's crazy so I don't do it!

[[Ma...]]

Definitely the middle dose.  The other doses will be 5mg soon enough.

 

I don't think it works that way.  As long as there is benzo at the receptor the CNS is happy.  I don't think it knows any difference between K and V.

 

I knew you were going to say that. I don't know why I asked  It is clearly what makes the most sense. I am just being a baby because I am cutting all these pills and from bigger pill increments than I would prefer. My next swap, probably Tues, I will be cutting 9 pills a day  You are right they will be 5mg soon enough. If all is going well, I can probably call my pdoc in a couple weeks and ask for some smaller V pills. I'm also not sure what I should about removing the K. I guess start removing from other doses. Right now I am dosing K like this .5mg, .35mg, 41mg, .41mg, .41mg, .35mg and I am dosing 3mg V with the second and last dose. Then I will add V to 4th dose and swap out K. I feel completely fine. My heart only raced very briefly. I definitely do not think I will feel a difference. I even forgot about my 1:00 dose and didn't take it until 1:45. If things continue like this maybe I will add 3mg on Tuesday or maybe I should play it safe and add 2mg. I wish I could some sedation at night, if it would help with my sleep.

 

I remembered what you said right. That makes sense. There are several on KK who are about to end the K part of their taper and I didn't think they would have acute wd and have to do a long hold. Thanks for always being so helpful!!

 

If you cross fully you will only have three pills a day to cut.  That is something to look forward to.  And I am very encouraged that you forgot about a dose...a sure sign things are going good.

 

I'd space V by eight hours and space K by four hours.  Think of them as completely separate from each other....V doses on its own schedule and K on its own.  I'd work on the high .5mg K dose next, then bring the three .41mg doses down to near .35mg.

 

You could try adding 3mg on Tuesday.  You've tolerate 3mg/3 days extremely well so doing it a day sooner makes sense.  Hopefully the longer half life will help sleep.

I really hope I can fully C/O. Three pills a day would definitely be something to look forward to. Also not having bad interdose wd would be even better. I was encouraged by the fact that I forgot a dose, too. I know think I took double of the dose after that. I am so sleep deprived and antihistimes and stomach meds make me out of it. I can't believe I did that. I don't remember doing it, but I noticed a pill missing from tomorrow's box. I remember thinking weird another dose I forget. I need to be more careful  Now I am afraid to make a change Tues and may wait until Wed. I am going to do two pill boxes a day now because it gets confusing when I am so foggy and tired. There are four compartments with 8 pills of different amounts and my pills are almost identical in color. I will do two boxes, so 8 compartments and label with little post its.

 

I have been trying to think of them as separate like you said. So would I dose K like this 8am, 12pm, 4pm, 8pm, 12am, 4am?

Then V 8am, 4pm, 12am?

I will cut the .5mg K first and then the .41mg doses and leave the .35mgs alone. I will start evening them out. I would add the other dose Tues, if I didn't think I probably made a mistake today. I will probably wait to Wed, just in case or maybe I will see how I feel. I hope the longer half life helps me sleep. I think the biggest issue with sleep is my stomach. I am going to acupuncture 2x this week and going to try a couple new things. It is improving. I don't understand it. I don't have any other sxs. Thanks for spending so much time helping me. I really appreciate it! I hope you have a good night and are feeling well!

[[...]]

I think if you have a cut that is working then when it starts to get too big you'll know and make the change.  You can also be proactive and reduce your cut based on percentage regardless of symptom increase.  Picking a percentage and sticking with it is a way to mimic what is really going on.  Taper curves are a gentle arc shape and cutting by percentage is an easy way to create a very similar shape (until near the very end, which you don't need to worry about yet).

 

I have a lot of trouble with knowing when a cut is too big because I have have flare ups of physical and mental symptoms that I had before the benzo (mainly neuropathy and insomnia and some panic)  that mimic w/d symptoms. So I don't know if I'm going too fast or if it's the old junk come back again. But this taper is so slow it is crushing my spirit. I want to go faster. I'm going to try to keep pushing until I hit 8%/month. Maybe 10%. Or try to.

 

Do you think that once I am off the X and tapering the L I will be able to go faster? I actually tapered from about 1.8mg X to about 1.3mg X fairly rapidly and with tolerable anxiety, really not bad at all. Then the sh** hit the fan. I held a month and saw no improvement and no relief. In fact, I think I was getting worse. I then micro-tapered for a bit and saw no difference. Finally I did my half crossover and got some relief. It actually felt like an up dose, so I wonder how accurate those equivalencies really are. I've been tapering with pain since then, but I have days when I can function pretty normally. These last two days have been bad, though, especially the neuropathy.

 

Sometimes I think I should go faster just to get it over with. Tell me that's crazy so I don't do it!

 

Yeah, definitely don't push it.  That is where it really gets bad.  I held for six weeks once during my taper and it seemed like I got nothing out of it, but I did.  I think the brain is always working on correcting things so no time really goes to waste.

 

I think it will be good for you when the X is gone.  You need to dose 5x...that alone is a pain.  L is a good drug to taper, just like V.  I doubt it would allow you to go faster though.  Everything I see points to going slower at lower levels.  That's why it is so important to focus on feeling well rather than getting to zero.

[[...]]

If you cross fully you will only have three pills a day to cut.  That is something to look forward to.  And I am very encouraged that you forgot about a dose...a sure sign things are going good.

 

I'd space V by eight hours and space K by four hours.  Think of them as completely separate from each other....V doses on its own schedule and K on its own.  I'd work on the high .5mg K dose next, then bring the three .41mg doses down to near .35mg.

 

You could try adding 3mg on Tuesday.  You've tolerate 3mg/3 days extremely well so doing it a day sooner makes sense.  Hopefully the longer half life will help sleep.

I really hope I can fully C/O. Three pills a day would definitely be something to look forward to. Also not having bad interdose wd would be even better. I was encouraged by the fact that I forgot a dose, too. I know think I took double of the dose after that. I am so sleep deprived and antihistimes and stomach meds make me out of it. I can't believe I did that. I don't remember doing it, but I noticed a pill missing from tomorrow's box. I remember thinking weird another dose I forget. I need to be more careful  Now I am afraid to make a change Tues and may wait until Wed. I am going to do two pill boxes a day now because it gets confusing when I am so foggy and tired. There are four compartments with 8 pills of different amounts and my pills are almost identical in color. I will do two boxes, so 8 compartments and label with little post its.

 

I have been trying to think of them as separate like you said. So would I dose K like this 8am, 12pm, 4pm, 8pm, 12am, 4am?

Then V 8am, 4pm, 12am?

I will cut the .5mg K first and then the .41mg doses and leave the .35mgs alone. I will start evening them out. I would add the other dose Tues, if I didn't think I probably made a mistake today. I will probably wait to Wed, just in case or maybe I will see how I feel. I hope the longer half life helps me sleep. I think the biggest issue with sleep is my stomach. I am going to acupuncture 2x this week and going to try a couple new things. It is improving. I don't understand it. I don't have any other sxs. Thanks for spending so much time helping me. I really appreciate it! I hope you have a good night and are feeling well!

 

Yes, I would dose as you said, 8, 12, 4, 8, 12, 4 for K and 8, 4, 12 for V.  You have already crossed 6mg V.  That is more than 10% and you have not felt any ill effects yet.  That's encouraging.  I have a good feeling about this.

[[ga...]]

I think if you have a cut that is working then when it starts to get too big you'll know and make the change.  You can also be proactive and reduce your cut based on percentage regardless of symptom increase.  Picking a percentage and sticking with it is a way to mimic what is really going on.  Taper curves are a gentle arc shape and cutting by percentage is an easy way to create a very similar shape (until near the very end, which you don't need to worry about yet).

 

I have a lot of trouble with knowing when a cut is too big because I have have flare ups of physical and mental symptoms that I had before the benzo (mainly neuropathy and insomnia and some panic)  that mimic w/d symptoms. So I don't know if I'm going too fast or if it's the old junk come back again. But this taper is so slow it is crushing my spirit. I want to go faster. I'm going to try to keep pushing until I hit 8%/month. Maybe 10%. Or try to.

 

Do you think that once I am off the X and tapering the L I will be able to go faster? I actually tapered from about 1.8mg X to about 1.3mg X fairly rapidly and with tolerable anxiety, really not bad at all. Then the sh** hit the fan. I held a month and saw no improvement and no relief. In fact, I think I was getting worse. I then micro-tapered for a bit and saw no difference. Finally I did my half crossover and got some relief. It actually felt like an up dose, so I wonder how accurate those equivalencies really are. I've been tapering with pain since then, but I have days when I can function pretty normally. These last two days have been bad, though, especially the neuropathy.

 

Sometimes I think I should go faster just to get it over with. Tell me that's crazy so I don't do it!

 

Yeah, definitely don't push it.  That is where it really gets bad.  I held for six weeks once during my taper and it seemed like I got nothing out of it, but I did.  I think the brain is always working on correcting things so no time really goes to waste.

 

I think it will be good for you when the X is gone.  You need to dose 5x...that alone is a pain.  L is a good drug to taper, just like V.  I doubt it would allow you to go faster though.  Everything I see points to going slower at lower levels.  That's why it is so important to focus on feeling well rather than getting to zero.

 

Thanks, SG. I just don't understand why I have to go so much slower than everybody else and still I have so much pain. It makes me think it can't possibly be the taper. 

[[...]]

Yeah, definitely don't push it.  That is where it really gets bad.  I held for six weeks once during my taper and it seemed like I got nothing out of it, but I did.  I think the brain is always working on correcting things so no time really goes to waste.

 

I think it will be good for you when the X is gone.  You need to dose 5x...that alone is a pain.  L is a good drug to taper, just like V.  I doubt it would allow you to go faster though.  Everything I see points to going slower at lower levels.  That's why it is so important to focus on feeling well rather than getting to zero.

 

Thanks, SG. I just don't understand why I have to go so much slower than everybody else and still I have so much pain. It makes me think it can't possibly be the taper. 

 

I sometimes think dialing the taper rate way back or even taking a long break is best, rather than to keep constantly chugging on the edge.  I really wish I had approached my taper differently.  It really is such a long haul, we need to feel well.  Maybe a break would do you good?

[[ga...]]

Yeah, definitely don't push it.  That is where it really gets bad.  I held for six weeks once during my taper and it seemed like I got nothing out of it, but I did.  I think the brain is always working on correcting things so no time really goes to waste.

 

I think it will be good for you when the X is gone.  You need to dose 5x...that alone is a pain.  L is a good drug to taper, just like V.  I doubt it would allow you to go faster though.  Everything I see points to going slower at lower levels.  That's why it is so important to focus on feeling well rather than getting to zero.

 

Thanks, SG. I just don't understand why I have to go so much slower than everybody else and still I have so much pain. It makes me think it can't possibly be the taper. 

 

I sometimes think dialing the taper rate way back or even taking a long break is best, rather than to keep constantly chugging on the edge.  I really wish I had approached my taper differently.  It really is such a long haul, we need to feel well.  Maybe a break would do you good?

 

Maybe kicking my son out of the house would do me even more good!

 

Seriously, though, I don't know if a lot of this junk is from my autoimmune disorder, my sleep disorder, or the taper. When I see my psychiatrist, I'll see what he thinks. I need to have him onboard. I haven't even seen him since I stopped mid crossover. He might be like 

 

Thanks for being so patient with all of my questions!

[[Ma...]]

If you cross fully you will only have three pills a day to cut.  That is something to look forward to.  And I am very encouraged that you forgot about a dose...a sure sign things are going good.

 

I'd space V by eight hours and space K by four hours.  Think of them as completely separate from each other....V doses on its own schedule and K on its own.  I'd work on the high .5mg K dose next, then bring the three .41mg doses down to near .35mg.

 

You could try adding 3mg on Tuesday.  You've tolerate 3mg/3 days extremely well so doing it a day sooner makes sense.  Hopefully the longer half life will help sleep.

I really hope I can fully C/O. Three pills a day would definitely be something to look forward to. Also not having bad interdose wd would be even better. I was encouraged by the fact that I forgot a dose, too. I know think I took double of the dose after that. I am so sleep deprived and antihistimes and stomach meds make me out of it. I can't believe I did that. I don't remember doing it, but I noticed a pill missing from tomorrow's box. I remember thinking weird another dose I forget. I need to be more careful  Now I am afraid to make a change Tues and may wait until Wed. I am going to do two pill boxes a day now because it gets confusing when I am so foggy and tired. There are four compartments with 8 pills of different amounts and my pills are almost identical in color. I will do two boxes, so 8 compartments and label with little post its.

 

I have been trying to think of them as separate like you said. So would I dose K like this 8am, 12pm, 4pm, 8pm, 12am, 4am?

Then V 8am, 4pm, 12am?

I will cut the .5mg K first and then the .41mg doses and leave the .35mgs alone. I will start evening them out. I would add the other dose Tues, if I didn't think I probably made a mistake today. I will probably wait to Wed, just in case or maybe I will see how I feel. I hope the longer half life helps me sleep. I think the biggest issue with sleep is my stomach. I am going to acupuncture 2x this week and going to try a couple new things. It is improving. I don't understand it. I don't have any other sxs. Thanks for spending so much time helping me. I really appreciate it! I hope you have a good night and are feeling well!

 

Yes, I would dose as you said, 8, 12, 4, 8, 12, 4 for K and 8, 4, 12 for V.  You have already crossed 6mg V.  That is more than 10% and you have not felt any ill effects yet.  That's encouraging.  I have a good feeling about this.

I will start dosing that way Tuesday. I don't want to recut my pills for tomorrow. I also am not going to set an alarm for the 4am dose. I will see what happens with my sleep. If it continues as it has the last two weeks, I will just take it when my stomach wakes me up. If I start sleeping well again, which I hope happens soon, I will just take it when I wake up and dose every 4 hours. My body will need to adjust to this and also I am pretty sure I took my 4th dose twice today I know it's just a one time thing, but it freaked me out. I set my my pill boxes with stickies on them, so there shouldn't be any more mistakes. I think I will add the 3mg of V on Wed. to be safe. Thanks! I do, too. I have to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Otherwise if things don't go the way I expect, I get really upset. This has GREATLY worsened since tapering. Thank you so much for all your help and patience. I will try to give you a little break, but I will probably ask your advice again soon. I think it will, hopefully, just be a quick question or two. It is truly wonderful, all the amazing help you give!

[[Ho...]]

SG,

 

I've been slowly tapering down K... I've been going at a rate of .002g cut per day. Starting to feel the withdrawal a bit more - manageable but the anxiety is getting a bit worse upon waking. Headaches throughout the day as well.

 

Question for those nearing the end of their taper: how much should I slow down towards the end? I know everyone is different but would be helpful to know what others have been doing towards the end to feel OK and taper at a good rate. Also, at what point do people tend to jump? At the very end, .001g?

 

Thanks!

[[...]]

SG,

 

I've been slowly tapering down K... I've been going at a rate of .002g cut per day. Starting to feel the withdrawal a bit more - manageable but the anxiety is getting a bit worse upon waking. Headaches throughout the day as well.

 

Question for those nearing the end of their taper: how much should I slow down towards the end? I know everyone is different but would be helpful to know what others have been doing towards the end to feel OK and taper at a good rate. Also, at what point do people tend to jump? At the very end, .001g?

 

Thanks!

 

.002g on a .5mg K pill is .006mg/day...that is quite fast at your dose.  Or did you mean .002mg?  Even .002mg is fast for a daily cut.  Do what it takes to keep symptoms from increasing.  That could be a hold or just changing to maybe a .001g cut depending on how you feel.  I would not recommend jumping.  I think it is best to taper all the way to zero.

[[Ho...]]

SG,

 

I've been slowly tapering down K... I've been going at a rate of .002g cut per day. Starting to feel the withdrawal a bit more - manageable but the anxiety is getting a bit worse upon waking. Headaches throughout the day as well.

 

Question for those nearing the end of their taper: how much should I slow down towards the end? I know everyone is different but would be helpful to know what others have been doing towards the end to feel OK and taper at a good rate. Also, at what point do people tend to jump? At the very end, .001g?

 

Thanks!

 

.002g on a .5mg K pill is .006mg/day...that is quite fast at your dose.  Or did you mean .002mg?  Even .002mg is fast for a daily cut.  Do what it takes to keep symptoms from increasing.  That could be a hold or just changing to maybe a .001g cut depending on how you feel.  I would not recommend jumping.  I think it is best to taper all the way to zero.

 

Yes, .002g every day on a .5mg K pill. I'll try a .001g cut and see how it goes. Thank you!!!

[[Be...]]

SG,

 

I've been slowly tapering down K... I've been going at a rate of .002g cut per day. Starting to feel the withdrawal a bit more - manageable but the anxiety is getting a bit worse upon waking. Headaches throughout the day as well.

 

Question for those nearing the end of their taper: how much should I slow down towards the end? I know everyone is different but would be helpful to know what others have been doing towards the end to feel OK and taper at a good rate. Also, at what point do people tend to jump? At the very end, .001g?

 

Thanks!

 

Hi Hopefulmom,

 

It's quite individual how people taper throughout withdrawal.  You appear to be listening well to your body and acknowledging that symptoms have increased.  Towards the end I had to reduce from 0.004 mg/day to 0.003 mg/day.  You can see my experience by clicking on the link of my signature below.

[[...]]

Ok so I am trying to cut .0125 a day that is a wee bit over 10% every two weeks. I am at 1.5mg Ativan a day. The problem I am having is I cannot really get my scale to register that.

 

I bought the Gemini scale and for instance if the pill is .80 and I need it to be .7875 it jumps to just .79 or .78.

Any suggestions on this would be great. I might switch to liquid I really like the idea of 99 days since I have not been on it that long.

[[ca...]]

Ok so I am trying to cut .0125 a day that is a wee bit over 10% every two weeks. I am at 1.5mg Ativan a day. The problem I am having is I cannot really get my scale to register that.

 

I bought the Gemini scale and for instance if the pill is .80 and I need it to be .7875 it jumps to just .79 or .78.

Any suggestions on this would be great. I might switch to liquid I really like the idea of 99 days since I have not been on it that long.

MJE, Ihave a Gemni scale their ok not great but i think for most are ok . You say your pill is 80 grams then just cut a weeks worth dropping on gram a day so first cut 79 grams on scale then .78 etc. Gem scales won`t go lower then .00 and calibrate the scale to ensure acuracy every time you put it away and use it again  understand ? Hopefully other can help you more !

[[Ma...]]

SG,

I am sorry to bother you again so soon. I have good news. I crossed another .15mg K for 3mg V and it went the same. After an hour my heart raced for 15 min and it stopped. I feel the same and a little better, but not sure if that was the V. I also forgot to take my next dose and didn't take it until I glanced at the clock and saw I should have taken it an hour ago. I can't dose K every 4 hours like we talked about. Not right now, at least. The interdose wd is too bad. I tried the other day. I left my am dose at .5mg, but I split it into two .25mg pills. If I wake up, which I unfortunately am still doing every night because of my stomach, I take one half and then the other when my stomach wakes me up for good. There is not a huge difference in time, but it helps a little. I really am hoping stomach and sleep improve more. Anyway, so I am dosing K the same, every 3 hrs, except splitting am dose in two. Then I am now taking V with 2nd dose, 4th dose, and 6th (last) dose. So today V was 12pm, 6pm, and will be again at 12am. I am taking 3mg with each dose. I switched 3mg Sun and today, so that is 3mg every other day. I want to switch on Thurs, as long as I am ok tomorrow. I don't know where I should add it. I want to make first and last V dose 5mg each, but maybe 4mg is pushing it. I was curious about your opinion on how I am dosing and how much, to what doses, and when I should add V next couple times. Thanks for continuing to help me!

 

XO Maya

 

Edit: This is how I dosed today

9am .5mg K (I took half of it technically around 7)

12pm .35mg K 3mg V

3pm .33mg K

6pm  .33mg K 3mg V

9pm .41mg K (took it an hour late at 10)

12am .35mg K 3mg V

[[ga...]]

Sounds like your crossover is going well, Maya! I think I had quite a bit of L in there for quite some time before I cut back to dosing 5x/day, so what's happening with your crossover sounds normal to me. I defer to SG for how much and when to make your next switch because the numbers make my benzo brain swim.

 

We can do this!

 

Gard

[[Ma...]]

Sounds like your crossover is going well, Maya!

Thank you so much! I cut 10 pills a day, right now  It will be worth it if C/O continues to go well!  I hope you are well and found a good therapist!

 

:smitten:

[[Hi...]]

I am so so unstable. Could adding like 5mg of valium possbly get me out of tolerance withdrawal?  I tried to  cross over a while  back and substituted  10mg for .5mg and was great  for a week and  then it started building  up and made me so sick i felt like i was going to  di but i wonder if just 5 at night could build up enough to get me stable and then  continue  tapering  the ativan.....cuz im a psychotic  mess oh lord help me

[[...]]

SG,

I am sorry to bother you again so soon. I have good news. I crossed another .15mg K for 3mg V and it went the same. After an hour my heart raced for 15 min and it stopped. I feel the same and a little better, but not sure if that was the V. I also forgot to take my next dose and didn't take it until I glanced at the clock and saw I should have taken it an hour ago. I can't dose K every 4 hours like we talked about. Not right now, at least. The interdose wd is too bad. I tried the other day. I left my am dose at .5mg, but I split it into two .25mg pills. If I wake up, which I unfortunately am still doing every night because of my stomach, I take one half and then the other when my stomach wakes me up for good. There is not a huge difference in time, but it helps a little. I really am hoping stomach and sleep improve more. Anyway, so I am dosing K the same, every 3 hrs, except splitting am dose in two. Then I am now taking V with 2nd dose, 4th dose, and 6th (last) dose. So today V was 12pm, 6pm, and will be again at 12am. I am taking 3mg with each dose. I switched 3mg Sun and today, so that is 3mg every other day. I want to switch on Thurs, as long as I am ok tomorrow. I don't know where I should add it. I want to make first and last V dose 5mg each, but maybe 4mg is pushing it. I was curious about your opinion on how I am dosing and how much, to what doses, and when I should add V next couple times. Thanks for continuing to help me!

 

XO Maya

 

Edit: This is how I dosed today

9am .5mg K (I took half of it technically around 7)

12pm .35mg K 3mg V

3pm .33mg K

6pm  .33mg K 3mg V

9pm .41mg K (took it an hour late at 10)

12am .35mg K 3mg V

 

You clearly seem to be able to swap 1mg/day with little problem, and maybe even 1.5mg/day.  You now have three V doses of 3mg each and you want to add another 3mg.  What I would do is add 1mg to each dose.  Even better, I'd recommend adding 1.5mg every day, instead of 3mg every other day, by adding .5mg to each dose every day.  You have a scale so you are in a great position to do this.

 

On your dosing, can the AM V dose be earlier?  There is a 12 hour gap right now.  Taking it at 9am would be an improvement.  K has a nine hour gap and we've talked about middle-of-the-night dosing.  Anything you can do to reduce that gap is a help.

[[Ma...]]

SG,

I am now getting a bit paranoid of crossing over too fast and ruining or hindering my C/O or making me have to hold for a long time at the end. I forgot about the active metabolites needing to build up. I had been thinking of it more like K. I think they take a month to build up. If I c/o at 1.5mg a day, it will take me a month to cross over the rest. Do you think that could become an issue? I care most about doing the taper in a way that will give me the absolute best chance of a complete c/o.

 

The cutting of the 10mg V pills is problematic it takes awhile because the pill crumbles a lot. Making them into smaller amounts is hard. I don't want to call my pdoc and ask for smaller pills because I would have to say I did direct c/o and I am tapering V to get smaller pills. I want to wait a little longer to see how I do. I see him on the 30th. I hope by then I will know well enough. I wanted to try to make doses bigger, but I will just deal with it. It makes cutting me regret ever complaining about cutting 1mg K pills. It's also confusing when you are sleep deprived and foggy to do the math and cut all different size pills and 10 of them. I will stop complaining and just deal with it.

 

I am willing to try adding 1.5mg a day. I do get concerned because MTing did not work well for at all for me. I think it will work well at a low dose. I also am apprehensive about chaninging more than two doses a day. In the past changing all my doses has been problematic. I cut my pills for today already. Maybe I will try adding 1.5mg to two doses tomorrow. Then I will try adding to all 3, if that goes well. Then if that goes well I will try adding .5mg of V to each dose a day. Does that make sense? Sorry, I am tired and foggy.

 

Yes, I could dose the V with the first dose. I dosed it with the 2nd that way when I was doing it two times a day it was 12 hours a part. I must have misunderstood what you said. I want to reduce the 9 hour gap of dosing at night. I can't dose the K every 4 hours because I started to get interdose wd. I probably could if I was on more V. Today I took half of my first dose at 4am when my stomach woke me up and then the rest at 7. Today I will be dosing K every 3 hours starting with 7am. I know my dosing is a bit of a mess. I could create a 7th dose for when I wake up. Does that make sense? That is the only thing I can think of. I really wish it would go back to me just not waking up and getting the sleep I need. This is my third week dealing with my stomach and sleep issues. It's hard. I appreciate your help.

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A good thing about crossing this way is you can hold as needed.  If it seems too fast just delay the next one for a day or two as needed.  The active V metabolites are already building.  I would not worry about it.

 

As for pill cutting, you're already dosing V three times a day so there are no more pills to cut, just the same number of pills getting bigger?

 

I don't know why MT did not work well for you, but I am not concluding that it had to do with your dose.  I think there was another reason, although I don't know what that is.  But I understand your apprehension, based on your past experience.

 

Anything you can do to reduce the gaps in dosing will work in your favor.  This is not a black and white thing.  It is shades of grey.  Lots of subjective trade-offs.  You'll decide what dosing times are worth it or not.

 

Good to get V on an eight hour schedule.