Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Ma...]]

Gardener,

Thanks! I couldn't cut 2.75mg of K into 6 doses without a scale. Well not very accurately. I have been using a scale for over two months. My earlier taper I just cut .5mg a week. That would not work for me now! Now I long for the days when I only cut 4 pills a day. I see people with V just not using scales. I get it. I just will always prefer more precise and accurate cuts. I am also whining because I wish I had .5mg K pills and 5mg and 2mg V pills. I will suck it up and stop being a baby.

 

I'm glad you have a pdoc who is willing to think outside the box. My pdoc is not. It took a lot to get Valium. Also I don't think Librium would really help me because of its half life being the same as K's. I hope I feel better right away. I have no idea what to expect. Also V, I think, needs to build up in your body. I am definitely VERY motivated to cross. I need the longer half life. I don't want to have to deal with interdose wd. I know you felt the same. How long did you cross take? You crossed 1mg of 2mg of X over?

 

Thank you so much! I have become very paranoid and indecisive since tapering. It is crazy! It was brave of you to do the c/o. I hope you continue to feel better and better!

 

XO Maya

[[...]]

SG,

I'm very please with how the smaller cuts have been going. This will be my last cut for at least a month, I am assuming. I start the c/o Wed, so I don't think that would allow me to cut again. Right?

 

Right.  I don't see any sense in mixing crossing and cutting.  Seems like it would be compounding problems to me.  Do one or the other, but not both.

[[Ma...]]

I don't either. I thought about another small cut Tues, but I don't want to risk it. I am definitely starting my C/O on Wed. I wish I could continue cutting, but the interdose wd is just a huge issue.

[[ga...]]

Going to be attempting a liquid taper coming soon since nothing else seems to be tolerable so I figured I'd join this thread.  Some of you know of me some of you don't.  For those of you that do I thank you for all of the great info you have given me so far to get me to this point and I may need more as time goes by.  Will keep everyone posted!  :socool:

 

Hi Raven and welcome! You are in the right place for making sure you dilute and figure your daily cuts correctly. Not from me, though. I am the Cross-over Queen and the Princess of Paranoia on here, but definitely not a Math and Dilution Guru! I would be a total basket case from screwing up my taper if not for our Math and Dilution Gurus. You'll know soon who whey are; just ask an MT question and if you get a sensible answer, you've found one of them!

 

Gard

 

Thank you Gardner I am relying on spreadsheets for that so I can see where I'm at and don't have to think too much although I'm sure I'll be able to think clearer once I start tapering ..  However I know sg57 is awesome

 

Man, if you know how to use a spreadsheet, you can be a math guru, too! 

[[ga...]]

Gardener,

Thanks! I couldn't cut 2.75mg of K into 6 doses without a scale. Well not very accurately. I have been using a scale for over two months. My earlier taper I just cut .5mg a week. That would not work for me now! Now I long for the days when I only cut 4 pills a day. I see people with V just not using scales. I get it. I just will always prefer more precise and accurate cuts. I am also whining because I wish I had .5mg K pills and 5mg and 2mg V pills. I will suck it up and stop being a baby.

 

I'm glad you have a pdoc who is willing to think outside the box. My pdoc is not. It took a lot to get Valium. Also I don't think Librium would really help me because of its half life being the same as K's. I hope I feel better right away. I have no idea what to expect. Also V, I think, needs to build up in your body. I am definitely VERY motivated to cross. I need the longer half life. I don't want to have to deal with interdose wd. I know you felt the same. How long did you cross take? You crossed 1mg of 2mg of X over?

 

Thank you so much! I have become very paranoid and indecisive since tapering. It is crazy! It was brave of you to do the c/o. I hope you continue to feel better and better!

 

XO Maya

 

Maya, L has a half life much longer than K because it has active metabolites that are very slow, but that doesn't help you if your doctor won't prescribe it.

 

I took a month to cross half way to L. I only crossed and did not cut. I can't exactly remember where I was when I started the cross, maybe at 1.2 X or something like that? I believe Ashton says to only cross for the first month and then allows cuts with the cross in the second month. By a month, the V would be built up and very level.

 

It was very desperate of me to do the crossover! I've had so many bad med reactions in my life that I was paranoid and waited much longer than I should have! Not so paranoid any more. All my predictions of doom turned out to be for naught. You will be fine, too.

 

Gard

[[Ma...]]

Gardener,

I know it has the active metabolites, but I feel like it still would be problematic because it is metabolized the same way as K and has the same half life. I doubt my pdoc would prescribe it. Also at my dose with all those capsules, would not be good. I am really hoping the V works out. I wil not cut during the c/o. I don't think it makes sense. I know Ashton does it, but I am too paranoid for that.

 

Yeah, I am at a desperate place because of the interdose wd. I have known for a long time that it was an issue. I also waited longer than I should have. I am not sensitive to meds, usually. I just have taken K for 13 years, so it is nerve racking. I appreciate all your info and support! Thanks so much! I hope your appts are going well!

 

XO Maya 

 

 

[[ga...]]

Gardener,

I know it has the active metabolites, but I feel like it still would be problematic because it is metabolized the same way as K and has the same half life. I doubt my pdoc would prescribe it. Also at my dose with all those capsules, would not be good. I am really hoping the V works out. I wil not cut during the c/o. I don't think it makes sense. I know Ashton does it, but I am too paranoid for that.

 

Yeah, I am at a desperate place because of the interdose wd. I have known for a long time that it was an issue. I also waited longer than I should have. I am not sensitive to meds, usually. I just have taken K for 13 years, so it is nerve racking. I appreciate all your info and support! Thanks so much! I hope your appts are going well!

 

XO Maya 

 

I think you'll do OK with a slow, careful crossover to V. It has been the standard way of getting off for many years and many, many people have done it successfully. One of the reasons I picked L (besides my enzyme issues) was I had been given a dose of L once and did not have any kind of bad reaction, so at least I didn't have to worry about that.

 

The chart I saw showed Ashton doing only crossing for one month before starting a mixture of crossing and cutting. I think your decision to cross and not cut at the same time is a wise one. Better safe than sorry.

 

Looking forward to hearing how it goes! I'm very hopeful!

 

Gard

[[Ma...]]

 

I think you'll do OK with a slow, careful crossover to V. It has been the standard way of getting off for many years and many, many people have done it successfully. One of the reasons I picked L (besides my enzyme issues) was I had been given a dose of L once and did not have any kind of bad reaction, so at least I didn't have to worry about that.

 

The chart I saw showed Ashton doing only crossing for one month before starting a mixture of crossing and cutting. I think your decision to cross and not cut at the same time is a wise one. Better safe than sorry.

 

Looking forward to hearing how it goes! I'm very hopeful!

 

Gard

Gardner,

Thank you! I get nervous because it is K to V. I think I will be fine. Ashton says that some people in klonopin can't tolerate V and have to taper directly off it. She doesn't say why. I don't think that will be my case. I won't know until I try. I will metabolize it faster than most. I am also a rapid metabolizer of CY2C19 according to me genetic testing. At least it will have the longer half life and I should metabolize the active metabolites normally.

 

I took V for a week once. This was many years ago. I was on 8mg of K, ambien, adderall, Prozac, and maybe Wellbutrin, too...this pdoc really tried to medicate me. He gave me 5mg of V to take at night to help me sleep. It didn't do anything to me. It's probably because it was such a low dose compared to my 8mg of K. I also took it a couple other times just as a one time thing and same thing. On the 13th when I first got my Valium, I impulsively took one that night instead of my last dose. I took a 10mg pill because my last dose was .5mg. It made me feel sedated. I kind of liked the feeling. It was so strange. K hasn't sedated me in over 11 years. An hour later my body started getting upset because I had not taken my klonopin. The V helped with this, but not completely. I got nervous that I would wake up with bad sxs. My hear was already starting to race. I took my .5mg of K. The next morning I didn't feel the interdose wd as much. I also didn't feel it as much between dose 1 and 2. I know that was one time, but I take it as a good sign. Sorry, I am babbling on.

 

Ashton's chart does show a mixture of crossing and cutting. I am not doing that. You are right better safe than sorry. Also hers is for a complete c/o, which I am not sure if I will be doing.

 

Thanks! I am hopeful, too. I also know that the c/o might be a bit bumpy and there is a chance I might not tolerate it well or be able to c/o as much as I want. I feel good about it though. I think DBT is going to be great for you!

 

XO Maya 

[[ga...]]

Hey Sharkey, SG, builder, any available guru. Here's the current state of my half-crossed MT.

 

http://jgardner.zohosites.com/files/DSCN1979.JPG

 

I am part on Librium, shown in black and taken in 5mg capsules, and part on a 5% dilution of liquid Xanax, shown in green. I have been tapering away the Xanax. It looks like I am getting uneven in my dosing. I'm not sure if it matters or if I should do something about it. My goal is to get rid of the X and dose the L 3 times/day while I taper the L.

 

Circled just means I took that dose. I also did some scribbling near the top to figure to where I think I am with my combo of X and L. You can disregard that unless you want to point out that I got it wrong!

 

Any ideas about how to proceed? Thanks!

 

Gard

[[...]]

Hey Sharkey, SG, builder, any available guru. Here's the current state of my half-crossed MT.

 

http://jgardner.zohosites.com/files/DSCN1979.JPG

 

I am part on Librium, shown in black and taken in 5mg capsules, and part on a 5% dilution of liquid Xanax, shown in green. I have been tapering away the Xanax. It looks like I am getting uneven in my dosing. I'm not sure if it matters or if I should do something about it. My goal is to get rid of the X and dose the L 3 times/day while I taper the L.

 

Circled just means I took that dose. I also did some scribbling near the top to figure to where I think I am with my combo of X and L. You can disregard that unless you want to point out that I got it wrong!

 

Any ideas about how to proceed? Thanks!

 

Gard

 

Hi Gard,

 

On the X side, ideally you want to dose 1.30ml (.065mg) for each dose and bring them all down together.  Remind me again why you don't dose X at 11pm.  The two 2.72ml doses are more than double the 1.30ml value, so that could stand to be cleaned up.  And the other three X doses could stand to come up.  I'd add an 11pm dose and even them all out, or at a bare minimum freeze the low doses and only taper the two 2.72ml doses.

 

On the L side, not bad.  One of your 5mg caps could be moved to one of the other doses.  I assume you'd rather not split the caps open yet.

[[ga...]]

Hey Sharkey, SG, builder, any available guru. Here's the current state of my half-crossed MT.

 

http://jgardner.zohosites.com/files/DSCN1979.JPG

 

I am part on Librium, shown in black and taken in 5mg capsules, and part on a 5% dilution of liquid Xanax, shown in green. I have been tapering away the Xanax. It looks like I am getting uneven in my dosing. I'm not sure if it matters or if I should do something about it. My goal is to get rid of the X and dose the L 3 times/day while I taper the L.

 

Circled just means I took that dose. I also did some scribbling near the top to figure to where I think I am with my combo of X and L. You can disregard that unless you want to point out that I got it wrong!

 

Any ideas about how to proceed? Thanks!

 

Gard

 

Hi Gard,

 

On the X side, ideally you want to dose 1.30ml (.065mg) for each dose and bring them all down together.  Remind me again why you don't dose X at 11pm.  The two 2.72ml doses are more than double the 1.30ml value, so that could stand to be cleaned up.  And the other three X doses could stand to come up.  I'd add an 11pm dose and even them all out, or at a bare minimum freeze the low doses and only taper the two 2.72ml doses.

 

On the L side, not bad.  One of your 5mg caps could be moved to one of the other doses.  I assume you'd rather not split the caps open yet.

 

Ahhhh. I was looking at these as pairs of doses and trying to keep each pair of doses equivalent to the other two pair without paying attention to whether it was a long or a short benzo. My goal was to get down to dosing only 3 times/day, mostly L and then taper away the remaining bit of X before I started on the L. The two night doses are a pair, the two morning doses are a pair, the two PM doses are a pair. When I started tapering from my half-crossover, those pairs were pretty even if you looked at the equivalencies of 5mgL = .1mg X = 2ml of X dilution.

 

I put 15mg L at bedtime to last me through the night because the X was prescribed to treat severe insomnia, the sort of thing you usually see in withdrawal, only I had never taken a benzo or a sleep med or anything. It came out of the blue and may be trauma-related. Several uninformed doctors thought Xanax was a cure for that. That worked for one month and now the X is just a monkey wrench keeping me from getting to the bottom of why my brain decided to stop sleeping. So sleep is a high issue for me. I metabolize X very fast and was waking up shaking in withdrawal every morning. I wanted a bedtime benzo that would last the night so I started with that dose when I started crossing to L. I also liked not having to take a combo of liquid and pills at bedtime because I was concerned about messing up the measuring when I was so tired. However, since I now have a gazillion of the little brown bottles for my liquid X and my son sets a whole week's worth of meds up for me at a time with each day's meds in it's separate box, I no longer have to be measuring liquids at bedtime and could probably safely add the liquid X back in there to make 6 X doses.

 

Ideally, I would like to be dosing the X 5 times/day and not in the middle of the night because that 3AM dose is really whenever I happen to wake up in the night, so the X is not spaced evenly.

 

The original plan was to keep crossing until I had 3 even doses of L and little or no X, but I found that when I got to 5 + 10 + 15 mg L, I became depressed, so I backed up my cross to 5 + 5 + 15. That backing up actually felt awful, like a big cut, so I'm not eager to try to add more L again lest I have to take it out again.  So I left the L alone and just kept MTing the nice, easy already-liquid X until I realized I had gotten way off course because I had prematurely stopped my crossover. And that's where I am now. And I'm not doing very well, so I started thinking about what might be wrong with my dosing. But then benzo brain couldn't figure it out. Shocking! 

 

I think you are saying I need to balance my 3 L doses separately from balancing my 5 (or 6) X doses because L is slow and X is fast? But I don't want to add more L so I would have to start dissolving the L, too, to balance them. Or would 10mg L at 11Am and 15mg L at 11PM be good enough for the time being? It will be a long time being, though. I have months and months of X to taper.

 

Thanks for trying to help me sort this out and understand.

 

Gard

[[...]]

I think you are saying I need to balance my 3 L doses separately from balancing my 5 (or 6) X doses because L is slow and X is fast? But I don't want to add more L so I would have to start dissolving the L, too, to balance them. Or would 10mg L at 11Am and 15mg L at 11PM be good enough for the time being? It will be a long time being, though. I have months and months of X to taper.

 

Thanks for trying to help me sort this out and understand.

 

Gard

 

Exactly.  Balance them separately as if the other drug was not there.  The 25mg L capsules are not cooperating with three doses, but dosing 5/10/10 might be fine as it is so long acting.

 

The X is the one that has strayed kind of far from evenness.  If you already dose at 11pm could you add an X dose there?  Whatever you can do to even out the X would help I think.

[[ga...]]

 

Exactly.  Balance them separately as if the other drug was not there.  The 25mg L capsules are not cooperating with three doses, but dosing 5/10/10 might be fine as it is so long acting.

 

The X is the one that has strayed kind of far from evenness.  If you already dose at 11pm could you add an X dose there?  Whatever you can do to even out the X would help I think.

 

Actually, I have 5mg L capsules and take a total of 5 of them. Bit nervous about cutting down the L to twice a day, but here is what I came up with.

http://jgardner.zohosites.com/files/DSCN1982.JPG

 

Actually, guess I should turn that 6PM into 5:30PM just to even it out a bit better? Or I could try dividing by quarter-hours and get it even closer to even all through the day. Perhaps I'll think about that when I'm less tired.

 

Also, that 3AM is really somewhere between 2 and 4 AM, whenever I happen to wake up. I can't get any closer than that without setting a 3AM alarm which just ain't gonna happen!

 

This also takes care of my fall-back paranoia, doesn't it? 11PM turns into 10PM, and then everything else is so switched around that who cares that the clock changed?  

[[Mo...]]

Hello all.

I just wanted to drop by and say hello.

Lots of action going on here with schedules and cross overs.

Wishing you all good luck.

 

So,it's been about 3 weeks since the jump. And I certainly don't feel worse than during most of my taper.

The waves seem shorter lived. Whereas I used to be hit and could linger for days, it now see,s to come in hourly outbursts.

My most lingering symptom is vertigo and tinnitus. But it is much less .

I also don't feel that when a panic sets in, it will stay for the rest of the day. It doesn't. It's all in shorter outbursts and I can feel my mind being much clearer and things are more in perspective .

 

It's going to happen for everyone here. 

 

I know many of you still have quite the road ahead. But time will pass. And try being as gentle on yourself as you can .

It's so worth it.

 

Wishing you all the very best. 

[[ga...]]

Hello all.

I just wanted to drop by and say hello.

Lots of action going on here with schedules and cross overs.

Wishing you all good luck.

 

So,it's been about 3 weeks since the jump. And I certainly don't feel worse than during most of my taper.

The waves seem shorter lived. Whereas I used to be hit and could linger for days, it now see,s to come in hourly outbursts.

My most lingering symptom is vertigo and tinnitus. But it is much less .

I also don't feel that when a panic sets in, it will stay for the rest of the day. It doesn't. It's all in shorter outbursts and I can feel my mind being much clearer and things are more in perspective .

 

It's going to happen for everyone here. 

 

I know many of you still have quite the road ahead. But time will pass. And try being as gentle on yourself as you can .

It's so worth it.

 

Wishing you all the very best. 

 

Thanks for sharing this, Moo. You are such an encouragement and I'm so very, very happy for you.

[[...]]

 

Exactly.  Balance them separately as if the other drug was not there.  The 25mg L capsules are not cooperating with three doses, but dosing 5/10/10 might be fine as it is so long acting.

 

The X is the one that has strayed kind of far from evenness.  If you already dose at 11pm could you add an X dose there?  Whatever you can do to even out the X would help I think.

 

Actually, I have 5mg L capsules and take a total of 5 of them. Bit nervous about cutting down the L to twice a day, but here is what I came up with.

http://jgardner.zohosites.com/files/DSCN1982.JPG

 

Actually, guess I should turn that 6PM into 5:30PM just to even it out a bit better? Or I could try dividing by quarter-hours and get it even closer to even all through the day. Perhaps I'll think about that when I'm less tired.

 

Also, that 3AM is really somewhere between 2 and 4 AM, whenever I happen to wake up. I can't get any closer than that without setting a 3AM alarm which just ain't gonna happen!

 

This also takes care of my fall-back paranoia, doesn't it? 11PM turns into 10PM, and then everything else is so switched around that who cares that the clock changed?  

 

I guess I'm not seeing why you would take six doses a day yet only dose X five times.  If you are dosing 6x any way, why not dose X six times?

 

I understand not wanting to break open the L capsules until you are ready to liquify them and taper them.  What you might do is take one with each dose and skip one dose, like the 3am dose.  So you could dose something like this...

 

3am    1.27ml XD

7am    1.27ml XD, 5mg L

11am  1.27ml XD, 5mg L

3pm    1.27ml XD, 5mg L

7pm    1.27ml XD, 5mg L

11pm  1.27ml XD, 5mg L

 

The L is much more insensitive to dose time so you could combine the 7am, 11am, and maybe even the 3pm doses.  Then also combine the 7pm and 11pm doses.  But since you are dosing 6x anyway I thought it might be easier to just pop a 5mg cap with every X dose.

 

There are many ways to tweak this.  I believe in keeping blood levels as even as possible around the clock so I am not big on bigger doses at night for sleep and I don't like to see people stray too far from even dosing.  At the same time we don't want to spend all day dosing so we want to find the fewest number of doses that work.

[[ga...]]

 

 

I guess I'm not seeing why you would take six doses a day yet only dose X five times.  If you are dosing 6x any way, why not dose X six times?

 

I understand not wanting to break open the L capsules until you are ready to liquify them and taper them.  What you might do is take one with each dose and skip one dose, like the 3am dose.  So you could dose something like this...

 

3am    1.27ml XD

7am    1.27ml XD, 5mg L

11am  1.27ml XD, 5mg L

3pm    1.27ml XD, 5mg L

7pm    1.27ml XD, 5mg L

11pm  1.27ml XD, 5mg L

 

The L is much more insensitive to dose time so you could combine the 7am, 11am, and maybe even the 3pm doses.  Then also combine the 7pm and 11pm doses.  But since you are dosing 6x anyway I thought it might be easier to just pop a 5mg cap with every X dose.

 

There are many ways to tweak this.  I believe in keeping blood levels as even as possible around the clock so I am not big on bigger doses at night for sleep and I don't like to see people stray too far from even dosing.  At the same time we don't want to spend all day dosing so we want to find the fewest number of doses that work.

 

OK, I see where this is going. I was actually trying to reduce my dosing of X because it is so annoying and discouraging to have my day revolve around dosing. I have the X down to 5 times now (thanks to the L), so how about I do this? My son and I made this attempt at dividing the day into 5 equal parts:

2:50AM   

7:40AM

12:20PM

5:10PM

10:00PM

 

Each would be 5L and 1.52XD.

 

My main concern with this is actually take two doses, one liquid and one pill, in the middle of the night. I will have to figure out how to do that. I have trouble now with opening the bottle of XD and dropping the cap and losing it. But I can always find it in the morning. If I drop the pill…I am just toast. These things are tiny. I will not even remember in the morning that I lost the pill and will just miss the dose. Or I will freak out, get up, turn on the light, stumble around, try to find it, maybe go try to find the full bottle, and take some random amount.

 

Perhaps I ought to start the dreaded dissolving and dissolve the 2:50AM L and mix it with the 2:50AM X together in one bottle? The X is intensol with water, salt, and propylene glycol. Can I mix an alcohol-based dilution with that? I remember the big discussion about diluting with PG and there was no info on Librium's solubility in PG.

 

Or maybe I should just take 10mg L at bedtime and skip the middle of the night? Which option would be less risky?

 

Maybe I should go onto the titration board with the question about diluting and mixing 2 different meds? Can't remember who had the discussion about diluting on this thread, but a lot of the regular gurus are not on here much any more. 

[[Ma...]]

SG,

 

I am not sure what to do. My stomach has been really bad for over a week and a half now. I am on the bland diet, but it doesn't seem to be helping much. I don't understand it. It also has been affecting my sleep because it wakes me up because I am nauseous and in pain. It is by far the worst in the am.  I stopped taking my TCM formula early Sun evening. It is helping some of my sxs, but I stopped in case it is bothering my stomach. I also took a homeopathic remedy last night and that helped some. This is the least nauseous I have been in the morning all week. Also although I didn't get the sleep I need, I got a lot more than I have all week. I also took a zofran and that helped some. I am still nauseous. Besides that I have been fine. I have no idea what why stomach is like this. This is the worst it has been while tapering. It was bad for about a week while MTing, but this is worse. I am not sure if I should push the c/o back from tomorrow to Sun. I see my acupuncturist tomorrow. I want to get his opinion as well. He has told me in the past that a cut was too big, when he thought I was ready to cut etc. He is benzo wise. Also I am sure he will do Acupunture and herbs to help my stomach. I want to start the c/o ASAP, but I don't want to start if it is too much for my stomach and sleep deprived body. Also the longer I wait the less K I have and the more time before I can cut. I have been completely stable for two weeks besides my stomach and lack of sleep due to my stomach.

 

XO Maya

[[...]]

OK, I see where this is going. I was actually trying to reduce my dosing of X because it is so annoying and discouraging to have my day revolve around dosing. I have the X down to 5 times now (thanks to the L), so how about I do this? My son and I made this attempt at dividing the day into 5 equal parts:

2:50AM   

7:40AM

12:20PM

5:10PM

10:00PM

 

Each would be 5L and 1.52XD.

 

My main concern with this is actually take two doses, one liquid and one pill, in the middle of the night. I will have to figure out how to do that. I have trouble now with opening the bottle of XD and dropping the cap and losing it. But I can always find it in the morning. If I drop the pill…I am just toast. These things are tiny. I will not even remember in the morning that I lost the pill and will just miss the dose. Or I will freak out, get up, turn on the light, stumble around, try to find it, maybe go try to find the full bottle, and take some random amount.

 

Perhaps I ought to start the dreaded dissolving and dissolve the 2:50AM L and mix it with the 2:50AM X together in one bottle? The X is intensol with water, salt, and propylene glycol. Can I mix an alcohol-based dilution with that? I remember the big discussion about diluting with PG and there was no info on Librium's solubility in PG.

 

Or maybe I should just take 10mg L at bedtime and skip the middle of the night? Which option would be less risky?

 

Maybe I should go onto the titration board with the question about diluting and mixing 2 different meds? Can't remember who had the discussion about diluting on this thread, but a lot of the regular gurus are not on here much any more. 

 

Mixing the X and L in the same liquid is a very creative way to simplify dosing and I'll bet it would work as all these benzos seem to dissolve in alcohol and PG, and these liquids can be diluted with water.  But...I would not go there.  There is too much we don't know and there always seems to be something we didn't think of or were not aware of...Murphy's Law.  So, I'd steer clear of that one without more research and thought.  Besides, if you mixed both benzos in the same liquid you will be tapering X all the way to zero.  I'd do what you suggested...take 10mg L at bedtime and call it good.  The L will likely do fine that way.

 

I will say this though...if your 3am X liquid dose is already measured you could then break open the L capsule and dump it in to simplify night dosing.  No matter what happens your entire night dose is in the bottle.  Then in the morning just rinse and drink the rinse.  I think that would work fine.

[[Ma...]]

Hello all.

I just wanted to drop by and say hello.

Lots of action going on here with schedules and cross overs.

Wishing you all good luck.

 

So,it's been about 3 weeks since the jump. And I certainly don't feel worse than during most of my taper.

The waves seem shorter lived. Whereas I used to be hit and could linger for days, it now see,s to come in hourly outbursts.

My most lingering symptom is vertigo and tinnitus. But it is much less .

I also don't feel that when a panic sets in, it will stay for the rest of the day. It doesn't. It's all in shorter outbursts and I can feel my mind being much clearer and things are more in perspective .

 

It's going to happen for everyone here. 

 

I know many of you still have quite the road ahead. But time will pass. And try being as gentle on yourself as you can .

It's so worth it.

 

Wishing you all the very best. 

Moo,

Thank you! I needed to hear this right now. Very inspiring! I am glad you are doing so well and I know it will continue to get better and better for you!

 

XO Maya 

[[...]]

SG,

 

I am not sure what to do. My stomach has been really bad for over a week and a half now. I am on the bland diet, but it doesn't seem to be helping much. I don't understand it. It also has been affecting my sleep because it wakes me up because I am nauseous and in pain. It is by far the worst in the am.  I stopped taking my TCM formula early Sun evening. It is helping some of my sxs, but I stopped in case it is bothering my stomach. I also took a homeopathic remedy last night and that helped some. This is the least nauseous I have been in the morning all week. Also although I didn't get the sleep I need, I got a lot more than I have all week. I also took a zofran and that helped some. I am still nauseous. Besides that I have been fine. I have no idea what why stomach is like this. This is the worst it has been while tapering. It was bad for about a week while MTing, but this is worse. I am not sure if I should push the c/o back from tomorrow to Sun. I see my acupuncturist tomorrow. I want to get his opinion as well. He has told me in the past that a cut was too big, when he thought I was ready to cut etc. He is benzo wise. Also I am sure he will do Acupunture and herbs to help my stomach. I want to start the c/o ASAP, but I don't want to start if it is too much for my stomach and sleep deprived body. Also the longer I wait the less K I have and the more time before I can cut. I have been completely stable for two weeks besides my stomach and lack of sleep due to my stomach.

 

XO Maya

 

Well, crossing is not cutting, but it can produce temporary shortages when waiting for the V to build with each swap.  It's hard to know what to do.  Making smaller swaps at a time would help.

[[Ma...]]

SG,

I know it's not cutting, but it is an adjustment to the body. I don't know if it would matter that I am having stomach problems. The 3 smaller cuts I made last week, they didn't make my stomach better or worse. They didn't affect me. The plan was to start with a smaller swap and go from there. I was not willing to swap every day. I know you think it's the best way, but I think it will confuse my body. My body did not like daily cuts. My concern is if I should start the c/o while feeling sick? Today is better, but not good. I am hoping it keeps getting better now. I don't know why my stomach is being so bad or how to make it better. I am trying the new homeopathic remedy, zofran, and I will get Acupunture and new herbs tomorrow. I don't know if it is better to push through it or wait. I am hoping V is kinder to my stomach. It has been my only issue these past 2 weeks. Then I was thinking of cutting tomorrow and starting the c/o Sun, but I am afraid that might upset my stomach more.

[[...]]

IDK what you should do.  If you think holding will help I'd hold, otherwise I'd make small exchanges and see how it goes.

[[ga...]]

OK, I see where this is going. I was actually trying to reduce my dosing of X because it is so annoying and discouraging to have my day revolve around dosing. I have the X down to 5 times now (thanks to the L), so how about I do this? My son and I made this attempt at dividing the day into 5 equal parts:

2:50AM   

7:40AM

12:20PM

5:10PM

10:00PM

 

Each would be 5L and 1.52XD.

 

My main concern with this is actually take two doses, one liquid and one pill, in the middle of the night. I will have to figure out how to do that. I have trouble now with opening the bottle of XD and dropping the cap and losing it. But I can always find it in the morning. If I drop the pill…I am just toast. These things are tiny. I will not even remember in the morning that I lost the pill and will just miss the dose. Or I will freak out, get up, turn on the light, stumble around, try to find it, maybe go try to find the full bottle, and take some random amount.

 

Perhaps I ought to start the dreaded dissolving and dissolve the 2:50AM L and mix it with the 2:50AM X together in one bottle? The X is intensol with water, salt, and propylene glycol. Can I mix an alcohol-based dilution with that? I remember the big discussion about diluting with PG and there was no info on Librium's solubility in PG.

 

Or maybe I should just take 10mg L at bedtime and skip the middle of the night? Which option would be less risky?

 

Maybe I should go onto the titration board with the question about diluting and mixing 2 different meds? Can't remember who had the discussion about diluting on this thread, but a lot of the regular gurus are not on here much any more. 

 

Mixing the X and L in the same liquid is a very creative way to simplify dosing and I'll bet it would work as all these benzos seem to dissolve in alcohol and PG, and these liquids can be diluted with water.  But...I would not go there.  There is too much we don't know and there always seems to be something we didn't think of or were not aware of...Murphy's Law.  So, I'd steer clear of that one without more research and thought.  Besides, if you mixed both benzos in the same liquid you will be tapering X all the way to zero.  I'd do what you suggested...take 10mg L at bedtime and call it good.  The L will likely do fine that way.

 

I will say this though...if your 3am X liquid dose is already measured you could then break open the L capsule and dump it in to simplify night dosing.  No matter what happens your entire night dose is in the bottle.  Then in the morning just rinse and drink the rinse.  I think that would work fine.

 

These are some great ideas! I will have to think this over. I agree about Murphy's Law. And I don't want to be the guinea pig who is the first to try something!

 

I just thought of another option, I could have two liquids by my bed. Oh wait, bad plan. If I drink one only and it happens to be the L, then I have missed my X. The X is the one that matters to keep the most even, right? It's probably best to stick with one drink in the night and so what if I drop the cap somewhere. I actually do keep a syringe of water next to my bottle and use it to rinse and drink again in the middle of the night. It's all on my nightstand so I just sit up, drink, rinse, drink, and lie back down. The bottles, syringes, caps are sometimes in odd places in the morning, but the X is in me!

 

Anne mentioned on another thread that she takers her lorazepam whenever she wakes up and can be off by an hour or two and does OK. I was relieved to hear that, given how my middle of the night X is really somewhere between 2 and 4 AM. Sometimes even 5 AM. That's why I have been try to taper it away and only dose the X 4 times again like I did when I started. Maybe re-distributing the X to 4 doses will be the next thing I try, but when I am lower on X and the L is my main med.

[[ga...]]

Maya, fill me in. Did these stomach problems start while you were tapering and how long have they been going on?

 

I have had gut issues hit me out of the blue but they usually don't last for weeks. And I have other health issues that make my guts sensitive so the taper stirs that up. Is that your situation, too?

 

Gard