Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

builder, just curious if you have any personal opinion about this company, point of return?

  I am very skeptical about any of these "recovery/rehab/detox centers.  I have zero knowledge about pointofreturn, but their  website suggests to ME that its a scam.

 

  I don't know much about them, but if they are out there pedaling supplements and promising results it is probably a shameful scam.  Taking advantage of desperate people.

[[...]]

SG,

You think 1mg will take 40 days? If I end up crossing my whole dose would it take 3x as long? I am not willing to change my dose every day. I see where that makes sense, but my body does not respond well to daily changes. I would do 2x a week. 3x at the most if 2x went ok.

 

I dose K 6x. I don't think I would need to dose V that many times. I am hoping to be able to c/o at least the majority of my dose. I don't want to dose so much. Also my body gets confused if I change too many doses at once. I cut at most two doses at once now. I prefer one. It just works better for me. I try to do changes like evening doses, adding doses etc. gradually because it works better for me. I will start the c/o Wed. Should I maybe change one or two doses Wed and then do another change Sat? I am feeling confused by the c/o. I have so many doses. I hate it! I know I need to try it, but I am nervous. I will cut 2.5% tomorrow. I know that will go fine. That will put my dose at like 2.75mg.  I am really hoping the c/o works for me. I don't have any plans or appts I can't cancel in the near future. I will do the c/o in the way that is best. Thanks so much! I would be a complete wreck without you!

 

XO Maya

 

I just picked 40 days as a general example and it does not necessarily apply to your case.  I don't think crossing time depends too much on the dose you are on.  Big doses can be crossed in the same time as smaller doses.  I think crossing time is more sensitive to the "percent" of whatever dose you are on.  So if you only cross 30 or 50% of your dose it will go that much more quickly.

 

A suggestion would be to swap 5% at a time, then go by how you feel as to when to swap the next 5%.  It will probably work out to a few days.  So if your starting dose is 2.75mg K, 5% of that is .138mg.  Let's round that up to .150mg to make the numbers easier.  If you have .5mg pills it is ~.050g on the scale.  If you have 1mg pills it is ~.025g.  Divide these grams up between your six doses.  If you have .5mg pills reducing each dose by .008g at each swap is about right.  If you have 1mg pills .004g would be about right.  I don't remember which pills you have.

 

On the Valium side the V pills would be added in by increasing 20X whatever the K decrease was.  So if you dropped out .150mg K you'd add in 3mg V.  Divide that evenly among however many V doses you have.

[[Sh...]]

builder, just curious if you have any personal opinion about this company, point of return?

  I am very skeptical about any of these "recovery/rehab/detox centers.  I have zero knowledge about pointofreturn, but their  website suggests to ME that its a scam.

 

  I don't know much about them, but if they are out there pedaling supplements and promising results it is probably a shameful scam.  Taking advantage of desperate people.

 

Agree with SG.  Shaani

[[ga...]]

Hi friends, I have a question that I will post on the main thread but I also wanted to post it here to since this thread is the one I spend more time on. I know we have GABA receptors all over our bodies, mostly in the brain but they are also in multiple places. I am wondering about the gut, intestines to be exact. Has anybody ever experienced colitis or extreme intestinal cramping with diarrhea and blood? I'm sorry to be gross about this and prolly TMI. I have had three bouts of this months apart and had a diagnostic colonoscopy yesterday which was normal. I am suspecting it may have to do with tapering off Xanax. Any thoughts or experience to share? Again I apologize. thanks, Rose

  The gut is a high density GABA receptor region.

"GABA receptors for Benzodiazepines and Sleeping Pills are also located in the gut and depress gastrointestinal movement, which can cause constipation. But the continued use of medications that target GABA also increase the level of stress on the body. And in many ways, the connection between stress and the gut may be the most visible brain-gut connection.  Chronic stress can result in indigestion, ulcers and a host of uncomfortable symptoms, including colon spasms. This may explain why the gut naturally produces benzodiazepines, to keep the natural state of calm that is necessary for proper functioning."

https://www.pointofreturn.com/gut_health.html

 

builder, just curious if you have any personal opinion about this company, point of return?

  I am very skeptical about any of these "recovery/rehab/detox centers.  I have zero knowledge about pointofreturn, but their  website suggests to ME that its a scam.

 

I was actually reluctant to post the above quote specifically because of the source.  But the presentation of the gut/GABA relationship in that article was concise, and mirrors much other research on that topic.  So in spite of the questionable source, I believe the information to be correct.

 

I kind of thought you were going to say that. Not that I could afford such an expensive program anyway!

[[ga...]]

builder, just curious if you have any personal opinion about this company, point of return?

  I am very skeptical about any of these "recovery/rehab/detox centers.  I have zero knowledge about pointofreturn, but their  website suggests to ME that its a scam.

 

  I don't know much about them, but if they are out there pedaling supplements and promising results it is probably a shameful scam.  Taking advantage of desperate people.

 

Sad, but true.

[[ga...]]

 

I don't know much about them, but if they are out there pedaling supplements and promising results it is probably a shameful scam.  Taking advantage of desperate people.

 

Agree with SG.  Shaani

 

Hi, Shaani. Good to hear from you. Hope you are doing well. I love it when you post because your avatar is so adorable and brightens up the thread!

[[sh...]]

I have a question for people who are tapering and take two doses per day. I started my liquid Valium taper with 2MG in the morning and 3MG at night. In slow increments I've worked the morning dose down to 1.1MG in the morning and 3MG in the evening. I'm starting to think that I should be taking away my 10% from that evening dose as I'm feeling more anxious in the morning. What's worked for other people to keep this in balance? I'm a little worried about whether it would be okay to do something like, say, balance things out at 2 and 2 when I get to 4MG. Thoughts? Experiences with this, pill or liquid?

 

I believe it is best to keep the doses the same.  that way you keep a steady dose of the meds in your system throughout the day.  This will eliminate any interdose stuff.  So I vote for balancing it out to 2 and 2.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

[[Ma...]]

 

 

I just picked 40 days as a general example and it does not necessarily apply to your case.  I don't think crossing time depends too much on the dose you are on.  Big doses can be crossed in the same time as smaller doses.  I think crossing time is more sensitive to the "percent" of whatever dose you are on.  So if you only cross 30 or 50% of your dose it will go that much more quickly.

 

A suggestion would be to swap 5% at a time, then go by how you feel as to when to swap the next 5%.  It will probably work out to a few days.  So if your starting dose is 2.75mg K, 5% of that is .138mg.  Let's round that up to .150mg to make the numbers easier.  If you have .5mg pills it is ~.050g on the scale.  If you have 1mg pills it is ~.025g.  Divide these grams up between your six doses.  If you have .5mg pills reducing each dose by .008g at each swap is about right.  If you have 1mg pills .004g would be about right.  I don't remember which pills you have.

 

On the Valium side the V pills would be added in by increasing 20X whatever the K decrease was.  So if you dropped out .150mg K you'd add in 3mg V.  Divide that evenly among however many V doses you have.

I guess since I don't have a set amount, I will just start out like I am c/o 1mg. Obviously, I want to c/o as much as I can tolerate, but be careful not to c/o more than that. It still is very confusing to me on how and when I will know. I guess I will just see.

 

What you are suggestions to me makes sense. Unfortunately, I am getting lower on .5mg pills. As of Monday I will have 28 .5mg pills and some pieces of .5mg pills (not including today or tomorrow's pills). I have 200 1mg pills and a few pieces. If my pdoc was on board with even a slow c/o I could get more .5mg pills. He will let me taper how ever I want, except he will only prescribe me one benzo at a time...he was clear on that. I am trying to find a new pdoc, but I do not have confidence I will find one who will prescribe me K and V.

 

I also can't change more than two doses at most within a couple days. My body doesn't react well when I change more than two a day. I know it seems strange to you, but that is how my body reacts. I cut from one, two at the most. Today I cut from one dose, as I did Wed, and Sun.

 

Also my V pills are 10mg pills. I would guess since I will metabolize V faster than most, I will probably dose 3x a day. Maybe even 4. I am feeling stressed about the c/o, all the doses, so much cutting, and cutting of bigger mg pills. I am also feeling tired, foggy, and nauseous. I think I am making things out to be harder than they are. On Wed I am starting my c/o. I would swap .15mg of K for 3mg of V? Maybe swap from my first and last dose? I don't like cutting bigger mg pills, but I have no choice.

[Guest [Ma...]]

Buddies, I need your thoughts.

 

I am suffering extreme nerve and muscular pain rendering me non-functional and bed ridden many days. I'm considering a cross to V. Again.

I accept that there may be a modest increase in my bilirubin due to Gilberts syndrome, but I am running out of choices. I need to remain functional to raise my family.

Maya, I share your hesitation and necessity in crossing. We can lean on one another.

 

Experienced crossing BB's, how would you suggest I attempt to cross .53 mg X?  I am dosing X, 6 times a day (.0899 capsules) plus 2 additional doses of V (3 mg at 10:00 pm and 2 mg 6:00 am).

I'm a rapid metabolizer for valium enzyme CYP2C19, but normal for CYP34A.

I will likely require 3 dosages of V.

 

Appreciate your thoughts, Buddies. I'm really struggling.

 

Marija

 

[[ga...]]

 

 

I just picked 40 days as a general example and it does not necessarily apply to your case.  I don't think crossing time depends too much on the dose you are on.  Big doses can be crossed in the same time as smaller doses.  I think crossing time is more sensitive to the "percent" of whatever dose you are on.  So if you only cross 30 or 50% of your dose it will go that much more quickly.

 

A suggestion would be to swap 5% at a time, then go by how you feel as to when to swap the next 5%.  It will probably work out to a few days.  So if your starting dose is 2.75mg K, 5% of that is .138mg.  Let's round that up to .150mg to make the numbers easier.  If you have .5mg pills it is ~.050g on the scale.  If you have 1mg pills it is ~.025g.  Divide these grams up between your six doses.  If you have .5mg pills reducing each dose by .008g at each swap is about right.  If you have 1mg pills .004g would be about right.  I don't remember which pills you have.

 

On the Valium side the V pills would be added in by increasing 20X whatever the K decrease was.  So if you dropped out .150mg K you'd add in 3mg V.  Divide that evenly among however many V doses you have.

I guess since I don't have a set amount, I will just start out like I am c/o 1mg. Obviously, I want to c/o as much as I can tolerate, but be careful not to c/o more than that. It still is very confusing to me on how and when I will know. I guess I will just see.

 

What you are suggestions to me makes sense. Unfortunately, I am getting lower on .5mg pills. As of Monday I will have 28 .5mg pills and some pieces of .5mg pills (not including today or tomorrow's pills). I have 200 1mg pills and a few pieces. If my pdoc was on board with even a slow c/o I could get more .5mg pills. He will let me taper how ever I want, except he will only prescribe me one benzo at a time...he was clear on that. I am trying to find a new pdoc, but I do not have confidence I will find one who will prescribe me K and V.

 

I also can't change more than two doses at most within a couple days. My body doesn't react well when I change more than two a day. I know it seems strange to you, but that is how my body reacts. I cut from one, two at the most. Today I cut from one dose, as I did Wed, and Sun.

 

Also my V pills are 10mg pills. I would guess since I will metabolize V faster than most, I will probably dose 3x a day. Maybe even 4. I am feeling stressed about the c/o, all the doses, so much cutting, and cutting of bigger mg pills. I am also feeling tired, foggy, and nauseous. I think I am making things out to be harder than they are. On Wed I am starting my c/o. I would swap .15mg of K for 3mg of V? Maybe swap from my first and last dose? I don't like cutting bigger mg pills, but I have no choice.

 

Maya, I sympathize with you on the pill cutting! Do you have a scale? Is there somebody who can help you cut up the pills? My son used to cut mine for me, a week at a time, and sort them into little pill containers.

 

I am a fast metabolizer and take my L 3 times/day. I'm still taking the L as whole capsules and tapering the liquid X. I was amazed at how much more even I felt half crossed over to L, and I don't even take my doses exactly evenly.

 

I stopped crossing when I felt I had enough windows to function and hold onto hope. Even though the cross was bumpy, I could tell very quickly that I was getting better overall. I just had to tolerate some sedation and depression which eased up after maybe a week. Then I would do another small cross. At half crossed I felt I had gone far enough. Listen to your body. You can do this! 

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

Buddies, I need your thoughts.

 

I am suffering extreme nerve and muscular pain rendering me non-functional and bed ridden many days. I'm considering a cross to V. Again.

I accept that there may be a modest increase in my bilirubin due to Gilberts syndrome, but I am running out of choices. I need to remain functional to raise my family.

Maya, I share your hesitation and necessity in crossing. We can lean on one another.

 

Experienced crossing BB's, how would you suggest I attempt to cross .53 mg X?  I am dosing X, 6 times a day (.0899 capsules) plus 2 additional doses of V (3 mg at 10:00 pm and 2 mg 6:00 am).

I'm a rapid metabolizer for valium enzyme CYP2C19, but normal for CYP34A.

I will likely require 3 dosages of V.

 

Appreciate your thoughts, Buddies. I'm really struggling.

 

Marija

 

Hang in there, Marija! I was dosing X 6 times a day and feeling awful when I started my cross. After looking at Ashton's charts, I decided to substitute one half of one dose at a time per week.

 

I'm an ultra-rapid 2C19, too. If you are normal for 3A4, would your doctor consider Librium? It is 3A4. I was never tested for 3A4, but since I was already on X, which is 3A4, I figured, what the heck. A slow 3A4 has got to be better than a fast 3A4!

 

I think L only comes in capsules, though, so you have to be willing to dilute or take the capsules apart. I plan to dilute when I get to that bridge. That is so far away, I'm not even thinking about it!

 

Gard

 

http://www.ct.gov/dcf/lib/dcf/ccmu/pdf/cyp_chart_nov_2013.pdf

[Guest [Ma...]]

Buddies, I need your thoughts.

 

I am suffering extreme nerve and muscular pain rendering me non-functional and bed ridden many days. I'm considering a cross to V. Again.

I accept that there may be a modest increase in my bilirubin due to Gilberts syndrome, but I am running out of choices. I need to remain functional to raise my family.

Maya, I share your hesitation and necessity in crossing. We can lean on one another.

 

Experienced crossing BB's, how would you suggest I attempt to cross .53 mg X?  I am dosing X, 6 times a day (.0899 capsules) plus 2 additional doses of V (3 mg at 10:00 pm and 2 mg 6:00 am).

I'm a rapid metabolizer for valium enzyme CYP2C19, but normal for CYP34A.

I will likely require 3 dosages of V.

 

Appreciate your thoughts, Buddies. I'm really struggling.

 

Marija

 

Hang in there, Marija! I was dosing X 6 times a day and feeling awful when I started my cross. After looking at Ashton's charts, I decided to substitute one half of one dose at a time per week.

 

I'm an ultra-rapid 2C19, too. If you are normal for 34A, would your doctor consider Librium? It is 3A4. I was never tested for 3A4, but since I was already on X, which is 3A4, I figured, what the heck. A slow 3A4 has got to be better than a fast 3A4!

 

I think L only comes in capsules, though, so you have to be willing to dilute or take the capsules apart. I plan to dilute when I get to that bridge. That is so far away, I'm not even thinking about it!

 

Gard

 

http://www.ct.gov/dcf/lib/dcf/ccmu/pdf/cyp_chart_nov_2013.pdf

 

Hi Gardener!

We are in the same weeds!!

 

Thanks for your suggestions. I haven't discussed Librium with my Pdoc, but will do so at my next appointment. For now, I will try substituting one of my X dosages (1/2 of .0899) with 1.5 mg of V?

 

Where I really run into trouble is my overnight dosing of X. I dose at 10:00 pm and then again at 6:30. That's simply too long for my body now that I'm at .53 mg, and my evening V dose not cover the X withdrawal. So complicated with 2 benzos on board!

 

How are you feeling, Gard?

 

Marija

[[...]]

 

 

I just picked 40 days as a general example and it does not necessarily apply to your case.  I don't think crossing time depends too much on the dose you are on.  Big doses can be crossed in the same time as smaller doses.  I think crossing time is more sensitive to the "percent" of whatever dose you are on.  So if you only cross 30 or 50% of your dose it will go that much more quickly.

 

A suggestion would be to swap 5% at a time, then go by how you feel as to when to swap the next 5%.  It will probably work out to a few days.  So if your starting dose is 2.75mg K, 5% of that is .138mg.  Let's round that up to .150mg to make the numbers easier.  If you have .5mg pills it is ~.050g on the scale.  If you have 1mg pills it is ~.025g.  Divide these grams up between your six doses.  If you have .5mg pills reducing each dose by .008g at each swap is about right.  If you have 1mg pills .004g would be about right.  I don't remember which pills you have.

 

On the Valium side the V pills would be added in by increasing 20X whatever the K decrease was.  So if you dropped out .150mg K you'd add in 3mg V.  Divide that evenly among however many V doses you have.

I guess since I don't have a set amount, I will just start out like I am c/o 1mg. Obviously, I want to c/o as much as I can tolerate, but be careful not to c/o more than that. It still is very confusing to me on how and when I will know. I guess I will just see.

 

What you are suggestions to me makes sense. Unfortunately, I am getting lower on .5mg pills. As of Monday I will have 28 .5mg pills and some pieces of .5mg pills (not including today or tomorrow's pills). I have 200 1mg pills and a few pieces. If my pdoc was on board with even a slow c/o I could get more .5mg pills. He will let me taper how ever I want, w he will only prescribe me one benzo at a time...he was clear on that. I am trying to find a new pdoc, but I do not have confidence I will find one who will prescribe me K and V.

 

I also can't change more than two doses at most within a couple days. My body doesn't react well when I change more than two a day. I know it seems strange to you, but that is how my body reacts. I cut from one, two at the most. Today I cut from one dose, as I did Wed, and Sun.

 

Also my V pills are 10mg pills. I would guess since I will metabolize V faster than most, I will probably dose 3x a day. Maybe even 4. I am feeling stressed about the c/o, all the doses, so much cutting, and cutting of bigger mg pills. I am also feeling tired, foggy, and nauseous. I think I am making things out to be harder than they are. On Wed I am starting my c/o. I would swap .15mg of K for 3mg of V? Maybe swap from my first and last dose? I don't like cutting bigger mg pills, but I have no choice.

 

I think .15mg will work well. If you don't want to do all the doses that is fine. Replace with 3mg V. Swap doses that are 12 hrs apart. You have three sets of two doses.

[[Ma...]]

Marija

I am so sorry you continue to suffer so much. We can definitely lean on each other! I will support you in any way I can. I hope you can c/o to V. I really am hoping things get easier for you! Let's stay in touch. Sending you lots of love!

 

Gardener,

 

I have been using a scale since the beginning of August. I am fine to cut the pills myself. I am just being a whiner. I just don't want to cut all those pills especially from bigger amount pills. I don't have a choice. Knowing me, I also would reweigh my pills if someone else cut them. L has the same half life as K, but it has the active metabolites. I would probably have to dose L 6 times a day. For that reason and the capsules is why I never considered it. Also my pdoc was reluctant about V. I doubt he would of prescribed L. I am so glad you are feeling so much better and you could tell right away. That makes me feel better. I'm glad your pdoc was ok with you being on two Benzos. My pdoc was especially against it because K and V have long half lives. Thank you so much! You are always so supportive and positive! 

 

SG,

I was thinking about it and I think I will start by crossing 2x a week one dose each cross. I know to you that doesn't sound like the best way, but I really feel it is what is best for me. My body gets confused by too many switches and by switching too many doses at once. Do you think that sounds ok? I guess I would switch .15mg of K from my last dose for 3mg of V. Then 3 days later c/o another .15mg k from my first dose. I guess I will have to weigh and get an average of my 10mg V pills. It will be frustrating cutting from them and my 1mg K pills, but I don't have a choice. I'm a bit confused right now. I am foggy. I am sure I will get the hang of it. I really want to do the c/o in the way that will work best. Thanks for all your help! I am sorry I am being so neurotic.

 

XO Maya

 

 

[[...]]

SG,

I was thinking about it and I think I will start by crossing 2x a week one dose each cross. I know to you that doesn't sound like the best way, but I really feel it is what is best for me. My body gets confused by too many switches and by switching too many doses at once. Do you think that sounds ok? I guess I would switch .15mg of K from my last dose for 3mg of V. Then 3 days later c/o another .15mg k from my first dose. I guess I will have to weigh and get an average of my 10mg V pills. It will be frustrating cutting from them and my 1mg K pills, but I don't have a choice. I'm a bit confused right now. I am foggy. I am sure I will get the hang of it. I really want to do the c/o in the way that will work best. Thanks for all your help! I am sorry I am being so neurotic.

 

XO Maya

 

You're right, I don't think it is best to swap from one dose at a time.  I also don't think it is best to do back to back doses.  I'd do them three doses apart.  These are advantages that are there to take for free.  But it won't be a deal-breaker either.  It will work and if that is what makes you most comfortable that is worth something too.

 

Yeah, with a partial cross you will need to file and weigh nine or 10 doses a day until the K is gone unless you work it so you are on full V pill doses, like 20mg or 40mg.

[[Ma...]]

SG,

I definitely don't feel comfortable making changes every day or switching more than two doses on the same day. I get why that makes sense. I just know that has not worked for me. My first and last dose are usually like 9 hours apart. My 1st and 5th dose are 12 hours apart. You would switch those two first? Also my first switch I will make Wed and that switch I don't want to change again until Sat. So I would do 3mg of V? I also am willing to adjust speed, percentage etc. of c/o as I go along, depending on how things are going. There are certain things I just don't feel comfortable with, especially at first. Also different things work for different people and I can be a bit complicated. I'm sorry if I seem to not be getting things. I am feeling foggy and tired. I need more sleep. Also all the doses makes it so much more confusing to me. I am still getting used to the six doses. I really appreciate you being patient and explaining everything to me!

 

I would definitely like to do a full c/o or at least 2mg of K, but you were right to say I should switch 1mg and see how I am feeling and then decide if I want to stop or keep going. It was stressing me out too much and I can't know for sure if I can handle so much V. Also I am having the issues with indecisiveness since tapering. I hate it! I know that I am probabky making a bigger deal out of it than it is, but it is a big deal to me. It also scares me a bit. I really don't want to weigh and cut 9-10 doses a day, but I will do what I have to. I would prefer to be on full V doses like 10mg, 30mg, 40mg or better yet all V.

 

Also the cutting every 3 days has really been working out for me. I don't think I will feel today's cut either. Today I cut like 3.1%.

 

 

 

[[...]]

SG,

I definitely don't feel comfortable making changes every day or switching more than two doses on the same day. I get why that makes sense. I just know that has not worked for me. My first and last dose are usually like 9 hours apart. My 1st and 5th dose are 12 hours apart. You would switch those two first? Also my first switch I will make Wed and that switch I don't want to change again until Sat. So I would do 3mg of V? I also am willing to adjust speed, percentage etc. of c/o as I go along, depending on how things are going. There are certain things I just don't feel comfortable with, especially at first. Also different things work for different people and I can be a bit complicated. I'm sorry if I seem to not be getting things. I am feeling foggy and tired. I need more sleep. Also all the doses makes it so much more confusing to me. I am still getting used to the six doses. I really appreciate you being patient and explaining everything to me!

 

I would definitely like to do a full c/o or at least 2mg of K, but you were right to say I should switch 1mg and see how I am feeling and then decide if I want to stop or keep going. It was stressing me out too much and I can't know for sure if I can handle so much V. Also I am having the issues with indecisiveness since tapering. I hate it! I know that I am probabky making a bigger deal out of it than it is, but it is a big deal to me. It also scares me a bit. I really don't want to weigh and cut 9-10 doses a day, but I will do what I have to. I would prefer to be on full V doses like 10mg, 30mg, 40mg or better yet all V.

 

Also the cutting every 3 days has really been working out for me. I don't think I will feel today's cut either. Today I cut like 3.1%.

 

Just amazing that you can cut that much and not feel it.  Keep riding it.

 

Yes, I'd do doses 1 and 5 if they are 12 hours apart.  And yes, swap .15mg K with 3mg V.  Stick with what you are comfortable with, but don't be afraid to try things.  Looks how the smaller cut worked out.

[[Ra...]]

Going to be attempting a liquid taper coming soon since nothing else seems to be tolerable so I figured I'd join this thread.  Some of you know of me some of you don't.  For those of you that do I thank you for all of the great info you have given me so far to get me to this point and I may need more as time goes by.  Will keep everyone posted!  :socool:

[[ga...]]

Buddies, I need your thoughts.

 

I am suffering extreme nerve and muscular pain rendering me non-functional and bed ridden many days. I'm considering a cross to V. Again.

I accept that there may be a modest increase in my bilirubin due to Gilberts syndrome, but I am running out of choices. I need to remain functional to raise my family.

Maya, I share your hesitation and necessity in crossing. We can lean on one another.

 

Experienced crossing BB's, how would you suggest I attempt to cross .53 mg X?  I am dosing X, 6 times a day (.0899 capsules) plus 2 additional doses of V (3 mg at 10:00 pm and 2 mg 6:00 am).

I'm a rapid metabolizer for valium enzyme CYP2C19, but normal for CYP34A.

I will likely require 3 dosages of V.

 

Appreciate your thoughts, Buddies. I'm really struggling.

 

Marija

 

Hang in there, Marija! I was dosing X 6 times a day and feeling awful when I started my cross. After looking at Ashton's charts, I decided to substitute one half of one dose at a time per week.

 

I'm an ultra-rapid 2C19, too. If you are normal for 34A, would your doctor consider Librium? It is 3A4. I was never tested for 3A4, but since I was already on X, which is 3A4, I figured, what the heck. A slow 3A4 has got to be better than a fast 3A4!

 

I think L only comes in capsules, though, so you have to be willing to dilute or take the capsules apart. I plan to dilute when I get to that bridge. That is so far away, I'm not even thinking about it!

 

Gard

 

http://www.ct.gov/dcf/lib/dcf/ccmu/pdf/cyp_chart_nov_2013.pdf

 

Hi Gardener!

We are in the same weeds!!

 

Thanks for your suggestions. I haven't discussed Librium with my Pdoc, but will do so at my next appointment. For now, I will try substituting one of my X dosages (1/2 of .0899) with 1.5 mg of V?

 

Where I really run into trouble is my overnight dosing of X. I dose at 10:00 pm and then again at 6:30. That's simply too long for my body now that I'm at .53 mg, and my evening V dose not cover the X withdrawal. So complicated with 2 benzos on board!

 

How are you feeling, Gard?

 

Marija

 

Yup, same weeds, for sure. I confess, I take my biggest dose of L (15mg) and zero X at bedtime and then I always wake up in the night anyway and take a tiny dose of X. Still wake up shaky, but not horrible. My daytime doses are 5mg L combined with smaller and smaller doses of X. Some day I'll have to start dissolving those darn L capsules, but for now I just get to dilute my X, which comes as a liquid.

 

Here's how my day looked a couple of weeks ago when I was quizzing SG about my crossover. The L is in black as mg and the X is in green as a 5% dilution. I circle the doses as I take them so I don't get lost and because it feels good to mark my progress.

 

http://jgardnerscollection.weebly.com/uploads/5/6/6/2/56621493/8816477_orig.jpg

 

At this point I decided I had too much L because my depression did not lift as it had with previous substitutions. So I have actually backed-stepped on my L since this card, and now both the 7AM and the 3PM are 5mg L. I then upped the 7PM X to reflect the 11AM X to compensate. That back step was very painful, but has finally settled back down to tolerable again. Waves and windows. Some waves pretty bad, but windows to remember and hang onto.

 

Had a glorious window the other day and drove on the freeway! First time in ages. It was a wide-open freeway with little traffic through beautiful countryside, so that helped. I wanted to go to a certain delicious fudge shop that makes fresh fudge every day to buy some fudge and put it in the freezer for Christmas. Mission accomplished. Felt awful and exhausted afterwards, but it was worth it!

 

Have you seen the Ashton equivalency charts? I'll bet one of the gurus can tell you how to substitute. My kids and I worked out my formula of how much dilution is how much L. I don't trust myself to do that for other people! Trust the gurus for math. You know, the guys with the working brains!

 

Wishing you a window-ful day!

 

Gard

[[Ma...]]

SG,

I'm very please with how the smaller cuts have been going. This will be my last cut for at least a month, I am assuming. I start the c/o Wed, so I don't think that would allow me to cut again. Right?

 

Ok, I will start with doses one and five then. I am always willing to try new things or adjust. Most of all I listen to my body. When I have done things every day, like MT my body didn't like it. When I have changed all my doses in one day either by evening them or cutting them all, it has not liked it. When I add a dose, it takes my body a couple days to adjust even though it will be better in the long run. I find a balance between trying something new and trying something that might be too much. I have made that mistake before. I know I am being a whiner, but I don't want to cut all these pills. I have just been taking .5mg pills instead of cutting as much as I can since I started dosing 6x a day. I hate dosing so many times and cutting so many pills. I will stop complaining. I will add 3mg of V for .15mg of K on Wed and go from there, with your help hopefully. I don't know how you put up with me  Thank you so much!!!

 

XO Maya

[[ga...]]

 

Gardener,

 

I have been using a scale since the beginning of August. I am fine to cut the pills myself. I am just being a whiner. I just don't want to cut all those pills especially from bigger amount pills. I don't have a choice. Knowing me, I also would reweigh my pills if someone else cut them. L has the same half life as K, but it has the active metabolites. I would probably have to dose L 6 times a day. For that reason and the capsules is why I never considered it. Also my pdoc was reluctant about V. I doubt he would of prescribed L. I am so glad you are feeling so much better and you could tell right away. That makes me feel better. I'm glad your pdoc was ok with you being on two Benzos. My pdoc was especially against it because K and V have long half lives. Thank you so much! You are always so supportive and positive! 

 

XO Maya

 

You have my total sympathy on pill cutting! I'm very glad you have a scale.

 

L is considered old-fashioned and used mostly in detox these days. My primary doc thought L was an odd choice. Luckily I have a very outside-the-box psychiatrist now to unmess this mess that the psych nurse got me into.

 

I think I could feel the symptoms decreasing within a couple of days of my first tiny cross. I didn't feel terrific, but definitely less bad. And I really felt bad at the time to motivate me to cross! So I kept going! Now, half crossed, I have actual windows and low-anxiety times that I can distract from as well as some awful waves. Having windows makes this all more bearable.

 

I pray you get some relief soon. Since you are being slow and careful, I can't imagine why this would backfire on you. (Says the Prines of Paranoia who was certain it was gong to backfire on her until she actually tried it! )

 

Gard

 

[[Sh...]]

 

I don't know much about them, but if they are out there pedaling supplements and promising results it is probably a shameful scam.  Taking advantage of desperate people.

 

Agree with SG.  Shaani

 

Hi, Shaani. Good to hear from you. Hope you are doing well. I love it when you post because your avatar is so adorable and brightens up the thread!

 

Gard... Thanks for the kind words.  I am going Slower than I would like.  Still, I am going in the right direction.  HUGE HUGS TO YOU!  I think of you and Jeff (Ultra) often even if I do not post often.  Still at about .925mg to .92mg  Someday I will be below .90mg and can say I have cut 10%.  WOO HOO! 

 

The SX are tolerable, but sometimes wearing.  Insomnia some nights is yucky.  I am traveling for business this coming week so I hope I can sleep.  No cutting again until after the trip. 

 

Hang tough sweet lady!

 

Shaani

 

 

[[ga...]]

Going to be attempting a liquid taper coming soon since nothing else seems to be tolerable so I figured I'd join this thread.  Some of you know of me some of you don't.  For those of you that do I thank you for all of the great info you have given me so far to get me to this point and I may need more as time goes by.  Will keep everyone posted!  :socool:

 

Hi Raven and welcome! You are in the right place for making sure you dilute and figure your daily cuts correctly. Not from me, though. I am the Cross-over Queen and the Princess of Paranoia on here, but definitely not a Math and Dilution Guru! I would be a total basket case from screwing up my taper if not for our Math and Dilution Gurus. You'll know soon who they are; just ask an MT question and if you get a sensible answer, you've found one of them!

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

 

I don't know much about them, but if they are out there pedaling supplements and promising results it is probably a shameful scam.  Taking advantage of desperate people.

 

Agree with SG.  Shaani

 

Hi, Shaani. Good to hear from you. Hope you are doing well. I love it when you post because your avatar is so adorable and brightens up the thread!

 

Gard... Thanks for the kind words.  I am going Slower than I would like.  Still, I am going in the right direction.  HUGE HUGS TO YOU!  I think of you and Jeff (Ultra) often even if I do not post often.  Still at about .925mg to .92mg  Someday I will be below .90mg and can say I have cut 10%.  WOO HOO! 

 

The SX are tolerable, but sometimes wearing.  Insomnia some nights is yucky.  I am traveling for business this coming week so I hope I can sleep.  No cutting again until after the trip. 

 

Hang tough sweet lady!

 

Shaani

 

Shaani, I am at .90 Xanax equivalency right now! We are very close together. I was cutting 5%/month and tried a little faster this week. It had its rough spots but was tolerable so am going to try to keep that up for a few weeks. I'm also wishing I could go as fast as some people, but fast just won't work for me either. I'll bet we get to the finish line pretty close together! We will have a big cyber party!

 

I've been wondering how Jeff has been doing, too. I kind of post in streaks and then take breaks when I need to. But I scroll through pretty often to check up on people.

 

I'm glad your symptoms are at least tolerable. I guess that's pretty good on his board. The insomnia is really rough, though. Good idea to stop cutting for your trip. Anne goes very slowly, too, because of work demands. We all just do what needs to be done and we will all get to the finish line. These benzos are not going to beat us!   

[[Ra...]]

Going to be attempting a liquid taper coming soon since nothing else seems to be tolerable so I figured I'd join this thread.  Some of you know of me some of you don't.  For those of you that do I thank you for all of the great info you have given me so far to get me to this point and I may need more as time goes by.  Will keep everyone posted!  :socool:

 

Hi Raven and welcome! You are in the right place for making sure you dilute and figure your daily cuts correctly. Not from me, though. I am the Cross-over Queen and the Princess of Paranoia on here, but definitely not a Math and Dilution Guru! I would be a total basket case from screwing up my taper if not for our Math and Dilution Gurus. You'll know soon who whey are; just ask an MT question and if you get a sensible answer, you've found one of them!

 

Gard

 

Thank you Gardner I am relying on spreadsheets for that so I can see where I'm at and don't have to think too much although I'm sure I'll be able to think clearer once I start tapering ..  However I know sg57 is awesome