Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Sy...]]

Hi All, it has been awhile but I wanted to check in briefly. I just passed a 60% reduction on a daily microtaper. I am starting to feel it, so may have to slow down a bit. Of course, stress at work does not help. Having some anxiety, some difficulty sleeping, and some digestive upset. But, all in all, I'm okay. As I have read here before, nothing, no symptom or event, is as important as getting off the benzos! If all goes well I am on track to be benzo-free in mid-December.

To Jeff, I wanted to say that you have been on my mind since the 16th, and I am SO GLAD that you were able to get your Rx! What a relief! I am still struck speechless at the way the "system" is treating those of us unfortunate enough to be stuck in the middle of this ordeal. I am so happy that it worked for you. Now you can taper at your pace. Feeling like we have some control is an important part of this, isn't it?

Hope this finds all doing well! Will check in as I can....

Sydney

[[ga...]]

Hi All, it has been awhile but I wanted to check in briefly. I just passed a 60% reduction on a daily microtaper. I am starting to feel it, so may have to slow down a bit. Of course, stress at work does not help. Having some anxiety, some difficulty sleeping, and some digestive upset. But, all in all, I'm okay. As I have read here before, nothing, no symptom or event, is as important as getting off the benzos! If all goes well I am on track to be benzo-free in mid-December.

To Jeff, I wanted to say that you have been on my mind since the 16th, and I am SO GLAD that you were able to get your Rx! What a relief! I am still struck speechless at the way the "system" is treating those of us unfortunate enough to be stuck in the middle of this ordeal. I am so happy that it worked for you. Now you can taper at your pace. Feeling like we have some control is an important part of this, isn't it?

Hope this finds all doing well! Will check in as I can....

Sydney

 

Hi Sydney! Thanks so much for the update. I always wonder how people are doing. It sounds like you are right on track. So happy to hear that!

[[Hi...]]

am on 6mg of ativan too reinstated and so so unstable I have every symptom before reinstated. I tried to do a crossover to valium and could not tolerance the valium it is making me so sick I only switched part so 10 mg and held for two weeks the lethargy and sedation got worse and worse and didn't help my mind at all I decided to go back to the 6mg and micro taper....

I tried this before but tapered .5mg in a month and lost my mind updosedes and never really got it all back but I feel like every month I get sicker and sicker and my waves get worse and worse inn in extreme mental agony torture burning and weak I was having so good days too where it would dissapear but the inner turmoil is relentless. I have episodes where I cry and scream in agony because it's not going to end. And I haven't even begun to taper yet is there no way to become stable? I need a coach through this. Did you have massive emotional breakdown and waves of torment that would lift from time to time or ease up? I get so lost in it I can't believe that I am not going to die because it feels like it at all times

 

During your taper did certain things lift the farther off you got

 

I need help setting up a micro taper for 2mg 3x a day. Each pills weighs .300.

 

I was just on valium for two weeks so I'm assuming it'd going to take some time for it to comeout of my system. I'm also trying to taper off methadone and innings gabapentin but not messing with that right now.

 

I am planning on using a scale I need to go slow. But my liver is bad and I think not processing the drugs correctly. Like for me when I was cutting ativan before it took like 5 days to feel a cut that's not normal is it?

 

Please Help me set up a micro tapering plan

[[Hi...]]

so I'm back to trying to micro taper the ativan. My pills are 2mg take 3x a day

 

They weigh .300 so all together it's .900 if I taper .001 a day is that slow enough? I'm not sure how to do this I think last time I was cutting .030 and holding for a couple weeks but I tapered .5mg in a month and it caught up to me and was horrible. I'm already kindled so will micro tapering even make symptoms less severe or should I get off as quickly as possible but safe I've proved over and over that I can't handle very very little change so ya.. Is that reasonable or should I do .02 a day to start and then hold for a few days in between?

 

I am crossing back over that 10mg valium for the 1mg ativan for a total of six again. Should I wait a while for the valium to get out of my blood?

 

I feel little better today less sedated and depressed but more clear headed. Is that because I am back to full ativan but the valium is still accumulated? I wonder

[[li...]]

Lorazepam is generally less sedating than diazepam.

 

Did you talk to the doc about the switch back to lorazepam ?

[[Ul...]]

Jeff, hell if I know. But I thought it meant what happens to our nervous system when/if we've cold-turkeyed or tapered way too fast, re-instated a time or two, and got our CNS all messed up as a result. Then it's 'kindled' all the way down. Some say its not necessarily true. All I know is, my CNS got fried. Some say the term originally applied to alcoholics in withdrawal, not benzos, but I'd have to check my research on that. Someone else here probably knows better.

 

'Course, I haven't had much sleep either...lol...and feel for you.

Hoping you can sleep soon! It's awful without sleep!

 

V. 

 

You got that right, V!!!    Sleep...what's THAT?

[[Ul...]]

Jeff and V,

 

Kindling due to substance withdrawal refers the neurological condition which results from repeated withdrawal episodes from sedative-hypnotic drugs such as alcohol or benzodiazepines. Each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than the previous withdrawal syndrome.

 

So, when you try to taper off a second time, people could have more problems with a second taper..

 

 

I guess that's a good reason to not TRY a second time...instead, just do it slow and steady the FIRST time    Thanks for the explanation.

 

Jeff

[[Ul...]]

Jeff and V,

 

Kindling due to substance withdrawal refers the neurological condition which results from repeated withdrawal episodes from sedative-hypnotic drugs such as alcohol or benzodiazepines. Each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than the previous withdrawal syndrome.

 

So, when you try to taper off a second time, people could have more problems with a second taper..

 

 

Moo, I've often wondered if the 4-6 months of serious inter-dose withdrawal I went through due to psych nurse prescribing all my X at night was sort of like a gazillion mini withdrawals which sensitized me. Every morning I woke up in full blown withdrawal, every day was worse than the day before, and every night I reinstated by taking my prescribed bedtime dose. Now I am having a terrible time tapering at a normal pace. 5% per month is all I can tolerate. Or maybe it's just the bleeping Xanax. I couldn't budge an inch on it for over a month until I did a partial cross. Not crossing any more if I can help it, though. I like my already-liquid X and I find the L depressing. So, I'm sort of balancing with one foot on each side while crawling along with my micro-micro-taper.

 

Anybody going to still be left on this thread with me when I'm finally off in 2+ years?? 

 

Gard

 

5%?? Off in 2 years?? You're doing good, Gard!! Like I said before, I'd be happy if I were on track to reduce 5% in a YEAR!! This "no sleep" trash along with the cortisol blasts throughout the night and then the thyroid challenge....man, it's ALL a challenge for each of us. Definitely stinks, but we can do it. NOW GIVE ME SOME DA## SLEEP!! Sorry...a little cranky 

[[Ul...]]

Hi All, it has been awhile but I wanted to check in briefly. I just passed a 60% reduction on a daily microtaper. I am starting to feel it, so may have to slow down a bit. Of course, stress at work does not help. Having some anxiety, some difficulty sleeping, and some digestive upset. But, all in all, I'm okay. As I have read here before, nothing, no symptom or event, is as important as getting off the benzos! If all goes well I am on track to be benzo-free in mid-December.

To Jeff, I wanted to say that you have been on my mind since the 16th, and I am SO GLAD that you were able to get your Rx! What a relief! I am still struck speechless at the way the "system" is treating those of us unfortunate enough to be stuck in the middle of this ordeal. I am so happy that it worked for you. Now you can taper at your pace. Feeling like we have some control is an important part of this, isn't it?

Hope this finds all doing well! Will check in as I can....

Sydney

 

Hey Sydney!!  Thank you and, of course, congratulations on your progress. That's so awesome!! Looks like you'll have one heck of a ramblin' Christmas and New Year's this year. You deserve it! Thanks for stopping in and passing on some hope.

 

Jeff

[[ga...]]

Jeff and V,

 

Kindling due to substance withdrawal refers the neurological condition which results from repeated withdrawal episodes from sedative-hypnotic drugs such as alcohol or benzodiazepines. Each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than the previous withdrawal syndrome.

 

So, when you try to taper off a second time, people could have more problems with a second taper..

 

 

Moo, I've often wondered if the 4-6 months of serious inter-dose withdrawal I went through due to psych nurse prescribing all my X at night was sort of like a gazillion mini withdrawals which sensitized me. Every morning I woke up in full blown withdrawal, every day was worse than the day before, and every night I reinstated by taking my prescribed bedtime dose. Now I am having a terrible time tapering at a normal pace. 5% per month is all I can tolerate. Or maybe it's just the bleeping Xanax. I couldn't budge an inch on it for over a month until I did a partial cross. Not crossing any more if I can help it, though. I like my already-liquid X and I find the L depressing. So, I'm sort of balancing with one foot on each side while crawling along with my micro-micro-taper.

 

Anybody going to still be left on this thread with me when I'm finally off in 2+ years?? 

 

Gard

 

5%?? Off in 2 years?? You're doing good, Gard!! Like I said before, I'd be happy if I were on track to reduce 5% in a YEAR!! This "no sleep" trash along with the cortisol blasts throughout the night and then the thyroid challenge....man, it's ALL a challenge for each of us. Definitely stinks, but we can do it. NOW GIVE ME SOME DA## SLEEP!! Sorry...a little cranky 

 

Jeff, I finally realized I could not recover without getting those nighttime cortisol blasts under control. My psychiatrist is alternating a couple of meds that are sedating in order for me to get adequate sleep so I can move forward with my taper. I didn't want to do it, but without them, I was a nonfunctioning zombie and my brain could not heal. I know I will have the sleep issue to deal with still at the end of the taper but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Maybe your new psychiatrist can help you come up with a way to get 5 or 6 hours/night. That's about what I get these days with my meds routine.

[[de...]]

hi all you micro taperers..i havent posted in what seems like forever i have been so down and out and have been holding but now i am ready to start my taper in the morning changing from 3 doses to 4 doses a day to see if that helps it just doesnt seem like the 3 times a day is holding for 8 hrs..

SG did the math for me awhile back but i cant find the post so maybe SG or someone else can do the math for me please to make sure i dont start off my 4 doses wrong when i cut them tonight.

 

i take .121 .120 .121 a day  1mg tabs..average weight .170..so would i cut the pills to make it weigh right  .90 .90 .91 .91??  i appreciate any help i can get with this..i will check back in a couple hrs to see if anyone has seen this.

 

thanks so much

 

deep

[[...]]

hi all you micro taperers..i havent posted in what seems like forever i have been so down and out and have been holding but now i am ready to start my taper in the morning changing from 3 doses to 4 doses a day to see if that helps it just doesnt seem like the 3 times a day is holding for 8 hrs..

SG did the math for me awhile back but i cant find the post so maybe SG or someone else can do the math for me please to make sure i dont start off my 4 doses wrong when i cut them tonight.

 

i take .121 .120 .121 a day  1mg tabs..average weight .170..so would i cut the pills to make it weigh right  .90 .90 .91 .91??  i appreciate any help i can get with this..i will check back in a couple hrs to see if anyone has seen this.

 

thanks so much

 

deep

 

 

Thanks exactly right, Deep.  You don't even need to know the dose or original pill weight to figure this, since you already know your total pill weight.  Just add them up and divide by four so .121+.120+.121=.362g/4=.0905g.  To get a .0905g average do two .090g and two .091g, which is exactly what you did.

[[Sh...]]

DAY 24 AND AT .95MG FROM 1MG.  A WHOPPING 5mL Reduction.  Call me snail. 

 

All the best to you guys!  Hang tough.

Shaani

[[ga...]]

DAY 24 AND AT .95MG FROM 1MG.  A WHOPPING 5mL Reduction.  Call me snail. 

 

All the best to you guys!  Hang tough.

Shaani

 

Greetings from one snail to another! We can do this!

[[Ho...]]

SG (and everyone!), quick question. I have been coming down to my lower doses of Klonopin (currently at .075g) and have been fine since a couple days ago when I noticed that my anxiety is starting to pick up in the morning again. I was doing so well but think I need to slow down as I get to these lower doses? I have been cutting .005g daily and have been going great. Now maybe it's too much at these lower doses? Is it part psychological too, perhaps, knowing that I will soon be saying goodbye to these drugs that I have relied on and now I have to cope on "my own"? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[[...]]

We all need to slow down as the dose gets smaller.  It is not psychological.  It is a very real physical thing and is a result of the way drug concentration is related to receptor occupancy.  Basically, the same cut exposes more and more receptors as we go lower and lower so we need to slow down.  As a guide you can keep tabs on your monthly percentage and keep that within your range.  Congratulations on getting down so quickly.  Your dependence seems to be light.

[[sh...]]

SG (and everyone!), quick question. I have been coming down to my lower doses of Klonopin (currently at .075g) and have been fine since a couple days ago when I noticed that my anxiety is starting to pick up in the morning again. I was doing so well but think I need to slow down as I get to these lower doses? I have been cutting .005g daily and have been going great. Now maybe it's too much at these lower doses? Is it part psychological too, perhaps, knowing that I will soon be saying goodbye to these drugs that I have relied on and now I have to cope on "my own"? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

Hey HopefulMom,

 

The lower doses can be challenging.  As you get lower, if you are cutting at a consistent rate daily, the percentage you are cutting goes up so you may be feeling that.  I had to do a few holds as my dose got lower but it did level out for me and I was able to continue.  I believe it is true what you are saying about having to cope on your own without the medication.  That is what I have been experiencing also.  For me it is very important to do things that decrease anxiety and depression naturally, such as exercise, breathing techniques, prayer, etc.  Hang in there it will get better!

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

[[dp...]]

I have to say, I don't trust pill bits that have been previously cut and sitting around for weeks... after cutting up a fresh batch of pills to equal the doses I'm taking and throwing out the little ones I'd been saving, it feels like I re-instated or up dosed. I'm only cutting 4-5 days at a time from now on.. not messing this up.

 

 

[[de...]]

SG..thank you so much for the help with the math..but i am really struggling today..the first day i have split them and made them 4 doses..after my morning and noon dose my ears are screaming..i feel like i am in a drum and can barely stand it..and i am using pieces that i have put in a pill bottle from 5 or 6 months ago up til now ...

is there any other way to get to the 4 doses other than just doing it..as i cant even think straight with the way i feel right now..i want to go and take the .60 i am short to try to get my ears to stop but i am doing everything to hang on and not give in..

 

dp..and after reading what you just wrote i am wondering if that is also effecting me with going from 3 doses a day to 4..just dont know what to do at the moment..

 

thanks for any advice could sure use some at the moment

 

deep

[[...]]

SG..thank you so much for the help with the math..but i am really struggling today..the first day i have split them and made them 4 doses..after my morning and noon dose my ears are screaming..i feel like i am in a drum and can barely stand it..and i am using pieces that i have put in a pill bottle from 5 or 6 months ago up til now ...

is there any other way to get to the 4 doses other than just doing it..as i cant even think straight with the way i feel right now..i want to go and take the .60 i am short to try to get my ears to stop but i am doing everything to hang on and not give in..

 

dp..and after reading what you just wrote i am wondering if that is also effecting me with going from 3 doses a day to 4..just dont know what to do at the moment..

 

thanks for any advice could sure use some at the moment

 

deep

 

Hi Deep, is all this caused just from the dose schedule switch?  Is it severe?

[[de...]]

SG..i had been using pieces for a couple weeks now and not cutting on my whole pills and my ears were fine..its that crazy high pitch like tinnitus and it started this morning a bit after i took the first dose..and has gotten worse as the day has went on..and not sure how to pull out of it..i have to leave in like 20 mins to get my hair done and not sure how i will get through this..hope to get some help as to what to do to get to 4 doses..a better way not all at once..or else get back to where i was at 3 doses..

 

thanks

 

deep

[[ca...]]

SG..i had been using pieces for a couple weeks now and not cutting on my whole pills and my ears were fine..its that crazy high pitch like tinnitus and it started this morning a bit after i took the first dose..and has gotten worse as the day has went on..and not sure how to pull out of it..i have to leave in like 20 mins to get my hair done and not sure how i will get through this..hope to get some help as to what to do to get to 4 doses..a better way not all at once..or else get back to where i was at 3 doses..

 

thanks

 

deep

Deep i have TT since before my taper gotten worse now that i am tapering it`s a common s/x yes it`s crazy annoying but it will come and go you will get adjusted to it and maybe 3 doses would be better? Hang tough !

 

[[de...]]

CD..thank you for getting back to me..and i have only had a few episodes since i started my taper but nothing like this..i hope it eases up before i get to the place to get my hair done ..dont know if i will be able to let them color and wash it all out and sit still with all this going on in my ears...

 

and thank you for telling me to hang tough..i sure seem like i have turned into a scared wimp lately..and just need to suck it up i guess 

 

deep

[[ca...]]

CD..thank you for getting back to me..and i have only had a few episodes since i started my taper but nothing like this..i hope it eases up before i get to the place to get my hair done ..dont know if i will be able to let them color and wash it all out and sit still with all this going on in my ears...

 

and thank you for telling me to hang tough..i sure seem like i have turned into a scared wimp lately..and just need to suck it up i guess 

 

deep

Deep, anytime and my ear is screaming as i type this but if this was the worse of my s/x`s i would concider it a blessing ! Your no wimp your a fighter and alot stronger then you even know so keep fighting and keep the faith !

[[...]]

SG..i had been using pieces for a couple weeks now and not cutting on my whole pills and my ears were fine..its that crazy high pitch like tinnitus and it started this morning a bit after i took the first dose..and has gotten worse as the day has went on..and not sure how to pull out of it..i have to leave in like 20 mins to get my hair done and not sure how i will get through this..hope to get some help as to what to do to get to 4 doses..a better way not all at once..or else get back to where i was at 3 doses..

 

thanks

 

deep

 

It is strange to me that you would have an extreme reaction to dose shifting.  Say you were dosing at 6am, 2pm, and 10pm, and now it is 6am, noon, 6pm, midnight.  By noon you are actually ahead of your old dose schedule for two hours until 2pm.  Then at 6pm you go ahead again until 10pm.  So I have trouble seeing where any extreme difference is occurring.  After all, it is the same dose and there is no cutting.  If it is really bad maybe go ahead and take half of the next dose early.