Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[an...]]

Hello everyone,

I have decided that micro tapering is going to be my best option. I am currently taking 2.75mg's a day of clonazepam. I take my first dose of 1mg at 7am, my second dose of 1mg at 2pm, and my last dose of 0.75 mg at 10 pm. So I am dosing every 8 hours around the clock. I made my first cut about 1 wee ago from 3mg down to 2 mg and I am currently "stabilizing"--as much as one can-- on this dose.

I purchased the Gemini scale that weighs in .001 mg's and all the other materials to try a dry cut M/T. I have watched the YouTube tutorial, but I need help.

I was wondering if someone can help put me on a schedule, and help me start this journey, so maybe one day god willing, I get through this and help others.

I have been on kpins for 7 years, always at 2 mg daily, but 3 years ago it was up'd 1 more mg-huge mistake.  I utilize the VA so my options for help there are limited due to their strict policies and guidelines. I currently get the 1 mg pills and when I see my doc next month, I will request the .5 mg pills. Unfortunately, Valium is not an option so this is what I'm working with.

 

Please, any help with a schedule would be so greatly appreciated. I have not told my doc yet for fear of him pulling the rug out from underneath me and tapering me in two weeks, which the VA IS NOTORIOUS FOR. I've spoke with other veterans and they have gone through hell--with an agonizing 2 week Librium taper. So I have my reason to get off w/out my doc's supervision yet.

Anyway, thank you all for what you do

Holyhope

 

Holy, to he## with your doc's supervision (if they're going to try to get you tapered in 2 weeks)!! I'd say, just do what it takes to get the med so you can taper off it. You and I have some similarities in that I was/am on a high dose of K for a long time. You'll find your way! Some math guru on here will get you going. Just hang tough, and hang with this thread. It'll save your life, give you confidence, and give you HOPE along with the details you need to succeed. Great people here. I was pushed down the "two week taper" path too. Not a good plan, I learned.

 

♫♪Keep on...believin'...♫♫♪

 

Jeff

 

Good luck today Jeff.  Remember, the goal is to get the doctor to prescribe.  You will be in my thoughts today.

Anne

[[Ma...]]

Moodle,

 

I am sorry you are having some intense moments. I am so happy you will be jumping soon! My fingers and toes will be crossed! Wishing you lots of luck! 

 

XO Maya

[[Mo...]]

Moodle,

 

I am sorry you are having some intense moments. I am so happy you will be jumping soon! My fingers and toes will be crossed! Wishing you lots of luck! 

 

XO Maya

 

Thank you, Maya..!

I find a a little bit scary. But I also know that the worst should be behind me, seeing how I'm doing right now and knowing I've long been on a dose now that's not even therapeutic anymore anyway.

So, trying to cope in different ways. But it's a very odd feeling.

It's been a long 25 months.

 

[[Ma...]]

Moodle,

 

I am sorry you are having some intense moments. I am so happy you will be jumping soon! My fingers and toes will be crossed! Wishing you lots of luck! 

 

XO Maya

 

Thank you, Maya..!

I find a a little bit scary. But I also know that the worst should be behind me, seeing how I'm doing right now and knowing I've long been on a dose now that's not even therapeutic anymore anyway.

So, trying to cope in different ways. But it's a very odd feeling.

It's been a long 25 months.

 

The worst is definitely behind you! I can only imagine how you must feel. It is a long journey. I am very inspired by you! I know things will be even better after you jump!

 

:smitten:

 

XO Maya

[[Mo...]]

Moodle,

 

I am sorry you are having some intense moments. I am so happy you will be jumping soon! My fingers and toes will be crossed! Wishing you lots of luck! 

 

XO Maya

 

Thank you, Maya..!

I find a a little bit scary. But I also know that the worst should be behind me, seeing how I'm doing right now and knowing I've long been on a dose now that's not even therapeutic anymore anyway.

So, trying to cope in different ways. But it's a very odd feeling.

It's been a long 25 months.

 

The worst is definitely behind you! I can only imagine how you must feel. It is a long journey. I am very inspired by you! I know things will be even better after you jump!

 

:smitten:

 

XO Maya

 

gosh, I hope so, Maya....

It's a weird feeling. I'm not worried about the jump itself. It's just that we don't k ow what's ahead of us. I guess nobody can tell anyway. So... Kind of pointless to worry. But still...

 

Now I'm starting neuro therapy, because I need to have my thyroid sorted out. I'll wait a few months to be sure the Valium has cleared from my body entirely. The doctor suspects Hashimotos .

It's good that I can start sorting things out now.

 

Thanks for the kind words. You'll get there too.

[[Ma...]]

gosh, I hope so, Maya....

It's a weird feeling. I'm not worried about the jump itself. It's just that we don't k ow what's ahead of us. I guess nobody can tell anyway. So... Kind of pointless to worry. But still...

 

Now I'm starting neuro therapy, because I need to have my thyroid sorted out. I'll wait a few months to be sure the Valium has cleared from my body entirely. The doctor suspects Hashimotos .

It's good that I can start sorting things out now.

 

Thanks for the kind words. You'll get there too.

Moodle,

I completely understand about being kinda worried about what ahead. You're right that nobody can predict, but certainly better things are ahead! As Ashton says you can't completely heal until you aren't taking any of the med anymore.

 

That's good that you are getting your thyroid taken care of. That will also make you feel a lot better. My sister has Grave's Disease and she finally has her thyroid issues under control and is doing so much better. Keep us posted on how you're doing. I can't wait to read your success story!

 

Thank you! I wish it could be sooner, but I know I will get there! 

 

XO Maya

 

P.S. Look at me doing partial quotes 

[[Mo...]]

 

P.S. Look at me doing partial quotes 

 

 

 

 

[[St...]]

I finally started working out rates of taper in a spreadsheet. I'm currently on 4.48MG of Valium. I started with cuts of 0.01MG per day. Going by my spreadsheet that has me finishing in December of 2016. I then did a version that had cuts of 0.02MG per day. That has me finishing in May of 2016. Am I doing something wrong? I want to do this correctly, but the first version seems really slow. The second seems like it's faster than what many of your are doing. What would be the best place for me to start?

[[...]]

I finally started working out rates of taper in a spreadsheet. I'm currently on 4.48MG of Valium. I started with cuts of 0.01MG per day. Going by my spreadsheet that has me finishing in December of 2016. I then did a version that had cuts of 0.02MG per day. That has me finishing in May of 2016. Am I doing something wrong? I want to do this correctly, but the first version seems really slow. The second seems like it's faster than what many of your are doing. What would be the best place for me to start?

 

At your dose a .015mg cut is a good place to begin.  If things go well you can bump it up to .02mg and try that.

[[bu...]]

I finally started working out rates of taper in a spreadsheet. I'm currently on 4.48MG of Valium. I started with cuts of 0.01MG per day. Going by my spreadsheet that has me finishing in December of 2016. I then did a version that had cuts of 0.02MG per day. That has me finishing in May of 2016. Am I doing something wrong? I want to do this correctly, but the first version seems really slow. The second seems like it's faster than what many of your are doing. What would be the best place for me to start?

 

At your dose a .015mg cut is a good place to begin.  If things go well you can bump it up to .02mg and try that.

 

:thumbsup:

[[ga...]]

 

 

And a hello to everyone here.

Quick update : I'm doing ok but have some intense moments. This morning wasn't fun.

And then right now, I'm close to normal- ish.

 

I'll be jumping in two weeks or so, so fingers crossed, people ....

 

Moo

 

Very exciting, Moo! Congratulations. You are so close!

[[El...]]

I posted this question under withdrawal support and have not heard from anyone. Thought I would pose the question here and see what you all think.

 

It's been suggested to me that I might want to updose to "stabilize". I have been on the same dose for four months. I have been holding since a crossover attempt exacerbated already existing muscle and joint pain from a previous dose cut. This past month I developed a new symptom of burning skin. Has anyone done this at the beginning of a taper? Was it a good decision? I of course am terrified at the idea of taking one more crumb of this awful stuff. And who knows how much of an increase would be needed. At the same time, it's scary to enter a taper feeling so badly.

 

Thoughts? Was planning to begin the micro taper I've discussed on this thread in two weeks.

 

[[Be...]]

Elizabeth,

 

I have seen varying responses to similar questions over the last year that I have been participating on BB.  People who are certain they are in tolerance withdrawal are generally advised to just keep reducing since they are unlikely to stabilize with a reasonable updose.  I have never been in tolerance withdrawal and have elected to do a small updose each time that my symptoms became unbearable and then I immediately started tapering at a lower rate than before.  This is really an individual thing and everyone has to listen to their own body.  I have to work full time so maintain my symptoms at a level that allows me to be fully functional at work.  Some people with either less demanding jobs or who don't work press the limit of what they can take in terms of withdrawal symptoms and withdraw as quickly as they possibly can.  I hope this helps.  There doesn't seem to be a one size fits all answer to your question.

[[...]]

Thank you Sharkey!  If I do that , would I be down to 12 mg by the end of the second week? ( I don't know what I will tell the do , he'll be po'd that I didn't do what he said...) but I want to try to find a level of taper that works for me and allows me to function.  Which I am not at right now. 

BTW do you feel good now that you are totally off?  You did slow taper and it worked out good ?  It seems like a lot of people suffer terribly when they jump.  Just wondering.  Not trying to be nosy.  Just trying to figure out a plan for myself that I can reasonably work with to get off this stuff without suffering too much now and then not having a terrible time when I finally get off .  Guess I have plenty of time , given that I'm on so much Valium - gag.

 

If you do as I suggested, you would be down to 12.12mg by the end of the second week.  3 days later you would be at 12mg.

 

I am just over 2 months off of benzos and I am happy about how I feel.  If I'm not under stress, then most of the time I feel fine.  I have had 2 or 3 waves (as they are referred to here) that were pretty bad that I felt off for a few days and had bad depression but they were gone in a few days.  But I've also experienced a large window that lasted about a week and I felt better than I have in a long time.  Other than that, I am still very sensitive to anxiety under stress but I have learned through the tapering process how to manage it an still function almost normally.  If further healing is ahead of me I will be extremely pleased.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

Sharkey, if I start reducing now from the five mls per day , going down 1 ml per day- what dose would I take for the remaining three days to get down to 12 mg.?  I can't figure it out. Becasue I'm starting this week out with 5 mls not 8. 

Thank you, I'm so bad with the math.

[[an...]]

I posted this question under withdrawal support and have not heard from anyone. Thought I would pose the question here and see what you all think.

 

It's been suggested to me that I might want to updose to "stabilize". I have been on the same dose for four months. I have been holding since a crossover attempt exacerbated already existing muscle and joint pain from a previous dose cut. This past month I developed a new symptom of burning skin. Has anyone done this at the beginning of a taper? Was it a good decision? I of course am terrified at the idea of taking one more crumb of this awful stuff. And who knows how much of an increase would be needed. At the same time, it's scary to enter a taper feeling so badly.

 

Thoughts? Was planning to begin the micro taper I've discussed on this thread in two weeks.

 

Elizabeth,

 

I agree with Ben.  Everyone is different.  I up dosed for my first taper.  I added a third dose of 0.25 mg .  I took 0.75 mg/day.  I felt better immediately.  I waited about three weeks before I started the taper.  I was pretty much symptom free all the way down. 

 

I did up dose for this taper, but not enough.  If I had to do it over again I would have gone up another 0.25 mg.  I work full time and have no choice but to be functional. 

 

From experience, I believe one needs to be as stable as possible when starting a taper if the taper is going to be a smooth one. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[...]]

Sharkey, I guess what you meant is if I just reduce my dose this week by one ml a day , I will be down ( done with the .5 mg) in three days .... Not five

[[ga...]]

I scrolled through but didn't see any news from Jeff (Ultra). Has anybody heard from him since his appointment? Or have I mixed up the date?

 

Gard

[[sh...]]

Thank you Sharkey!  If I do that , would I be down to 12 mg by the end of the second week? ( I don't know what I will tell the do , he'll be po'd that I didn't do what he said...) but I want to try to find a level of taper that works for me and allows me to function.  Which I am not at right now. 

BTW do you feel good now that you are totally off?  You did slow taper and it worked out good ?  It seems like a lot of people suffer terribly when they jump.  Just wondering.  Not trying to be nosy.  Just trying to figure out a plan for myself that I can reasonably work with to get off this stuff without suffering too much now and then not having a terrible time when I finally get off .  Guess I have plenty of time , given that I'm on so much Valium - gag.

 

If you do as I suggested, you would be down to 12.12mg by the end of the second week.  3 days later you would be at 12mg.

 

I am just over 2 months off of benzos and I am happy about how I feel.  If I'm not under stress, then most of the time I feel fine.  I have had 2 or 3 waves (as they are referred to here) that were pretty bad that I felt off for a few days and had bad depression but they were gone in a few days.  But I've also experienced a large window that lasted about a week and I felt better than I have in a long time.  Other than that, I am still very sensitive to anxiety under stress but I have learned through the tapering process how to manage it an still function almost normally.  If further healing is ahead of me I will be extremely pleased.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

Sharkey, if I start reducing now from the five mls per day , going down 1 ml per day- what dose would I take for the remaining three days to get down to 12 mg.?  I can't figure it out. Becasue I'm starting this week out with 5 mls not 8. 

Thank you, I'm so bad with the math.

 

What in the 5ml?  Did you make it like the doctor said?  2ml Valium + 48ml of water for 50ml of solution?

[[sh...]]

I scrolled through but didn't see any news from Jeff (Ultra). Has anybody heard from him since his appointment? Or have I mixed up the date?

 

Gard

 

I just heard through the grape vine that he got it!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Congratz Jeff!  Rock on!!  And geaux tigers!

[[ga...]]

I scrolled through but didn't see any news from Jeff (Ultra). Has anybody heard from him since his appointment? Or have I mixed up the date?

 

Gard

 

I just heard through the grape vine that he got it!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Congratz Jeff!  Rock on!!  And geaux tigers!

 

Thank you so much for sharing this. I can't tell you how relieved I am. I am almost crying.

 

I remember when a doctor tried to force me to do a cold turkey off of Librium and how terrified I was. I can't imagine how Jeff dealt with that hanging over his head for so long. I was only freaked out for one day! 

 

I'M SO HAPPY FOR YOU, JEFF!!!  

[[...]]

Actually, the solution he had me make was 50 water to 2 mls liquid.

Jan

[[Ho...]]

SG,

I saw on another thread that you were able to taper from an SSRI in 6 weeks without any ill effects. What were you on and how did you go about on the taper? Curious as I'm on Celexa and want to get off it. Also, did you go off it while tapering from a benzo?

Thank you

[[...]]

SG,

I saw on another thread that you were able to taper from an SSRI in 6 weeks without any ill effects. What were you on and how did you go about on the taper? Curious as I'm on Celexa and want to get off it. Also, did you go off it while tapering from a benzo?

Thank you

 

Yeah, I was on lexapro - and before that prozac - for 21 years.  I had a very easy time and looking back I was very lucky.  I tapered it in six weeks prior to beginning my K taper and had some flu-like symptoms that went away pretty quick.  Back then I was not aware ADs could also be a huge problem.  If I had it to do again I would have been more careful and microtapered it, but like I said, I was lucky so it didn't matter.  I've since seen what ADs can do and they can be as bad as benzos.

[[ga...]]

SG,

I saw on another thread that you were able to taper from an SSRI in 6 weeks without any ill effects. What were you on and how did you go about on the taper? Curious as I'm on Celexa and want to get off it. Also, did you go off it while tapering from a benzo?

Thank you

 

HopefulMom, I tapered one SNRI pretty easily and one SSRI with some trouble and way too fast. I had very serious rebound depression but it didn't last long. I was lucky. I should have gone slower. I have heard some people say to taper the benzo first and others say to taper the SSRI first. My doctor told me to do one at a time. I think that is wise advice. Otherwise the waters are very muddy.

 

Here's a link that may be helpful.

http://www.benzo.org.uk/ashtonad.htm

 

 

[[Ul...]]

SG.  .25ml / day is my cut rate.  Original dose 1mg of K /day.  Divided onto 2 doses. 

 

Shaani

 

Do you put 1mg K into 100ml liquid?  That would be .0025mg a day.  That makes sense as you said you got from 1mg to .9675mg in 13 days.  That would be 7.5% for the first month.  Symptoms should not be allowed to increase so, as Bennie said, hold until you feel ready.  Or if you feel they are acceptable you could try dropping to 5% and keep going.  That would be .15ml a day.  I think it is important to create immediate success and find a rate you can live with that does not increase symptoms, then move up from there.

 

Totally agree with this!  :thumbsup:

  Ugh...I will hold. I really just wanted to be able to keep cutting. At this rate I will be on this drug for a long time. Preaching to the choir.  It sucks. Thanks for responding guys.  Shaani

 

It DOES suck, Shaani. At least you're below 1mg. I'd give my left and right arm to even be remotely close to that. I guess it's all perspective    When you're free and clear, I'll still have a couple more years to go. Doesn't matter. At least we'll ALL be benzo free one day!!

 

Many hugs and prayers comin' atcha!

 

Jeff

 

Jeff, What's the word on the new doctor? Haven't been on the thread for a few days and wondering if I missed your big news.

 

Gard

 

Hey Miss America!! As always, nice of you to ask...or, even remember. Heck, I can barely remember. Anyway, I go to the doc tomorrow. Honestly, I'm pretty freaked out and nervous, but I can only control what I think. I can't control HIM, but we'll see what happens. Oh, and I saw your post about 5%. Give me a 5% per YEAR reduction, and I'd be happy!! Right now I'm flying along at zero. Lightspeed, huh?? 

 

Catch ya later. Hugs to you!

 

Jeff

 

Oh my goodness, tomorrow! I'll say one of my very profound prayers for you: Please, God, please, please, please, please. Actually, since I've been to a few AA meetings that would be: Please, Higher Power, please, please, please, please, please. Actually, my therapist told me I should not go to AA because I am not an addict and they were trying to convince me I was, so I guess I will go back to the former version.

 

When you are up to 5% per year let me know and I will eat a gluten-free chocolate cake to celebrate! When you are up to 10% per year, I will eat two. (You might consider crossing over to a slower benzo to speed up my cake-eating excuse. )

 

You just made this sleep-deprived nut job laugh.  Thanks, Gardener!! Oh, and the doc I saw said he'll give me 2mg of clonazepam a day. He said that's the max he'll give out. He also said that clonazepam, K (all benzos) are NOT addictive. Also told me that I could get off my K in less than a month if I really wanted too. I kindly noticed his bow tie, dress pants, beard, running shoes, and weirdness while I took the script and ran. I was hoping for 3mg/day since I'm not quite down to 2mg yet, but I'll be fine.

 

Keep on rockin' this world girl!!

 

Have sweet dreams tonight.

 

Jeff