Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Ma...]]

SG,

I held for Sat and Sun and then slowed my cut rate to .001g a day. I had a very bad day today. My stomach was bothering me and cause me not to get enough sleep. I felt depressed etc. That I am not sure what caused it. What is weird is when I held the paresthesia on my neck went away and I felt better. Now my paresthesia is back after only cutting .002g. I don't see how that is even possible? It is my worst physical symptom. It is not that bad now, but if it gets bad I will have to hold again. I don't understand why things keep getting harder for me. I am cutting a lot less than with cut/hold and I'm not doing better. I know you said it's not my body getting used to MT. I'm so confused and frustrated. I had to cancel an important appt today. I feel like it was been downhill since I evened my doses. They are no longer even. I am trying to be accepting of having to go slower etc. and remain positive. It was hard today. I was hoping you could possibly shed some light on this. I am sorry to keep bothering you. Thanks for all your help!

 

Reachin,

 

Pretty much everyone on this thread is doing MT with liquid. On the KK board everyone is using the scale I posted for you. I am no longer using the pan because I find it annoying, but with powder it will be necessary.

 

fluterbyee,

I agree with builder that if your blood pressure is seriously concerning you that you should go to a dr. I have always had really low blood pressure and I have been having BP spikes where it was even on the higher side of normal once, but it is just wd and I am healthy. I also had my heart checked because of heart palpitations, chest pains, racing heart etc. I had all tests done...echocardiogram, heart halter etc. my heart us healthy. Unfortunately, this is common in wd. I hope you feel better!

 

XO Maya

 

 

 

 

[[...]]

SG,

I held for Sat and Sun and then slowed my cut rate to .001g a day. I had a very bad day today. My stomach was bothering me and cause me not to get enough sleep. I felt depressed etc. That I am not sure what caused it. What is weird is when I held the paresthesia on my neck went away and I felt better. Now my paresthesia is back after only cutting .002g. I don't see how that is even possible? It is my worst physical symptom. It is not that bad now, but if it gets bad I will have to hold again. I don't understand why things keep getting harder for me. I am cutting a lot less than with cut/hold and I'm not doing better. I know you said it's not my body getting used to MT. I'm so confused and frustrated. I had to cancel an important appt today. I feel like it was been downhill since I evened my doses. They are no longer even. I am trying to be accepting of having to go slower etc. and remain positive. It was hard today. I was hoping you could possibly shed some light on this. I am sorry to keep bothering you. Thanks for all your help!

 

That's puzzling.  I don't see how cutting .001g for two days results in much of anything at your dose.  We know symptoms wax and wane and that we can have good days and bad days so it becomes difficult to tie cause and effect.  We also know placebo-like effects are very real.  I'm trying to make sense of it.  Maybe you need a long hold before you begin.  I don't think the symptoms are a result of the latest cuts.  I'd look for something else.

[[ga...]]

SG,

I held for Sat and Sun and then slowed my cut rate to .001g a day. I had a very bad day today. My stomach was bothering me and cause me not to get enough sleep. I felt depressed etc. That I am not sure what caused it. What is weird is when I held the paresthesia on my neck went away and I felt better. Now my paresthesia is back after only cutting .002g. I don't see how that is even possible? It is my worst physical symptom. It is not that bad now, but if it gets bad I will have to hold again. I don't understand why things keep getting harder for me. I am cutting a lot less than with cut/hold and I'm not doing better. I know you said it's not my body getting used to MT. I'm so confused and frustrated. I had to cancel an important appt today. I feel like it was been downhill since I evened my doses. They are no longer even. I am trying to be accepting of having to go slower etc. and remain positive. It was hard today. I was hoping you could possibly shed some light on this. I am sorry to keep bothering you. Thanks for all your help!

 

Reachin,

 

Pretty much everyone on this thread is doing MT with liquid. On the KK board everyone is using the scale I posted for you. I am no longer using the pan because I find it annoying, but with powder it will be necessary.

 

fluterbyee,

I agree with builder that if your blood pressure is seriously concerning you that you should go to a dr. I have always had really low blood pressure and I have been having BP spikes where it was even on the higher side of normal once, but it is just wd and I am healthy. I also had my heart checked because of heart palpitations, chest pains, racing heart etc. I had all tests done...echocardiogram, heart halter etc. my heart us healthy. Unfortunately, this is common in wd. I hope you feel better!

 

XO Maya

 

Maya, Just wanted to tell you that my experience has been similar to yours in some ways. The first part of my taper was so easy and then I hit a wall and can hardly move. I held a long time and seemed to get better and then get worse during the hold. I started a micro-taper and it didn't affect my symptoms; I still could not have a normal life. I partially crossed to Librium, and can make tiny cuts now but still, only tiny cuts. I wonder if "hitting the wall" around 1 mg sensitized me.

 

I'm very sorry about the paresthesias. Before I was diagnosed with Celiac, I had gluten-induced truly horrific neuropathy and paresthesias that flared up all over my body all day every day for over a year. Now that I am gluten-free and eating a healthy, anti-inflammatory diet, they are down to manageable. However, I have found that at certain times in my taper, they have flared up again and gone away again. The taper sensations are different that the gluten-sensitive burning and slicing, so I suspect it is the taper now causing the flare-ups. But they really did seem to be random. And now they have subsided again to what I call "nuisance" pain, something you can ignore if you keep busy. I understand how upset you are. It really wears on you to have these strange, nonsensical sensations. The brain wants to pay attention to them. The brain wants to pay attention to anything that seems dangerous in order to protect itself. So, even though they are not dangerous, the brain thinks the are and that battle can just wear you down. I don't know what the answer is, but I hope understanding it helps a little. And also knowing that they could just disappear/subside like mine did and as I've heard others' did. (I have a friend who went through this tapering K years ago and she is fine now.)

 

I hope I didn't just jinx myself by saying that my paresthesias have died down. I'll bet I notice every little twinge today!

 

Gard

 

P.S. The doctors told me my neuropathy was progressive and I would have to live with it. They were wrong! It got better, and yours will, too.

[[Fl...]]

HELLO,

I'M REPOSTING THIS HERE, BECAUSE I'M HOPING TO HEAR BACK FROM SOMEONE. EVERYTIME I HAVE POSTED TO THE XANAX SUPPORT THREAD...I DO NOT GET ANY REPLYS. I'M HOPING IT WILL BE DIFFERENT ON THIS THREAD.

 

HERE IS MY ORIGINAL POST.

 

HELLO,

 

I COULD REALLY USE SOME SUPPORT RIGHT NOW!

 

I'M NOW DOWN FROM 2.5mg TO 1.76mg.  I'M HOLDING.

 

I AM HAVING SOME MAJOR BP ISSUES...IF YOU WOULD LIKE A DETAILED EXPLINATION PLEASE SEE MY LOG (IT'S GREEN)

 

HAVE ANY OF YOU EXPERIENCED A MAJOR FLUCTUATION IN YOUR BP...UP AND DOWN?

 

PLEASE...IF SOMEONE COULD TALK TO ME ABOUT THIS.

 

I'M SCARED.

 

THANK YOU,

FLUTER

 

 

1) If you are REALLY concerned about your BP, you need to see a physician instead of looking for OPINIONS on a message board.

 

2)  That being said, some significant fluctuations in BP, even over a period of just a few minutes are pretty much normal. On any given day, mine might range from 105/65 to 140/85.  I'm a healthy senior male, work out daily, eat healthy, and my weight is normal to low normal,my resting pulse 55-60 BPM.

 

BP and HR fluctuations are common during WD

I wasn't looking for your OPINION or anyone elses. I"m not in the habit of doing that.  I was looking for support. I did go to my doc yesterday, as well as the ER on Monday.

I merely wanted to know if anyone here had a similar experience...that's all.

Thanks,

FB

[[Fl...]]

Hi Flute...

Yes, I've had heart rate trouble. Not bp.

My heart beat was up and done and it scared the hell out of me.

My doctor had me on a holter monitor for 48 hours.

 

Did the doctor give you blood pressure medication?

 

I'm sorry you're having it so rough..

I do know that it's not uncommon on here.

 

I'm hoping someone else will chime in.

Sorry if this doesn't help.

HI MOO,

THANK YOU FOR THE SUPPORT AND FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTION. THAT IS WHAT I REALLY WANTED TO KNOW. IS IF ANYONE ELSE HAD EXPERIENCED THIS SX.  I'M WORKING ON RE*SETTING MY THOUGHT PROCESS'S TO THE FACT THAT IT'S TAPER RELATED.

 

AND, YES, YOU HELPED.

 

FLUTER 

[[Fl...]]

fluterbyee,

I agree with builder that if your blood pressure is seriously concerning you that you should go to a dr. I have always had really low blood pressure and I have been having BP spikes where it was even on the higher side of normal once, but it is just wd and I am healthy. I also had my heart checked because of heart palpitations, chest pains, racing heart etc. I had all tests done...echocardiogram, heart halter etc. my heart us healthy. Unfortunately, this is common in wd. I hope you feel better![/quote

Thank you Maya,

198/108 is very scary!

I went to my doc yesterday. I have a great pulse...just spiked pressure. Actually, it's all over the place. Last night it was very low. It's just frustrating...that's all.

I am now resetting my thought process to accept it as WD.

All of my labs were excellent, ekg good.

So, moving forward...I will hold until this wave passes.

Thank you,

Fluter 

[[Ma...]]

SG,

I held for Sat and Sun and then slowed my cut rate to .001g a day. I had a very bad day today. My stomach was bothering me and cause me not to get enough sleep. I felt depressed etc. That I am not sure what caused it. What is weird is when I held the paresthesia on my neck went away and I felt better. Now my paresthesia is back after only cutting .002g. I don't see how that is even possible? It is my worst physical symptom. It is not that bad now, but if it gets bad I will have to hold again. I don't understand why things keep getting harder for me. I am cutting a lot less than with cut/hold and I'm not doing better. I know you said it's not my body getting used to MT. I'm so confused and frustrated. I had to cancel an important appt today. I feel like it was been downhill since I evened my doses. They are no longer even. I am trying to be accepting of having to go slower etc. and remain positive. It was hard today. I was hoping you could possibly shed some light on this. I am sorry to keep bothering you. Thanks for all your help!

 

That's puzzling.  I don't see how cutting .001g for two days results in much of anything at your dose.  We know symptoms wax and wane and that we can have good days and bad days so it becomes difficult to tie cause and effect.  We also know placebo-like effects are very real.  I'm trying to make sense of it.  Maybe you need a long hold before you begin.  I don't think the symptoms are a result of the latest cuts.  I'd look for something else.

 

 

I'm puzzled, too. I didn't think those cuts could affect me either. The depression and fatigue are both symptoms that are from when I was in tolerance wd. My stomach issues I have had for awhile, so I don't know what is causing them to act up. The paresthesia is a symtom I have only when I started tapering again. If I made a small cut I either wouldn't get it or would just a little for 2 or 3 days at most. If I made too big of a cut it for bad. My symtoms have never tended to wax and wane. They come and then they go until I cut again. That could definitely be changing. I don't know how the placebo effect would pertain to what I am going through?

 

I don't see how a long hold would benefit me. I was at .3mg less than I am now in the beginning of August. I updosed and held before I started MT. Could cut/hold be better for me at my dose maybe? I wonder if because I metabolize klonopin so fast maybe I should try a small c/o to Valium. Also 3.5mg seems to be a hard dose for me. The last time I was at it things were bad. My body has become very sensitive. I'm so confused.

 

I can't see the paresthesia being caused my something besides the cuts since I start MTing. Nothing else makes sense. You say to look for something else, but there is nothing else. The only change is I'm now using .5mg teva pills instead of 1mg teva pills. On Friday when I started having bad sxs I started taking protonix twice a day as suggested by my GI, but as you told me before it slows the metabolism of klonopin.  It has also helped my stomach and made my heartburn go away.

[[Ma...]]

 

Maya, Just wanted to tell you that my experience has been similar to yours in some ways. The first part of my taper was so easy and then I hit a wall and can hardly move. I held a long time and seemed to get better and then get worse during the hold. I started a micro-taper and it didn't affect my symptoms; I still could not have a normal life. I partially crossed to Librium, and can make tiny cuts now but still, only tiny cuts. I wonder if "hitting the wall" around 1 mg sensitized me.

 

I'm very sorry about the paresthesias. Before I was diagnosed with Celiac, I had gluten-induced truly horrific neuropathy and paresthesias that flared up all over my body all day every day for over a year. Now that I am gluten-free and eating a healthy, anti-inflammatory diet, they are down to manageable. However, I have found that at certain times in my taper, they have flared up again and gone away again. The taper sensations are different that the gluten-sensitive burning and slicing, so I suspect it is the taper now causing the flare-ups. But they really did seem to be random. And now they have subsided again to what I call "nuisance" pain, something you can ignore if you keep busy. I understand how upset you are. It really wears on you to have these strange, nonsensical sensations. The brain wants to pay attention to them. The brain wants to pay attention to anything that seems dangerous in order to protect itself. So, even though they are not dangerous, the brain thinks the are and that battle can just wear you down. I don't know what the answer is, but I hope understanding it helps a little. And also knowing that they could just disappear/subside like mine did and as I've heard others' did. (I have a friend who went through this tapering K years ago and she is fine now.)

 

I hope I didn't just jinx myself by saying that my paresthesias have died down. I'll bet I notice every little twinge today!

 

Gard

 

P.S. The doctors told me my neuropathy was progressive and I would have to live with it. They were wrong! It got better, and yours will, too.

 

Gardener,

Thank you for sharing! I'm sorry tapering has become harder for you. I hit a wall the last time I was at 3.5mg last time. I am at that dose again. Maybe it is my magic line?  You were talking about 1mg when you wrote about the magic line? Are you under it now? I actually did taper to 3mg easily last winter, but I went back up because it affected my sleep for a day. I wish I hadn't done that.  At that time I didn't realize that klonopin was harming me and how bad wd can get. I just knew it wasn't helping me. It confuses me that it is so much harder for me now. The only difference between then and now is trileptal, but I have no clue if that helped. Lately, it keeps getting harder and I'm going slower than I ever have.

 

I am sorry you had to deal with such bad paresthesia. I'm glad that you are no longer going through that. I do understand the paresthesia. When it is bad it is not tolerable for me. I feel like I'm crawling out of my skin. Also it happens on my neck. The worst place for me. I don't like anything touching my neck. I don't wear turtlenecks, tight necklaces or scarves etc. it is also a PTSD trigger for me.when I was doing cut/hold it was only a problem if I did too big of a cut. For me I think it is a symptom of my body saying this is too much. When it is bad. I know it will eventually go away forever. I just really hate it and I don't want to deal with it for years. Thank you so much!

 

XO Maya

 

P.S. I can finally do the partial quote now 

[[ca...]]

SG,

I held for Sat and Sun and then slowed my cut rate to .001g a day. I had a very bad day today. My stomach was bothering me and cause me not to get enough sleep. I felt depressed etc. That I am not sure what caused it. What is weird is when I held the paresthesia on my neck went away and I felt better. Now my paresthesia is back after only cutting .002g. I don't see how that is even possible? It is my worst physical symptom. It is not that bad now, but if it gets bad I will have to hold again. I don't understand why things keep getting harder for me. I am cutting a lot less than with cut/hold and I'm not doing better. I know you said it's not my body getting used to MT. I'm so confused and frustrated. I had to cancel an important appt today. I feel like it was been downhill since I evened my doses. They are no longer even. I am trying to be accepting of having to go slower etc. and remain positive. It was hard today. I was hoping you could possibly shed some light on this. I am sorry to keep bothering you. Thanks for all your help!

 

That's puzzling.  I don't see how cutting .001g for two days results in much of anything at your dose.  We know symptoms wax and wane and that we can have good days and bad days so it becomes difficult to tie cause and effect.  We also know placebo-like effects are very real.  I'm trying to make sense of it.  Maybe you need a long hold before you begin.  I don't think the symptoms are a result of the latest cuts.  I'd look for something else.

 

 

I'm puzzled, too. I didn't think those cuts could affect me either. The depression and fatigue are both symptoms that are from when I was in tolerance wd. My stomach issues I have had for awhile, so I don't know what is causing them to act up. The paresthesia is a symtom I have only when I started tapering again. If I made a small cut I either wouldn't get it or would just a little for 2 or 3 days at most. If I made too big of a cut it for bad. My symtoms have never tended to wax and wane. They come and then they go until I cut again. That could definitely be changing. I don't know how the placebo effect would pertain to what I am going through?

 

I don't see how a long hold would benefit me. I was at .3mg less than I am now in the beginning of August. I updosed and held before I started MT. Could cut/hold be better for me at my dose maybe? I wonder if because I metabolize klonopin so fast maybe I should try a small c/o to Valium. Also 3.5mg seems to be a hard dose for me. The last time I was at it things were bad. My body has become very sensitive. I'm so confused.

 

I can't see the paresthesia being caused my something besides the cuts since I start MTing. Nothing else makes sense. You say to look for something else, but there is nothing else. The only change is I'm now using .5mg teva pills instead of 1mg teva pills. On Friday when I started having bad sxs I started taking protonix twice a day as suggested by my GI, but as you told me before it slows the metabolism of klonopin.  It has also helped my stomach and made my heartburn go away.

Maya, i just held for 4 days and i felt worse go figure? So starting cutting today and like SG said you might just be in a wave and cutting is not causing the symptoms! @FLUTTER, My BP spiked up to 150-110 during a very stresfull time in may now its pretty much ok just would keep an eye on it ! And my pulse rate is alot of the ime over 90 ! ~CD

[[Ma...]]

CD,

i love your dog! I held Sat and Sun and it helped. Then I started cutting .001g instead of .003g a day. That is what I am doing now. If I am in a wave it's from MT which I started 8/31. Before that I was completely stable. I don't know what I should do. I am sorry holding didn't help you. Holding has always helped me, so far. I have noticed that is not always true for everyone at lower doses. Your dose is so low now! 

 

XO Maya

[[Fl...]]

@[FL...]

HEY CD,

I APPRECIATE THE INFO.

I'M FEELING BETTER RIGHT NOW.

ALL OF THIS JUST CREATED THE DOMINO EFFECT, AND I'M JUST TRYING TO GET BACK ON TRACK.

YESTERDAY I WAS SCARED. TODAY...I'M TYRING TO RE-ENFORCE POSITIVE THOUGHTS.

THANKS BUDDIE,

FLUTER 

[[ca...]]

@[FL...]

HEY CD,

I APPRECIATE THE INFO.

I'M FEELING BETTER RIGHT NOW.

ALL OF THIS JUST CREATED THE DOMINO EFFECT, AND I'M JUST TRYING TO GET BACK ON TRACK.

YESTERDAY I WAS SCARED. TODAY...I'M TYRING TO RE-ENFORCE POSITIVE THOUGHTS.

THANKS BUDDIE,

FLUTER 

FB, No problem these meds can basically do anything to our minds and bodies so i understand being scared heck i sure do ! ~ CD

[[Ma...]]

fluterbyee,

I agree with builder that if your blood pressure is seriously concerning you that you should go to a dr. I have always had really low blood pressure and I have been having BP spikes where it was even on the higher side of normal once, but it is just wd and I am healthy. I also had my heart checked because of heart palpitations, chest pains, racing heart etc. I had all tests done...echocardiogram, heart halter etc. my heart us healthy. Unfortunately, this is common in wd. I hope you feel better![/quote

Thank you Maya,

198/108 is very scary!

I went to my doc yesterday. I have a great pulse...just spiked pressure. Actually, it's all over the place. Last night it was very low. It's just frustrating...that's all.

I am now resetting my thought process to accept it as WD.

All of my labs were excellent, ekg good.

So, moving forward...I will hold until this wave passes.

Thank you,

Fluter 

Flutter,

I am sorry I missed your post earlier. That is scary! I'm glad that you went to the dr and everything is ok. It is crazy all the things that tapering does to our bodies. It is definitely frustrating! I'm glad you are able to accept as wd. I have done the same. It was scary when I was in tolerance wd and I had no idea and neither did my Drs what were causing my racing heart etc. was caused by klonopin. I just got a lot of tests and they said I was perfectly healthy. Now it all makes sense. I'm glad you are starting to feel better! 

 

XO Maya

[[Fl...]]

Flutter,

I am sorry I missed your post earlier. That is scary! I'm glad that you went to the dr and everything is ok. It is crazy all the things that tapering does to our bodies. It is definitely frustrating! I'm glad you are able to accept as wd. I have done the same. It was scary when I was in tolerance wd and I had no idea and neither did my Drs what were causing my racing heart etc. was caused by klonopin. I just got a lot of tests and they said I was perfectly healthy. Now it all makes sense. I'm glad you are starting to feel better! 

HI MAYA,

YEP, I DID GO TO MY DOC. THEY WORKED ME IN. I ALSO MADE AN APT WITH MY CARDIO JUST TO BE ON THE SAFE SIDE. I HAD A SIMILAR BP SPIKE IN 2013 AND HE SAID IT WAS STRESS INDUCED.

THERE ARE THINGS IN OUR LIVES THAT CAN OFTEN CREATE THE PERFECT STORM.

LAST WEEK WAS EXTREMELY STRESSFUL FOR ME, AND ADD TAPERING TO THAT, AND WELL, I ENDED UP IN THE ER.

JUST TRYING TO GET BACK ON TRACK NOW.

I TOO WAS IN TOLERANCE...THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO DIE.  A VERY GOOD BUDDIE HELPED ME GET STABLE AND ONTO THE MT. 

I THINK WHAT FREAKED ME OUT SO BAD WAS THAT I HAD BEEN DOING REALLY WELL, AND I WAS BLINDSIDED BY THIS.

I SEE THAT YOU ARE IN A RUFF PATCH AS WELL. IT OFTEN MAKES NO SENSE...DOES IT? 

WHEN I FIRST JOINED BB I LIVED ON YOU TUBE LISTENING TO MUSIC TO DISTRACT, WATCHING COMEDIES, ROCKING IN MY CHAIR...ANYTHING I COULD TO TRY AND DISTRACT.

I'M NOW BACK TO WORKING OUT TO TAE BO, AND WALKING.  IT HAS REALLY HELPED MY MUSCLES NOT FEEL AS STRESSED.

I DO HOPE YOU FEEL BETTER SOON...TRUST ME, I UNDERSTAND THE FEAR AND FRUSTRATION.

HEALING HUGS

FLUTER 

[[...]]

That's puzzling.  I don't see how cutting .001g for two days results in much of anything at your dose.  We know symptoms wax and wane and that we can have good days and bad days so it becomes difficult to tie cause and effect.  We also know placebo-like effects are very real.  I'm trying to make sense of it.  Maybe you need a long hold before you begin.  I don't think the symptoms are a result of the latest cuts.  I'd look for something else.

 

 

I'm puzzled, too. I didn't think those cuts could affect me either. The depression and fatigue are both symptoms that are from when I was in tolerance wd. My stomach issues I have had for awhile, so I don't know what is causing them to act up. The paresthesia is a symtom I have only when I started tapering again. If I made a small cut I either wouldn't get it or would just a little for 2 or 3 days at most. If I made too big of a cut it for bad. My symtoms have never tended to wax and wane. They come and then they go until I cut again. That could definitely be changing. I don't know how the placebo effect would pertain to what I am going through?

 

I don't see how a long hold would benefit me. I was at .3mg less than I am now in the beginning of August. I updosed and held before I started MT. Could cut/hold be better for me at my dose maybe? I wonder if because I metabolize klonopin so fast maybe I should try a small c/o to Valium. Also 3.5mg seems to be a hard dose for me. The last time I was at it things were bad. My body has become very sensitive. I'm so confused.

 

I can't see the paresthesia being caused my something besides the cuts since I start MTing. Nothing else makes sense. You say to look for something else, but there is nothing else. The only change is I'm now using .5mg teva pills instead of 1mg teva pills. On Friday when I started having bad sxs I started taking protonix twice a day as suggested by my GI, but as you told me before it slows the metabolism of klonopin.  It has also helped my stomach and made my heartburn go away.

 

It is possible that the change to .5mg from 1mg is the cause.  It was made by the same company, but is a different batch.  For all we know they may have been made by different people in a different facility.  Of everything you said that is the most suspicious to me.  I don't think the tolerance on these pills are as tight as we imagine them to be and we know it only takes a few percent to feel it.

[[Ma...]]

That's puzzling.  I don't see how cutting .001g for two days results in much of anything at your dose.  We know symptoms wax and wane and that we can have good days and bad days so it becomes difficult to tie cause and effect.  We also know placebo-like effects are very real.  I'm trying to make sense of it.  Maybe you need a long hold before you begin.  I don't think the symptoms are a result of the latest cuts.  I'd look for something else.

 

 

I'm puzzled, too. I didn't think those cuts could affect me either. The depression and fatigue are both symptoms that are from when I was in tolerance wd. My stomach issues I have had for awhile, so I don't know what is causing them to act up. The paresthesia is a symtom I have only when I started tapering again. If I made a small cut I either wouldn't get it or would just a little for 2 or 3 days at most. If I made too big of a cut it for bad. My symtoms have never tended to wax and wane. They come and then they go until I cut again. That could definitely be changing. I don't know how the placebo effect would pertain to what I am going through?

 

I don't see how a long hold would benefit me. I was at .3mg less than I am now in the beginning of August. I updosed and held before I started MT. Could cut/hold be better for me at my dose maybe? I wonder if because I metabolize klonopin so fast maybe I should try a small c/o to Valium. Also 3.5mg seems to be a hard dose for me. The last time I was at it things were bad. My body has become very sensitive. I'm so confused.

 

I can't see the paresthesia being caused my something besides the cuts since I start MTing. Nothing else makes sense. You say to look for something else, but there is nothing else. The only change is I'm now using .5mg teva pills instead of 1mg teva pills. On Friday when I started having bad sxs I started taking protonix twice a day as suggested by my GI, but as you told me before it slows the metabolism of klonopin.  It has also helped my stomach and made my heartburn go away.

 

It is possible that the change to .5mg from 1mg is the cause.  It was made by the same company, but is a different batch.  For all we know they may have been made by different people in a different facility.  Of everything you said that is the most suspicious to me.  I don't think the tolerance on these pills are as tight as we imagine them to be and we know it only takes a few percent to feel it.

I was taking .5mg pills out of that batch since May at night before I evened out my doses. I would be surprised if that is the problem I am having now. You know more than me though. Should I go back to the 1mg pills? Do you think maybe I should do cut/hold until I get to a lower dose or maybe add Valium? This is a lot harder than it has been or should be. Thank you for your help!

[[Ma...]]

Flutter,

I am sorry I missed your post earlier. That is scary! I'm glad that you went to the dr and everything is ok. It is crazy all the things that tapering does to our bodies. It is definitely frustrating! I'm glad you are able to accept as wd. I have done the same. It was scary when I was in tolerance wd and I had no idea and neither did my Drs what were causing my racing heart etc. was caused by klonopin. I just got a lot of tests and they said I was perfectly healthy. Now it all makes sense. I'm glad you are starting to feel better! 

HI MAYA,

YEP, I DID GO TO MY DOC. THEY WORKED ME IN. I ALSO MADE AN APT WITH MY CARDIO JUST TO BE ON THE SAFE SIDE. I HAD A SIMILAR BP SPIKE IN 2013 AND HE SAID IT WAS STRESS INDUCED.

THERE ARE THINGS IN OUR LIVES THAT CAN OFTEN CREATE THE PERFECT STORM.

LAST WEEK WAS EXTREMELY STRESSFUL FOR ME, AND ADD TAPERING TO THAT, AND WELL, I ENDED UP IN THE ER.

JUST TRYING TO GET BACK ON TRACK NOW.

I TOO WAS IN TOLERANCE...THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO DIE.  A VERY GOOD BUDDIE HELPED ME GET STABLE AND ONTO THE MT. 

I THINK WHAT FREAKED ME OUT SO BAD WAS THAT I HAD BEEN DOING REALLY WELL, AND I WAS BLINDSIDED BY THIS.

I SEE THAT YOU ARE IN A RUFF PATCH AS WELL. IT OFTEN MAKES NO SENSE...DOES IT? 

WHEN I FIRST JOINED BB I LIVED ON YOU TUBE LISTENING TO MUSIC TO DISTRACT, WATCHING COMEDIES, ROCKING IN MY CHAIR...ANYTHING I COULD TO TRY AND DISTRACT.

I'M NOW BACK TO WORKING OUT TO TAE BO, AND WALKING.  IT HAS REALLY HELPED MY MUSCLES NOT FEEL AS STRESSED.

I DO HOPE YOU FEEL BETTER SOON...TRUST ME, I UNDERSTAND THE FEAR AND FRUSTRATION.

HEALING HUGS

FLUTER 

Flutter,

That's good. It will just give you peace of mind to know you're healthy. I'm sorry last week was stressful for you. Stressors on top of a taper is very hard! It makes no sense to me at all! I'm glad you have found things that really help you! Thank you so much! 

 

XO Maya

[[...]]

It is possible that the change to .5mg from 1mg is the cause.  It was made by the same company, but is a different batch.  For all we know they may have been made by different people in a different facility.  Of everything you said that is the most suspicious to me.  I don't think the tolerance on these pills are as tight as we imagine them to be and we know it only takes a few percent to feel it.

I was taking .5mg pills out of that batch since May at night before I evened out my doses. I would be surprised if that is the problem I am having now. You know more than me though. Should I go back to the 1mg pills? Do you think maybe I should do cut/hold until I get to a lower dose or maybe add Valium? This is a lot harder than it has been or should be. Thank you for your help!

 

You are having symptoms consistent with a quick drop in dose so the pill batch switch fit that, but if you have been using them all along it does not fit.  You've already paid the price so I would stick with them if it were me.

 

When we cut and hold we remove the drug days or even weeks before the body is ready.  Doing that makes little sense to me.

 

You need to dose 4x a day so dosing even more frequently or switching to V might make sense to try.  It will even out peaks and valleys.  But you were able to feel good with this setup so it makes me wonder if you have been the victim of bad luck with the various changes that have been going on.  Something made your blood level drop.

[[Ma...]]

It is possible that the change to .5mg from 1mg is the cause.  It was made by the same company, but is a different batch.  For all we know they may have been made by different people in a different facility.  Of everything you said that is the most suspicious to me.  I don't think the tolerance on these pills are as tight as we imagine them to be and we know it only takes a few percent to feel it.

I was taking .5mg pills out of that batch since May at night before I evened out my doses. I would be surprised if that is the problem I am having now. You know more than me though. Should I go back to the 1mg pills? Do you think maybe I should do cut/hold until I get to a lower dose or maybe add Valium? This is a lot harder than it has been or should be. Thank you for your help!

 

You are having symptoms consistent with a quick drop in dose so the pill batch switch fit that, but if you have been using them all along it does not fit.  You've already paid the price so I would stick with them if it were me.

 

When we cut and hold we remove the drug days or even weeks before the body is ready.  Doing that makes little sense to me.

 

You need to dose 4x a day so dosing even more frequently or switching to V might make sense to try.  It will even out peaks and valleys.  But you were able to feel good with this setup so it makes me wonder if you have been the victim of bad luck with the various changes that have been going on.  Something made your blood level drop.

That is what my symptoms seem to be like to me. I was taking the .5mg A's one of my four doses until around 8/20 when I evened out my doses. I will stick with the .5mg pills then.

 

When I did cut/hold, besides when I cut too much, my sxs would start getting better after day 3 and then I would stabilize by day 10. I really thought that MT would be a smoother taper. That is what everyone says. The only difference I see with myself is that I don't see anyone micro tapering at my dose.

 

I have been having some interdose wd even with the 4 doses. I have always metabolized klonopin fast, but it has gotten worse. I see you pdoc on Oct 13th. If things are not better by then I will talk to him about a partial c/o to Valium. I'm not sure if he will allow it. I also hope I would tolerate it well. I don't want anymore setbacks. I definitely had not had good luck with any changes I have made lately. I don't know what would have made my blood level drop. I have researched everything I take. I don't take a lot either...just some vitamins and supplements. The same ones I have been on for years. The only thing I can think of that is different is the depo shot, but it doesn't make sense really. I last had it in the beginning of April. It should be out of my system by now. I just don't understand. Maybe I have to taper with these sxs right now. Maybe I can't be that functional. I really was hoping that would not be the case. Fortunately, I don't have to work. I would like to be able to keep appts and leave my house and see my family and friends. I will do what I have to to get off klonopin. I will stop babbling. Thank you for continuing to help me through the disastrous taoer I have been having lately. I am so grateful for you!

 

 

[[...]]

You are having symptoms consistent with a quick drop in dose so the pill batch switch fit that, but if you have been using them all along it does not fit.  You've already paid the price so I would stick with them if it were me.

 

When we cut and hold we remove the drug days or even weeks before the body is ready.  Doing that makes little sense to me.

 

You need to dose 4x a day so dosing even more frequently or switching to V might make sense to try.  It will even out peaks and valleys.  But you were able to feel good with this setup so it makes me wonder if you have been the victim of bad luck with the various changes that have been going on.  Something made your blood level drop.

That is what my symptoms seem to be like to me. I was taking the .5mg A's one of my four doses until around 8/20 when I evened out my doses. I will stick with the .5mg pills then.

 

When I did cut/hold, besides when I cut too much, my sxs would start getting better after day 3 and then I would stabilize by day 10. I really thought that MT would be a smoother taper. That is what everyone says. The only difference I see with myself is that I don't see anyone micro tapering at my dose.

 

I have been having some interdose wd even with the 4 doses. I have always metabolized klonopin fast, but it has gotten worse. I see you pdoc on Oct 13th. If things are not better by then I will talk to him about a partial c/o to Valium. I'm not sure if he will allow it. I also hope I would tolerate it well. I don't want anymore setbacks. I definitely had not had good luck with any changes I have made lately. I don't know what would have made my blood level drop. I have researched everything I take. I don't take a lot either...just some vitamins and supplements. The same ones I have been on for years. The only thing I can think of that is different is the depo shot, but it doesn't make sense really. I last had it in the beginning of April. It should be out of my system by now. I just don't understand. Maybe I have to taper with these sxs right now. Maybe I can't be that functional. I really was hoping that would not be the case. Fortunately, I don't have to work. I would like to be able to keep appts and leave my house and see my family and friends. I will do what I have to to get off klonopin. I will stop babbling. Thank you for continuing to help me through the disastrous taoer I have been having lately. I am so grateful for you!

 

You'll find your pace.  This won't last.  If you still get interdose symptoms going to five or six doses might be worth a try.  And I don't know how your diet is, but getting rid of processed foods is a good idea as MSG is hidden in them.  I wish we could put our finger on something specific.

[[Ma...]]

You are having symptoms consistent with a quick drop in dose so the pill batch switch fit that, but if you have been using them all along it does not fit.  You've already paid the price so I would stick with them if it were me.

 

When we cut and hold we remove the drug days or even weeks before the body is ready.  Doing that makes little sense to me.

 

You need to dose 4x a day so dosing even more frequently or switching to V might make sense to try.  It will even out peaks and valleys.  But you were able to feel good with this setup so it makes me wonder if you have been the victim of bad luck with the various changes that have been going on.  Something made your blood level drop.

That is what my symptoms seem to be like to me. I was taking the .5mg A's one of my four doses until around 8/20 when I evened out my doses. I will stick with the .5mg pills then.

 

When I did cut/hold, besides when I cut too much, my sxs would start getting better after day 3 and then I would stabilize by day 10. I really thought that MT would be a smoother taper. That is what everyone says. The only difference I see with myself is that I don't see anyone micro tapering at my dose.

 

I have been having some interdose wd even with the 4 doses. I have always metabolized klonopin fast, but it has gotten worse. I see you pdoc on Oct 13th. If things are not better by then I will talk to him about a partial c/o to Valium. I'm not sure if he will allow it. I also hope I would tolerate it well. I don't want anymore setbacks. I definitely had not had good luck with any changes I have made lately. I don't know what would have made my blood level drop. I have researched everything I take. I don't take a lot either...just some vitamins and supplements. The same ones I have been on for years. The only thing I can think of that is different is the depo shot, but it doesn't make sense really. I last had it in the beginning of April. It should be out of my system by now. I just don't understand. Maybe I have to taper with these sxs right now. Maybe I can't be that functional. I really was hoping that would not be the case. Fortunately, I don't have to work. I would like to be able to keep appts and leave my house and see my family and friends. I will do what I have to to get off klonopin. I will stop babbling. Thank you for continuing to help me through the disastrous taoer I have been having lately. I am so grateful for you!

 

You'll find your pace.  This won't last.  If you still get interdose symptoms going to five or six doses might be worth a try.  And I don't know how your diet is, but getting rid of processed foods is a good idea as MSG is hidden in them.  I wish we could put our finger on something specific.

Thanks for the reassurance! I hope it happens soon! I guess for now I will just cut .001g a day and then hold if it gets to be too much to handle. Maybe in a week or two if I am still having interdose wd adding in a dose or two. Then I will reevaluate possibly adding Valium if things are still bad when I see my pdoc in a little over a month. I don't want to change anything for at least a week because I'm scared of changing things because they seem to get worse every time I do, lately. I want to give my body a break. Do you think that makes sense?

 

I try not to eat a lot of processed foods. I avoid certain foods like gluten, onions etc. that are bad for IBS and gluten. I have listened to the suggestions of my GI. My stomach issues were under control until I started tapering. I want to see a nutritionist. I do need to make some changes in my diet. Right now my stomach is being unpredictable and I'm trying to just eat very blan food. Also I will start seeing an acupuncturist on the 21st and he also does herbs and gives advice on nutrition. I really think that will help.

 

I am just gOing to go give up on trying to find a cause and accept they ways things are now and move forward. Thank you for trying to help me figure it out!

[[...]]

You'll find your pace.  This won't last.  If you still get interdose symptoms going to five or six doses might be worth a try.  And I don't know how your diet is, but getting rid of processed foods is a good idea as MSG is hidden in them.  I wish we could put our finger on something specific.

Thanks for the reassurance! I hope it happens soon! I guess for now I will just cut .001g a day and then hold if it gets to be too much to handle. Maybe in a week or two if I am still having interdose wd adding in a dose or two. Then I will reevaluate possibly adding Valium if things are still bad when I see my pdoc in a little over a month. I don't want to change anything for at least a week because I'm scared of changing things because they seem to get worse every time I do, lately. I want to give my body a break. Do you think that makes sense?

 

I try not to eat a lot of processed foods. I avoid certain foods like gluten, onions etc. that are bad for IBS and gluten. I have listened to the suggestions of my GI. My stomach issues were under control until I started tapering. I want to see a nutritionist. I do need to make some changes in my diet. Right now my stomach is being unpredictable and I'm trying to just eat very blan food. Also I will start seeing an acupuncturist on the 21st and he also does herbs and gives advice on nutrition. I really think that will help.

 

I am just gOing to go give up on trying to find a cause and accept they ways things are now and move forward. Thank you for trying to help me figure it out!

 

That makes sense to me.  Not changing anything is a good idea.  Your taper rate is very modest, which, if you are going to taper under these conditions, is the way to go.  Is the .001g cut from a 1mg pill or a .5mg pill?  Either one is slow.  With foods, MSG can make things bad for us, symptoms-wise.

[[Ma...]]

You'll find your pace.  This won't last.  If you still get interdose symptoms going to five or six doses might be worth a try.  And I don't know how your diet is, but getting rid of processed foods is a good idea as MSG is hidden in them.  I wish we could put our finger on something specific.

Thanks for the reassurance! I hope it happens soon! I guess for now I will just cut .001g a day and then hold if it gets to be too much to handle. Maybe in a week or two if I am still having interdose wd adding in a dose or two. Then I will reevaluate possibly adding Valium if things are still bad when I see my pdoc in a little over a month. I don't want to change anything for at least a week because I'm scared of changing things because they seem to get worse every time I do, lately. I want to give my body a break. Do you think that makes sense?

 

I try not to eat a lot of processed foods. I avoid certain foods like gluten, onions etc. that are bad for IBS and gluten. I have listened to the suggestions of my GI. My stomach issues were under control until I started tapering. I want to see a nutritionist. I do need to make some changes in my diet. Right now my stomach is being unpredictable and I'm trying to just eat very blan food. Also I will start seeing an acupuncturist on the 21st and he also does herbs and gives advice on nutrition. I really think that will help.

 

I am just gOing to go give up on trying to find a cause and accept they ways things are now and move forward. Thank you for trying to help me figure it out!

 

That makes sense to me.  Not changing anything is a good idea.  Your taper rate is very modest, which, if you are going to taper under these conditions, is the way to go.  Is the .001g cut from a 1mg pill or a .5mg pill?  Either one is slow.  With foods, MSG can make things bad for us, symptoms-wise.

Ok, good. I will do that. It is very modest! It is much slower than I have ever tapered. I am taking all .5mg pills since I started MT on 8/31. 8 pills a day. I will hold if it gets unbearable. I just need to be moving forward at least a tiny bit if I can. I definitely have not had any MSG recently. I am eating bland stuff like eggs and gluten free toast, plain veggies or bananas, plain chicken and rice etc. I will be careful to check for MSG if I'm not sure what is in something. You don't think that there is any chance a MT is harder on my body at my dose because the cuts are bigger than they would be at a low dose? That is the only other thing, I can think of that might be an issue. If not then I will just accept that I can't explain why it is so hard for me right now. I'm sorry for bothering you so much.

[[...]]

That makes sense to me.  Not changing anything is a good idea.  Your taper rate is very modest, which, if you are going to taper under these conditions, is the way to go.  Is the .001g cut from a 1mg pill or a .5mg pill?  Either one is slow.  With foods, MSG can make things bad for us, symptoms-wise.

Ok, good. I will do that. It is very modest! It is much slower than I have ever tapered. I am taking all .5mg pills since I started MT on 8/31. 8 pills a day. I will hold if it gets unbearable. I just need to be moving forward at least a tiny bit if I can. I definitely have not had any MSG recently. I am eating bland stuff like eggs and gluten free toast, plain veggies or bananas, plain chicken and rice etc. I will be careful to check for MSG if I'm not sure what is in something. You don't think that there is any chance a MT is harder on my body at my dose because the cuts are bigger than they would be at a low dose? That is the only other thing, I can think of that might be an issue. If not then I will just accept that I can't explain why it is so hard for me right now. I'm sorry for bothering you so much.

 

FWIW, I think you will eventually be able to taper much quicker than this.  It would be extremely unusual for you to need to taper below 5% a month the entire way.  I think you have just had bad luck with things that made your blood level drop.  My understanding of tapering is that what matters is how many receptors are exposed with a cut, and that depends on dose.  At very high doses bigger cuts expose the same amount of receptors that a smaller cut would expose at a lower dose.  I think this is something that we can rely on to be true.  Keep making the small cut and give it a few weeks.  Hopefully you will trend toward few symptoms as you go.

[[Ma...]]

That makes sense to me.  Not changing anything is a good idea.  Your taper rate is very modest, which, if you are going to taper under these conditions, is the way to go.  Is the .001g cut from a 1mg pill or a .5mg pill?  Either one is slow.  With foods, MSG can make things bad for us, symptoms-wise.

Ok, good. I will do that. It is very modest! It is much slower than I have ever tapered. I am taking all .5mg pills since I started MT on 8/31. 8 pills a day. I will hold if it gets unbearable. I just need to be moving forward at least a tiny bit if I can. I definitely have not had any MSG recently. I am eating bland stuff like eggs and gluten free toast, plain veggies or bananas, plain chicken and rice etc. I will be careful to check for MSG if I'm not sure what is in something. You don't think that there is any chance a MT is harder on my body at my dose because the cuts are bigger than they would be at a low dose? That is the only other thing, I can think of that might be an issue. If not then I will just accept that I can't explain why it is so hard for me right now. I'm sorry for bothering you so much.

 

FWIW, I think you will eventually be able to taper much quicker than this.  It would be extremely unusual for you to need to taper below 5% a month the entire way.  I think you have just had bad luck with things that made your blood level drop.  My understanding of tapering is that what matters is how many receptors are exposed with a cut, and that depends on dose.  At very high doses bigger cuts expose the same amount of receptors that a smaller cut would expose at a lower dose.  I think this is something that we can rely on to be true.  Keep making the small cut and give it a few weeks.  Hopefully you will trend toward few symptoms as you go.

Thanks, I'm glad you think so. I definitely think so, too! There is something going on where my body need to regulate. I can tell something is not right. I will keep making the small cuts and give it a couple weeks. Thank you again for all your help! Hopefully, I won't have to bother you for awhile!