Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

Anyone,

Just wondering - when you do a liquid micro-taper and with vodka and water - do you have to stir it before you use it each day?

 

  Probably not necessary but it certainly won't hurt.

 

And also , if you use a liquid diazepam for microtitrating - how much do you dilute it ?  1 ml to 99 mls water? And then you do your daily titration from there , whatever amount I decide is manageable ? I'm math challenged and want to start microtitrating as soon as I'm well enough - but want to make sure I know what I'm talking about when I go see my doctor. 

 

You can choose any dilution ratio you please.  I usually did 9:1 (10% solution), sometimes 4.5:1 (5% solution)  But most folks seem to prefer 99:1 (1%) solution.  Folks seem to feel that the math is simpler.  (But whether you do  9:1, or 99:1, the only difference is whetehr you move the decimal point 1 place or 2 places)

 

Not sure I'm understanding the liquid Valium titration way.  I would be doing pills and then liquid for titrating one ml per 20 days or per month. 

 

 

It's really pretty simple.  All your doing is taking most of your dose by tablets, and just the "cut" portion from the ;liquid, usually not more than 1mg of liquid.  And I assume you really mean 1mg/20 days.

 

For example, if your at 32.5mg and want to cut 1mg in 20 days, that's a .05 daily cut (1/20=.05). If you make a 99:1 solution (1mg in 100 mls)  then you would take 32mg tablets, and .45mg (45ml).  Then 32mg+.40mg (40ml), 32mg+.35mg (35ml) etc.

 

But if you already have ascrip for Rx lqiud V, why do you want to do vodka?

Thank you everyone !

I don't have a script for liquid.  I don't know if my doc will give me one.  So I want to be prepared and the 99:1 ratio seems easy to me, I just don't get how to measure 3 decimals on a syringe.  I don't mean to be dumb but I'm just not sure.  I have a ten ml syringe.  Is it the tiny lines in between the  ml marks?  And I did mean mg not ml before.  Thanks for your help!

I get the 99:1 stuff , just not the 9:1 and how to measure with the syringe.

 

Heya...

Well, you'd use the 10 ml syringe to make your batch.

1 mgr pill ( half of a two mgr tab ) in 1 ml vodka. Then you add 99 ml water, which makes a liquid of 100 ml..

You use the ten ml syringe to draw up the ml vodka . And then to draw up the 99 ml water.

 

I think what's might be confusing you is the three decimals.

Those are milligrams , not milliliters.

That why you liquefy your dose, so you can cut small increments.

 

Does that make sense ?

 

 

And since you will be cutting the liquid portion , you can cut very small.

 

Yeah, if I do 99 : 1 I throw away 5 mls first day 10 mls second day and so forth.  That makes the most sense to me. anyway when I start maybe I will get in touch with you would that be ok?  I have to get semi functional first I think.  I don't know how long that's going to take.  And if it doesn't happen soon I just might start the micro taper anyway to see how it goes, doing 3 mls reductions at a time.  Do you hold after you are done with the whole cut or do you just keep going on to the next mg and start liquid titrating again? Just wondering....

That's why it's done this way.

[[Mo...]]

Anyone,

Just wondering - when you do a liquid micro-taper and with vodka and water - do you have to stir it before you use it each day?

 

  Probably not necessary but it certainly won't hurt.

 

And also , if you use a liquid diazepam for microtitrating - how much do you dilute it ?  1 ml to 99 mls water? And then you do your daily titration from there , whatever amount I decide is manageable ? I'm math challenged and want to start microtitrating as soon as I'm well enough - but want to make sure I know what I'm talking about when I go see my doctor. 

 

You can choose any dilution ratio you please.  I usually did 9:1 (10% solution), sometimes 4.5:1 (5% solution)  But most folks seem to prefer 99:1 (1%) solution.  Folks seem to feel that the math is simpler.  (But whether you do  9:1, or 99:1, the only difference is whetehr you move the decimal point 1 place or 2 places)

 

Not sure I'm understanding the liquid Valium titration way.  I would be doing pills and then liquid for titrating one ml per 20 days or per month. 

 

 

It's really pretty simple.  All your doing is taking most of your dose by tablets, and just the "cut" portion from the ;liquid, usually not more than 1mg of liquid.  And I assume you really mean 1mg/20 days.

 

For example, if your at 32.5mg and want to cut 1mg in 20 days, that's a .05 daily cut (1/20=.05). If you make a 99:1 solution (1mg in 100 mls)  then you would take 32mg tablets, and .45mg (45ml).  Then 32mg+.40mg (40ml), 32mg+.35mg (35ml) etc.

 

But if you already have ascrip for Rx lqiud V, why do you want to do vodka?

Thank you everyone !

I don't have a script for liquid.  I don't know if my doc will give me one.  So I want to be prepared and the 99:1 ratio seems easy to me, I just don't get how to measure 3 decimals on a syringe.  I don't mean to be dumb but I'm just not sure.  I have a ten ml syringe.  Is it the tiny lines in between the  ml marks?  And I did mean mg not ml before.  Thanks for your help!

I get the 99:1 stuff , just not the 9:1 and how to measure with the syringe.

 

Heya...

Well, you'd use the 10 ml syringe to make your batch.

1 mgr pill ( half of a two mgr tab ) in 1 ml vodka. Then you add 99 ml water, which makes a liquid of 100 ml..

You use the ten ml syringe to draw up the ml vodka . And then to draw up the 99 ml water.

 

I think what's might be confusing you is the three decimals.

Those are milligrams , not milliliters.

That why you liquefy your dose, so you can cut small increments.

 

Does that make sense ?

 

 

And since you will be cutting the liquid portion , you can cut very small.

 

Yeah, if I do 99 : 1 I throw away 5 mls first day 10 mls second day and so forth.  That makes the most sense to me. anyway when I start maybe I will get in touch with you would that be ok?  I have to get semi functional first I think.  I don't know how long that's going to take.  And if it doesn't happen soon I just might start the micro taper anyway to see how it goes, doing 3 mls reductions at a time.  Do you hold after you are done with the whole cut or do you just keep going on to the next mg and start liquid titrating again? Just wondering....

That's why it's done this way.

 

Anytime is good. When you're ready.

No, no need to hold. Maybe when you get down in dose..

If you feel you need to, you can. That's a good thing about a micro taper.

 

You can make more batches than one , also. For a few days at a time.

No refrigeration needed.

And you could save what you've got left for the next batches, too. I think Diaz Pam did that, too

 

Hope you feel a bit better soon..

[[ga...]]

Thank you! I'm am VERY surprised, as well! That is a very gentle start. I think they are definitely withdrawal symptoms, at least the paresthesia and muscle pain. My stomach issues and exhaustion I think are, but I'm not sure. I am not getting enough sleep due to my stomach mainly it seems. Maybe my body is just adjusting to the MT? If you think I should try and ride it out, I will try. I am concerned that I have important appts coming up that I will not be able to reschedule and may owe money for canceling. I thought I would be at a functioning point or I wouldn't have made them. I can see what I can do about rearranging things.  If not I guess I should hold? Then slow down rate of taper and see how that goes? I really don't know what to do. Is it possible that I might just not be functional for awhile? I am willing to go as slow as needed if that's what's best. I am trying to decide if I should cancel anything in the near future. I don't understand why tapering has become so much harder. Thank you for helping me! I'm very lost right now.

 

Maya, I'm not doing well at 10% and am slowing down to closer to 5% to see if that helps. It could be it's because I'm at that magic line. Or it could be because I went through severe interdose withdrawal (under that ding-dong psych nurse) for so long that I am now hyper-sensitive to cuts. I also suspect there are certain outside stressors (triggers and toxic people) that are increasing my anxiety and need to be dealt with. Talked about these stressors with my therapist today. She agreed that some people in my life are behaving inappropriately and triggering my anxiety. She suggested I get them out of my life ASAP. Fortunately, these are not long-term relationships and will be relatively easy to trim away. We also discussed how much longer this taper is going to take than I originally thought. So other adjustments need to be made as well. While I'm doing this life-rearranging, I think 5% or even a hold is a better rate for me.

 

Regarding the healing skin analogy. Yes, your skin can heal and so can your brain. But even the skin takes time. And if you keep scratching at it while it's trying to scab over, it's not going to heal very well, if at all. Maybe the dose cuts are like that, too. The brain is trying to heal but the next dose cut comes before its ready. Then it is struggling to heal from both the old cut and the new cut at a the same time. Ouch!

 

I think a hold might be a good idea for you. And also thinking about ways you can reduce stress in your life during this taper. I'm working through that myself. It's not easy, but I think that if we can balance the right amount of stress with the right rate of taper, this can get better for us. We'll get through this!

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

I announced this on my blog but I can't resist repeating it.

As of today I am below the equivalence of 1mg Xanax/day!!

 

 

 

 

And if my math is wrong, I don't want to know!!

 

Hi Gardner.

 

Thank you. Yes, it has been a very busy two weeks.  Things might start to slow down a bit soon.

 

Congratulations on getting down to below 1 mg!!!  You have done a great job.  I know it has been challenging, but I hope that you are feeling better since including the Librium.  You will be off before you know it!!  Promise not to look at the math haha.

 

Anne

 

Thanks, Anne. Yes, I am getting windows half-crossed to Librium and am functioning better. I'm going really slowly, though. Just curious, what's your current taper rate?

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

Gardener,

 

I still cannot insert an image in my post. Instead I inserted the URL.  I signed up for Photobucket. Can you tell me again how to insert the image?

 

Thanks so much

 

Anne

 

In the bar above your post, when you're typing, you'll see a Mona Lisa icon, right next to the emoticons.

You click that.

And you'll see this

 

You past the url in between , in the middle. That should do it.

 

Yup, the secret is the little Mona Lisa.

[[an...]]

I announced this on my blog but I can't resist repeating it.

As of today I am below the equivalence of 1mg Xanax/day!!

 

 

 

 

And if my math is wrong, I don't want to know!!

 

Hi Gardner.

 

Thank you. Yes, it has been a very busy two weeks.  Things might start to slow down a bit soon.

 

Congratulations on getting down to below 1 mg!!!  You have done a great job.  I know it has been challenging, but I hope that you are feeling better since including the Librium.  You will be off before you know it!!  Promise not to look at the math haha.

 

Anne

 

Thanks, Anne. Yes, I am getting windows half-crossed to Librium and am functioning better. I'm going really slowly, though. Just curious, what's your current taper rate?

 

Gard

 

Gardner,

I am glad to hear that you are doing better. Just go as slow as you need to.  Slow is key.  I taper about 7 - 10% every two weeks. This worked for me the first time, and it is working again.  I am more symptomatic this time around, but that is because I did not updose enough to get stable. Things are a lot better now though. I know if things were to get bad, I do have the option to add another dose, but I do not think I will need to do that.

 

Enjoy the holiday weekend!!

Anne

[[an...]]

Thank you! I'm am VERY surprised, as well! That is a very gentle start. I think they are definitely withdrawal symptoms, at least the paresthesia and muscle pain. My stomach issues and exhaustion I think are, but I'm not sure. I am not getting enough sleep due to my stomach mainly it seems. Maybe my body is just adjusting to the MT? If you think I should try and ride it out, I will try. I am concerned that I have important appts coming up that I will not be able to reschedule and may owe money for canceling. I thought I would be at a functioning point or I wouldn't have made them. I can see what I can do about rearranging things.  If not I guess I should hold? Then slow down rate of taper and see how that goes? I really don't know what to do. Is it possible that I might just not be functional for awhile? I am willing to go as slow as needed if that's what's best. I am trying to decide if I should cancel anything in the near future. I don't understand why tapering has become so much harder. Thank you for helping me! I'm very lost right now.

 

Maya, I'm not doing well at 10% and am slowing down to closer to 5% to see if that helps. It could be it's because I'm at that magic line. Or it could be because I went through severe interdose withdrawal (under that ding-dong psych nurse) for so long that I am now hyper-sensitive to cuts. I also suspect there are certain outside stressors (triggers and toxic people) that are increasing my anxiety and need to be dealt with. Talked about these stressors with my therapist today. She agreed that some people in my life are behaving inappropriately and triggering my anxiety. She suggested I get them out of my life ASAP. Fortunately, these are not long-term relationships and will be relatively easy to trim away. We also discussed how much longer this taper is going to take than I originally thought. So other adjustments need to be made as well. While I'm doing this life-rearranging, I think 5% or even a hold is a better rate for me.

 

Regarding the healing skin analogy. Yes, your skin can heal and so can your brain. But even the skin takes time. And if you keep scratching at it while it's trying to scab over, it's not going to heal very well, if at all. Maybe the dose cuts are like that, too. The brain is trying to heal but the next dose cut comes before its ready. Then it is struggling to heal from both the old cut and the new cut at a the same time. Ouch!

 

I think a hold might be a good idea for you. And also thinking about ways you can reduce stress in your life during this taper. I'm working through that myself. It's not easy, but I think that if we can balance the right amount of stress with the right rate of taper, this can get better for us. We'll get through this!

 

Gard

 

Gardner,

 

I love the skin healing analogy!!  So true!!

 

Anne

[[Ma...]]

Maya, I'm not doing well at 10% and am slowing down to closer to 5% to see if that helps. It could be it's because I'm at that magic line. Or it could be because I went through severe interdose withdrawal (under that ding-dong psych nurse) for so long that I am now hyper-sensitive to cuts. I also suspect there are certain outside stressors (triggers and toxic people) that are increasing my anxiety and need to be dealt with. Talked about these stressors with my therapist today. She agreed that some people in my life are behaving inappropriately and triggering my anxiety. She suggested I get them out of my life ASAP. Fortunately, these are not long-term relationships and will be relatively easy to trim away. We also discussed how much longer this taper is going to take than I originally thought. So other adjustments need to be made as well. While I'm doing this life-rearranging, I think 5% or even a hold is a better rate for me.

 

Regarding the healing skin analogy. Yes, your skin can heal and so can your brain. But even the skin takes time. And if you keep scratching at it while it's trying to scab over, it's not going to heal very well, if at all. Maybe the dose cuts are like that, too. The brain is trying to heal but the next dose cut comes before its ready. Then it is struggling to heal from both the old cut and the new cut at a the same time. Ouch!

 

I think a hold might be a good idea for you. And also thinking about ways you can reduce stress in your life during this taper. I'm working through that myself. It's not easy, but I think that if we can balance the right amount of stress with the right rate of taper, this can get better for us. We'll get through this!

 

Gard

Gardener,

I am sorry you are having a hard time at 10%. Maybe try 8% first instead of going to 5%. I think I'm at may be at my magic line, too. I know 3.5mg of klonopin is a lot to most, but I was once on 8mg. I'm glad you are getting rid out of outside stressors and that they are relatively easy to get rid off. If you need to hold while you rearrange things do it.

 

I know both our skin and are brain heal remarkably. I was just saying to me daily cuts if k didn't seem to be like cutting your skin. I was out of it. I still am. I am tired. Your analogy makes perfect sense.

 

I'm going to do a short hold, just a day or two and then I will start at 5%. It is discouraging because I was cutting 5% every 10 days with cut/hold. I was shocked that 7.5% a month MT caused problems. I think I am just at a hard point in my taper where I need to go extra slow and I will be able to speed up later. I really hope so! I will be tapering at least 2 years probably. I have had a lot of trauma in my life. Right now, I don't have a lot of stress in my life. I have cut out stressors. I also am in therapy. I will be starting acupuncture and TCM soon. I think that will be helpful. I agree I think it will get better for us! We will get through this! I have no doubt in my mind. Thanks for all your help, positivity, and encouragement! It really means a lot! I hope you sleep well!

:smitten:

 

XO Maya

[[...]]

Hi All,

    Made it through my mom's funeral last Tues, updosed once that night and am back down to .39mg/24hrs. I did pay for it though, soon as the next lower dose caught up with me. Went through a couple days of nasty W/D's, but seem to be stable now. Maybe some of the increased symptoms were stress related. I also noticed the increased need for sleep, like 10+ hours, which is crazy, I have food in the garden to get put up before the season changes! Hope things are going good for you guys, Rose

[[Kg...]]

Rose:  So sorry about your Mom.  And yes I would think all of  your added symptoms are related to stress plus your exhaustion.  It is your body telling you it needs to re-coup so let it and just sleep if you need to.  If it were me I would be holding for a bit and perhaps not cut again for about a week until I felt a little better. 

[[be...]]

Hi builder: Are you here? Or anybody else?

 

I have a question that I hope someone can figure out for me. I want to know what % I am dropping every 14 days off my K. My average weight is 170 of K and I am dropping by .001 grams every 10 out of 14 days. Right now I am at .25 mg. Can anybody please do the math for me? Thank you very much. I would like to know what my % cut is every 14 days.

[[an...]]

Hi builder: Are you here? Or anybody else?

 

I have a question that I hope someone can figure out for me. I want to know what % I am dropping every 14 days off my K. My average weight is 170 of K and I am dropping by .001 grams every 10 out of 14 days. Right now I am at .25 mg. Can anybody please do the math for me? Thank you very much. I would like to know what my % cut is every 14 days.

 

dose dropped over 10 days is 0.001 x 10 = 0.01 mg  over 10 days

 

If you are at 0.25 mg and drop 0.01 mg in two weeks, you will have cut by 0.01 / 0.25 * 100 = 4%

 

 

[[...]]

Rose:  So sorry about your Mom.  And yes I would think all of  your added symptoms are related to stress plus your exhaustion.  It is your body telling you it needs to re-coup so let it and just sleep if you need to.  If it were me I would be holding for a bit and perhaps not cut again for about a week until I felt a little better.

 

 

Kgirl, Thank-you for your condolences, I appreciate it. And thanks for confirming my thoughts too, now I feel not so bad for holding for a bit, for some reason I felt like I would be failing if I did that. I know, I am being too hard on myself. I hope you have a great weekend and are doing well. It is great to have such helpful people on this thread such as  yourself, Anne, Builder, SG, Gardener99, Maya, Sharkey and others who give their time and energy. It's good to have people help hold a person up when a person can't hardly hold themselves up. And I believe by helping others we are also helping ourselves!

[[Kg...]]

Rose:  You are so nice and yes I think by helping others we help ourselves but that is not why we do it.  I think it is just in some people's basic nature and you are one of them.  So many wonderful people here that make us feel we are not alone, that we will succeed and support us during those times when we feel like we can't go on.

[[be...]]

Hi builder: Are you here? Or anybody else?

 

I have a question that I hope someone can figure out for me. I want to know what % I am dropping every 14 days off my K. My average weight is 170 of K and I am dropping by .001 grams every 10 out of 14 days. Right now I am at .25 mg. Can anybody please do the math for me? Thank you very much. I would like to know what my % cut is every 14 days.

 

dose dropped over 10 days is 0.001 x 10 = 0.01 mg  over 10 days

 

If you are at 0.25 mg and drop 0.01 mg in two weeks, you will have cut by 0.01 / 0.25 * 100 = 4%

 

Anne: Thank you very much. :smitten:

[[ga...]]

Hi All,

    Made it through my mom's funeral last Tues, updosed once that night and am back down to .39mg/24hrs. I did pay for it though, soon as the next lower dose caught up with me. Went through a couple days of nasty W/D's, but seem to be stable now. Maybe some of the increased symptoms were stress related. I also noticed the increased need for sleep, like 10+ hours, which is crazy, I have food in the garden to get put up before the season changes! Hope things are going good for you guys, Rose

 

Wish this could be a real person hug. I think we both could use it! 

[[Ma...]]

Rose,

I am so sorry for your loss! That stress is definitely making your sxs worse. Of course, you would need to hold. You shouldn't bad about it at all! Try to take it easy on yourself. You are obviously and a very nice and string person. I hope you can give yourself the same compassion you give to others. I can't even imagine what I would be like in your situation. I know I would not be cutting.

 

You are very sweet! I hope I can be of help to others. Everyone is so helpful to me! I agree we help ourselves by helping others. I hope things get easier for you! You and your family are in my thoughts!

 

XO Maya 

[[an...]]

Rose:  So sorry about your Mom.  And yes I would think all of  your added symptoms are related to stress plus your exhaustion.  It is your body telling you it needs to re-coup so let it and just sleep if you need to.  If it were me I would be holding for a bit and perhaps not cut again for about a week until I felt a little better.

 

 

Kgirl, Thank-you for your condolences, I appreciate it. And thanks for confirming my thoughts too, now I feel not so bad for holding for a bit, for some reason I felt like I would be failing if I did that. I know, I am being too hard on myself. I hope you have a great weekend and are doing well. It is great to have such helpful people on this thread such as  yourself, Anne, Builder, SG, Gardener99, Maya, Sharkey and others who give their time and energy. It's good to have people help hold a person up when a person can't hardly hold themselves up. And I believe by helping others we are also helping ourselves!

 

Rdb,

 

I am so sorry for your loss. Please do not be hard on yourself for holding.  My father was in the hospital earlier in the year, and I had to take extra doses because of blood pressure spikes and chemical anxiety.  We all need to function and in times of high stress we can hold or do what we need to do to get through.

 

Take care of yourself.

 

Anne

[[an...]]

Hi builder: Are you here? Or anybody else?

 

I have a question that I hope someone can figure out for me. I want to know what % I am dropping every 14 days off my K. My average weight is 170 of K and I am dropping by .001 grams every 10 out of 14 days. Right now I am at .25 mg. Can anybody please do the math for me? Thank you very much. I would like to know what my % cut is every 14 days.

 

dose dropped over 10 days is 0.001 x 10 = 0.01 mg  over 10 days

 

If you are at 0.25 mg and drop 0.01 mg in two weeks, you will have cut by 0.01 / 0.25 * 100 = 4%

 

Anne: Thank you very much. :smitten:

 

You are welcome Benzogirl.  Enjoy the weekend!!

Anne

[[ca...]]

Hi builder: Are you here? Or anybody else?

 

I have a question that I hope someone can figure out for me. I want to know what % I am dropping every 14 days off my K. My average weight is 170 of K and I am dropping by .001 grams every 10 out of 14 days. Right now I am at .25 mg. Can anybody please do the math for me? Thank you very much. I would like to know what my % cut is every 14 days.

Benzogirl here try and use this it is what i use it works great !http://www.percentagecalculator.net/

[[Sh...]]

Anne, SG or Builder...  I am on day 6 of my K taper. Reducing  .25ml / day.  Original dose is 1mg / day.  .5mg 2x a day.  I have been puuting the .25ml that I draw off into another jar. Now I wonder if that is what I am supposed to do. When does one stop tossing what is drawn off and start saving it to use later?

I am hanging tough.  Wishing everyone here the best. It is one day at a time for sure.

 

Shaani 

[[...]]

If you are doing the toss method and recycling the toss, when you get to 20ml tossed (I assume you have 100ml?) then it will take four days to accumulate enough for one dose.  Then the waiting time just gets shorter from there.

 

Another way is to not toss at all.  You could just draw up your exact dose and not waste any at all.  Just treat it as a "supply" jar that always has at least one dose in it.  This is all just preference.

[[bu...]]

If you are doing the toss method and recycling the toss, when you get to 20ml tossed (I assume you have 100ml?) then it will take four days to accumulate enough for one dose.  Then the waiting time just gets shorter from there.

 

Another way is to not toss at all.  You could just draw up your exact dose and not waste any at all.  Just treat it as a "supply" jar that always has at least one dose in it. This is all just preference.

 

:thumbsup:

[[...]]

Hi All,

    Made it through my mom's funeral last Tues, updosed once that night and am back down to .39mg/24hrs. I did pay for it though, soon as the next lower dose caught up with me. Went through a couple days of nasty W/D's, but seem to be stable now. Maybe some of the increased symptoms were stress related. I also noticed the increased need for sleep, like 10+ hours, which is crazy, I have food in the garden to get put up before the season changes! Hope things are going good for you guys, Rose

 

Wish this could be a real person hug. I think we both could use it! 

 

 

Gardener, Anne, Maya, Thank-you for your kind words, they mean a lot- unless someone has gone through, or is going through getting off benzos, they really don't know what it is like and I can't explain the depth of misery it entails when I have tried to explain it. So when we are in this boat together, and you receive kind words and encouragement, you know it's coming from people who know exactly what it's like. And that is a good, comforting feeling. Big hug to you all and enjoy these last days of summer! Rose

[[Ma...]]

Rose,

I feel the same way. Unless someone has been through it they can't really understand. Thank you! I hope you are feeling a least a little better! I'm so sorry for everything you are going through! Lots of hugs! 

 

XO Maya