Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Ho...]]

Hi everyone,

I see some from the Klonopin Klub here... I would love some input from others regardingb micro taper. Right now I am cutting and holding (have only done 2 cuts but the last one was rough and makes me question if I should swith to MT. I am currently taking .5mg Klonopin (have been on it for a total of 6 months now) and using a gram scale to make cuts. My question is: What is the most conservative way to start a micro taper to see if it will work for me? Start cutting .001 every few days? I am happy to start SLOW and speed up as I need to. It's hard to believe its been so hard and will take so long to get off of such a seemingly small amount of Klonopin.... Crazy what these drugs do to us.

Thank you for any advice!

 

[[...]]

Hi everyone,

I see some from the Klonopin Klub here... I would love some input from others regardingb micro taper. Right now I am cutting and holding (have only done 2 cuts but the last one was rough and makes me question if I should swith to MT. I am currently taking .5mg Klonopin (have been on it for a total of 6 months now) and using a gram scale to make cuts. My question is: What is the most conservative way to start a micro taper to see if it will work for me? Start cutting .001 every few days? I am happy to start SLOW and speed up as I need to. It's hard to believe its been so hard and will take so long to get off of such a seemingly small amount of Klonopin.... Crazy what these drugs do to us.

Thank you for any advice!

 

Hi, At .5mg K I would suggest beginning with a rate of .0015mg per day.  If you have a scale and a .5mg pill you can't do that so you would need to cut .001g (.003mg) every other day.  If you want to be a bit more careful you can cut .001g every three days (.001mg/day).  Test the cut for a few weeks to make sure it is a symptom-free cut.  Then you can consider a bit higher.

[[NY...]]

Hi everyone,

I see some from the Klonopin Klub here... I would love some input from others regardingb micro taper. Right now I am cutting and holding (have only done 2 cuts but the last one was rough and makes me question if I should swith to MT. I am currently taking .5mg Klonopin (have been on it for a total of 6 months now) and using a gram scale to make cuts. My question is: What is the most conservative way to start a micro taper to see if it will work for me? Start cutting .001 every few days? I am happy to start SLOW and speed up as I need to. It's hard to believe its been so hard and will take so long to get off of such a seemingly small amount of Klonopin.... Crazy what these drugs do to us.

Thank you for any advice!

 

Hi, At .5mg K I would suggest beginning with a rate of .0015mg per day.  If you have a scale and a .5mg pill you can't do that so you would need to cut .001g (.003mg) every other day.  If you want to be a bit more careful you can cut .001g every three days (.001mg/day).  Test the cut for a few weeks to make sure it is a symptom-free cut.  Then you can consider a bit higher.

 

Hi SG,

 

Sorry to butt in here, but I have question about this, b/c still thinking about MTing my last .5mgs. 

 

Why do you say "make sure it is a symptom-free cut"? 

 

I never wish to be sx-free, but rather maintain a baseline quality of life (can continue working, exercising, sleeping, etc). 

 

So, theoretically, could one MT 10% over 7 days, have some manageable sxs, but still taper safely?

 

Thank you,

WR

 

 

[[...]]

Hi, At .5mg K I would suggest beginning with a rate of .0015mg per day.  If you have a scale and a .5mg pill you can't do that so you would need to cut .001g (.003mg) every other day.  If you want to be a bit more careful you can cut .001g every three days (.001mg/day).  Test the cut for a few weeks to make sure it is a symptom-free cut.  Then you can consider a bit higher.

 

Hi SG,

 

Sorry to butt in here, but I have question about this, b/c still thinking about MTing my last .5mgs. 

 

Why do you say "make sure it is a symptom-free cut"? 

 

I never wish to be sx-free, but rather maintain a baseline quality of life (can continue working, exercising, sleeping, etc). 

 

So, theoretically, could one MT 10% over 7 days, have some manageable sxs, but still taper safely?

 

Thank you,

WR

 

10% over seven days is over 40% a month.    That can be done...if you are not dependent.

 

What I meant was we heal, right?  We all heal.  We know we heal.  And I think healing goes on 24/7, like any healing in the body...a cut or broken leg.  So in 24 hours a certain amount of healing occurs and this happens every single day.  So all we have to do is cut daily below this amount and our bodies will have no problem keeping up.  That is what I meant by a symptom-free cut.  A cut below the daily limit.

 

You can be symptom-free or at least close to it all the way to zero.  But we are too impatient so 99% of us push it too hard.  Kind of a shame really.  I think all of this suffering is avoidable.

[[NY...]]

Hi, At .5mg K I would suggest beginning with a rate of .0015mg per day.  If you have a scale and a .5mg pill you can't do that so you would need to cut .001g (.003mg) every other day.  If you want to be a bit more careful you can cut .001g every three days (.001mg/day).  Test the cut for a few weeks to make sure it is a symptom-free cut.  Then you can consider a bit higher.

 

Hi SG,

 

Sorry to butt in here, but I have question about this, b/c still thinking about MTing my last .5mgs. 

 

Why do you say "make sure it is a symptom-free cut"? 

 

I never wish to be sx-free, but rather maintain a baseline quality of life (can continue working, exercising, sleeping, etc). 

 

So, theoretically, could one MT 10% over 7 days, have some manageable sxs, but still taper safely?

 

Thank you,

WR

 

10% over seven days is over 40% a month.    That can be done...if you are not dependent.

 

What I meant was we heal, right?  We all heal.  We know we heal.  And I think healing goes on 24/7, like any healing in the body...a cut or broken leg.  So in 24 hours a certain amount of healing occurs and this happens every single day.  So all we have to do is cut daily below this amount and our bodies will have no problem keeping up.  That is what I meant by a symptom-free cut.  A cut below the daily limit.

 

You can be symptom-free or at least close to it all the way to zero.  But we are too impatient so 99% of us push it too hard.  Kind of a shame really.  I think all of this suffering is avoidable.

 

Thank you.  I think I am confused again, thinking from cut and hold mentailty, as I cut 10% every ten days (from current dose). 

 

I dose once per day and always have, in AM.  My sxs are mild, but more noticeable at the end of my cuts, and after I dose.  I feel better as the drug wears off, and best upon waking when there is the smallest amount remaining.  This is why I'd like to speed things up, and thought perhaps MT would allow for this. 

[[Kg...]]

Hopeful- I would do exactly what SG recommends - start slow and then see how you do.  Without SG's help I would be somewhere climbing the walls right now in benzo he..l. 

 

NYC - I think what SG said is true and the taper rate solely depends on you.  You start slow and find the rate that works for you. Some people can cut faster than others - for example look at Clona's signature she was able to go down .002 w/o any holds.  I can't do that.    I was able to cut .001 every day for quite awhile  (I started at .0625 to MT) and then had to slow down my rate. I tried holding that didn't work and then I tried cutting .001 every other day and that didn't work either.  I found that if I held every 7 days I felt okay. That worked for me for awhile but then the s/x ramped up.  I now cut every 4 days and hold on day 5 - so again I had to slow my pace down.  For me when I hold my s/x actually get worse not better - I have tried this multiple times, I can only hold when I feel okay, if I don't I have to continue cutting - why I have no idea.  After awhile you learn what works for you.  That is the nice thing about the MT you find a pace, do it and if you run into issues you don't go up you can just slow down.  Listen to your own body and you will be able to determine the pace that works for you.  I truly believe that when we taper slowly we are healing on the way down so to rush off makes no sense to me since your body has to remake all of the chemicals that the drug didn't allow it to make for such a long time and that takes time, at least for those of us on this web site. Others as we know can get off with no problems at all but they are not the ones on BB since they have no need to come here. 

[[pr...]]

Hopeful- I would do exactly what SG recommends - start slow and then see how you do.  Without SG's help I would be somewhere climbing the walls right now in benzo he..l. 

 

NYC - I think what SG said is true and the taper rate solely depends on you.  You start slow and find the rate that works for you. Some people can cut faster than others - for example look at Clona's signature she was able to go down .002 w/o any holds.  I can't do that.    I was able to cut .001 every day for quite awhile  (I started at .0625 to MT) and then had to slow down my rate. I tried holding that didn't work and then I tried cutting .001 every other day and that didn't work either.  I found that if I held every 7 days I felt okay. That worked for me for awhile but then the s/x ramped up.  I now cut every 4 days and hold on day 5 - so again I had to slow my pace down.  For me when I hold my s/x actually get worse not better - I have tried this multiple times, I can only hold when I feel okay, if I don't I have to continue cutting - why I have no idea.  After awhile you learn what works for you.  That is the nice thing about the MT you find a pace, do it and if you run into issues you don't go up you can just slow down.  Listen to your own body and you will be able to determine the pace that works for you.  I truly believe that when we taper slowly we are healing on the way down so to rush off makes no sense to me since your body has to remake all of the chemicals that the drug didn't allow it to make for such a long time and that takes time, at least for those of us on this web site. Others as we know can get off with no problems at all but they are not the ones on BB since they have no need to come here.

 

 

NYC - I think what SG said is true and the taper rate solely depends on you.  You start slow and find the rate that works for you. Some people can cut faster than others - for example look at Clona's signature she was able to go down .002 w/o any holds.  I can't do that.    I was able to cut .001 every day for quite awhile  (I started at .0625 to MT) and then had to slow down my rate. I tried holding that didn't work and then I tried cutting .001 every other day and that didn't work either.  I found that if I held every 7 days I felt okay. That worked for me for awhile but then the s/x ramped up.  I now cut every 4 days and hold on day 5 - so again I had to slow my pace down.  For me when I hold my s/x actually get worse not better - I have tried this multiple times, I can only hold when I feel okay, if I don't I have to continue cutting - why I have no idea.  After awhile you learn what works for you.  That is the nice thing about the MT you find a pace, do it and if you run into issues you don't go up you can just slow down.  Listen to your own body and you will be able to determine the pace that works for you.  I truly believe that when we taper slowly we are healing on the way down so to rush off makes no sense to me since your body has to remake all of the chemicals that the drug didn't allow it to make for such a long time and that takes time, at least for those of us on this web site. Others as we know can get off with no problems at all but they are not the ones on BB since they have no need to come here.

 

 

this is  really good information to know about while trying to taper -- that even sometimes holding can ramp up s/x and to find the pace that is the best and most comfortable. God, how i wish i knew about this MT as i tried tapering for 9 years without success. so sad, that i didn't know about this. but i will sure keep all of this in mind for when i help someone else who may have a benzo problem, so thanks kgirl!

[[NY...]]

Hopeful- I would do exactly what SG recommends - start slow and then see how you do.  Without SG's help I would be somewhere climbing the walls right now in benzo he..l. 

 

NYC - I think what SG said is true and the taper rate solely depends on you.  You start slow and find the rate that works for you. Some people can cut faster than others - for example look at Clona's signature she was able to go down .002 w/o any holds.  I can't do that.    I was able to cut .001 every day for quite awhile  (I started at .0625 to MT) and then had to slow down my rate. I tried holding that didn't work and then I tried cutting .001 every other day and that didn't work either.  I found that if I held every 7 days I felt okay. That worked for me for awhile but then the s/x ramped up.  I now cut every 4 days and hold on day 5 - so again I had to slow my pace down.  For me when I hold my s/x actually get worse not better - I have tried this multiple times, I can only hold when I feel okay, if I don't I have to continue cutting - why I have no idea.  After awhile you learn what works for you.  That is the nice thing about the MT you find a pace, do it and if you run into issues you don't go up you can just slow down.  Listen to your own body and you will be able to determine the pace that works for you.  I truly believe that when we taper slowly we are healing on the way down so to rush off makes no sense to me since your body has to remake all of the chemicals that the drug didn't allow it to make for such a long time and that takes time, at least for those of us on this web site. Others as we know can get off with no problems at all but they are not the ones on BB since they have no need to come here.

 

Thank you Kgirl.  I will perhaps give it a try at lower doses, see if sxs stay where they are now.  If they get worse with MT, I'll just return to my tried n' true 10%/10. 

[[...]]

10% over seven days is over 40% a month.    That can be done...if you are not dependent.

 

What I meant was we heal, right?  We all heal.  We know we heal.  And I think healing goes on 24/7, like any healing in the body...a cut or broken leg.  So in 24 hours a certain amount of healing occurs and this happens every single day.  So all we have to do is cut daily below this amount and our bodies will have no problem keeping up.  That is what I meant by a symptom-free cut.  A cut below the daily limit.

 

You can be symptom-free or at least close to it all the way to zero.  But we are too impatient so 99% of us push it too hard.  Kind of a shame really.  I think all of this suffering is avoidable.

 

Thank you.  I think I am confused again, thinking from cut and hold mentailty, as I cut 10% every ten days (from current dose). 

 

I dose once per day and always have, in AM.  My sxs are mild, but more noticeable at the end of my cuts, and after I dose.  I feel better as the drug wears off, and best upon waking when there is the smallest amount remaining.  This is why I'd like to speed things up, and thought perhaps MT would allow for this.

 

You might be a good candidate for MT.  Two reasons I say that.  One is you feel better when cutting (MTers cut every day), and two you are able to drop 10%/10 days.  In a MT that translates to 1% a day, which is pretty big.  You may be able to move at a pretty good clip, just as you do now.  I would expect you could be faster with MT, but not due to healing differently or any magic.  I think it is just more efficient.  Strange how you feel best when the drug is low and when you cut.  I can't explain that.  I often hear people say they feel better when they cut.

[[Ma...]]

 

You can be symptom-free or at least close to it all the way to zero.  But we are too impatient so 99% of us push it too hard.  Kind of a shame really.  I think all of this suffering is avoidable.

 

I agree that people push themselves too hard. It's understandable, especially with people who have a very low limit as to how much they can taper. Obviously, it is also different for each person. I have come to realize I want to taper right below my limit. I hope to have as little sxs as possible and heal on my way off. I am learning to accept that is will take awhile.

[[Ho...]]

Hi everyone,

I see some from the Klonopin Klub here... I would love some input from others regardingb micro taper. Right now I am cutting and holding (have only done 2 cuts but the last one was rough and makes me question if I should swith to MT. I am currently taking .5mg Klonopin (have been on it for a total of 6 months now) and using a gram scale to make cuts. My question is: What is the most conservative way to start a micro taper to see if it will work for me? Start cutting .001 every few days? I am happy to start SLOW and speed up as I need to. It's hard to believe its been so hard and will take so long to get off of such a seemingly small amount of Klonopin.... Crazy what these drugs do to us.

Thank you for any advice!

 

Hi, At .5mg K I would suggest beginning with a rate of .0015mg per day.  If you have a scale and a .5mg pill you can't do that so you would need to cut .001g (.003mg) every other day.  If you want to be a bit more careful you can cut .001g every three days (.001mg/day).  Test the cut for a few weeks to make sure it is a symptom-free cut.  Then you can consider a bit higher.

 

SG, thank you!!

I will cut .001g every three days and see how I do for a few weeks. Another question... I am not really feeling 100% great right now but I can certainly function day to day. I have been holding my last 10% cut for 10 days. Do you recommend i wait and feel better, or just get on with micro tapering?

[[ga...]]

 

I agree that people push themselves too hard. It's understandable, especially with people who have a very low limit as to how much they can taper. Obviously, it is also different for each person. I have come to realize I want to taper right below my limit. I hope to have as little sxs as possible and heal on my way off. I am learning to accept that is will take awhile.

 

Thanks for this reminder. 

[[NY...]]

Thank you again SG and Kgirl.  I plan to give 1% reductions a shot when I hit .5mg.  Will report back in a few months 

[[...]]

Hi, At .5mg K I would suggest beginning with a rate of .0015mg per day.  If you have a scale and a .5mg pill you can't do that so you would need to cut .001g (.003mg) every other day.  If you want to be a bit more careful you can cut .001g every three days (.001mg/day).  Test the cut for a few weeks to make sure it is a symptom-free cut.  Then you can consider a bit higher.

 

SG, thank you!!

I will cut .001g every three days and see how I do for a few weeks. Another question... I am not really feeling 100% great right now but I can certainly function day to day. I have been holding my last 10% cut for 10 days. Do you recommend i wait and feel better, or just get on with micro tapering?

 

I think if you feel you are still getting something out of holding I'd keep holding.  Ten days is not much for a 10% cut.  OTOH, I don't think you need to be 100% to begin cutting again.  I think you can get those symptoms to fade while you cut, if you cut at a proper rate.  It's hard for me to judge.

[[Ma...]]

 

I agree that people push themselves too hard. It's understandable, especially with people who have a very low limit as to how much they can taper. Obviously, it is also different for each person. I have come to realize I want to taper right below my limit. I hope to have as little sxs as possible and heal on my way off. I am learning to accept that is will take awhile.

 

Thanks for this reminder. 

You are doing so well! It won't be that much longer for you! 

[[...]]

Hello all, if I want to try the MT now this would be my plan.  I am at .070 grams am and pm.

 

Day 1: .069 grms am

          .070grms pm

 

Day 2:  .069grms am

          .069grms pm

 

Day 3: .068grms am

          .069grms pm

 

Day 4:  .068grms am

          .068 grms pm

 

Then hold for a day? And then continue.  I think that drops me around 6-7% over two week period. I hope I can do this.  I like the idea of keeping my am and on doses closer. Right now I cut  my am dose and hold for two weeks then cut the pm dose .

 

 

Just need encouragement and opinions

 

Thanks

 

Lois

[[...]]

Hello all, if I want to try the MT now this would be my plan.  I am at .070 grams am and pm.

 

Day 1: .069 grms am

          .070grms pm

 

Day 2:  .069grms am

          .069grms pm

 

Day 3: .068grms am

          .069grms pm

 

Day 4:  .068grms am

          .068 grms pm

 

Then hold for a day? And then continue.  I think that drops me around 6-7% over two week period. I hope I can do this.  I like the idea of keeping my am and on doses closer. Right now I cut  my am dose and hold for two weeks then cut the pm dose .

 

 

Just need encouragement and opinions

 

Thanks

 

Lois

 

Hi Lois, what is your pill size and what is your current dose?

[[...]]

Hi SG

 

Pill is .5 and it weighs .170grams. I think I am at .41mg daily

 

Lois

[[...]]

Hi SG

 

Pill is .5 and it weighs .170grams. I think I am at .41mg daily

 

Lois

 

Yes, I get the same thing.  You may be able to handle reducing .001g per day at your dose, but you also may not: it's fairly big.  So I would not begin there if it were me.  What I would do is begin at half that, cutting .001g (~.003mg) every other day...effectively .0015mg per day.  Establish that as a valid cut first by testing it for a few weeks.  If all is well (no symptom increase) I'd next move to reducing .001g (~.003mg) in a C/C/H pattern (which approximates a .002mg daily cut)...in other words cut twice, hold once.

[[...]]

Hi SG

 

Pill is .5 and it weighs .170grams. I think I am at .41mg daily

 

Lois

 

Yes, I get the same thing.  You may be able to handle reducing .001g per day at your dose, but you also may not: it's fairly big.  So I would not begin there if it were me.  What I would do is begin at half that, cutting .001g (~.003mg) every other day...effectively .0015mg per day.  Establish that as a valid cut first by testing it for a few weeks.  If all is well (no symptom increase) I'd next move to reducing .001g (~.003mg) in a C/C/H pattern (which approximates a .002mg daily cut)...in other words cut twice, hold once.

SG thanks so much.  I will give this a try and see how things go.

Lois

[[ga...]]

 

I agree that people push themselves too hard. It's understandable, especially with people who have a very low limit as to how much they can taper. Obviously, it is also different for each person. I have come to realize I want to taper right below my limit. I hope to have as little sxs as possible and heal on my way off. I am learning to accept that is will take awhile.

 

Thanks for this reminder. 

You are doing so well! It won't be that much longer for you! 

 

Thanks, Maya. I'm thinking if this goes well it will be at least a year. I think I'll do some math and update my signature. Or maybe it's better not to do the math!

[[Ma...]]

 

I agree that people push themselves too hard. It's understandable, especially with people who have a very low limit as to how much they can taper. Obviously, it is also different for each person. I have come to realize I want to taper right below my limit. I hope to have as little sxs as possible and heal on my way off. I am learning to accept that is will take awhile.

 

Thanks for this reminder. 

You are doing so well! It won't be that much longer for you! 

 

Thanks, Maya. I'm thinking if this goes well it will be at least a year. I think I'll do some math and update my signature. Or maybe it's better not to do the math!

I wouldn't think you had a year left. Even so, that will pass faster than you think and you are doing better and better! Also I imagine the Librium would be easier to get off than the Xanax. I would update your signature. I wouldn't do the math to figure out how long until you're off. I won't even think about how long I think it might take me. I don't think it's positive for me. Also I can't predict at all at this stage. It will take what it needs to. Trying very hard with the acceptance! Also I try to remind myself that I once was on over twice as much klonopin as now. I hope you have a good day!

XO Maya 

 

P.S. I don't know why but my iPad capitalizes benzos

[[ga...]]

 

I agree that people push themselves too hard. It's understandable, especially with people who have a very low limit as to how much they can taper. Obviously, it is also different for each person. I have come to realize I want to taper right below my limit. I hope to have as little sxs as possible and heal on my way off. I am learning to accept that is will take awhile.

 

Thanks for this reminder. 

You are doing so well! It won't be that much longer for you! 

 

Thanks, Maya. I'm thinking if this goes well it will be at least a year. I think I'll do some math and update my signature. Or maybe it's better not to do the math!

I wouldn't think you had a year left. Even so, that will pass faster than you think and you are doing better and better! Also I imagine the Librium would be easier to get off than the Xanax. I would update your signature. I wouldn't do the math to figure out how long until you're off. I won't even think about how long I think it might take me. I don't think it's positive for me. Also I can't predict at all at this stage. It will take what it needs to. Trying very hard with the acceptance! Also I try to remind myself that I once was on over twice as much klonopin as now. I hope you have a good day!

XO Maya 

 

P.S. I don't know why but my iPad capitalizes benzos

 

I think I will do some math to figure out how far I've come. With the 5% dilution, I really have no idea what my current dose of X actually is! Then I, too, will be able to see how far I've come. 

[[Ho...]]

Hi, At .5mg K I would suggest beginning with a rate of .0015mg per day.  If you have a scale and a .5mg pill you can't do that so you would need to cut .001g (.003mg) every other day.  If you want to be a bit more careful you can cut .001g every three days (.001mg/day).  Test the cut for a few weeks to make sure it is a symptom-free cut.  Then you can consider a bit higher.

 

SG, thank you!!

I will cut .001g every three days and see how I do for a few weeks. Another question... I am not really feeling 100% great right now but I can certainly function day to day. I have been holding my last 10% cut for 10 days. Do you recommend i wait and feel better, or just get on with micro tapering?

 

I think if you feel you are still getting something out of holding I'd keep holding.  Ten days is not much for a 10% cut.  OTOH, I don't think you need to be 100% to begin cutting again.  I think you can get those symptoms to fade while you cut, if you cut at a proper rate.  It's hard for me to judge.

 

SG,

Thanks so much! I have a trip coming up so will hold until the trip is over then start the MT next week. I'm eager to get off the K cause I believe the fatigue and whatnot that it causes is causing my depression to be worse. Thanks again for your valuable help.

 

[[Ma...]]

 

I agree that people push themselves too hard. It's understandable, especially with people who have a very low limit as to how much they can taper. Obviously, it is also different for each person. I have come to realize I want to taper right below my limit. I hope to have as little sxs as possible and heal on my way off. I am learning to accept that is will take awhile.

 

Thanks for this reminder. 

You are doing so well! It won't be that much longer for you! 

 

Thanks, Maya. I'm thinking if this goes well it will be at least a year. I think I'll do some math and update my signature. Or maybe it's better not to do the math!

I wouldn't think you had a year left. Even so, that will pass faster than you think and you are doing better and better! Also I imagine the Librium would be easier to get off than the Xanax. I would update your signature. I wouldn't do the math to figure out how long until you're off. I won't even think about how long I think it might take me. I don't think it's positive for me. Also I can't predict at all at this stage. It will take what it needs to. Trying very hard with the acceptance! Also I try to remind myself that I once was on over twice as much klonopin as now. I hope you have a good day!

XO Maya 

 

P.S. I don't know why but my iPad capitalizes benzos

 

I think I will do some math to figure out how far I've come. With the 5% dilution, I really have no idea what my current dose of X actually is! Then I, too, will be able to see how far I've come. 

You should definitely do that. You have come along way! I plan to try liquid after I meet with my pdoc in Oct. I know you did a lot better with liquid than cutting pills. I still have the info you gave me. Thank you!

 

I unfortunately stopped tapering for awhile. I didn't realize that klonopin was really harming me. Now I know and I will not stop until I'm off!