Cross-Over to Valium Support Thread

[[Fr...]]

Not a good day today I am having anxiety still and it is almost 3 PM - stomach is ok in the scheme of things.  I don't want to updose the valium.  I did the equivalent cross over so now I am on 7.5 mg of Valium at 7 AM, 2.5 mg at 1 PM still on Klonopin .125 at 6 PM and a whopping 15.5 mg of Valium at night. If I don't take the larger dose at night I end up completely non functional in the AM.  Why am I having symptoms - 1st over sedated now I seem to be having some withdrawal even doing my cross over. I am tempted to just do Dr. Peart's method in a couple of days and just get off of the klonopin totally suffer through hold till stable (if ever) and then taper.  I know I am not alone in having symptoms - they are bearable I just was hoping I wouldn't have anything. 

 

Hello Kgirl.  Not all benzos are alike.  When you cross over you are essentially tapering off one benzo and starting another.  It is possible this may account for some of the symptoms you are getting. 

 

Another cause of symptoms is that you may be experiencing adverse ("toxic") side effects from a benzo and these may (or may not) keep re-surfacing during your taper until you reduce the dose to something small.

 

Valium takes some time to build up to it's full strength.  It is something like a week or two.  So if you cross over very quickly (for example using the faster Roche schedule quoted by Reg Pearce taking only a few days) then the Valium will continue to build up even after you have fully crossed over.  This means that in order not to experience withdrawal you would have to aim for a higher dose of Valium than if you had crossed over slowly;  that will mean a correspondingly longer taper off the higher dose Valium.

 

An unhurried cross over (and subsequent period of stabilization) will help create a good starting point for a taper.

 

Yeah this isn't exactly correct. Yes, due to the long halflife of the main Valium metabolite, it continues to build up in your system for up to around 2 months. . .  But Valium has a fast onset of action, when you take 2mg of Valium - you're getting 2mg of Valium. . . But if you continue to take 2mg of Valium daily for 2 months it'll build up in your body to an amount GREATER than 2mg.

 

I crossed over in 11 days from .9mg Ativan to 9mg Valium and had no ill effects whatsoever, most likely because I was stable on the .9mg before I started crossing over - the most important thing, I believe, is to make sure you're as stable as possible before trying to cross over, and then again before starting to taper.

 

 

[[ov...]]

Frotob:  I am unstable from my K w/d.  I waited a few months post K w/d  and then began my c/o from temazepam to valium.  If I waited to stabalize from the K w/d, I might not every be off the Temazepam, which is short lived, so I was hoping that the c/o to V with the long life might help with my w/d s/x, but doesn't appear to be happening.  Any suggestions?

OC  :smitten:

[[Fr...]]

Frotob:  I am unstable from my K w/d.  I waited a few months post K w/d  and then began my c/o from temazepam to valium.  If I waited to stabalize from the K w/d, I might not every be off the Temazepam, which is short lived, so I was hoping that the c/o to V with the long life might help with my w/d s/x, but doesn't appear to be happening.  Any suggestions?

OC  :smitten:

 

About all I can offer suggestion wise is maybe crossover to a higher than equivalent dosage than would ordinarily be needed to substitute for the temazepam, if you're still in W/D from the klonopin then that's not going to change by switching from temazepam to Valium, unless you updose some on valium to cover the w/d symptoms from the klonopin. That's about all I can think of that might ease your suffering, but it is a MIGHT. . and definitely a decision you would want to make yourself, maybe someone else can weigh in with something better. Goodluck!

[Guest [in...]]

Lainey, Ur all on valium now?! How goes it?!  or  or :'(

[[ro...]]

I am so nervous about c/o, I dont know why exactly. I will be doing it in a few weeks. I'm wondering if it really helps the w/ds better.. Can anyone tell me. I am overthinking I quess. Also i take lisinoril for high Bld Press. does this work out ok?I know a lot feel better on the V..Are w/ds much better?  just worried. Rose

[[mr...]]

I am so nervous about c/o, I dont know why exactly. I will be doing it in a few weeks. I'm wondering if it really helps the w/ds better.. Can anyone tell me. I am overthinking I quess. Also i take lisinoril for high Bld Press. does this work out ok?I know a lot feel better on the V..Are w/ds much better?  just worried. Rose

Hi Rose,

My mom was not able to go 2 hours after her lorazepam dose without suffering interdose wd.

We switched her to valium directly and she was able to go 4 of the 6 hours until her blood levels went up in a week.

After a little over a week, she was so much better on the valium.

[[et...]]

I am so nervous about c/o, I dont know why exactly. I will be doing it in a few weeks. I'm wondering if it really helps the w/ds better.. Can anyone tell me. I am overthinking I quess. Also i take lisinoril for high Bld Press. does this work out ok?I know a lot feel better on the V..Are w/ds much better?  just worried. Rose

 

Hi Rose - as you can see from others signature's the switch to Valium from anything has been largely successful and rarely no change, and double rarely worse. IMO If you were playing poker right now I would say the safe bet would be to cross over to the equivalent dose of Valium stabilize for 3-4 weeks and get your taper started. If you think it won't work.....you know the rest.

etown

[[ro...]]

etown, you are right. I probably will feel better. In my thinking state at this time, everything seems to cause anxiety. I was never like this. I was an engineer and a nurse. I need to calm down.

[[ly...]]

etown, you are right. I probably will feel better. In my thinking state at this time, everything seems to cause anxiety. I was never like this. I was an engineer and a nurse. I need to calm down.

 

etown is right! Sometimes we like to over think and that got me in trouble when I was hemming and hawing about crossing over and I had to end up doing an up dose. 

 

Figure out how you want to cross over, set yout mind to do it and just take the plunge! 

You can do..think positive!!! 

Lynnie

[[ro...]]

lynnieb, how long were you on ativan? I am going to crossover, and be positive.  This anxiety thing is worse since the tolerance w/ds. More has happened to my life that has made it worse. But for knowledge of these meds, I want to get off. The getting off the med is soooooo hard. It is everyday ...awful. I do walks, visits w family, a few errands, but I hate to do them.  One foot in front of the other..

[[ly...]]

Including my cross over it has now been 25 weeks. The first 3 months, starting last Oct. were awful. Never stabilized, bedridden, could not leave the house, stuttering, tremors, shaking. Long story, no help from the doctor etc...

For me personally, V has smoothed so much out and is so much better to me. My family enjoys having me back! I finish my cross over this week, then I have to start combining my doses, ended up taking 7, another long story, then stabilize for 3-4 week. I don't mind the time it is taking to do any of this. I want to get off this just as bad as anyone, but I am going to go at it soo slow, cause I need to function.

One step at a time..one day at a time! 

Lynnie

 

[[et...]]

Hey Rose - To encourage you "acceptance is key". You've done a lot of stuff. It's just an annoying break in the normalcy of life. If you do it right though you can still do life. I have a full time job, a business, 4 kids, 7 grandkids with one on the way, we love to travel etc. I have comitted to doing whatever it takes to make this go away. I don't care how long it takes. I was on this stuff for well over 20 years so who am I to even venture to think I'll just step away from Benzo's in no time? I feel like I have the flu 24/7 and the odd time get a few flare ups but other than that I'm a just over 50 otherwise healthy guy.

I'm pretty much used to the flu and I ignore it as much as possible.

Get your c/o out of the way and learn how to find a taper rate that suits your lifestyle, put your seatbelt on and in a few years this will all be over. When I look back on this later I hope I will remember the things I could do rather than the few I couldn't.

etown

[[ly...]]

Grandpa  aka. etown is right again! Acceptance is key!! Took me weeks to finally accept it for what it is. Now I have to do what needs to be done..

lynnie

[[ly...]]

Rose,

I will tell you this about acceptance!  When I first found out what had happened to me and that my body needed this med. I was flat out mad at my doctor..then I got scared, super scared, and then I doubted things I knew I shouldn't, and I cried A LOT!!

Whatever you are in this process, know it is all natural. If I could meet you right now, I would give you a (hug), then I would left your chin up so we can see eye to eye, tell you that you can do this and it will be alright. It will have it's bumps and curves, but it will be alright! 

Lynnie

[[la...]]

Thanks for asking Ingrid. Today is day 2 of all V and I will say that the anxiety is almost NIL now 

 

Rose, I was in such bad tolerance withdrawal for almost a whole year also w/d from playing with Zoloft doses (13xs in 12 months) 

saw many Drs and never did anyone suggest that the meds were what was making me so sick. BenzoBuddies is what taught me what I know now.

 

For me the KPIN was killing me and all the Dr wanted to do was to keep increasing my dose. So c/o to V was the right thing for me. I am not trembling and feeling like I want to jump out of my skin anymore.

 

My gut hurts always but that's been an issue since a long time prior to benzos

 

I did trade up my afternoon dose to a wee bit smaller and added that to the evening dose , so I wouldn't be as sedated feeling in the day

 

as of today so far so OKAY

[[ly...]]

Thanks for asking Ingrid. Today is day 2 of all V and I will say that the anxiety is almost NIL now 

 

Rose, I was in such bad tolerance withdrawal for almost a whole year also w/d from playing with Zoloft doses (13xs in 12 months) 

saw many Drs and never did anyone suggest that the meds were what was making me so sick. BenzoBuddies is what taught me what I know now.

 

For me the KPIN was killing me and all the Dr wanted to do was to keep increasing my dose. So c/o to V was the right thing for me. I am not trembling and feeling like I want to jump out of my skin anymore.

 

My gut hurts always but that's been an issue since a long time prior to benzos

 

I did trade up my afternoon dose to a wee bit smaller and added that to the evening dose , so I wouldn't be as sedated feeling in the day

 

as of today so far so OKAY

 

Lainey,

Great news! So happy for you! 

[[...]]

Including my cross over it has now been 25 weeks. The first 3 months, starting last Oct. were awful. Never stabilized, bedridden, could not leave the house, stuttering, tremors, shaking. Long story, no help from the doctor etc...

For me personally, V has smoothed so much out and is so much better to me. My family enjoys having me back! I finish my cross over this week, then I have to start combining my doses, ended up taking 7, another long story, then stabilize for 3-4 week. I don't mind the time it is taking to do any of this. I want to get off this just as bad as anyone, but I am going to go at it soo slow, cause I need to function.

One step at a time..one day at a time! 

Lynnie

 

It is good to read how well you are doing Lynnie - keep up the good work.  Crossing over was the only option for me as I was already in inter-dose w/d on the K before I did the ignorant c/t.

[[ly...]]

Including my cross over it has now been 25 weeks. The first 3 months, starting last Oct. were awful. Never stabilized, bedridden, could not leave the house, stuttering, tremors, shaking. Long story, no help from the doctor etc...

For me personally, V has smoothed so much out and is so much better to me. My family enjoys having me back! I finish my cross over this week, then I have to start combining my doses, ended up taking 7, another long story, then stabilize for 3-4 week. I don't mind the time it is taking to do any of this. I want to get off this just as bad as anyone, but I am going to go at it soo slow, cause I need to function.

One step at a time..one day at a time! 

Lynnie

 

It is good to read how well you are doing Lynnie - keep up the good work.  Crossing over was the only option for me as I was already in inter-dose w/d on the K before I did the ignorant c/t.

 

Thanks eliz!!  It was my only option as well! Actually, my doc gave me my first option, detox.  NOT!  Then he got on board and is being supportive thus far!  I have a great story. So he suggested detox, I said no way. Asked him to look into Ashton and think about putting me on v. That was just before Christmas. January I go see him, he agrees to help. Told me he will write the scripts and that I can do what I want.  Have not seen him since, until last week. I drive my husband to the docs for his physical for the purpose of just letting him see me, seeing a new calmer me. When he walked into the room and saw me, he raised his eyebrow, had this look on his face that for me was priceless!!  This is all new to him as well and we only communicate by phone, so for him to see I was ok was just great!! 

[[...]]

Including my cross over it has now been 25 weeks. The first 3 months, starting last Oct. were awful. Never stabilized, bedridden, could not leave the house, stuttering, tremors, shaking. Long story, no help from the doctor etc...

For me personally, V has smoothed so much out and is so much better to me. My family enjoys having me back! I finish my cross over this week, then I have to start combining my doses, ended up taking 7, another long story, then stabilize for 3-4 week. I don't mind the time it is taking to do any of this. I want to get off this just as bad as anyone, but I am going to go at it soo slow, cause I need to function.

One step at a time..one day at a time! 

Lynnie

 

It is good to read how well you are doing Lynnie - keep up the good work.  Crossing over was the only option for me as I was already in inter-dose w/d on the K before I did the ignorant c/t.

 

Thanks eliz!!  It was my only option as well! Actually, my doc gave me my first option, detox.  NOT!  Then he got on board and is being supportive thus far!  I have a great story. So he suggested detox, I said no way. Asked him to look into Ashton and think about putting me on v. That was just before Christmas. January I go see him, he agrees to help. Told me he will write the scripts and that I can do what I want.  Have not seen him since, until last week. I drive my husband to the docs for his physical for the purpose of just letting him see me, seeing a new calmer me. When he walked into the room and saw me, he raised his eyebrow, had this look on his face that for me was priceless!!  This is all new to him as well and we only communicate by phone, so for him to see I was ok was just great!!

 

I am so pleased you have a doctor who will provide you with the meds you need to undergo your taper.  Still......I am continually dismayed with the cavalier attitude doctors have towards prescribing this class of drugs in the first place.

 

My one hope is that sooner than later, the practice of handing these out like tic-tacs will be a thing of the past and there will no longer be any need for a forum like this because of the ignorance of the medical profession.

 

You sound so much better and I know your taper will be a successful one since you are taking all the right steps to stabilize and get well first. 

[[ly...]]

Including my cross over it has now been 25 weeks. The first 3 months, starting last Oct. were awful. Never stabilized, bedridden, could not leave the house, stuttering, tremors, shaking. Long story, no help from the doctor etc...

For me personally, V has smoothed so much out and is so much better to me. My family enjoys having me back! I finish my cross over this week, then I have to start combining my doses, ended up taking 7, another long story, then stabilize for 3-4 week. I don't mind the time it is taking to do any of this. I want to get off this just as bad as anyone, but I am going to go at it soo slow, cause I need to function.

One step at a time..one day at a time! 

Lynnie

 

It is good to read how well you are doing Lynnie - keep up the good work.  Crossing over was the only option for me as I was already in inter-dose w/d on the K before I did the ignorant c/t.

 

Thanks eliz!!  It was my only option as well! Actually, my doc gave me my first option, detox.  NOT!  Then he got on board and is being supportive thus far!  I have a great story. So he suggested detox, I said no way. Asked him to look into Ashton and think about putting me on v. That was just before Christmas. January I go see him, he agrees to help. Told me he will write the scripts and that I can do what I want.  Have not seen him since, until last week. I drive my husband to the docs for his physical for the purpose of just letting him see me, seeing a new calmer me. When he walked into the room and saw me, he raised his eyebrow, had this look on his face that for me was priceless!!  This is all new to him as well and we only communicate by phone, so for him to see I was ok was just great!!

 

I am so pleased you have a doctor who will provide you with the meds you need to undergo your taper.  Still......I am continually dismayed with the cavalier attitude doctors have towards prescribing this class of drugs in the first place.

 

My one hope is that sooner than later, the practice of handing these out like tic-tacs will be a thing of the past and there will no longer be any need for a forum like this because of the ignorance of the medical profession.

 

You sound so much better and I know your taper will be a successful one since you are taking all the right steps to stabilize and get well first. 

 

Thanks!  I hear you about docs handing these out like tic tacs. It needs to stop. When I had to take my son to the ER the other week cause he was having problems, the first thing one of the guys said when checking him in was, it sounds like anxiety to me. I though oh no, here we go. Thought they were him going to try to give him a benzo, to which they would have had to do over my dead body, but they didn't. Thank God!  We walked out of there not knowing what was wrong. He is now under a chiropractors care and doing way better.  Couple of pinched nerves. 

 

[[...]]

From Anxiety to pinched nerves - that original diagnosis was oceans away, wasn't it?

 

It seems that they all want to label seemingly difficult to pin down medical issues as a person just being high strung, or hysterical.  When did doctors forget the Hippocratic oath I wonder?

 

You know.....First, Do no Harm!

 

 

I am glad your son is doing better!

[[ly...]]

Oceans away.  Thank God!

 

And you are exactly right about the rest!!! If they only knew.  I think the game changer for my doc was his snooping around on BB. Told me he has been on here. I never even told him about it. He just came across it and started reading some threads.  Hope he opens his eyes more then his script pad.

[[Br...]]

Hello Kgirl.  Not all benzos are alike.  When you cross over you are essentially tapering off one benzo and starting another.  It is possible this may account for some of the symptoms you are getting. 

 

Another cause of symptoms is that you may be experiencing adverse ("toxic") side effects from a benzo and these may (or may not) keep re-surfacing during your taper until you reduce the dose to something small.

 

Valium takes some time to build up to it's full strength.  It is something like a week or two.  So if you cross over very quickly (for example using the faster Roche schedule quoted by Reg Pearce taking only a few days) then the Valium will continue to build up even after you have fully crossed over.  This means that in order not to experience withdrawal you would have to aim for a higher dose of Valium than if you had crossed over slowly;  that will mean a correspondingly longer taper off the higher dose Valium.

 

An unhurried cross over (and subsequent period of stabilization) will help create a good starting point for a taper.

 

Yeah this isn't exactly correct. Yes, due to the long halflife of the main Valium metabolite, it continues to build up in your system for up to around 2 months. . .  But Valium has a fast onset of action, when you take 2mg of Valium - you're getting 2mg of Valium. . . But if you continue to take 2mg of Valium daily for 2 months it'll build up in your body to an amount GREATER than 2mg.

 

I crossed over in 11 days from .9mg Ativan to 9mg Valium and had no ill effects whatsoever, most likely because I was stable on the .9mg before I started crossing over - the most important thing, I believe, is to make sure you're as stable as possible before trying to cross over, and then again before starting to taper.

 

Hello Frotob.  I am not aware of any info that says diazepam builds up for two months. 

 

There were some reported observations that it may last a very long time in certain tissues (or "compartments") such as bones.  However diazepam in bones probably does not have an active effect as it probably does not leach out to top up the diazepam stored in parts of the body where diazepam can have an effect.  You might find parts of this thread interesting.  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=91838.msg1182743#msg1182743

 

 

[[ly...]]

Good morning my cross over friends! It took me 40 days, but it is done! Today is my first official day of all V!    I still have to hold for 5-7 days, then combine my doses, as I was taking 7, hold again for about 3-4 weeks and then starts the journey down! 

 

Lynnie

 

[Guest [in...]]

Lynnie so Happy for you. I know this is quite an accomplishment. So, how many doses of all v per day will u do and hold for 3-4 weeks? Im on one 10mg val dose, holding, April 5 will be day 30, then I am going to daily cut .5mg, for 3-4 weeks. See how it goes.