Cross-Over to Valium Support Thread

[[Kg...]]

Need advice quickly - yesterday I switched my 1 pm  .125 Klonopin dose to 2.5 Valium and was overly sedated. I could barely see straight.  And I still take the Klonopon .125 at 6 PM.  Today I took 2 mg of the Valium - is this stupid to do - should I just do the equivalency and be 1/2 asleep which is the 2.5  of Valium or see how the 2 mg works - that would be a .5 mg drop on the cross over - HELP.  Thanks.  I need input.  I don't want to go into bad withdrawal - I still don't feel 100% and doubt I ever will until I am off of this stuff - I had tolerance withdrawal with the Klonopin but the cross over has helped me. 

[Guest [in...]]

Im by, no means, experienced at this, but can u take that .5mg of valium at night b4 bed? Just add it to whatever ur taking at night? And just do that midday thing of 2mg everyday while doing the c/o?

[[Kg...]]

I don't want to add it to my night dose taking too much already at night - I was wondering if I could just drop the .5 I guess I will see - I called my doctor but no answer and I can't walk  around sedated all day - I know from Ashton that she says the equivalents are estimates - so at night when I cross over I had to go up .5 mg to feel the same - now it seems I have to go down due to the sedation.  I guess I will listen to my body I can always add the .5 mg valium to the 6 pm dose I guess of klonopin if I feel awful. 

[Guest [in...]]

I hope u can get in touch with ur dr I know that sedation, and its tough. I felt like I was in a trance at times.

[[mr...]]

I don't want to add it to my night dose taking too much already at night - I was wondering if I could just drop the .5 I guess I will see - I called my doctor but no answer and I can't walk  around sedated all day - I know from Ashton that she says the equivalents are estimates - so at night when I cross over I had to go up .5 mg to feel the same - now it seems I have to go down due to the sedation.  I guess I will listen to my body I can always add the .5 mg valium to the 6 pm dose I guess of klonopin if I feel awful. 

kgirl,

Dr reg peart says that the sedation feeling indicates you have the correct c/o dose.

That sedation feeling doesn't last for ever and will fade in a couple weeks.

[[Kg...]]

I guess I will take the extra . 5mg now then so I don't mess myself up - better to be too tired that totally whacked out.  Thanks to all of you for your help.

[[et...]]

Kgirl - the sedation does go away. IMO for what its worth you are playing with fire by cutting .5mg. The equivalency charts are there for a reason and if the err is on the side of caution it is a million times better than ending up in serious w/d. If you have read posts on this thread and on the Valium thread you will meet some people who did not c/o to the right amount and are pulling their hair out.

Brave the sedation or take away some of the day and add to the night as Ingrid suggested.

etown

[[la...]]

Kgirl, I was just going to post almost the same question. I am so sedated when I take the 2:00 pm dose. its almost impossible to even do anything at all.

 

I just c/o from .25mg K at 2:00 to .125mg with 2.5mg V.  On sunday it will be 5mg V and I will be completely c/o.

 

so etown and all, do you think I should try cutting some off the 2:00 dose and add it to the evening?  Not sure how I could figure taking 1mg off the 5mg tab anyways.

 

I read all Of Dr Pearts info and I know that when I 1st went on klonopin I remember being somewhat sedated too. and it passed. But this seems even stronger sedation. I am in LA LA land

 

how soon will this settle down where I will be able to see straight in the afternoon? I am almost nil of anxiety now (which is wonderful) but so weak in the head, don't know which is worse.

 

UGH. I will say I am glad that I didn't do Ashtons c/o.......it would have taken me so long and then all this would be dragged out even longer.

 

[[Kg...]]

I spoke with my doctor and I actually went up on my night dose a little when I c/o and the day dose is now driving me nuts - so she recommended trying the 2 mg during the day vs the 2.5 so I can actually function and if that doesn't work and I feel awful then just be tired and go back up to the 2.5.  I think she is right and Ashton says this too  - that there is no real exact equivalency it is how our body reacts to it that counts - so I think tomorrow I will try the 2 mg at 1 PM - and keep the klonopin at 6 PM the same which is still the .125 or same as 2.5 Valium. She said to stay with this change longer than first planned if I tolerate it before crossing over the last klonopin dose.  If I can tolerate this so be it - if I can't I will be tired and take the 2.5.  Again when I took the extra .5 today I just went right to sleep and don't even feel like I can drive - it is a different feeling than the other sedation I felt on the other c/o - those I felt tired but better on - this one I just feel is too much - hard to explain but my brain is much too foggy and though I was tired and 'foggy' before on the c/o I was able to function - that is not fall asleep or feel like I just needed to be in bed.  Again even on the slow withdrawal sights everyone says listen to your body - so I will and if I get anxious during the day I will bump up to the 2.5 at 1 PM.  This is the dose I wanted to go down on anyway so maybe my body has finally adjusted to the valium.  My doctor also said I could stay on the klonopin but that for me is doing nothing and I feel better on the valium and believe I need a full cross over - only time will tell.  Again thanks for everyone's help.  This is hell to go through but we will get through it together.  I wish we could actually have a support group where we meet the people that would be so helpful since no one else understands what we are going through each and every day.

[[Fr...]]

I spoke with my doctor and I actually went up on my night dose a little when I c/o and the day dose is now driving me nuts - so she recommended trying the 2 mg during the day vs the 2.5 so I can actually function and if that doesn't work and I feel awful then just be tired and go back up to the 2.5.  I think she is right and Ashton says this too  - that there is no real exact equivalency it is how our body reacts to it that counts - so I think tomorrow I will try the 2 mg at 1 PM - and keep the klonopin at 6 PM the same which is still the .125 or same as 2.5 Valium. She said to stay with this change longer than first planned if I tolerate it before crossing over the last klonopin dose.  If I can tolerate this so be it - if I can't I will be tired and take the 2.5.  Again when I took the extra .5 today I just went right to sleep and don't even feel like I can drive - it is a different feeling than the other sedation I felt on the other c/o - those I felt tired but better on - this one I just feel is too much - hard to explain but my brain is much too foggy and though I was tired and 'foggy' before on the c/o I was able to function - that is not fall asleep or feel like I just needed to be in bed.  Again even on the slow withdrawal sights everyone says listen to your body - so I will and if I get anxious during the day I will bump up to the 2.5 at 1 PM.  This is the dose I wanted to go down on anyway so maybe my body has finally adjusted to the valium.  My doctor also said I could stay on the klonopin but that for me is doing nothing and I feel better on the valium and believe I need a full cross over - only time will tell.  Again thanks for everyone's help.  This is hell to go through but we will get through it together.  I wish we could actually have a support group where we meet the people that would be so helpful since no one else understands what we are going through each and every day.

 

Etown is right, you need to cross over to the equivalent dose as ashton suggests. The sedation goes away within 1-3 weeks, completely. If you cross over to a lower dose because the sedation is bothering you too much - when the sedation wears off,  there's a solid chance you're going to be in withdrawal. You want to try to avoid that, because when you crossover it's important to be stable for a month or so before you begin tapering. . . . If you crossover to a lower than equivalent dose, you're not going to be stable - and it could set the tone for the rest of your taper. If you do decide to drop .5mg, I suggest holding for a month and a half before you start to taper. The 1 month you should be anyways after the crossover, and 2 weeks for the .5mg reduction you're making.

 

Valium is more sedating than a lot of benzos, but IT DOES go away. If you crossover to an equivalent does, once your body is accustomed to the sedation, you will take your valium dose and feel literally nothing at all.

[Guest [Mo...]]

I spoke with my doctor and I actually went up on my night dose a little when I c/o and the day dose is now driving me nuts - so she recommended trying the 2 mg during the day vs the 2.5 so I can actually function and if that doesn't work and I feel awful then just be tired and go back up to the 2.5.  I think she is right and Ashton says this too  - that there is no real exact equivalency it is how our body reacts to it that counts - so I think tomorrow I will try the 2 mg at 1 PM - and keep the klonopin at 6 PM the same which is still the .125 or same as 2.5 Valium. She said to stay with this change longer than first planned if I tolerate it before crossing over the last klonopin dose.  If I can tolerate this so be it - if I can't I will be tired and take the 2.5.  Again when I took the extra .5 today I just went right to sleep and don't even feel like I can drive - it is a different feeling than the other sedation I felt on the other c/o - those I felt tired but better on - this one I just feel is too much - hard to explain but my brain is much too foggy and though I was tired and 'foggy' before on the c/o I was able to function - that is not fall asleep or feel like I just needed to be in bed.  Again even on the slow withdrawal sights everyone says listen to your body - so I will and if I get anxious during the day I will bump up to the 2.5 at 1 PM.  This is the dose I wanted to go down on anyway so maybe my body has finally adjusted to the valium.  My doctor also said I could stay on the klonopin but that for me is doing nothing and I feel better on the valium and believe I need a full cross over - only time will tell.  Again thanks for everyone's help.  This is hell to go through but we will get through it together.  I wish we could actually have a support group where we meet the people that would be so helpful since no one else understands what we are going through each and every day.

 

Etown is right, you need to cross over to the equivalent dose as ashton suggests. The sedation goes away within 1-3 weeks, completely. If you cross over to a lower dose because the sedation is bothering you too much - when the sedation wears off,  there's a solid chance you're going to be in withdrawal. You want to try to avoid that, because when you crossover it's important to be stable for a month or so before you begin tapering. . . . If you crossover to a lower than equivalent dose, you're not going to be stable - and it could set the tone for the rest of your taper. If you do decide to drop .5mg, I suggest holding for a month and a half before you start to taper. The 1 month you should be anyways after the crossover, and 2 weeks for the .5mg reduction you're making.

 

Valium is more sedating than a lot of benzos, but IT DOES go away. If you crossover to an equivalent does, once your body is accustomed to the sedation, you will take your valium dose and feel literally nothing at all.

 

I agree.

[[Kg...]]

This is a direct quote from Dr. Peart's  (Spelling?) web site - "During this period of dose substitution, sometimes cuts to your total dose are made, and other times, slight increases are made.  If you experience extreme over-sedation and no withdrawal symptoms, that is a sign that the equivalency dose is too high for you, and you may wish make a small cut in your total dose as you cross-over.  If, on the other hand, you begin to experience heightened withdrawal symptoms during cross-over, you may wish to make a small increase in your dose during cross-over.  Because the proper equivalencies vary from person to person, the cross-over process can be a matter of trial and error. However, it is important to understand that the end result of switching to Valium should be that you are relatively stable after the switch is complete, meaning that you are experiencing either no withdrawal or very mild withdrawal symptoms. " 

 

I thought is would be helpful for all of us doing these cross overs to see what he had to say.  I think he is correct since we all have different reactions to the drug at different times - me I need to up dose at night - like he suggests  which I did and now I need to go down during the day - and if it doesn't work tomorrow - I am back up to the dose and will live with the sedation and be on a higher dose than before and then cut from there but I think we have to recognize as he does that we all metabolize these drugs differently - I am 102 lbs now with no fat at all - my normal weight is around 110 to 115 lbs - and I am always very sensitive to all meds - I love it when doctors give me the same dose as someone who is 200 lbs and expect me to react the same way - and also remember most studies of meds are on men not women.

 

I am so tired right now I can barely function again - forgot to take my 6 PM dose so going to do that now - Love to all and thanks so much for caring about me.

[[Fr...]]

This is a direct quote from Dr. Peart's  (Spelling?) web site - "During this period of dose substitution, sometimes cuts to your total dose are made, and other times, slight increases are made.  If you experience extreme over-sedation and no withdrawal symptoms, that is a sign that the equivalency dose is too high for you, and you may wish make a small cut in your total dose as you cross-over.  If, on the other hand, you begin to experience heightened withdrawal symptoms during cross-over, you may wish to make a small increase in your dose during cross-over.  Because the proper equivalencies vary from person to person, the cross-over process can be a matter of trial and error. However, it is important to understand that the end result of switching to Valium should be that you are relatively stable after the switch is complete, meaning that you are experiencing either no withdrawal or very mild withdrawal symptoms. " 

 

I thought is would be helpful for all of us doing these cross overs to see what he had to say.  I think he is correct since we all have different reactions to the drug at different times - me I need to up dose at night - like he suggests  which I did and now I need to go down during the day - and if it doesn't work tomorrow - I am back up to the dose and will live with the sedation and be on a higher dose than before and then cut from there but I think we have to recognize as he does that we all metabolize these drugs differently - I am 102 lbs now with no fat at all - my normal weight is around 110 to 115 lbs - and I am always very sensitive to all meds - I love it when doctors give me the same dose as someone who is 200 lbs and expect me to react the same way - and also remember most studies of meds are on men not women.

 

I am so tired right now I can barely function again - forgot to take my 6 PM dose so going to do that now - Love to all and thanks so much for caring about me.

 

I just think that it'd be wise to err on the side of caution, and crossover to what Ashton suggests. If your body is used to a certain amount of benzo, in your case klonopin - it's going to want the same amount of benzo in the form of Valium. It just happens that Valium is more sedating, especially at first. You sound like you're doing enough research yourself to make an informed decision, and you know your body better than anyone else. The whole experience is going to come down to a trial and error type deal. If you start experiencing moderate withdrawal effects during your crossover I'd say it's safe to say you've made too large of a reduction, and you should know within a few days - and you can correct that be reinstating whatever you cut. . . So it's not life or death here, you'll figure it out.

 

The most important thing is that you want to be stable at a dose before crossing over, and stable for around a month post crossover before you begin to taper again. It doesn't really matter what dose that is.

[[ro...]]

Help. my doctor wnats me to just switch on over to 10 mgs. valium. Have been on1.125 ativan. He said I dont need to use both meds. Has anyone done this okay? Please reply. picking up valium in morning....

[Guest [Mo...]]

Help. my doctor wnats me to just switch on over to 10 mgs. valium. Have been on1.125 ativan. He said I dont need to use both meds. Has anyone done this okay? Please reply. picking up valium in morning....

Hey Rose, welcome to the thread! Glad you made it here.

From what I read in your blog, he will give you 2 mgr pills, to be taken every six hours or so, is that correct?

Because if you can take 2 mgr x4, that is not 10 mgr.

 

Would you have Ativan enough to do your own cross over?

 

Does a gone here have an answer to a direct cross over?

I am not a fan.

The Ashton manual is at our disposal and people cross over succefully. Also on a faster cross over.

Maybe Lynnie and Frotob can chime in here?

[[Fr...]]

IF you cross over to an equivalent dosage, which would be 11.25 mg Valium - It's is possible to do a very rapid crossover (3 days or so) , or even a direct crossover.

 

It probably won't be the most comfortable thing in the world, but an equivalent dose of valium would fill the void the ativan was lacking - so it's unlikely that you'd be in severe withdrawal. . .  probably mildly uncomfortable for a few days til your body rid itself of the ativan and the valium built up a little more.

 

It isn't ideal to go from 1.125mg Ativan to 10mg Valium no matter how long you plan your crossover to take.

[[Sm...]]

Adding to the shared agreement on: don't skimp on the c/o even if you feel sedated.

Sedation passes. And short term sedation is a hell of a lot preferable than the alternative: benzo w/d. Play it safe.

 

Lainey: yes if the sedation is bothering you absolutely move more to the night time. You don't need to dose as much on valium so it is a sensible thing to do if you want to be more functional. When I c/o I dosed only once per day at night because I didn't like the feeling of V during the day.

 

Keep well peeps 

[Guest [in...]]

I believe taking my 10mg valium at night in one dose really helps with the daytime sedation. I couldn't imagine taking even 5mg during the day. But I was also only on once daily klonopin, so I didn't have to do a day dose. Im finding that the valium at night really gets me to sleep quickly as well.

[[et...]]

Kgirl, I was just going to post almost the same question. I am so sedated when I take the 2:00 pm dose. its almost impossible to even do anything at all.

 

I just c/o from .25mg K at 2:00 to .125mg with 2.5mg V.  On sunday it will be 5mg V and I will be completely c/o.

 

so etown and all, do you think I should try cutting some off the 2:00 dose and add it to the evening?  Not sure how I could figure taking 1mg off the 5mg tab anyways.

 

I read all Of Dr Pearts info and I know that when I 1st went on klonopin I remember being somewhat sedated too. and it passed. But this seems even stronger sedation. I am in LA LA land

 

how soon will this settle down where I will be able to see straight in the afternoon? I am almost nil of anxiety now (which is wonderful) but so weak in the head, don't know which is worse.

 

UGH. I will say I am glad that I didn't do Ashtons c/o.......it would have taken me so long and then all this would be dragged out even longer.

 

Hi Laine - as long as the total dose goes down the gullet every day it will all work out. So, taking a bit off the 5mg pill during the day doesn't have to be that accurate.

etown

[[et...]]

IF you cross over to an equivalent dosage, which would be 11.25 mg Valium - It's is possible to do a very rapid crossover (3 days or so) , or even a direct crossover.

 

It probably won't be the most comfortable thing in the world, but an equivalent dose of valium would fill the void the ativan was lacking - so it's unlikely that you'd be in severe withdrawal. . .  probably mildly uncomfortable for a few days til your body rid itself of the ativan and the valium built up a little more.

 

It isn't ideal to go from 1.125mg Ativan to 10mg Valium no matter how long you plan your crossover to take.

I agree with Fro. 11.25 it is to avoid a disaster.

 

I think Reggie is a smart guy but if he were the King of the castle nobody would need to come on BB's

 

Take the darn equivalent doses as per Ashton people!

etown

[Guest [Mo...]]

IF you cross over to an equivalent dosage, which would be 11.25 mg Valium - It's is possible to do a very rapid crossover (3 days or so) , or even a direct crossover.

 

It probably won't be the most comfortable thing in the world, but an equivalent dose of valium would fill the void the ativan was lacking - so it's unlikely that you'd be in severe withdrawal. . .  probably mildly uncomfortable for a few days til your body rid itself of the ativan and the valium built up a little more.

 

It isn't ideal to go from 1.125mg Ativan to 10mg Valium no matter how long you plan your crossover to take.

I agree with Fro. 11.25 it is to avoid a disaster.

 

I think Reggie is a smart guy but if he were the King of the castle nobody would need to come on BB's

 

Take the darn equivalent doses as per Ashton people!

etown

 

Agree!!

[[ov...]]

Wowie zowie enjoying reading this thread....Laine How you doing girlfriend?

 

Wish I would have known about Ashton prior to my K taper and tramadol taper, now have severe w/d.  My temazepam c/o to V went well and I have tapered .5 every 2 weeks. So  now down to 14 mg V.  But I have not stabalized from the Klonocide.  Severe burning skin, tinnitus, rash, acid reflux, blurry vision (not as bad as in Dec), hypercussis, 15 lb weight loss, anxiety driving me up the wall.  I have been splitting my V into 2 doses. 7mg v at 10 pm, 7 mg V at 2pm, at least I get 7 hrs of sleep wish I could get more.  This burning skin is the worst................hurts to have anything, even clothes touch my skin.  Any ideas folks with all the knowledge.  Oh yeah, cannot do liquid taper as I am having extreme difficulty keeping food down. 

 

xo Overcomer  :smitten:

[[ro...]]

Im sorry. confused. So do most of you buddies think I could directly c/o to V, drop the ativan, or should I take an Ativan dose in the day then V in eve? Do this for a couple days, then switch to all Valiun? Take .25 ativan in am, then about 9 mgs of V in evening. See my signature. Please advice. Yhanks Rose

[[ro...]]

Should I do like another budy said and do half ativan, half valium for a few days? help please? Or to direct c/o wouldn't be too bad? Please feedback.    rosegal

[[Ch...]]

Hi Rose…hang on for a little bit…it's the wee hours of the morning many places and more members will be logged on soon.  If you look at the little square box by the names, it shows a green light if someone is logged on.  I wish I could answer but I don't know the best way to do this.