PLEASE DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL WHEN YOU FEEL RECOVERED

[[Bi...]]

Mostly been cautious with the alcohol these past four years, mostly limiting to two glasses of wine, only occasional martini or hard liquor, occasional 3 glasses of wine on special occasions.  Yesterday was the first time I've had three vodka martinis.  Seem to have handled it well.  Slept well.  Woke up feeling pretty good, not hung over.  Again, I am not advocating anyone do this in the first year off.  Just saying that for some, after some period of healing, perhaps around 1 year or longer for some, it may be possible to consume alcohol without fear of the dreaded wave.  Others may be more sensitive and may prefer to abstain.  I think I've been pretty reasonable about gradually building up and not overdoing it, not binge drinking.  I think 3 is my  limit though.  I would not under any circumstance consume 4 or more alcoholic beverages .

 

V

 

V I agree, I'm but a humble vaudevillian veteran cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! The only verdict is Vodka

 

That's some mighty fine alliteration Birdman .  I salute your sagacious sequential soliloquy .

 

V

[[Ch...]]

Very impressive.

[[su...]]

You're both blooddy mad!!!

(huge Laugh!!!).

 

 

[[ba...]]

i miss drinking    i always eyeball the booze when i pass by it when im at the store  :'(    , in the past it was something i looked forward to do and the relaxing feeling i felt after the 3rd or more drinks was nice

[[su...]]

Hi babyangel,

If I could go back and give myself advice,

I'd say I'd be safe to gently have more than one or 2 drinks about a year after my last benzo!

The 2 week holiday of drinking at the 7 month mark did cause me grief, although a wine or 2 with a meal before and after that time did not.

I definitely wouldn't recommend binging!

I don't think I'll ever provide an answer re that, as it's something I'll hopefully never actually do!!!

 

[[ba...]]

haha yaa during my binging days i would drink a whole 12pack of budweiser if i ran out i would have some backup busch haha

[[su...]]

Definitely something I would not attempt even now!

Heh Heh!

I think that would leave you in a mess regardless of benzo WDs!

 

[[...]]

I'm now 25 months off, and I can drink alcohol with no problems.

 

I have drank wine, champagne, liquor, and it doesn't bother me.

 

You really do heal enough to drink without problems, or at least, that's the way it went for me.

 

This is good news, we need optimism that we can drink caffeine and alcohol like we used to. 

[[su...]]

Hi inw,

Well, I can second that.

At the 7 month mark, I drank and got something of a setback from it.

It was a bit each day for 2 weeks on a holiday, but still...

Now I can do 1 or 2 nights a week at friends or clubs, and the only thing I get is the normal effects of alcohol, which don't do much if you only have a moderate amount!

So, I think I can say that at the 13 month mark now, I am vastly more able to drink than I was at 7.

This is good!

I do keep to rules of moderation, and I never drink alone!

 

[[ba...]]

as long as this alprazolam quitting is taking by the time i quit and detoxed cannabis will probably be legalized in every state in america 

[[su...]]

I shudder to think what that would do with WD!

Actually the old MJ was bad enough to me anyway, especially if I'd had any alcohol too.

shot pulse rate up to 180 and kept it there for an hour or so, very scary stuff!

I haven't touched it for years!!!

Mix that with some seveer anxiety,

BBAAADDD!!!

 

[[me...]]

I'm now 25 months off, and I can drink alcohol with no problems.

 

 

 

 

I am 5 years off and can only drink one or two drinks once in a while or all hell break lose anew.

 

It seems alcohol use issues is pretty directly related to the severity of withdrawal.

 

At 25 months I was still much too sick to even consider taking a smell of alcohol.

[[ba...]]

ive been tempted alot of times to try having a drink its been 2 years since ive had one , especially like if i had a bad day i almost feel like "who cares if something bad happens" but i remember my parents who are good to me especially mom so i want to just take care of myself , alcoholism runs in my family my grategrandfather and grategrandma both died from drinking too much, all 4 of my mom's brothers are alcoholics both of my parents dont drink however

the alcohol "beer buzz" probably woulnt feel the same having a lil wiff of xanax in me

i remember like 3-4 years ago the alcohol buzz felt different if i had taken a valarian root pill like 12 hours before i started drinking

 

[Guest [ba...]]

I chickened out tonight.  Was going to try just a sip of my wife's beer at dinner.  However, I was having a good day, and decided that I liked it that way.

[[su...]]

Hi babyangel,

Hmm, You may  have the gene as they say!

Perhaps better to keep off the stuff, count it as a blessing!

 

[[ba...]]

what bothers me most the last 2 years of being "sick" is that i havnt been able to have a drink i started drinking in 2007 until  early 2012 that was something i looked forward to doing even during those years i drank often 2 or 3 times a week after i was 18 , back then if i got a flu or tummy virus i was mad not because i was sick i was mad bcuz i couldnt drink ! i had a close dwi call before i was driving from my ranch 25 miles back home i had drank there earlier that night with a friend i got a call from my baby brother we talked some and he said " mom doesnt feel well" i worried and packed up my stuff and took off , i took the WRONG exit on a highway instead of a gradual exit it was a 90 degree turn i ran off into a ditch got stuck down there , i called home for help the cops got there sooner, i had my beer in my pickup 40s and cans of budweiser i had drank just 6 12oz i got off luckily i think they knew i had been drinking they just gave me a break

[[...]]

Frankly, I could not have got this far in my taper without a few glasses of wine (or more ) to help me on my way some evenings.  The only thing I changed was to miss my evening taper dose.  So, in other words, I substitute one for the other. The one time I forgot and took my dose of Valium as well as the wine and did pay for it the next morning with a hangover. 

 

Each to his own I would say. If I had to listen to every person's negative experience I would be a basketcase during withdrawal.  It's hard enough as it is.

 

We are all different so to say that 'everyone' should not drink any alcohol when recovered (as the title of this thread implies) is scaremongering imvho.

 

Zizi

[[me...]]

Frankly, I could not have got this far in my taper without a few glasses of wine (or more ) to help me on my way some evenings.  The only thing I changed was to miss my evening taper dose.  So, in other words, I substitute one for the other. The one time I forgot and took my dose of Valium as well as the wine and did pay for it the next morning with a hangover. 

 

Each to his own I would say. If I had to listen to every person's negative experience I would be a basketcase during withdrawal.  It's hard enough as it is.

 

We are all different so to say that 'everyone' should not drink any alcohol when recovered (as the title of this thread implies) is scaremongering imvho.

 

Zizi

 

Many folks don't seem to understand this. Alcohol is a direct replacement for the benzo so drinking will stop the withdrawal process.

 

Problem is, your body is again increasing it's dependence and withdrawal will be worse.

 

You are quite wrong in considering it scare mongering to suggest that alcohol is not a very bad idea during withdrawal.

 

Let me further state , I am anything but a "you can't drink" nut case. I drank lot's and miss not being able to drink terribly.

 

Fact is, if you have a serious withdrawal, forget alcohol, sugar and caffeine, for years and years.

[[xe...]]

Fact is, if you have a serious withdrawal, forget alcohol, sugar and caffeine, for years and years.

 

I don't think any rules are this hard and fast. Some people have no problem at all with sugar. I've found caffeine helpful (outside of during acute w/d and during very bad flare-ups), and there's reason to suspect that chronic consumption of caffeine might up-regulate GABA receptors.

 

Alcohol is clearly more problematic, but it's not a "direct replacement" for benzos. It does not bind to the BDZ site. The end result is still increased GABA activity as a result of chloride channel activation, yes - but it seems to cause much worse problems for some people than others.

 

Some people have reported severe problems with even limited amounts of alcohol consumption; other people have consumed moderate amounts of alcohol all the way through their tapers without any trouble. I'd say that I'm somewhere in the middle; during the period when I was completely off benzos (and during some rough patches on the way down, and afterwards), I found it prudent to completely abandon alcohol. Since I've been off entirely, I have noted that I pay an unusually severe price if I forget myself and consume more than a moderate amount of alcohol (but I also think that's not really a good idea for anyone, benzos or not).

 

It's not scaremongering to suggest that alcohol is potentially problematic, has a similar mechanism to benzos, and is likely to significantly complicate withdrawal if it's used abusively. I think it is scaremongering to suggest that literally everyone who's withdrawn from benzos needs to abstain from it entirely or pay a terrible price -- let alone to suggest that people who have withdrawn need to abstain from sugar, caffeine and benzos for years. That's simply untrue for the vast majority of people who discontinue benzos, and I don't think it holds up even when you just look at the minority of people who make their way to this forum.

 

Know yourself, know your own limits, and do what's best for yourself. I think it's unwise to make dramatic claims about what is or isn't true for other people based on our own experiences.

[[xe...]]

Sorry for the rant -- the reason I think this is important is that if we let ourselves become too obsessive about what we can or can't do, there's a risk of putting our lives inside a continually shrinking box labeled "benzo withdrawal" and just feeding the whole process of anxious fixation. Withdrawal is a process, it's going to play out how it will, and if I spend a lot of time analyzing every little thing that I do from the perspective of withdrawal, it just makes me miserable. The biggest hurdle I've had to overcome through this whole stupid deal, has been figuring out how to have some semblance of a normal life while still knowing that I don't feel as well as I might otherwise. The times that I've withdrawn the most from the things I enjoy, have been the times that I've done the worst and come the closest to being non-functional. Getting up every day, going to work, having coffee when I get there and eating a donut or drinking a beer when a co-worker brings some in reminds me that I'm a normal person leading a normal life, even if I don't usually feel that way internally.

[[...]]

Thank you, Xerxes, I couldn't have put it better myself.

 

Having already cold turkeyed off 15mg Temazepam and a mega dose of MocIobemide which I had been on for the last 30 years, and got through the other end, I am extremely sensitive to those all too ready to make blanket statements. Abuse of any substance is not healthy but drinking in moderation, or not at all, depending on the individual.... well, this is common sense.

[[me...]]

Fact is, if you have a serious withdrawal, forget alcohol, sugar and caffeine, for years and years.

 

I don't think any rules are this hard and fast. Some people have no problem at all with sugar. I've found caffeine helpful (outside of during acute w/d and during very bad flare-ups), and there's reason to suspect that chronic consumption of caffeine might up-regulate GABA receptors.

 

Alcohol is clearly more problematic, but it's not a "direct replacement" for benzos. It does not bind to the BDZ site. The end result is still increased GABA activity as a result of chloride channel activation, yes - but it seems to cause much worse problems for some people than others.

 

Some people have reported severe problems with even limited amounts of alcohol consumption; other people have consumed moderate amounts of alcohol all the way through their tapers without any trouble. I'd say that I'm somewhere in the middle; during the period when I was completely off benzos (and during some rough patches on the way down, and afterwards), I found it prudent to completely abandon alcohol. Since I've been off entirely, I have noted that I pay an unusually severe price if I forget myself and consume more than a moderate amount of alcohol (but I also think that's not really a good idea for anyone, benzos or not).

 

It's not scaremongering to suggest that alcohol is potentially problematic, has a similar mechanism to benzos, and is likely to significantly complicate withdrawal if it's used abusively. I think it is scaremongering to suggest that literally everyone who's withdrawn from benzos needs to abstain from it entirely or pay a terrible price -- let alone to suggest that people who have withdrawn need to abstain from sugar, caffeine and benzos for years. That's simply untrue for the vast majority of people who discontinue benzos, and I don't think it holds up even when you just look at the minority of people who make their way to this forum.

 

Know yourself, know your own limits, and do what's best for yourself. I think it's unwise to make dramatic claims about what is or isn't true for other people based on our own experiences.

 

You can use alcohol instead of benzos to avoid withdrawal symptoms or stop them. You can use alcohol to avoid benzo withdrawal for years in fact.

--------------------------

 

Everything is relative.

 

If you are ok enough to have a few drinks during withdraw your withdrawal is not significant. Sugar and caffeine are less problematic and most people in withdrawel don't need to be very concerned about either. However if your withdrawal is significant (here is the problem, most people think they are in a terrible withdrawal but simply are not if evaluated objectively) just shelve the Sugar, caffeine and alcohol for a few years or more.

 

Since I already know you will disagree, please tell me what is the point of having a few drinks while in withdrawal? Do you do a short run once in a while with a broken leg?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[me...]]

Sorry for the rant -- the reason I think this is important is that if we let ourselves become too obsessive about what we can or can't do, there's a risk of putting our lives inside a continually shrinking box labeled "benzo withdrawal" and just feeding the whole process of anxious fixation.

 

I wholly agree.

 

 

Withdrawal is a process, it's going to play out how it will, and if I spend a lot of time analyzing every little thing that I do from the perspective of withdrawal, it just makes me miserable. The biggest hurdle I've had to overcome through this whole stupid deal, has been figuring out how to have some semblance of a normal life while still knowing that I don't feel as well as I might otherwise. The times that I've withdrawn the most from the things I enjoy, have been the times that I've done the worst and come the closest to being non-functional. Getting up every day, going to work, having coffee when I get there and eating a donut or drinking a beer when a co-worker brings some in reminds me that I'm a normal person leading a normal life, even if I don't usually feel that way internally.

 

Again, I completely agree.

 

This takes me right back to relativity. There are many people who are so SEVERELY sick that the above advice is just bad and wrong.

This is a big problem in Benzo withdrawal and Benzo forums.

 

You give sound advice for one level of benzo withdrawal but it's terrible advise for a different level of benzo withdrawal.

 

 

[[xe...]]

You can use alcohol instead of benzos to avoid withdrawal symptoms or stop them. You can use alcohol to avoid benzo withdrawal for years in fact.

this might be true in some cases for some people, but it's not a tautology. Alcohol did nothing but exacerbate my more severe symptoms, which is why I've discontinued intake entirely when things have been really bad.

If you are ok enough to have a few drinks during withdraw your withdrawal is not significant. Sugar and caffeine are less problematic and most people in withdrawel don't need to be very concerned about either. However if your withdrawal is significant (here is the problem, most people think they are in a terrible withdrawal but simply are not if evaluated objectively) just shelve the Sugar, caffeine and alcohol for a few years or more.

There's no such thing as 'objective evaluation'. Everyone has a viewpoint; every viewpoint has a bias. You are no more the arbiter of what is or is not "severe withdrawal" than I am. It's all well and good for us to agree that caffeine and sugar aren't a big deal for most people, but other people disagree with that view and maddeningly enough we're no more right than they are.

 

Since I already know you will disagree, please tell me what is the point of having a few drinks while in withdrawal? Do you do a short run once in a while with a broken leg?

The strongest statement I made in defense of alcohol was that it's scaremongering to suggest that everyone withdrawing from benzos needs to completely abstain from alcohol, and I said it in the context of not projecting our own experiences on to other people. If you want to avoid alcohol and think it's making your withdrawal easier to do so, then you're probably right and are doing the right thing. That doesn't make it true for anyone other than yourself.

[[me...]]

 

 

You reason well and are educated. Good. We may be able to come to some more agreement.

 

1) Please explain your alcohol use in both timeline and situation in reference to this statement.

"this might be true in some cases for some people, but it's not a tautology. Alcohol did nothing but exacerbate my more severe symptoms, which is why I've discontinued intake entirely when things have been really bad. "

 

2) This was actually my point. " There's no such thing as 'objective evaluation'" There should be and can easily be. Once your level of withdrawal is established more targeted help can be had.

 

3) I can't fully agree with this, " If you want to avoid alcohol and think it's making your withdrawal easier to do so, then you're probably right and are doing the right thing. That doesn't make it true for anyone other than yourself." In theory you are correct but virtually all  double blind tests involving humans perceptions prove them mistake about things like cause and effect. As alcohol can actually ease withdrawal it would obviously be seen as not detrimental to withdrawal to many even if the totally effect is to make their withdrawal longer and less tolerable.

 

Without measurements your statement is likely not good advise.