Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[be...]]

Hi, Mairin33:

 

Good to hear from you. Average Ativan half life is 13 h in adults, but as you say the fx last about 6-8 h. One dose/day is a setup for intradose WD = feel bad all the time. There's plenty of crazy docs around, that's why many of us are where we are. I think it's WAY important not to follow a "doctor's orders" just because he's wearing a white coat. That could cost you your life.

 

I don't know what "being your buddy" means; I'm totally new here. If it means sharing honestly, well that's why I signed up.

 

When I'm stable at 2 mg Ativan 3 X day, I'll have to decide what part (if any) Valium is going to play in my taper. There's pros and cons on both sides; Dr. Ashton is fantastic, and Valium is not for everyone. Ativan is produced in liquid form (water solution) in various concentrations, so I'm puzzled by all the problems people have with splitting tablets. With pipettes and proper dilution, you can measure 1/100 mL accurately!

 

aweigh,

 

These kinds of comments go directly against the guidelines and rules of this forum. We are not an anti-doctor site. Please read our Anti-doctor and Anti-psychiatry Sentiments Advisory guidelines and refrain from such comments in the future.

 

Hope

 

 

Although aweigh is coming off a little brash, I believe the comments about docs might have been misinterpreted a bit. I think the gist was that aweigh feels its important not to blindly follow all doctors orders. This is something I think we can all agree on yes? I'm not anti doctor at all. But questioning them and doing your own research is key in my opinion. And that is how I read aweighs comment.

 

Anyway, hi everyone. Still doing good here. Doing my own version of a micro taper and I'm highly functioning. And feeling really really happy about it. Slow is the way to go for me. No doubt.

My solution concentration is weird but essentially I'm cutting about 2% every 3 days. I like making cuts more often. Psychologically it feels as I you are making faster more visible progress.

I get mild to slightly more than mild physical symptoms but no harsh drops. I light even move a little faster if it keeps going this way. We'll see. As you can tell I'm feeling a little cocky. This has gotten me in trouble before.

 

So so glad we have this forum. I'm so glad you all are here. Thank you!

 

 

BDL

[[Ho...]]

Although aweigh is coming off a little brash' date=' I believe the comments about docs might have been misinterpreted a bit. I think the gist was that aweigh feels its important not to blindly follow all doctors orders. This is something I think we can all agree on yes?[/quote']

 

Regardless of what he may or may not have meant, it is his writing style that goes against the rules of this forum. I don't mind that he's being brash. I can be quite brash myself. 

[[aw...]]

Hello, Hope:

 

Looks like I lost my reply. I'll try again. Shorter this time. I do understand why this forum must control comments by members about MDs. I could have made my point without going on about how "there's plenty of crazy docs around". I will avoid this writing style in the future.

 

I'd like to point out that several researchers in this field have concluded that benzo dependance is clearly an iatrogenic (doctor-caused) condition. Prescribing recomendations advising against administration of benzos for more than 2-4 weeks were published by the manufacturers in 1988. These statements are not opinions; I can document them, and I believe Dr. Ashton speaks to these points in her 2005 paper.

 

OK. Enough of 'I'm right, so there'. We're all heading for the same place and we're all trying to help each other get there. Onward!

 

Aweigh

[[Mu...]]

If you take a smaller dose, like lets say I cut the dose in half and take .25mg, is the half life still the same as the whole dose but just a different mg or is it totally different? I get lost in all the technical details of medicine but I'm trying to figure out the best possible way to taper slowly by taking a couple of smaller daily doses and greatly reducing or eliminating w/d all together since that seems like the best way to do it. Also, how would I cut .125mg? Thanks for all info.

[[aw...]]

Hi, MM:

I had a nice, long post for you and just lost it. Briefly, do NOT try to "greatly reducing or eliminating w/d all together". If you don't use a regular, gradual taper schedule you risk insanity, truly. Plenty of 'horror stories' right on this site. The Ashton Manual (links from this site or Google it) has taper schedules for Ativan; I'll be using the 6 mg one myself as soon as I'm stable. Liquid for the last half, no pill cutting. Maybe Valium, maybe not. Many docs in the US won't prescribe it; often not necessary. You mention 0.25 mg doses; that's Xanax, not Ativan. Have you switched over yet?

 

Aweigh

[[Mu...]]

Yes I did switch over several days ago and I was taking .5mg Ativan but what I was talking about was cutting the pills in half which would make it .25mg instead of .5 the reason is to space out the dosage longer in the day instead of taking 1 dose, it's basically to control w/d symptoms and that seems to be the way to do it. By cutting doses and taking several small daily doses you can control you symptoms better, I guess my problem is when you get into the lower doses it's harder to make cuts because it's a small dose.

[[aw...]]

MM:

 

Just realized you're taking 0.5 mg of Ativan, not Xanax. That's a very low dose, lucky you. If you're truly stable (few or no symptoms) you can be free pretty soon--but don't rush it. The 0.5 mg tabs are tiny, use a single edge razor blade rather than a pill cutter. At this point, you need liquid Ativan from your doc or start reading about "titration tapers" on this site.

 

Just read you latest post. Makes sense. Smaller, more frequent cuts is better. Go liquid.

 

Aweigh

[[Mu...]]

Talked to my dr about switching to Valium when I was on Xanax but he didn't want to go that route cause he says it causes depression and other issues. I've known people to come off of the faster benzos with little problems. I guess the thing that's bothering me the most is which way to go to finish up the taper and what is gonna happen when I finally stop taking these meds, probably the anxiety. I may say something to my dr about the liquid. I'm gonna go as slow as I can to make sure that there's enough time for my body to heal from taking these meds so when I do quit, it will all work out.

[[aw...]]

MM:

I'm going to ask the question you're never supposed to ask on these sites: why do you have to go to 0 right now? You're taking a very small dose of Ativan, you've only been taking benzos for 3-4 years and not at high doses. You seem to have a lot of anxiety about jumping off these anti-anxiety drugs. Unless you have other serious health issues, why not sit at 1 mg/day for a while? If your doc will go for it, jump off for Xmas. Just a thought. I hope they don't bodyslam me for saying it, but if I can't say what I think then I don't belong here.

 

Aweigh

[[Mu...]]

Well I don't guess I have to go to 0 right now I mean there's no particular reason. Actually I'm probably gonna do it .25 twice a day for a while until things sorta calm down. The main reason my anxiety is high about stopping them is because I've read such horror stories about stopping them that I guess it's made it worse in that aspect of it, anxiety sucks and the doc wants me to take an ssri for that but I'm not really crazy about that idea either, but I may have to in order to control the anxiety. But that's a whole other story  :

[[aw...]]

Is a lot of the anxiety about leaving Ativan?

[[Mu...]]

I'm not anxious about quitting, I want off these meds, I just don't want to have a horrible time when I quit that's why I'm so anxious cause of what I've seen and read. Everybody is different though.

[[aw...]]

That's pretty much me too...in 9 months! The 'horror stories' can hold you back. My fear of alcohol w/d kept me from sobriety for several years, kinda the same thing with cigs. I just recently figured out that benzos are kinda the key to my problems in the sense that they keep me from getting and doing a lot of things I want...and I'm 61. It's harvest time.

Not to be nosy, but how old are you and what state do you live in?

 

Aweigh

[[Mu...]]

Yeah I'm sure having an anxiety disorder and reading horror stories of folks stopping benzos probably ain't smart but it gives you a sense that other people out there are facing the same thing you are. I guess one advantage i have is being at a low dose for the entire time I've been on these meds.

[[co...]]

Marin, thank you for your kind note.

 

I was wondering if you or anyone else had some thoughts on my cutting every week or 10 days by 5% rather then every 2 weeks by 10%?

 

Perhaps 10% is too much all at once for my system. Do you think a week is enough time to adapt to 5%? I seem to stabilize within a week, give or take on the 8-10% so perhaps that is worth trying as the next step?  I realize it is trial and error, however I am checking in as many people here are more experienced then I am and may have tried that already. This last cut of 8% was not to bad and I seem to feel better today which is about a week.

[[Ho...]]

Monday morning so checking in with all the AV club to see how we are all doing....lots of activity this weekend.

 

Mustang Man and Aweigh -- welcome and hope those of us who have been at this a little longer can help you out!!  MM, please do NOT let the fear of jumping off scare you into titrating and / or stopping.  I'm just about there (aiming to be off on July 23), and am nervous about it too because my tapering has been really tough, but let me tell you a story.  Several times in the past I've been on a low dose of Klonopin that was prescribed to help me sleep when I've had to updose my SSRI (which I take to INCREASE my blood pressure, btw!), and I've gotten off of it 3 different times.  At the worst (which was this April, and during which I was suffering other health issues), I had about 10 days of yucky withdrawal -- GI issues, really vertigo dizzy, headaches, feeling lightheaded, adrenaline rushes, generally feeling "unstable", jitters, etc.  BUT IT ALL DISAPPEARED after that 10 days.  Does 10 days suck, yes?  Does feeling sedated, dizzy and off because you are on a benzo for a longer period of time suck worse.  YES.  To me, it all depends on how you are feeling ON the med.  If can function at a high level and are feeling ok ON the med (but just want off b/c you dont want these things controlling you any more, or want to eliminate slight side effects) = GO SUPER SLOW.  If, like me, you can't function on these meds because they make you feel so whacked out or have some underling med condition = GO A LITTLE FASTER.

 

BDL, I'm glad to hear you are doing so well.    I wish my taper was as easy as yours but we all know I made my choice to go a bit faster, so I'll take the bed I've made.    YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE IT AND I'M SO HAPPY FOR YOU!!

 

Tina and Mairin, way to go....so happy you are making progress!!

 

Concerned, I agree with Mairin that whatever keeps you at the level you are functioning, go with it.  I'm only going so fast because I feel so bad ON the Ativan and couldn't work ON it, so I need to get off.  Wish my doc had never prescribed it, but there we are.  .  Maybe PM BDL, because he seems to be the one who has gone fast and crashed, and then gone super slow and maintained a high level of functioning (even while on the Ativan), so I think he's the best at giving perspective to those who function ok on the Ativan.

 

My week was really tough, but that's because Aunt Flo showed up and she makes all of my side effects worse.  So, lots of jitters, tummy troubles, super dizzy, in bed a few days, and feeling super lightheaded when I stood up a few days.....ugh.  Yesterday it calmed down a bit, so that's good.    Still planning on pushing to the end and jumping off next week to get this poison that is wreaking havoc with my nervous system out of my body!!!!  I'm determined to make it!! 

 

Ok, just my two....ok, eight cents.  Have a good week everybody.  Keep up the good work -- think positive thoughts, think how much better life will be off these meds!

 

Cheers!!

[[Ho...]]

Concerned, I would try out the smaller cuts more often and see how it does for you.  The only perspective I can offer you is my experience w/ Klonopin and Ativan....in the past with Klonopin I cut bigger cuts (25%) every month; Ativan I've made smaller cuts (15 - 20%) every week.    I would tell you that the Klonopin was easier, because I gave my body a "rest" -- had some w/d for 4-5 days, then 3 + weeks of feeling ok and steeling myself for the next cut.

 

Ativan has been tougher, because I'm not *quite* stabilizing in between cuts (like you, I get the worst at about Day 5, and then it is up and down after that, but by then I'm cutting again).  Psychologically, it has been harder because I don't get the breaks I got with my Klonopin taper.    I think if I gave myself more time in between Ativan cuts, this whole process may have been easier on me.  But, I'm so close to the end that I'm just going to keep going.  One week I did make a smaller cut and the w/d sx were less, and it did give me a little bit of a boost.

 

So, I would say if cutting by larger amounts every two weeks works for you, stick with it.  Maybe try the smaller cuts for a week or two and see how that goes and compare.  It's kind of like picking your poison -- more days of yucky w/d sx with the smaller cuts but the sx are less, or less w/d days, but stronger sx.  I bet you BDL will tell you that more days of less sx is better than less days of stronger sx!!!!  And, if I had the luxury of doing that, I would have!    Either way, you will make it!!!!   

[[be...]]

Smaller, more frequent cuts are almost always tolerated better than larger less frequent cuts.

Pretty much a fact. I've become a big fan of this lately.

Stay with the 5% in my opinion. But our are really just going to have to experiment cautiously.

You'll be fine.

 

BDL

[[Ho...]]

Hello, Hope:

 

Looks like I lost my reply. I'll try again. Shorter this time. I do understand why this forum must control comments by members about MDs. I could have made my point without going on about how "there's plenty of crazy docs around". I will avoid this writing style in the future.

 

I'd like to point out that several researchers in this field have concluded that benzo dependance is clearly an iatrogenic (doctor-caused) condition. Prescribing recomendations advising against administration of benzos for more than 2-4 weeks were published by the manufacturers in 1988. These statements are not opinions; I can document them, and I believe Dr. Ashton speaks to these points in her 2005 paper.

 

OK. Enough of 'I'm right, so there'. We're all heading for the same place and we're all trying to help each other get there. Onward!

 

Aweigh

 

I'm not disputing the facts and I am very familiar with Dr. Ashton. If you look at my signature I'm also part of this unfortunate benzo club and I understand the level of frustration.

 

However, I am also the Senior Administrator of this forum so I have to wear that hat more so than my "I'm frustrated with doctors too" hat. There are certainly ways to pass on this sort of information without it sounding like doctor bashing.

 

Thank you for understanding and cooperation.

 

 

Hope

[[Ho...]]

MM:

I'm going to ask the question you're never supposed to ask on these sites: why do you have to go to 0 right now? You're taking a very small dose of Ativan, you've only been taking benzos for 3-4 years and not at high doses. You seem to have a lot of anxiety about jumping off these anti-anxiety drugs. Unless you have other serious health issues, why not sit at 1 mg/day for a while? If your doc will go for it, jump off for Xmas. Just a thought. I hope they don't bodyslam me for saying it, but if I can't say what I think then I don't belong here.

 

Aweigh

 

Aweigh,

 

We encourage members to say what they think as long as you follow our guidelines. Have you read our Forum Rules? You seem to be unclear regarding what can and can't be said on the forum. These rules and guidelines should clear that up for you.

 

I would also ask that you use a non-prescritive writing style. That is, you're not permitted to tell a member what they ought to be doing regarding their medications. You can certainly convey your own experiences but we draw the line at telling a member what they should be doing.

 

A more detailed explanation of this policy can be found in our Guidelines Regarding the Giving of Medical Advice document.

 

If you follow our FUM I don't see any problems with you contributing to this forum. Should you require further explanation regarding our rules, please don't hesitate to send me a PM.

 

Hope

[[co...]]

BDL or anyone else,

Thanks for you feedback.

 

I am hoping i will hardly feel a 5% cut, however is 7 days enough time to stabilize on that before starting another 5% cut. If i do it that way and start another 5% after 7 days, i may feel it more on the second week as then it will be 10% starting the 8Th day. Any thoughts on how much time i should leave between smaller cuts?

 

Do you think 5% every 10 days is a better way to go? i am ordering compounded capsules so i need to order in advance. 5% every 10 days will take me much longer however if necessary, i will consider it to function optimally or perhaps 6 or 7% every 10 days....i would like to find the right balance between minimal withdrawal to function fully and also keep it moving as like everyone else i want this to be over sooner then later....

 

Let me know what you suggest?

 

 

 

[[Mu...]]

Thanks hoosierfan, it's pretty much the anxiety and just wondering what's gonna happen which like I said before certainly doesn't help coming off the meds, but I know it can be done. People have told me before to just stop taking them but they dont realize what you feel like if you just stop, I actually tried c/t before and it was a bad idea so it just makes sense that slowly weaning off them is best.

[[Ma...]]

I wish I had better advice for you all but I have been put on this crazy high dose.

 

I am new to cutting too.  Last year at this time I was on 2.5 mgs A.  Then within 5 months I was raised to the equivalent of 12 A.  I think my doctor did me a very great wrong.  I was not having interdose withdrawals and I did not ask for a raise in dose.

 

I've come off the eqivalent of 6 mgs A in three months and was in a bad and non-functional state for about two months.

 

I am more than dismayed at this position I'm in.

[[Mu...]]

Ok so I cut my dose in half, .25 in the day and .25 at night, for te past couple days and so far it's going good. I'll probably stay here for some time then continue to cut lower. Thanks for all the advice from everyone.

[[be...]]

Hey MM. Yeah hold there for a week at least and see how it works for you. I had to do 4 doses. Even 3 wouldn't work. But I was also coming down from 3 to 4 mg.

Coming down from a total .5 may not be all that hellish.

"hellish" has taken on new shape and meaning since I met Ativan! Kind of funny. But not really.

 

BDL