Is there any evidence anti depressants slow healing?

[[jo...]]

sorry to bore people with the AD thing again but I think I'm going to give it a shot on a regular basis as opposed to intermitent mirt for sleep. Of course I'm full of doubt as I think anyone is here, but I have to do something as the depression and all that goes with it is starting to render me incapacitated at times. The obvious question is does it interfear with healing. Thoughts and experiences are welcome.

Edited Friday at 20:08 by [jo...]

[[Cr...]]

I have not seen any evidence that ADs can prevent or slow down the recovery from benzo withdrawal. Dr. Ashton herself says they may be necessary at times and her main reservation is in regards to a patient having to endure the startup effects. However, you need to keep in mind what you define as recovery.

We cannot officially tell when our gaba receptors have mostly gone back to normal. There is no medical test to determine that as far as I am aware. So it mostly goes on how we feel.

 Now what if some long-lasting benzo withdrawal symptoms you are experiencing are anhedonia, lack of sex drive, heat intolerance, and depression. You decide to take an AD and the depression goes away, and as time goes on your Gaba receptors are basically functioning normally again (full recovery). Would you say that an AD has prevented your recovery from benzos if you are still experiencing anhedonia, low sex drive, and heat intolerance? Even if those symptoms are no longer from benzo withdrawal but are a side effect from the AD?

So in theory, if you define recovery as feeling exactly like you did before benzo use/withdrawal, then yes there is a good chance AD will interfere with that recovery. If you define it as a reversal of changes benzos made in your body, then an AD is not going to interfere with that process.

[[jo...]]

Thanks Crono, sorry to keep harping on about this. It's also the fact that mirt can be tricky to get off of and another withdrawl down the line that could be a problem. I've heard it can be nasty for some. When I read about previous drug withdrawls making subsequent withdrawls more difficult does that only apply to withdrawls that effect the same receptors? So would my benzo withdrawls effect my AD withdrawls? I know were talking different receptors but there part of the same nervous system.

Edited Friday at 21:02 by [jo...]

[[Cr...]]

9 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

I know were talking different receptors but there part of the same nervous system.

There is a difference between temporary damage done to our cns, the sensitivity that comes from that damage, and the medications/substances that cause you to notice that sensitivity. For example, if benzo use has caused you to have a sensitive nervous system, that means you will experience more severe symptoms from anything that interacts with your cns, like caffeine, various supplements, etc.  Even minor stress can have a much stronger effect. 

Just because you feel the effects of these things doesn't mean they are setting you back and causing more damage to the source of your cns sensitivity. AD start-up effects may be much more intense in someone going through benzo withdrawal but as long as they not interfering the with same receptors that are at fault, they should not be viewed as slowing/preventing healing.

That said, ADs can cause downregulation to other types of receptors and can affect the cns in other ways that will also cause the nervous system to become sensitized if withdrawn from too quickly. 

It is a risk you will have to weigh. Potential relief in the present at the expense of possible long-term side effects and withdrawal issues in the future.

[[jo...]]

3 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

There is a difference between temporary damage done to our cns, the sensitivity that comes from that damage, and the medications/substances that cause you to notice that sensitivity. For example, if benzo use has caused you to have a sensitive nervous system, that means you will experience more severe symptoms from anything that interacts with your cns, like caffeine, various supplements, etc.  Even minor stress can have a much stronger effect. 

Just because you feel the effects of these things doesn't mean they are setting you back and causing more damage to the source of your cns sensitivity. AD start-up effects may be much more intense in someone going through benzo withdrawal but as long as they not interfering the with same receptors that are at fault, they should not be viewed as slowing/preventing healing.

That said, ADs can cause downregulation to other types of receptors and can affect the cns in other ways that will also cause the nervous system to become sensitized if withdrawn from too quickly. 

It is a risk you will have to weigh. Potential relief in the present at the expense of possible long-term side effects and withdrawal issues in the future.

Thanks Crono. It's a toughie. Do I F'k want to do something like this again but at the same time, I have to get through this. It's a cruel game in every way.

[[Bo...]]

I’m just going to chime in bc ADs can become an issue when someone’s been on a benzo and I know this first hand bc I am now on mirtazapine and it has been extremely detrimental in my situation. Was forced it for aka 3mo off a very slow taper of K (3yr) and I was doing better at that point than I am now.

its the one med that can cause people issues as mentioned in the Maudsey deprescribing guidelines and on Benzo info coalition website with regards to a benzo being used before during etc.

so I know everyone is different and some people benefitted by getting some sleep from it but some same people when it came time to taper a year layer had a hell of a time coming off. I barely can move much on it and have had bad adverse side effects since beginning but was in a psych ward for aka, so was forced it even though I said it’s making worse.

If you can see how you’re doing at 12-18mo off the benzo and hold out until then I think that might be in your best interest…. But again that’s coming from all I’ve learned about mirt (it’s one of the hardest to come off of bc it acts in 4 diff receptors- opioid, serotonin, adrenaline, and histamine).

Ashton retracted her AD stuff I believe later down the road so just know other meds really can affect this journey making it harder bc all meds have some kind of discontinuation situation. Some have it easier some harder. Just know this before getting in the spot where you’re stuck bc I am now stuck. 
 

again everyone has to do whatever they need to and I tried lots of options when my aka was life threatening. All one time and made it worse. Then got put in psych ward bc family thought that was safest for me (never ever ever go to one bc they are all barbaric and very few medical professionals understand aka and make things worse bc they think you’re bipolar, having mania or high anxiety)…. I wish people would have kept me safe and got me to 6-7mo off and I’d likely have had the aka calm to a manageable level, and then leave. More meds perpetuate the issue usually.

All this to say, do your research in every group or ask coaches, people who’ve taken the meds…. And if you do start mirt for sleep, start at 1mg and slowly work up. Drs don’t even get them involved bc they will say 1mg is nothing. Mirt is very strong and low doses are more sedation , something again most drs don’t understand. Lots of people have taken 1-3mg for sleep to bridge the gap and then off quickly.

something about mirt and benzos is what many have told me and I’m seeing that and it’s even in the Maudsley deprescribing Manuel so there is something to it.

[[Do...]]

4 hours ago, [[j...] said:

sorry to bore people with the AD thing again but I think I'm going to give it a shot on a regular basis as opposed to intermitent mirt for sleep. Of course I'm full of doubt as I think anyone is here, but I have to do something as the depression and all that goes with it is starting to render me incapacitated at times. The obvious question is does it interfear with healing. Thoughts and experiences are welcome.

Hi @[jo...]

Dont believe me, believe Dr. Horrowitz.

 

[[Su...]]

There is no evidence AD’s “slow healing” and would like to know who started this myth? Dr. Heather Ashton herself suggested antidepressants might be helpful for some with severe depression.  I was extremely symptomatic with mental symptoms early in my taper and depression was so emotionally painful that I tried an antidepressant, but I couldn’t tolerate the side effects because my nervous system was too severely compromised from withdrawing too fast.  I’d taken AD’s prior to my taper and had no trouble dealing with their side effects or discontinuing them, for that matter, but this was different, my body and mind felt disconnected from my self.  So instead of adding an AD, I decided to increase my dose a bit and then held my dose until the depression settled down, at which point I resumed my taper at a much slower pace than previously; I made the conscious decision to not cut until I was healed from the previous one which helped me avoid worsening depression.  This was a successful strategy for me and I healed all the way down and while I didn’t have to add an AD, I understand why many people must try one because the depression can be severe.