Our Concerns: The Witt-Doerring Youtube Channel

[[Mi...]]

@[Co...]

You know, I could keep going on and on quoting and explaining as to why specific things you are saying here are just not accurate and also very subjective, but it seems like your mind is already made up.

All I’m asking is that you look at his whole channel with an open mind and take into account my personal experience with the man (as he potentially saved my life and definitely played a MAJOR part in my healing thus far).

He is in my eyes a hero and a truly amazing human being. I promise I’ll leave it there.

[[Co...]]

14 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Experiment on yourself or others. i choose themselves to get a better understanding. it is done with lots other drugs. 

medicines have different affects upon those ill with the condition they are used to treat compared with the general population. I take two medications which are safe for me to take because of my medical conditions. If I did not suffer from those conditions, they would cause me harm and would be even dangerous to me.

[[Co...]]

1 minute ago, [[M...] said:

@[Co...]

You know, I could keep going on and on quoting and explaining as to why specific things you are saying here are just not accurate and also very subjective, but it seems like your mind is already made up.

All I’m asking is that you look at his whole channel with an open mind and take into account my personal experience with the man (as he potentially saved my life and definitely played a MAJOR part in my healing thus far).

He is in my eyes a hero and a truly amazing human being. I promise I’ll leave it there.

I should not have to watch all his videos to find a few cherries. The sample I watched was bad enough. There no chance in hell I that I will work through 270 videos.

[[Le...]]

1 minute ago, [[C...] said:

medicines have different affects upon those ill with the condition they are used to treat compared with the general population. I take two medications which are safe for me to take because of my medical conditions. If I did not suffer from those conditions, they would cause me harm and even dangerous to me.

yea i have heard that one. likely true if you have diabetes or thyroid issues. this situation is a little different. 

[[Mi...]]

Just now, [[C...] said:

I should not have to watch all his videos to find a few cherries. The sample I watched was bad enough. There no chance in hell I that I will work through 270 videos.

Sorry, I don’t think you understood what I was saying. I just meant that you should try and get a glimpse at a decent amount of his content is all, and once again be open minded about things. You don’t have to watch every single one of his videos lol.

[[Co...]]

2 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

Sorry, I don’t think you understood what I was saying. I just meant that you should try and get a glimpse at a decent amount of his content is all, and once again be open minded about things. You don’t have to watch every single one of his videos lol.

We watched, perhaps, two dozen videos. I did not even example all of the problems we discovered.

[[Le...]]

Just now, [[M...] said:

Sorry, I don’t think you understood what I was saying. I just meant that you should try and get a glimpse at a decent amount of his content is all, and once again be open minded about things. You don’t have to watch every single one of his videos lol.

Miracleman I think most people want to discuss the effect of his public presence having no experience with his practice. They have a good reason too. There are troubling aspects and it is worth discussing. Having a personal experience with the clinic or whatever is much different. 

I think it is reasonable and very interesting to discuss though I am a bit unreasonanle at times.  

[[je...]]

2 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

Sorry, I don’t think you understood what I was saying. I just meant that you should try and get a glimpse at a decent amount of his content is all, and once again be open minded about things. You don’t have to watch every single one of his videos lol.

We are asking the same of you. It doesn’t have to be black or white. You can be happy with the care you have received and still acknowledge that there is a problem with what he puts out on social media.

[[Co...]]

21 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

yea i have heard that one. likely true if you have diabetes or thyroid issues. this situation is a little different. 

Not really. For example, it is easy to understand that there are some psychoactive medications which would aggravate some mental health conditions. They would be strongly contraindicated. So, what if a patient suffers from no mental health disorder - can you not conceive that at least some of these medications would have negative effects?

And on a general point: every single medication caries potential risks as well as potential benefits. No one should be placed at unnecessary risk, even if they are doing it to themselves, even if they are a doctor. It is foolhardy to say the least.

[[Le...]]

4 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

Not really. For example, it is easy to understand that there are some psychoactive medications which would aggravate some mental health conditions. They would be strongly contraindicated. So, what if a patient suffers from no mental health disorder - can you not conceive that at least some of these medications would have negative effects?

And on a general point: every single medication caries potential risks as well potential benefits. No one should placed at unnecessary risk, even if they are doing it to themselves, even if they are a doctor. It is foolhardy to say the least.

yea sort of but most of these things are not physical disorders. they are the results of trauma, life experiences etc etc and are being treated as if they are physical disorders. 

there is little to no physical difference between a traumatized or untraumatized person for example. 

Edited June 3 by [Le...]

[[Co...]]

3 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

yea sort of but most of these things are not physical disorders. they are the results of trauma, life experiences etc etc and are being treated as if they are physical disorders. 

But they alter brain function. They should be used only when the brain is in particular states, for which there is evidence for them providing some relief. As problematic as some of the data is for efficacy for many of these medications, it surely must be problematic to use them for inappropriate conditions or where no medical condition exists.

[[Le...]]

14 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

But they alter brain function. They should be used only when the brain is in particular states, for which there is evidence for them providing some relief. As problematic as some of the data is for efficacy for many of these medications, it surely must be problematic to use them for inappropriate conditions or where no medical condition exists.

rarely does a medical condition exist. an emotional one does. one of those harsh videos talked of that beside a million other places. it is worth considering i think. this is by no means every case just more often that not I think. 

I would really like to try stuffing people with good food and running them into the ground at my cottage to see how many I can cure. I bet the success rate would be higher for depression especially if maintainable when returning to their lives. 

kinda off topic again sorry. 

Edited June 3 by [Le...]

[[Co...]]

3 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

rarely does a medical condition exist. an emotional one does. one of those harsh videos talked of that beside a million other places. it is worth considering i think. this is by no means every case just more often that not I think. 

It does not have to be organic. If someone was in a manic state, do you think the doctor would prescribe an amphetamine? If you are in (what I will call) a 'neutral' state, an unnecessary medication could have deleterious effects compared with someone with a condition for which this the medication is normally prescribed.

[[Le...]]

I know what you are saying I just debate the results. Prolonged drug use prevents recovery and growth from everything I have seen and experienced myself. maybe calm panic sure. anything else i am not so sure. 

 

my experience does affect my opinion but I dont think i am totally compromised. 

Edited June 3 by [Le...]

[[Br...]]

35 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

@[Co...]

You know, I could keep going on and on quoting and explaining as to why specific things you are saying here are just not accurate and also very subjective, but it seems like your mind is already made up.

All I’m asking is that you look at his whole channel with an open mind and take into account my personal experience with the man (as he potentially saved my life and definitely played a MAJOR part in my healing thus far).

He is in my eyes a hero and a truly amazing human being. I promise I’ll leave it there.

@[Mi...] I can imagine it feels heartbreaking to feel the way you do about someone who helped you so profoundly and see him criticized.  I'm glad  to hear of your very positive experience with JWD's clinic.  I hope you will come to understand that the focus of criticism here is on YouTube channel's content and presentation; it is not a commentary on the guidance and care provided by JWD or his staff.  As has been said here, our team is very concerned about the impact of  the channel's content on people who are vulnerable and seeking help and we feel strongly that we need to advocate vigorously for the best interest of BB members.  

[[Mi...]]

@[Br...] @[Co...],

I understand. In all honestly, this sort of post is probably going to bring even more people to Josef’s YouTube channel and give him even more of an outreach. Then even more people will watch his videos and most likely find them incredibly helpful. So, in a sense, you’re doing right by how you feel and you’re doing good for the community in that regard as well. So, to that, I say thank you.

Edited June 3 by [Mi...]

[[re...]]

Once again we have to be careful with language. Because when one says "covid denier" that was carte blanch to go into "antivax" then all these things to label and smear people who don't want to be force fed an experimental medical treatment. . And no matter what side of the aisle you are on. Forcing a brand new (not yet long and thoroughly tested for proper results in trials and long term benefit and/or harm outcomes) medical  treatment (pandemic or not) you are opening up serious human rights violations that truly fly in the face the Nuremberg code. I would never crap on someone getting whatever medical treatment them and their doctor wants to give them and it's none of my business.

But I have always said err on the side of caution especially in regards to Benzos/additional psych meds. 

[[re...]]

Several of us were warning people away from the Witt-Doerrings - or at least cautioning people about them - as early as last September.

Clearly, that Witt-Doerring video was very misleading, and it caused a lot of upset and turmoil for many of our members.
More generally, it's been my experience that many a doctor or other "scientist" - especially if they are young and pretty and drawing a large audience largely because of their gleaming smiles and perfect physiques - do seem to grow a bit careless over time when it comes to their preparation, and they let a lot of errors creep into their videos. I won't name names, but many of you have probably encountered such YouTubers already. Not only do they seem to spend more time producing videos than doing science or practicing medicine, but they also get a bit too used to the income they receive from YouTube, for example. They become more YouTuber than doctor. At least that's been my impression. Not all of them are like that. I always found John Campbell, for example, to be pretty well-prepared and on-the-mark with his COVID information, and sometimes pretty bold as well - though he often had to bite his tongue to avoid YouTube censorship, even when he was provably right: about ivermectin, for example, about which he's been totally vindicated by now. So on the one hand, you have to watch out for doctors who morph into sloppy, spoiled YouTubers; and on the other hand, you have to watch out for people who toss around meaningless slurs like "conspiracy theorists", "covid-deniers", "anti-vaxxers" and the like, in order to short-circuit debates that they're likely to lose.

I agree that the Witt-Doerring channel is pretty useless and often harmful, and since BenzoBuddies doesn't really have enough staffing to monitor each and every link to a Witt-Doerring video, I can understand why all their videos might be banned here. After all, BenzoBuddies is not a debating society. Its mission is to support people who are struggling with benzo-withdrawal, even if that means that "free speech" is not always the highest value and the top priority. I'm confident that such a ban will remain the rare exception on this forum - as it always has been in the past.

[[re...]]

With ALL medicine unfortunately there starts to be a risk to benefit ratio of the more and more meds piled on of possible adverse reactions not only between meds, but on the body and/or brain in general. The benefit window starts to really shrink. 

This is what happened to me in the ER/ICU due to my hyponatremia and it's following brain edema swelling, extended seizures, and finally coma. I was given WAY too much stuff (drugs) when all I needed was my sodium level corrected and for some reason according to my medical paperwork timeline they numbers were low and they STILL wouldn't give me at least a low .9 percent bolus bag of sodium choloride. And instead gave me Glucose. This is a high end hospital BTW. 

That is when I  went into a poly pharma nightmare. And I am sure many have went into Poly pharma because of something simple as an Ashton guided taper and it is what bothers me the most. There is so much that needs to be done and I just don't see it even in 2024. 

[[Ma...]]

5 hours ago, [[r...] said:

I am not anti psychiatry (for myself I AM and will never ingest another toxic brain chemical including probably alcohol)  for the poor souls who maybe need it. I don't think we should stigmatize mental illness AT ALL. But at the same time not IMMEDIATELY medicalize it without doing the crucial pillars of not just mental but OVERALL physical health. My critique is more about 15 minute consult............ DRUGS no matter if it is crisis or not. They give these things out for basically any human condition and I just feel other avenues need to be explored (IN IN DEPTH CLINICAL TRIALS) first over medicine that may be more to a person's detriment. 

I think when a DOCTOR prescribes lifestyle changes then the patient will be more likely to engage in them. 

Low screen time

Diet (Keto if possible if medication resistant)

Major aerobic exercise

Getting outside in the sun

Being in the dark when the sun goes down

Deep therapy even if talking it out to friends (I don't think it always has to be with a clinician)

Ridding toxic people of your life

Hi @[re...], I agree with you that psych meds shouldn’t be prescribed for what you call ‘human conditions’ such as grief or being unhappy at work, and unfortunately this happens. But you can’t state it happens in ‘most’ of the cases. Your opinions are the result of your experiences but your experiences, as everybody else’s have been just a part of the whole picture. Also I find the term ‘poor souls’ a bit pejorative or maybe it is because I sm not a native speaker and am misinterpreting. When I say mental illness I mean normal people that happen to have panic attacks out of nowhere, not because they are in withdrawal or being medicated, just because their brains are prone to them. They may be very efficient and satisfied people in every aspect of their lives but they have a condition that may need some medication to be under control. They have probably tried different therapies and a change in lifestyle, but it may not have worked. Medication in these cases is a ‘minor evil’ (translating literally from Spanish) and has to be accepted. And they try to get off their pills but sometimes they can’t, old symptoms come back very soon. They wish it was otherwise and their doctors too but they need their ADs. If they are prescribed benzos long term ,then they have a problem. This is my opinion based on my experience, it’s not a fundamental truth at all.

[[Le...]]

The misinterpretation of what happens on discontinuing benzos being mental illness happens often with ssris too. they also have many long term harms and diminishing effects.   the cycle with this trade never ends.  makes me sad to see how many are tricked.  

 

 

[[Ma...]]

8 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

The misinterpretation of what happens on discontinuing benzos being mental illness happens often with ssris too. they also have many long term harms and diminishing effects.   the cycle with this trade never ends.  makes me sad to see how many are tricked.  

@[Le...], I don’t doubt ADs probably have long term harms and I really hate some side effects that are not very nice and have always been there. Diminishing effects, fortunately hasn’t happened to me yet but I wouldn’t say it would not happen some time. I will have to cope with whatever comes in the future as well as in the present. It is just the best option I have and that’s it! And I haven’t been tricked by the way.

[[Le...]]

26 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

@[Le...], I don’t doubt ADs probably have long term harms and I really hate some side effects that are not very nice and have always been there. Diminishing effects, fortunately hasn’t happened to me yet but I wouldn’t say it would not happen some time. I will have to cope with whatever comes in the future as well as in the present. It is just the best option I have and that’s it! And I haven’t been tricked by the way.

nice to hear how aware you are. i know there arent better options sometimes. Really wish there were. wish everyone was as aware beforehand. I wasnt. 

[[re...]]

Marianita:

But my friend it DOES happen in vast numbers........... the overprescribing epidemic is REAL (at least in America) unfortunately. I am sorry if it seems I was talking down to you or anyone by saying "poor souls"

By poor souls I mean something is "off" with someone in their being. I don't think they are any less and I DEFINITELY don't think they are damaged. Just dysregulated and usually it is only temporary with the proper lifestyle treatment. 

But  these issues can get blown out of proportion once one goes down the medication route for brain problems.   I just feel there is an element of learned helplessness (hence the label or condition they give someone) perpetuated by doctors who could really be trying to get to the root of someone's panic attacks. Panic attacks usually don't just happen. There is something biologically out of balance and it's effect on the brain is enormous. I don't feel one has to be stressed for a panic attack to arise. It could be mold, chemicals in the home, many things. 

I have seen it first hand from my own anecdotal experience to SO MANY on here. And since I have gotten more in the trenches giving phone moral support in groups. I cannot BELIEVE what I am seeing and the stories I am hearing of someone having only ONE panic attack and then being wrote a script just like that. Instead of offering yoga, exercise, inquiring about caffeine/alcohol use, chemicals in the home, etc The doctors really are not doing these simple wellness checks and inquiries one on one with their patients, and I am afraid are painting with real broad brush strokes instead. 

From everything to minor sleep disturbances to back pain, low level lying anxiety, losing a loved one, losing a job. If you took a look at just THIS site. Many many people were given benzo/ssri medications (and the new ones are Gabapentin and Seroquel given out like nonstop) for MINOR issues and not the "chemical imbalance" that so many claim exists and until there are tests for this imbalance before a strong mind altering substance is given I stand firm on my position of lifestyle change FIRST.

And doctors should really do everything in their power to not only learn about the clinical studies of lifestyle change on mental health, but do all they can to institute these things to their patients. If someone is having a sleep disturbance and you give them out an extreme heavy hitter like Seroquel. They could end up with permanent muscle movements and be harmed FOR LIFE. I know of a person I am helping that was given this and it really harmed her BAD and I think it is unnecessary. It just needs to be mitigated more. 

I don't think doctors should even be allowed to be giving this stuff out without FIRST giving extensive endocrine panels, FULL on B vitamin panels (which they rarely give only b12 which is a shame), Vitamin D, Magnesium, Ferritin/Iron, etc many of these blood tests would show deficiencies and these can cause all kinds of nervous system issues.  

And once again WHAT IF these meds do NOT work and "poop out" so to speak and have the opposite effect of what they were intended for on the patient. Well then you are told your "condition" is returning or you are "relapsing" when many times it's simply either from a too fast taper or even a medication adverse reaction. I feel it is the prescriber's duty to safely figure out with the patient TOGETHER on a possibly better plan moving forward than more and more and more drugs on top of an already dysregulated nervous system. 

If someone is in crisis then they may need medical intervention ASAP. I am even an advocate in these extreme circumstances. Don't think for one minute that I don't think true trauma of a mass event is not somehow altering chemicals in the brain. Cause I do believe say someone in war ie. that is seeing catastrophe on a daily basis will have their "chemistry" altered. But even these people usually have way better outcomes with deep therapy for PTSD than through medicine. 

I find from studies that I have done, that many times drugs can CAUSE the thing they were meant to treat. 

I don't know where you live, but here in America there is a drug for EVERYTHING and we have direct to consumer marketing of nonstop drug promotion campaigns. Of..........."feel this way?........ you may have this disease, getting these symptoms?........... you may have this disease then always followed by ASK YOUR DOCTOR IF (fill in drug of choice) IS RIGHT FOR YOU"

It's an epic disaster. And yet our mental health crisis keeps RISING!!!!!!!!!!! Something is off here is all I am saying and I don't feel the medicalizing of mental illness is having the great outcome and the miracle that was promised to in the late 80's-90's with the advent of SSRI meds. 

[[Ca...]]