Our Concerns: The Witt-Doerring Youtube Channel

[[or...]]

6 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Not all doctors who gave these meds were aware of the consequences. I agree. But if you weren’t aware then as a professional then you should have been and certainly not give them until you are aware! Not all doctors or medical professionals are bad apples. I’m NOT saying that at all. Doctors are very much needed all over the world. Most of them take the care of their patients very seriously and is cautious in general to do what’s best. 

Glad to hear this, I too believe we need doctors, and in any profession, you can find someone that has another priority besides the good of others.  We just have to weed them out when, if we recognize them, we can let others know.  Then it's up to the individual to listen, or not, OL

Edited June 3 by [or...]

[[Co...]]

27 minutes ago, [[r...] said:

Regardless of our differences. The bottom line is that BB has helped more people than most doctors and this is good by me. Anything that can help more than it harms is a great resource. 

Rock on!!!!!!!!!!1

[[Le...]]

32 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

What we allow is for members to speak of their own experiences. This is includes detailing failures in their own medical care. What we do not allow is content posted with the purposes of scaring off others from doctors and medicine. This applies to all health, not just mental health. 

So, BB is pro-medicine. But medicine is not always at the standard we would like, and there is plenty of room to discuss things might be improved. But since most of our members rely upon doctors - this should be respected by keeping comments in perspective rather than being ruled by own personal (negative) experiences.

got it. a question I would like to ask then is do you think extreme opposition like josefs will do more good than harm. I believe too many people have an authority bias on these topics and he could help combat that. maybe he doesnt belong here on this site where people dont need challenging but out there in general it seems good to me. 

Edited June 3 by [Le...]

[[pi...]]

I do not have a lot of free time today but I have to comment on the videos and how unprofessional and arrogant they are, and how negatively they would impact our members. 

Our members overall are in a fragile state.  We are not taking care of our community by allowing such videos to be posted or linked to. That is the basis for addressing this issue.  

There is so much wrong with the videos, from the Covid denying to the very inappropriate reference to Nazis and the holocaust. Additionally, self prescribing medication for "test" purposes is illegal, unprofessional and dangerous.  This is only the tip of the iceberg.  There are people who need psychiatric help, including medications. Someone could be put in a dangerous position if they bought into the claims on the videos. 

Modern medicine has done some good work. It isn't perfect and there is a lot of room for improvement.  

I was harmed by being prescribed benzos for an middle ear condition, that later was determined I didn't have. I was harmed by a poorly done and failed first shoulder surgery.  I still need doctors, but I certainly am more proactive these days.  I would never see a doctor who posts videos like JWD, he is a doctor, but his immaturity and cavalier attitude is most harmful. 

 

 

[[or...]]

For me, regarding Mr. Doering, I just feel he's just one of the bullets I've dodged, so far so good. If he helps you than I'm glad.  I doubt we will ever know the numbers on people following him, whether they are helped in the long-run, or harmed, OL

[[WU...]]

5 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

I believe too many people have an authority bias on these topics and he could help combat that.

By setting himself up as an authority !

 

[[Le...]]

4 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

By setting himself up as an authority !

exactly. without it noone would listen. combat authority with authority is the only way. 

[[WU...]]

1 minute ago, [[L...] said:

combat authority with authority is the only way

Not really the way I would go about it, combat authority with widespread accurate knowledge. Otherwise we end up with people on pedestals or behaving like medical rock stars with adoring fans and I don't think we want that.

[[Le...]]

8 minutes ago, [[p...] said:

I do not have a lot of free time today but I have to comment on the videos and how unprofessional and arrogant they are, and how negatively they would impact our members. 

Our members overall are in a fragile state.  We are not taking care of our community by allowing such videos to be posted or linked to. That is the basis for addressing this issue.  

There is so much wrong with the videos, from the Covid denying to the very inappropriate reference to Nazis and the holocaust. Additionally, self prescribing medication for "test" purposes is illegal, unprofessional and dangerous.  This is only the tip of the iceberg.  There are people who need psychiatric help, including medications. Someone could be put in a dangerous position if they bought into the claims on the videos. 

Modern medicine has done some good work. It isn't perfect and there is a lot of room for improvement.  

I was harmed by being prescribed benzos for an middle ear condition, that later was determined I didn't have. I was harmed by a poorly done and failed first shoulder surgery.  I still need doctors, but I certainly am more proactive these days.  I would never see a doctor who posts videos like JWD, he is a doctor, but his immaturity and cavalier attitude is most harmful. 

I am some fraction jewish and not a covid denier. I am not overly insulted. those parts certainly detract from the message some but the opinions on pharmaceuticals are separate. we have no real numbers either way for the good or bad or any real ability to weight the good or bad. I just want more caution and testing. without it what happens now is basically human testing. the results are poor. 

[[Le...]]

1 minute ago, [[W...] said:

Not really the way I would go about it, combat authority with widespread accurate knowledge. Otherwise we end up with people on pedestals or behaving like medical rock stars with adoring fans and I don't think we want that.

people look to authority figures for that knowledge. it can only come from there. 

[[Co...]]

5 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

got it. a question I would like to ask then is do you think extreme opposition like josefs will do more good than harm. I believe too many people have an authority bias on these topics and he could help combat that. maybe he doesnt belong here on this site where people dont need challenging but out there in general it seems good to me. 

Hmmm. As I stated in my opening post, Josef and Marissa Witt-Doerring appear to view themselves as mavericks, and seem to be contrarians by nature. I have little trust in their motivations. I am going purely off their Youtube channel content; I find it profoundly unimpressive. So them taking a different view to the conventional wisdom (if you like), is not something which fills me with confidence.

There are ways to criticise systems and institutions while retaining credibility. Think of someone like Dr Healy - he is highly critical while remaining credible within the profession. The Witt-Doerrings operate completely independently and upload clickbait to Youtube.

[[Co...]]

13 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

By setting himself up as an authority !

Yes.

[[Le...]]

2 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

Hmmm. As I stated in my opening post, Josef and Marissa Witt-Doerring appear to view themselves as mavericks, and seem to be contrarians by nature. I have little trust in their motivations. I am going purely off their Youtube channel content; I find it profoundly unimpressive. So them taking a different view to the conventional wisdom (if you like), is not something which fills me with confidence.

There are ways to criticise systems and institutions while retaining credibility. Think of someone like Dr Healy - he is highly critical while remaining credible within the profession. The Witt-Doerrings operate completely independently and upload clickbait to Youtube.

how much publicity and impact does healy have in comparison?

[[Co...]]

2 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

how much publicity and impact does healy have in comparison?

Much, MUCH more!

[[WU...]]

5 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

Think of someone like Dr Healy - he is highly critical while remaining credible within the profession.

Oh blimey I just typed in Dr Healy on YT and the first thing that came up was an interview with Witt Doering!

[[Co...]]

Just now, [[W...] said:

Oh blimey I just typed in Dr Healy on YT and the first thing that came up was an interview with Witt Doering!

Unfortunate, that. Yes, I was aware that he was interviewed. I would hope (and expect) that he is not properly aware of the content appearing there.

[[Le...]]

1 minute ago, [[W...] said:

Oh blimey I just typed in Dr Healy on YT and the first thing that came up was an interview with Witt Doering!

fun. superhero team up. 

[[Le...]]

6 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

Oh blimey I just typed in Dr Healy on YT and the first thing that came up was an interview with Witt Doering!

I enjoy them both and think there is a benefit to both their approaches while acknowledging my experiences have biased me exceptionally. the professor approach and a more theatrical one. I am for anything at all that gets attention and publicity. 

[[WU...]]

4 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

fun. superhero team up. 

What was I saying just now about medical rock stars. You sound like a JDW groupie!

 

[[Co...]]

Just now, [[L...] said:

I enjoy them both and think there is a benefit to both their approaches while acknowledging my experiences have biased me exceptionally. the professor approach and a more theatrical one. I am for anything at all that gets attention and publicity. 

Even if the publicity is negative? Even if causes harm to some desperate people visiting his channel? Even if results in more professionals and the general public dismissing the problems experienced by our members and the concerns of people with mental health problems?

Outside of a particular bubble, this sort of thing is hated by other people.

[[Le...]]

1 minute ago, [[W...] said:

What was I saying just now about medical rock stars. You sound like a JDW groupie!

yea was kinda intentional. i am not sure if he will detract from the cause actually but think any publicity is good when there is so little. 

[[Co...]]

Just now, [[W...] said:

What was I saying just now about medical rock stars. You sound like a JDW groupie!

And is all part and parcel of shock tactics, clickbait, and feeding fears. Some people desire certainty above all else. And those who promise certainty are stars.

[[Le...]]

1 minute ago, [[C...] said:

Even if the publicity is negative? Even if causes harm to some desperate people visiting his channel? Even if results in more professionals and the general public dismissing the problems experienced by our members and the concerns of people with mental health problems?

Outside of a particular bubble, this sort of thing is hated by other people.

too many assumptions. anything that gets people involved at this point is likely good. 

[[Co...]]

Just now, [[L...] said:

yea was kinda intentional. i am not sure if he will detract from the cause actually but think any publicity is good when there is so little. 

There is plenty of publicity, but the majority of it is bad. For example, do you think Scientology's position on psychiatry is help or hinderance?

[[Le...]]

1 minute ago, [[C...] said:

And is all part and parcel of shock tactics, clickbait, and feeding fears. Some people desire certainty above all else. And those who promise certainty are stars.

yes and it is very effective. i will admit there are possible harms and possible good. we cant really judge how the scales will measure things in the end. reminds me of something.