Our Concerns: The Witt-Doerring Youtube Channel

[[Co...]]

2 hours ago, [[L...] said:

when did you recognize this in yourself? epiphany here?   

Well. I never claim any particular expertise. And this community is deliberately organised as a peer support group. And the moderators and admins will tell you that we are here to keep this place running smoothly and sensibly - none of us are experts. At least we recognise this.

[[...]]

Can someone comment on his ability as a physician successfully tapering his patients off these meds? I am asking this as a 'real' question, not taking sides here. 

[[Le...]]

10 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Ok I wasn’t going to say anything but just observe this thread BUT I have to agree with Colin and the admins on this forum. Let me please explain my main reason why….

We know that people taking psych drugs/ benzos/ zdrugs have a temporary decrease in cognitive skills ( but can be for quite some time). Therefore, having someone come across a channel of a “ professional benzo/ psych med wise doctor” telling them that they are their own problem and with some mental work can just quit their meds is BAT CHIT CRAZY! Some people need their mental medications to survive! So let’s say, somebody listens to Josef then just quit taking their meds…they will go into a mental crisis or possibly lose their life! If someone decides to taper off their meds, then that should be done in a certain fashion as well as the person needs to be professionally monitored. Yes there are people who have been medically done wrong with these drugs. I’m one of them! I had 3 close family members die within a very short timeframe and my sleep was affected. I was grieving for God’s sake..one of those people passed away was my mother! I wasn’t depressed or mentally disturbed. I should have been referred to a grief counselor as well as let time pass and advised to take something like Benadryl or chamomile tea to help me get to sleep. But instead, I was FALSELY told that my heart was in danger from lack of sleep and to take Ambien every night. I was told they were safe, non habit forming and can simply just be stopped at anytime without any ill effects. THAT WAS A HUGE LIE! Never warned about anything negative except I might sleepwalk a little until I get used to it. I trusted that my physician had my best interest in mind and knew what he was giving me. Every time about every 2 years, I’d mention stopping it and was talked out of it! As a result, my vestibular system was greatly injured rendering me bedridden for a long time, unable to walk/ sit up, take a bath, cook for my kid or even ride 2 minutes in a car to go to the store or to a doctor! I’m two weeks shy of 4 years and STILL can’t tolerate being in a car for longer than a couple of minutes. This put my entire life in a 4 walled room for years! Can’t walk, can’t go anywhere! I lost my marriage, my child and my quality of life as a human being. Gradually I’m getting my life back. Thank God! So, this subject of medical mistreatment is a SERIOUS problem! Everyone has opinions but looking at the overall problem…the opinion can cost someone their life! Do I believe Colin and staff here are in with the pharmacy companies or any such like…ABSOLUTELY NOT! Do I think they’re doing what’s best for BB…YES! Warn us and let us decide for ourselves. This forum has proven to be the reason so many people were successful in getting off their meds and now living healthy happy lives. There isn’t a person alive that can convince me that Colin has some ill type underhanded agenda in creating this thread…NOPE! He doesn’t! How would he benefit from doing that? BB please step back and look at what the staff on this forum is really saying. They’re simply giving a warning after consulting with not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 well respected professionals who agreed! When is warning someone ever a bad thing? 
 

I like your post. it calmed me a bit. not that I agree with it all but i was over reacting and being gaslighted by an attitude by a person in a position of authority trying to shut down people because he didnt like the responses he was getting. your response was much more reasonable. thanks. 

Edited June 3 by [Le...]

[[re...]]

Ladyden:

Please be careful with this in bold:

We know that people taking psych drugs/ benzos/ zdrugs have a temporary decrease in cognitive skills ( but can be for quite some time). Therefore, having someone come across a channel of a “ professional benzo/ psych med wise doctor” telling them that they are their own problem and with some mental work can just quit their meds is BAT CHIT CRAZY! Some people need their mental medications to survive! So let’s say, somebody listens to Josef then just quit taking their meds…they will go into a mental crisis or possibly lose their life! If someone decides to taper off their meds, then that should be done in a certain fashion as well as the person needs to be professionally monitored. 

 

If people are really listening to Josef they would NEVER just stop taking their meds. He always  tells people to be weary of rapid tapering/Cold turkies and almost always (unless there is an extreme paradoxical thing going on) advocates for EXTREME slow tapering and works with his patients very diligently and carefully from the experiences I have read from people that have used him.

He never says people should do this. And he is more versed in slow tapering than anyone currently practicing as a doctor I would have to say.  

[[WU...]]

3 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

You seek certainty in a world where there is none

Very true when I was a lot younger, all wide-eyed and bushy-tailed or another description, extremely naive !

The medics don't offer certainty, they offer drugs which may or may not help but I hadn't bargained on the drugs causing more harm than my original problem !  Apologies as this has nothing to do with JWD, except to say I seriously doubt he can offer anything with certainty either

[[Co...]]

[[La...]]

4 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

I like your post. it calmed me a bit. not that I agree with it all but i was over reacting and being gaslighted by an attitude by a person in a position of authority trying to shut down people because he didnt like the responses he was getting. your response was much more reasonable. thanks. 

Sometimes we have to take a minute to step back and gather our emotions in a more calming manner. Everyone is guilty of letting emotions get the best of us. It’s ok that you didn’t agree with all I said. You are most definitely entitled to what you will or won’t agree with. But my overall intention was to “ bring a calm “ to this thread because at the end of the day their intention was to simply warn the people here to be careful. That I can appreciate! 
you’re very welcome and glad I can help. 👍🏼

[[Co...]]

6 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

I like your post. it calmed me a bit. not that I agree with it all but i was over reacting and being gaslighted by an attitude by a person in a position of authority trying to shut down people because he didnt like the responses he was getting. your response was much more reasonable. thanks. 

I actually laughed at that. Anyone here who has been around benzo forums the past 10-15 years will tell you just how different BB has operated to all those forums which are now closed. Many of them would have suspended your posting privileges for daring to disagree. Some would have even banned your account. You have no idea how easy going BB is compared to all those now defunct benzo forums.

[[...]]

5 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

There are some members who make use of the Witt-Doerring's services. I expect one of them will be able to advise you.

But at the end of the day, devising taper is not complicated. The difficulty can be in finding a doctor who is willing to let the patient taper off at their own rate.

And helping manage unpleasant symptoms

[[or...]]

12 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Ok I wasn’t going to say anything but just observe this thread BUT I have to agree with Colin and the admins on this forum. Let me please explain my main reason why….

We know that people taking psych drugs/ benzos/ zdrugs have a temporary decrease in cognitive skills ( but can be for quite some time). Therefore, having someone come across a channel of a “ professional benzo/ psych med wise doctor” telling them that they are their own problem and with some mental work can just quit their meds is BAT CHIT CRAZY! Some people need their mental medications to survive! So let’s say, somebody listens to Josef then just quit taking their meds…they will go into a mental crisis or possibly lose their life! If someone decides to taper off their meds, then that should be done in a certain fashion as well as the person needs to be professionally monitored. Yes there are people who have been medically done wrong with these drugs. I’m one of them! I had 3 close family members die within a very short timeframe and my sleep was affected. I was grieving for God’s sake..one of those people passed away was my mother! I wasn’t depressed or mentally disturbed. I should have been referred to a grief counselor as well as let time pass and advised to take something like Benadryl or chamomile tea to help me get to sleep. But instead, I was FALSELY told that my heart was in danger from lack of sleep and to take Ambien every night. I was told they were safe, non habit forming and can simply just be stopped at anytime without any ill effects. THAT WAS A HUGE LIE! Never warned about anything negative except I might sleepwalk a little until I get used to it. I trusted that my physician had my best interest in mind and knew what he was giving me. Every time about every 2 years, I’d mention stopping it and was talked out of it! As a result, my vestibular system was greatly injured rendering me bedridden for a long time, unable to walk/ sit up, take a bath, cook for my kid or even ride 2 minutes in a car to go to the store or to a doctor! I’m two weeks shy of 4 years and STILL can’t tolerate being in a car for longer than a couple of minutes. This put my entire life in a 4 walled room for years! Can’t walk, can’t go anywhere! I lost my marriage, my child and my quality of life as a human being. Gradually I’m getting my life back. Thank God! So, this subject of medical mistreatment is a SERIOUS problem! Everyone has opinions but looking at the overall problem…the opinion can cost someone their life! Do I believe Colin and staff here are in with the pharmacy companies or any such like…ABSOLUTELY NOT! Do I think they’re doing what’s best for BB…YES! Warn us and let us decide for ourselves. This forum has proven to be the reason so many people were successful in getting off their meds and now living healthy happy lives. There isn’t a person alive that can convince me that Colin has some ill type underhanded agenda in creating this thread…NOPE! He doesn’t! How would he benefit from doing that? BB please step back and look at what the staff on this forum is really saying. They’re simply giving a warning after consulting with not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 well respected professionals who agreed! When is warning someone ever a bad thing? 
 

Well said Lady Den,

I have received excellent guidance here and it was always made clear to me that this was others experiences only.  My own would be different, but similar in ways.  I appreciate being warned about something, but I usually look into it.  I already experienced Doering, and realized that there was no reason to listen further since I was gaining so much ground just working with peers on this site.

Yes, my MD helped when I finally showed him how I was tapering off the benzo.  He'd already worried when I would not take the typical med for t2 diabetes, but then, just 3 months later, he saw that my nutritional changes solved the issue.  I am not cured of T2, but I brought my numbers down with no meds.

I think he knew then I was not someone willing to keep taking a benzo, and he respected my choice to do a micro-taper.  Especially when he saw a previous taper he suggested sent me into bad wd sxs, and one seizure/TIA.  No certain diagnosis made.  None of the doctors mentioned maybe could be too fast of a taper from Benzo, but I knew, oregonlady

[[Le...]]

well thanks for not being as abusive of your authority. 

2 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

I actually laughed at that. Anyone here who has been around benzo forums the past 10-15 years will tell you just how different BB has operated to all those forums which are now closed. Many of them would have suspended your posting privileges for daring to disagree. Some would have even banned your account. You have no idea how easy going BB is compared to all those now defunct benzo forums.

You give me a bit of a chuckle too. 

[[Co...]]

[[Co...]]

22 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Ok I wasn’t going to say anything but just observe this thread BUT I have to agree with Colin and the admins on this forum. Let me please explain my main reason why….

We know that people taking psych drugs/ benzos/ zdrugs have a temporary decrease in cognitive skills ( but can be for quite some time). Therefore, having someone come across a channel of a “ professional benzo/ psych med wise doctor” telling them that they are their own problem and with some mental work can just quit their meds is BAT CHIT CRAZY! Some people need their mental medications to survive! So let’s say, somebody listens to Josef then just quit taking their meds…they will go into a mental crisis or possibly lose their life! If someone decides to taper off their meds, then that should be done in a certain fashion as well as the person needs to be professionally monitored. Yes there are people who have been medically done wrong with these drugs. I’m one of them! I had 3 close family members die within a very short timeframe and my sleep was affected. I was grieving for God’s sake..one of those people passed away was my mother! I wasn’t depressed or mentally disturbed. I should have been referred to a grief counselor as well as let time pass and advised to take something like Benadryl or chamomile tea to help me get to sleep. But instead, I was FALSELY told that my heart was in danger from lack of sleep and to take Ambien every night. I was told they were safe, non habit forming and can simply just be stopped at anytime without any ill effects. THAT WAS A HUGE LIE! Never warned about anything negative except I might sleepwalk a little until I get used to it. I trusted that my physician had my best interest in mind and knew what he was giving me. Every time about every 2 years, I’d mention stopping it and was talked out of it! As a result, my vestibular system was greatly injured rendering me bedridden for a long time, unable to walk/ sit up, take a bath, cook for my kid or even ride 2 minutes in a car to go to the store or to a doctor! I’m two weeks shy of 4 years and STILL can’t tolerate being in a car for longer than a couple of minutes. This put my entire life in a 4 walled room for years! Can’t walk, can’t go anywhere! I lost my marriage, my child and my quality of life as a human being. Gradually I’m getting my life back. Thank God! So, this subject of medical mistreatment is a SERIOUS problem! Everyone has opinions but looking at the overall problem…the opinion can cost someone their life! Do I believe Colin and staff here are in with the pharmacy companies or any such like…ABSOLUTELY NOT! Do I think they’re doing what’s best for BB…YES! Warn us and let us decide for ourselves. This forum has proven to be the reason so many people were successful in getting off their meds and now living healthy happy lives. There isn’t a person alive that can convince me that Colin has some ill type underhanded agenda in creating this thread…NOPE! He doesn’t! How would he benefit from doing that? BB please step back and look at what the staff on this forum is really saying. They’re simply giving a warning after consulting with not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 well respected professionals who agreed! When is warning someone ever a bad thing? 
 

Very well said, @[La...]. Thank you for posting this.

[[re...]]

I am not anti psychiatry (for myself I AM and will never ingest another toxic brain chemical including probably alcohol)  for the poor souls who maybe need it. I don't think we should stigmatize mental illness AT ALL. But at the same time not IMMEDIATELY medicalize it without doing the crucial pillars of not just mental but OVERALL physical health. My critique is more about 15 minute consult............ DRUGS no matter if it is crisis or not. They give these things out for basically any human condition and I just feel other avenues need to be explored (IN IN DEPTH CLINICAL TRIALS) first over medicine that may be more to a person's detriment. 

I think when a DOCTOR prescribes lifestyle changes then the patient will be more likely to engage in them. 

Low screen time

Diet (Keto if possible if medication resistant)

Major aerobic exercise

Getting outside in the sun

Being in the dark when the sun goes down

Deep therapy even if talking it out to friends (I don't think it always has to be with a clinician)

Ridding toxic people of your life

 

 

Edited June 3 by [re...]

[[Co...]]

12 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

Very true when I was a lot younger, all wide-eyed and bushy-tailed or another description, extremely naive !

The medics don't offer certainty, they offer drugs which may or may not help but I hadn't bargained on the drugs causing more harm than my original problem !  Apologies as this has nothing to do with JWD, except to say I seriously doubt he can offer anything with certainty either

A saying I like - which I think is American in origin - perfect is the enemy of good.

I think that can apply to a lot of what I am trying to get across here.

[[La...]]

Just now, [[C...] said:

Very well said, @[La...]. Thank you for posting this.

You’re welcome. It’s just the truth! We can’t turn a blind eye to the outstanding numbers of people who would have never needed this forum in the first place IF their trusted medical professionals would have not been pill happy. And when it comes to withdrawing from these meds, it’s dangerous if not done properly. Most medical professionals don’t have a clue on how to taper off safely. Many of them get pissed if you show them the Ashton manual on how to do so. You all came to the attention of someone that might cause someone or many someones a life threatening situation. You gave a very well detailed professional warning. There’s nothing wrong with that! I appreciate it! And I hope the others will too. So Thank you and the staff ! For me, this isn’t about taking sides. 

[[Le...]]

3 hours ago, [[C...] said:

I think most of us here would have preferred to have never been prescribed benzodiazepines. But this is not the issue. What is at issue is that a Youtube channel which is heavily slanted against psychiatry is being promoted at BB and elsewhere within the wider benzodiazepine withdrawal community. And as I outlined in my opening post, the four medical professionals we consulted (who are all very sympathetic to BB and what it does) were appalled by the content.

The admins and I too were all appalled by the content we discover - and, again, it was only from a small sample of the videos available at the channel. We also know many members are very unhappy with many aspects of how JWD operates.

BB is not a space where anything goes so long as it increases engagement. We have seen how that has devastated other forums, where the result is content catering to lowest common denominator. We have standards, and we will stick to then.

Is BB slanted toward psychiatry then?  Isnt there a place for scepticism and those that dont believe how you do on this site?  

 

well i guess i havent been banned so a bit I guess. 

Edited June 3 by [Le...]

[[or...]]

10 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

Any reasonable doctor should be able to help with managing symptoms. I know, I know. Far from all are very sympathetic.

Sometimes the patient has to be reasonable as well. 

[[Co...]]

Just now, [[L...] said:

Is BB slanted toward psychiatry then?  Isnt there a place for scepticism and those that dont believe how you do on this site?  

What we allow is for members to speak of their own experiences. This is includes detailing failures in their own medical care. What we do not allow is content posted with the purposes of scaring off others from doctors and medicine. This applies to all health, not just mental health. 

So, BB is pro-medicine. But medicine is not always at the standard we would like, and there is plenty of room to discuss things might be improved. But since most of our members rely upon doctors - this should be respected by keeping comments in perspective rather than being ruled by own personal (negative) experiences.

[[Co...]]

2 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

Sometimes the patient has to be reasonable as well. 

Yes. Doctor are not magicians. They are human too. But a good doctor should understand that a patient in distress might not be acting themselves and they should cut them some slack. The doctor-patient relationship can be fractious. And when it is, it is not always the doctor's fault.

[[re...]]

Regardless of our differences. The bottom line is that BB has helped more people than most doctors and this is good by me. Anything that can help more than it harms is a great resource. 

Rock on!!!!!!!!!!1

[[La...]]

3 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Is BB slanted toward psychiatry then?  Isnt there a place for scepticism and those that dont believe how you do on this site?  

well i guess i havent been banned so a bit I guess. 

No you haven’t been banned. That says a lot because you would have been on other forums simply because you disagreed. So may I be viewed as coming to you in a friendly manner when I say please keep calm and pick your battles wisely. You are heard. You were allowed to do so freely. I didn’t agree with all you said either, although I see your angle. There can be opinions made while discussing things without disrespect or starting things to turn ugly. I’m not accusing you of doing this. It’s just a general statement for everyone to be mindful of what is posted to avoid trouble. Sometimes it’s best to agree to disagree and move on. 

[[or...]]

6 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

You’re welcome. It’s just the truth! We can’t turn a blind eye to the outstanding numbers of people who would have never needed this forum in the first place IF their trusted medical professionals would have not been pill happy. And when it comes to withdrawing from these meds, it’s dangerous if not done properly. Most medical professionals don’t have a clue on how to taper off safely. Many of them get pissed if you show them the Ashton manual on how to do so. You all came to the attention of someone that might cause someone or many someones a life threatening situation. You gave a very well detailed professional warning. There’s nothing wrong with that! I appreciate it! And I hope the others will too. So Thank you and the staff ! For me, this isn’t about taking sides. 

It's only fair to tell just a little story of when I was diagnosed with T2 Diabetes.  He did recommend the Metformin first to be honest. I said no, that I wanted to try it with a diet-change I'd read about, Ketogenics.

I reversed my numbers back into the normal range.  When I went to my doctor next time, and he had of course seen my A1c's, he was so happy, that happened for me.  2 of his nurses were just so happy and said how many times, people want the pill because they don't have any knowledge of other ways, it's the quick fix. It took me a year to know for sure my nutrition was treating my T2.  Stickin with it 4 almost 4 years, because it works.

I know Doctors and Nurses of all kinds get very burnt out with folks that cannot, or will not take responsibility.  Oh I know doctors and nurses don't really have the right to be discouraged, not like us right.

I'm just saying that it's wrong to stereo-type any profession, race, or group of any sort. Sadly, with us humans, one apple spoils the whole barrel. Extremism. 

[[pi...]]

2 hours ago, [[L...] said:

Oooh the depression video. Harsh and honest. love it. 

This comment is not only frightening but cruel and disrespectful to those who are in need of medications for severe depression. I do know of a few people who need these drugs to function, to survive. No, it is not me. Clearly you haven't seen someone suffer greatly with depression, otherwise you would not find "love" in this video. This lack of empathy for others is sad. 

[[La...]]

1 minute ago, [[o...] said:

It's only fair to tell just a little story of when I was diagnosed with T2 Diabetes.  He did recommend the Metformin first to be honest. I said no, that I wanted to try it with a diet-change I'd read about, Ketogenics.

I reversed my numbers back into the normal range.  When I went to my doctor next time, and he had of course seen my A1c's, he was so happy, that happened for me.  2 of his nurses were just so happy and said how many times, people want the pill because they don't have any knowledge of other ways, it's the quick fix. It took me a year to know for sure my nutrition was treating my T2.  Stickin with it 4 almost 4 years, because it works.

I know Doctors and Nurses of all kinds get very burnt out with folks that cannot, or will not take responsibility.  Oh I know doctors and nurses don't really have the right to be discouraged, not like us right.

I'm just saying that it's wrong to stereo-type any profession, race, or group of any sort. Sadly, with us humans, one apple spoils the whole barrel. Extremism. 

Not all doctors who gave these meds were aware of the consequences. I agree. But if you weren’t aware then as a professional then you should have been and certainly not give them until you are aware! Not all doctors or medical professionals are bad apples. I’m NOT saying that at all. Doctors are very much needed all over the world. Most of them take the care of their patients very seriously and is cautious in general to do what’s best.