Our Concerns: The Witt-Doerring Youtube Channel

[[Le...]]

There are so many poor arguments here from the one that started this thread, to a bunch of my own, and almost every one since. people are getting defensive. why not get rid of the thread and just dictate terms if that is what the end result will be anyhow. it not like reason is going to sway either side to the other and both sides are over reacting and mostly wrong. 

[[Sh...]]

9 hours ago, [[C...] said:

Come on. Its inclusion was meant to be persuasive (of something), but without actually saying anything.

I say this with respect- Next time a thread like this is open best to close it immediately so no one comments. It feels like no other possible opinions are allowed so why allow comments? 
I am not trying to start an argument I sure don’t need the stress. I guess my point was that we are adults and we know the difference between quackery and something helpful and we can decide. 
and hey even if we believe the quackery if it helps US who gives a shit. 
Nothing really helps us but time. So no need to watch any videos once you accept that. 
 

[[Le...]]

1 hour ago, [[M...] said:

I don’t know how to 🙇‍♀️. The title is:

Is Benzo Withdrawal Injury Permanent?

Um it is an important question and maybe not considered correctly here. 

The damage is to some degree or another permanent but most minds can adapt enough to still function. Enough injury and it is more difficult. 

 

If someone stated this about drugs considered street drugs or even alcohol then few would disagree. 

there is a strong bias I see often here. a fairly obvious one too. mostly by those defensive about the industry and continuing the use of other drugs  

it isnt something we need people ruminating on and for all we know it is damage equal to a few years of really bad living but debating if there is permanent harm seems silly to me. 

Edited June 4 by [Le...]

[[Co...]]

1 hour ago, [[M...] said:

JWD has a 30 second video stating that protracted withdrawal can be permanent. For love of all mankind. He even goes so far to day the FDA label states damage can be permanent-which is a factual lie.

1 hour ago, [[M...] said:

I don’t know how to 🙇‍♀️. The title is:

Is Benzo Withdrawal Injury Permanent?

I'm posting this video on @[Ma...]'s behalf.

[[Li...]]

1 hour ago, [[M...] said:

JWD has a 30 second video stating that protracted withdrawal can be permanent. 

I’ve watched the video twice.  At no point does he state that benzo withdrawal injury can be permanent.  

[[Ma...]]

That’s not the 1 I was referring to-my mistake.

I’ll find it…

[[Co...]]

7 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

I’ve watched the video twice.  At no point does he state that benzo withdrawal injury can be permanent.  

Actually, although I have seen that video, I was thinking of another when @[Ma...] posted about it. I'll have to disagree with you - he does imply that it can be permanent. But as he presents it there, I don't have a problem with how he presents the matter.

I'll have a dig around to see if I can come up the video I recalled. It was video where speculation was presented more as fact.

[[Ma...]]

It is titled:

Permanent Benzo Withdrawal?!

It’s a “Shorts”, previewing what Collin posted for me.

[[Le...]]

14 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

I’ve watched the video twice.  At no point does he state that benzo withdrawal injury can be permanent.  

i hadnt watch it as few do references. now that i have the precious comment is even funnier. he basically rehashes stuff i have read from ashton. 

there is a defensive and unreasonable group here banding together because they have strong and a bit unreasonable reactions. 

i also find it funny people who have survived this having doubts that they have been injured. you have managed to recover and function but the injury is there. 

Edited June 4 by [Le...]

[[Co...]]

7 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

It is titled:

Permanent Benzo Withdrawal?!

It’s a “Shorts”, previewing what Collin posted for me.

Apologies, @[Ma...]. I assumed I had the right one from the title you gave me.

I believe this is the video the video you were referencing:

 

[[Ma...]]

It is. Thank you,

[[Co...]]

5 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

i hadnt watch it as few do references. now that i have the precious comment is even funnier. he basically rehashes stuff i have read from ashton. 

there is a defensive and unreasonable group here banding together because they have strong and a bit unreasonable reactions. 

The video I posted for @[Ma...] was incorrect.

[[Le...]]

the new video says the same as the other in a slightly more alarming way. 

[[Co...]]

8 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

the new video says the same as the other in a slightly more alarming way. 

Well, a bit more slightly. But it is still not the video I recalled.

[[Le...]]

maybe at some point we can just agree that lots of these videos are too alarming for many members here and we would like to limit them on the site?  seems fair to me. Noone is going to disagree with trying to help other members. 

[[Do...]]

On 03/06/2024 at 09:24, [[C...] said:

In no particular order, our five main areas of concern:

1. Anti-psychiatry, psych-medication scaremongering, and pill-shaming across much/most of the content (videos a, b, c, d, e)
2. Promotion of conspiracy theories, medical disinformation and quack cures (video e)
3. Offensive content and terminology (videos d, e)
4. Apparent violations of ethical or professional standards (videos a, d)
5. Serious and serial errors in judgment (videos a, b, c, d, e)

This is so wrong:

1. Being anti-psychiatry sohuld be a must, mostly cause of psychiatrists are gulty for that we are going through and 99% of them are not are allies but are enemies. To scare people of psych meds is totally right when proven to be dangerous and over prescribed for normal issues just to make cash.

2. They are not conspiracy theories if they are true so if true no missinformation either. Just like with covid vaccines, there was people asking to punish those who believed those conspiracy theories that finally happened to be all true.

3. Offensive content and terminology for who? it doesnt offend me. Who says what is offensive?

4. violations of ethical or proffesional standards?? whose standards? criminal psychiatrists?

5. Errors in judments were the bunch of psychiatrists who told me that benzos were safe and i could have them like candy with no fear of dependency. Those are the ones to blame not JWD.

So i fully agree @[re...] that this is not doing a favor to this community and it is a total lack of fredom of opinion to try to cancel JWD for going against the stablishment.

[[Mi...]]

@[Co...] @[Ma...],

I’m sorry, I feel I have to chime in again.

In both videos he is stating that withdrawal can be painful and last for a significant amount of time for some people, but that all people recover. He doesn’t come out and fully say all people recover fully because he always has people in his practice going through the motions.

Therefore, even though he always sees people recovering fully, or full enough to live a beautiful and normal life (along with the coaches he works with), he just always uses the word “majority” because he’s trying to be as accurate as possible.

Again, this goes back to critically thinking about the things he’s saying. Not just hearing one word in a video and labeling it a certain way.

Please try to understand, with these videos posted here he has given me (along with thousands of others) a voice and lots of confidence that the most important and amazing time is coming in life.

Side note: One of his best videos is the second date night he does with Marissa that is insanely positive on this subject. I don’t know if I can post it here, so I won’t.

[[Co...]]

2 hours ago, [[S...] said:

I say this with respect- Next time a thread like this is open best to close it immediately so no one comments. It feels like no other possible opinions are allowed so why allow comments? 
I am not trying to start an argument I sure don’t need the stress. I guess my point was that we are adults and we know the difference between quackery and something helpful and we can decide. 
and hey even if we believe the quackery if it helps US who gives a shit. 
Nothing really helps us but time. So no need to watch any videos once you accept that. 
 

Hi @[Sh...]

I wasn't trying to give you a hard time. But your comment was clearly meant to imply (it practically stated it) that BB is secretly operated by 'big pharma'. But when I called you on it, you dismissed it as nothing comment.

As for your second point, I think it would have been very unfair of us to simply state our position on this matter and not allow any discussion. I accept (and even stated in my opening post) that we are highly unlikely to change our position on this. But at the very least, discussion allows us to better explain our position, for members to vent (if this what they would like to do), post their appreciation, or ask for clarifications. And all of those things have occurred.

[[Le...]]

I think this thread may be doing what I thought we would want to avoid. Exposing people to things that trouble them and dont help them. right or wrong aside. 

[[Co...]]

12 minutes ago, [[D...] said:

This is so wrong:

1. Being anti-psychiatry sohuld be a must, mostly cause of psychiatrists are gulty for that we are going through and 99% of them are not are allies but are enemies. To scare people of psych meds is totally right when proven to be dangerous and over prescribed for normal issues just to make cash.

2. They are not conspiracy theories if they are true so if true no missinformation either. Just like with covid vaccines, there was people asking to punish those who believed those conspiracy theories that finally happened to be all true.

3. Offensive content and terminology for who? it doesnt offend me. Who says what is offensive?

4. violations of ethical or proffesional standards?? whose standards? criminal psychiatrists?

5. Errors in judments were the bunch of psychiatrists who told me that benzos were safe and i could have them like candy with no fear of dependency. Those are the ones to blame not JWD.

So i fully agree @[re...] that this is not doing a favor to this community and it is a total lack of fredom of opinion to try to cancel JWD for going against the stablishment.

I have to strongly disagree with your position, @[Do...]. And your position is completely at odds with our mission and very longstanding policies. Your post actually examples the problem with the content of JWD's videos, as they promote positions at odds with BB's core values. BB should be a safe place for those who rely upon psychiatric services. Of course, you can have your own opinions, but looking for support with benzodiazepine use and withdrawal should not equate with being antipsychiatry. They do not (or should not) go hand in hand.

[[Co...]]

1 minute ago, [[L...] said:

I think this thread may be doing what I thought we would want to avoid. Exposing people to things that trouble them and dont help them. right or wrong aside. 

BB has never run away from difficult topics. Something pretty big comes up every few years - and this might be one of them. But we take the view that it is better to have a dialogue with members rather just lay down the law and forbid any discussion.

[[Le...]]

1 minute ago, [[C...] said:

I have to strongly disagree with your position, @[Do...]. And your position is completely at odds with our mission and very longstanding policies. Your post actually examples the problem with the content of JWD's videos, as they promote positions at odds with BB's core values. BB should be a safe place for those who rely upon psychiatric services. Of course, you can have your own opinions, but looking for support with benzodiazepines use and withdrawal should not equate with being antipsychiatry. They do not (or should not) go hand in hand.

I think after the experiences of the majority here they are going to be very sceptical of the trade. 

 

I have an epileptic brother. he would have a seizure every night without medication. there is obviously a place for it.  likely few and far between though. 

[[Do...]]

On 03/06/2024 at 15:15, [[C...] said:

But the whole tone of his channel is antipsychiatry

Well if anyone who is aware of what modern psychiatry is doing to pacients is not antipsychiatrity, even being a psychiatry himself, that person has a problem.

[[Le...]]

1 minute ago, [[C...] said:

BB has never run away from difficult topics. Something pretty big comes up every few years - and this might be one of them. But we take the view that it is better to have a dialogue with members rather just lay down the law and forbid any discussion.

just seems odd to involve people in something when at the start a big part of the argument was harms from exposure. 

I am very attracted to argument but not for the sake of argument.  there is no impartial judge here to declare a winner. 

most people would be open to doing a lot to not upset others here. 

[[Co...]]

12 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

@[Co...] @[Ma...],

I’m sorry, I feel I have to chime in again.

In both videos he is stating that withdrawal can be painful and last for a significant amount of time for some people, but that all people recover. He doesn’t come out and fully say all people recover fully because he always has people in his practice going through the motions.

As I stated, neither video is what I had in mind when @[Ma...] mentioned this. It is even possible that I combining recollections from than one video. I'll see if I can track it down.

12 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

Therefore, even though he always sees people recovering fully, or full enough to live a beautiful and normal life (along with the coaches he works with), he just always uses the word “majority” because he’s trying to be as accurate as possible.

Again, this goes back to critically thinking about the things he’s saying. Not just hearing one word in a video and labeling it a certain way.

But some (a lot) of the video content is likely detrimental to the health of some of our members. It is not about the wording in one or two videos - there is a lot of problematic content, and of more than one type.

12 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

Please try to understand, with these videos posted here he has given me (along with thousands of others) a voice and lots of confidence that the most important and amazing time is coming in life.

Side note: One of his best videos is the second date night he does with Marissa that is insanely positive on this subject. I don’t know if I can post it here, so I won’t.

Of course, you can watch his videos for yourself. But we are do not wish to see his videos to be normally (certainly not routinely) posted here.

As I indicated earlier, the posting of video to make a specific point (in a thread such at this) is acceptable. Post your video and make your point.