Did anyone get this alcohol hangover effect once they got below 1mg valium (.88)

[[re...]]

Giulia:

Well i am so low at this point a switch to a compound would be much to iffy for me this low. Many get issues with switching as it is. I have been at least somewhat functional with this water taper and I might as well ride it til the end. 

[[Ch...]]

Just now, [[r...] said:

Plus this is my second time down this taper road. So I really want to be careful as there is a possibility of kindling I think. And what led me here for the second time was a botched medical procedure that led me into a long status epilepticus then a coma in the hospital and there is all that extra baggage so I have to be extra careful with brain excitement due to jumping too soon. 

There isn't any judgment from me; I was just wondering.

The .88mg of Valium is certainly sub-therapeutic.

At these low doses (the "jumping" ones), I think people often confuse "grossly uncomfortable" with "dangerous." You are out of the danger zone...

I am aware of the work of Horowitz. This is what Ashton said about being where you're at:

"Stopping the last few milligrams is often viewed as particularly difficult. This is mainly due to fear of how you will cope without any drug at all...In any case, the 1mg or 0.5mg diazepam per day which you are taking at the end of your (tapering) schedule is having little effect apart from keeping the dependence going. Do not be tempted to spin out the withdrawal to a ridiculously slow rate towards the end..."

Best wishes to you.

 

[[re...]]

Oh yeah Chester for sure. It is doing NOTHING at this point. 

I am most likely in acute right now and it is definitely tolerable although as you say very uncomfortable. And with my past seizures I  feel i must be more cautious than the regular anxiety user that has never had a seizure.  I think why not just give myself another 30-60 days and do this without any regrets. I have had enough patience thus far and haven't up dosed or anything. I do believe Mr. Horowitz recommends .30 jump. I think his stuff is a bit more modernized with his receptor occupancy theory so I will try and go a bit longer.  

Thank you for all the observations though. Appreciate it

[[re...]]

I wish I could just find more "under 1 mg" experiences on here. I have not seen many members except OregonKatz, CMZ, and FirstTaper talk about their last little bit. Not many others really mention their last 1 mg on down. 

[[Ch...]]

1 minute ago, [[r...] said:

I do believe Mr. Horowitz recommends .30 jump. I think his stuff is a bit more modernized with his receptor occupancy theory

Well, it is only "theory" and Ashton safely tapered many, many people using her method. Horowitz has not made Ashton irrelevant

 

[[Ch...]]

3 minutes ago, [[r...] said:

I wish I could just find more "under 1 mg" experiences on here. I have not seen many members except OregonKatz, CMZ, and FirstTaper talk about their last little bit. Not many others really mention their last 1 mg on down. 

That could be because people have jumped at 1mg or .5mg? I jumped at 1mg after tapering from 60mg. It was...just another cut.

[[re...]]

No no I understand. Ashton IS still the go to tried and true for this mess. But I do think Horowitz is adding to these taper schedules and asks WHY do these taper schedules work and has a bit more science study in his theories. I dig the receptor theory and once again for people like ME that have had seizures this is a big thing. I think once you have had any history of seizures than bets are all off for the normal dependance user and their tapering methods. 

I can't find lots of people on here that are either epileptics or have had seizures. 

Edited April 20 by [re...]

[[Ch...]]

5 minutes ago, [[r...] said:

No no I understand. Ashton IS still the go to tried and true for this mess. But I do think Horowitz is adding to these taper schedules and asks WHY do these taper schedules work and has a bit more science study in his theories. I dig the receptor theory and once again for people like ME that have had seizures this is a big thing. I think once you have had any history of seizures than bets are all off for the normal dependance user and their tapering methods. 

I can't find lots of people on here that are either epileptics or have had seizures. 

At .88mg of Valium (I am not talking here about any other benzo), I am more worried about unnecessarily dragging out its aggravation to the brain than about finally stopping it and letting the brain start to recover.

Keep us updated on how you are doing.

[[re...]]

Chester i love how you say your jump felt like just another cut. This gives me hope. 

[[re...]]

Chester:

You make a very valid point about aggravating the brain at these low doses. Hence why I made this post about feeling drunk and hungover. I even  wonder if the half lives are not even that much at this low dose.

But I feel as long as I don't hold and keep going forward with courage (I have sped up my daily taper a bit) steady. I may have a real better chance with that last dose. 

[[Ma...]]

3 hours ago, [[r...] said:

I love the coffee and I don't think it is as dangerous as these shills like Matt Walker/Andrew Huberman claim it is. 

Couldn’t agree more.  The verdict on coffee is in: it’s extremely good for you.  It is loaded with antioxidants and decreases the risk of at least 7 types of cancer, has positive effects on the brain and lowers the risk of dementia, decreases risk of liver disease and cirrhosis, is good (for most people) for cardiac health, increases athletic performance, on and on.  I get it that some people may be more sensitive to it when they are tapering but if I see one more person saying you must cut out coffee if you’re trying to get off benzos I think I’m going to pull my hair out.  I drink 3-4 cups a day. No issues. 

[[Ca...]]

That's interesting about the coffee. I am afraid to drink any caffeine but would love a cup of English Breakfast tea and I was a big latte drinker pre taper. I have the hangover effect all day and it's hard to stay out of bed although I don't sleep. I am just really exhausted. I always feel better after ten pm so end up staying up way too late like two am.  This is quite the journey!!

[[re...]]

Yes I think the demonization of coffee, but NOT psych meds from these "experts" is a sad thing. Coffee has been around forever. Psych meds??????? Well not so much. I would agree that take it slow with the coffee if you haven't had it in awhile and work your way up. But it has been great benefits for BDNF and many of the other things that Mattwahoo says. 

If I was you Carol Jean I'd give it a shot, but don't drink too much. Why deprive yourself of something you used to love. It might surprise you with how it makes you feel and it just may for the better.

I know I certainly feel much better after my morning coffee and most of my symptoms actually go away for awhile like the tinnitus when I drink it. It is odd, but it kind of helps. 

[Guest [Do...]]

9 hours ago, [[r...] said:

Yes Katrina I am just so curious about the low dose and how it could become like a booze hangover for some of us. 

I am not floored yet, but getting real sick of feeling this way every morning and all day. Then night comes and I feel at least somewhat ok. 

I know I shouldn't just JUMP at this dose. But it is like my body is really rejecting it at this point. 

I just don't see lots of low dose (1mg and under) taper experiences on here. It is like people either leave or maybe they just can't take it and go back up and decide to stay.

Like even on the  3.2.1 3 mg and under thread not people seem to get down to under 1 mg and are still talking about it. I would like to read other members experiences. 

Hi there,

I am at 1.85mg diazepam twice a day and i cant tell about whats going on beyond 3,2,1 mg but i do feel something similar already; i start to feel better during evenings and feel much better, even symptom free at night before my pre-bed dose, that dose does not affect me much and i sleep quite well but around 2-3 hours before my daytime dose i feel quite bad (muscle twitches, headaches, etc) but after i take the dose i feel worse for a few hours, i get low blood presure and feel lightheadness, over sedated, fatigued, brain fog and sometines even some anxiety that start to fade in the evenings and disapear at night and so it goes every day.

No idea what is wrong with my daytime dose, if its side effects from the valium or a weird WD thing.

Edited April 21 by Guest

[[Ch...]]

1 minute ago, [[D...] said:

1.85mg diazepam twice a day

Have you considered dosing just once a day? Valium does not require repeat daily dosing. I have known many people who felt better once they went to just once-daily dosing of Valium.

[Guest [Do...]]

1 minute ago, [[C...] said:

Have you considered dosing just once a day? Valium does not require repeat daily dosing. I have known many people who felt better once they went to just once-daily dosing of Valium.

Hi Chester,

Yes that is what is on my mind right now. Either that or start tapering only on the daytime dose instead of doing one day each.

My concerns are, in the first option, if removing my daytime dose and adding it to the night one would be:

1) too much dose at night as the one i am having now seems to be the one working well

2) if i would get interdose WD as i used to when i was having lorazepam only single dosed (i know is not the same half life duration).

And for the second option, despite ashton manual says remove one dose at a time untill zero and then go for the next one, i talked to my pharmacist and we both think it would mess a lot gaba receptors if, for instance, i lower my dose daytime to 1mg or 0.5mg but at night i keep feeding it with twice or 4 times that dose.

Opinions and experiences will be highly appreciated.

 

[[Ch...]]

2 minutes ago, [[D...] said:

Hi Chester,

Yes that is what is on my mind right now. Either that or start tapering only on the daytime dose instead of doing one day each.

My concerns are, in the first option, if removing my daytime dose and adding it to the night one would be:

1) too much dose at night as the one i am having now seems to be the one working well

2) if i would get interdose WD as i used to when i was having lorazepam only single dosed (i know is not the same half life duration).

And for the second option, despite ashton manual says remove one dose at a time untill zero and then go for the next one, i talked to my pharmacist and we both think it would mess a lot gaba receptors if, for instance, i lower my dose daytime to 1mg or 0.5mg but at night i keep feeding it with twice or 4 times that dose.

Opinions and experiences will be highly appreciated.

Just FYI - I used the Ashton method to taper from 60mg Valium.

You're not going to "mess (up) a lot (of) gaba resceptors" by slowly eliminating one of your doses until you are just dosing once daily. The long half-life of Valium and the slowness with which you will make cuts will suffice to cover this. That's one of the advantages of using Valium - it allows for this kind of flexibility and is pretty forgiving of imprecision.

Contrary to what your pharmacist apparently believes, many, many people have followed the Ashton method (which is what I am suggesting), ended up on a single daily dose of Valium, and done just fine.

It's up to you.

[[Ch...]]

11 minutes ago, [[D...] said:

Hi Chester,

Yes that is what is on my mind right now. Either that or start tapering only on the daytime dose instead of doing one day each.

My concerns are, in the first option, if removing my daytime dose and adding it to the night one would be:

1) too much dose at night as the one i am having now seems to be the one working well

2) if i would get interdose WD as i used to when i was having lorazepam only single dosed (i know is not the same half life duration).

And for the second option, despite ashton manual says remove one dose at a time untill zero and then go for the next one, i talked to my pharmacist and we both think it would mess a lot gaba receptors if, for instance, i lower my dose daytime to 1mg or 0.5mg but at night i keep feeding it with twice or 4 times that dose.

Opinions and experiences will be highly appreciated.

I forgot to emphasize: You are not going to get interdose withdrawal with Valium as you did with Lorazepam. Valium's half-life (how long it stays in your system) is much longer and should very much shield you from this. Your pharmacist surely knows this.

[Guest [Do...]]

3 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

"mess (up) a lot (of) gaba resceptors"

Sorry, english is not my first language, in fact i do believe i only use it here.

[[Ch...]]

Just now, [[D...] said:

Sorry, english is not my first language, in fact i do believe i only use it here.

No, no! I wasn't criticizing your English! Not at all! You do great with it! I just wanted to clarify it in my response so that I wouldn't miscommunicate anything! You're doing great!!!!

[Guest [Do...]]

13 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

I forgot to emphasize: You are not going to get interdose withdrawal with Valium as you did with Lorazepam. Valium's half-life (how long it stays in your system) is much longer and should very much shield you from this. Your pharmacist surely knows this.

Well, i think i will try for a week or so, that would lower my daytime dose for about 0.10mg and i can see how i feel, it wont harm me or unbalance me much and i can see how it goes. Isnt this a big experiment after all?

unfortunately, i cant find a psychiatrist who can help me with this or at least knows how to solve this problem other than fast taper in 3 weeks.

Thanks Chester.

Edited April 21 by Guest

[[Ca...]]

Dolvian -- how do you measure a tenth of a mg? I am on 14 mgs valium down from 40 and 1.5 clonapin two years ago. Ashton recommends that at 8 mgs to take it all at night. I find it to be a very depressing and fatiguing drug. I split mine into two doses and have been on a hold for about four weeks or more. I have to get back on the horse. I am tapering now at 1 mg monthly. The first year it was 1.38 monthly. I've considered tapering 5 or ten percent instead but I don't want to be doing this forever.

Dolvian that's one learned professional!!!! The only drug that you can rapidly taper -- with a benzo -- is alcohol. The opiates even should not be a rapid taper. 

I'll be interested to see how you feel with that cut. 

[[Ma...]]

10 hours ago, [[C...] said:

Contrary to what your pharmacist apparently believes, many, many people have followed the Ashton method (which is what I am suggesting), ended up on a single daily dose of Valium, and done just fine.

I think in Ashton’s original study, about 90% got off of benzos successfully using her schedule.  I think a lot of people obviously need to go slower (many of whom are here including myself) but it’s still useful info. 

[[re...]]

Dolvian:

I am complete agreement with Chester on the once daily dosing. All I think will happen as you acclimate to it is you may get a bit sleepier for awhile, but that is all. I highly doubt you will have to worry about withdrawal symptoms. When I first started taking the 5 mg I had to split it because it was too sedating but then when I got down to around 4mg I just started the one dose without too many issues. There might of been a bit of an adaptation period, but nothing bad at all and I  am VERY sensitive to this crap so you should be good to go with the once a  day dosing. 

[[re...]]

My biggest thing at this point is about the half life at this low dose. Is it even relevant? It seems to have an effect of wearing off very quickly. And the reason why I posted this. I am so so curious how half lives are calculated as you get so low (under 1mg)