0.5 mg Klonopin for sleep x 17 years

[[Er...]]

I'd like to get off of this; however, after learning more about the withdrawal effects and potential prolonged consequences, I am scared to try. I don't have any problems with taking the klonopin as prescribed most nights. Occasionally I still have insomnia and require another 0.25 mg (or rarely 0.5 mg.) I tried splitting the pill and taking 3/4 of a pill last night and was miserable, took the other 1/4 at 2 am and slept a total of 3.5 hrs. I now realize that this was too drastic of a reduction. I have a new primary care MD (my previous retired), take no other medications and expressed to him that I'd like to get off of the medication. Now I'm not sure if going off of this dose (which I believe is considered pretty low) is going to cause more harm than good, especially considering the number of years I've been taking iot for sleep. I am in my early 50s, I work and have a school aged daughter. I don't want to ruin my life and hers by going into horrible withdrawal and some of the stories are very frightening. My reason for wanting to go off of the medication is largely bc I don't want to be dependent on any medication, Dr., pharmacy, etc. As the 30 day supply gets low, it is stressful getting to the pharmacy in time, getting refills etc. However, I'm scared there could be some unexpected circumstance preventing me from getting my Rx someday and then I'd have to go cold turkey and really suffer.

In a nutshell, what's the most realistic way to get off of the 0.5 mg tablet without obvious access to a liquid formulation or compounding pharmacy? I live in a semi rural area. The shaving idea sounds the most convenient but would I really need to go buy a scale? Is there step by step information available about how to shave tiny amonts off of the pills for a slow taper?  Thank you!!

[[Er...]]

It seems like aiming for an approximate reduction of 10% by shaving the pill is a good place to start?

I normally have 1 drink per night. Should I avoid all alcohol as well?

After a bad first night of attempting to taper (last night I reduced by 25% and I now realize that was too much), should I wait before trying again?  Thank you

[[Br...]]

Hello @[Er...] - welcome to BenzoBuddies!  I think aiming for a 10% reduction is a good place to start.   We typically suggest tapering with cuts of no more than 5-10% every 10-14 days or longer.  We've found the best approach is to allow your taper to be guided by your symptoms and make adjustments if symptoms are problematic.  This can mean slowing down between cuts and/or making smaller cuts.  

Many of our members us a jeweler's scale like this one to help with accuracy during tapering: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012TDNAM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You'll find a lot of good information here to help you with the details of using a scale.

If you had a bad night after making a 25% cut I would suggest you wait at least a week before attempting to taper again.  This will give your system some time to stabilize first.  

As far as alcohol, have you tried to quit alcohol before?  

[[Er...]]

I only have 1 beer a night. I've never felt the need to stop that evening routine. However, if it will negatively affect sleep then I will. Anything to increase my sleep quality at this point.  Do you think just 1 beer would lessen sleep quality? I really want to maximize my chances of sleeping!

Last night I shaved tiny tiny flakes (probably under 5%) off the klonopin and only had a few sips of beer rather than a whole one and slept well. I was also tired from the bad night before. I'm going to continue along this route and see how it goes. I know it will get harder and there will be bad nights though. Even if I manage slowly to kick the physical dependence on the klonopin, I fear sleep will be an issue for me and I am petrified of that. 

[[Er...]]

Thank you for the link to the scale!

[[Br...]]

7 hours ago, [[E...] said:

I only have 1 beer a night. I've never felt the need to stop that evening routine. However, if it will negatively affect sleep then I will. Anything to increase my sleep quality at this point.  Do you think just 1 beer would lessen sleep quality? I really want to maximize my chances of sleeping!

Last night I shaved tiny tiny flakes (probably under 5%) off the klonopin and only had a few sips of beer rather than a whole one and slept well. I was also tired from the bad night before. I'm going to continue along this route and see how it goes. I know it will get harder and there will be bad nights though. Even if I manage slowly to kick the physical dependence on the klonopin, I fear sleep will be an issue for me and I am petrified of that. 

Hello @[Er...] - We generally advise against drinking alcohol while tapering - it can complicate your recovery because it acts on the same brain receptors as benzodiazepines. 

I understand your fear of struggling with insomnia as a result of quitting Klonopin. I believe your best approach to keeping withdrawal symptoms, including insomnia, to a minimum will be to taper off very gradually. This is absolutely the best way we know of to remain as functional as possible during your taper.  

You will find a lot of discussions about coping with insomnia without taking benzos.  I suggest you look at posts on the Insomnia, Depression & Anxiety forum: https://benzobuddies.org/forum/123-insomnia-depression-anxiety/. I also suggest you go to the Success Stories forum and do a search using the term Insomnia. https://benzobuddies.org/forum/44-success-stories/ .  It's important to remember withdrawal symptoms, as challenging as they are, are temporary and will fade with time.  You will see accounts by members who struggled with insomnia and whose sleep returned to normal once they recovered from benzos.

 

[[An...]]

Hi @[Er...], welcome to BB.

You said>>>

Quote

 However, I'm scared there could be some unexpected circumstance preventing me from getting my Rx someday and then I'd have to go cold turkey and really suffer.

This has always been one of my biggest fears. What if the prescribing doctor who has been prescribing to you for decades retires or dies? Where I am from, most new younger PCPs will refuse to Rx you a benzo short-term or long-term. I have been seeing my current doc for over 30 years. He is old school. He knows my medical history and has no problem prescribing me benzos or helping me to get off them. He is neutral when it comes to benzodiazepines. If this doctor ever retires or dies however and I am forced to find another doctor, the new doc may or may not prescribe despite my medical history with the former doctor. For me, this is a moot point now because I have become tolerant and sick while taking the drug, thus my primary reason for wanting off the drug along with all the secondary reasons you stated after 3 decades of being on them.

 I personally don't think the one beer a night or a few sips is harmful but many BBs feel it is probably best to abstain until you have recovered from the benzo detox. For micro-tapering, I personally don't like the water titration. I prefer using a scale and pill shaving.

[[Er...]]

Well this is exactly my situation. My Dr retired. I went to the pharmacy shortly after his official retirement to get my Rx refilled and they told me that since he retired all of his Rxs for his patients were immediately cancelled by the pharmacy.  So I called the office and the new Dr gave me a limited supply. Then they required me (just 3 days ago) to see the new PCP in order for him to continue with my Klonapin. I had to take a urine drug test and honestly this is why I'm now coming to the point of really wanting to get away from this. Also, what if there is some natural disaster and the pharmacy is closed (also happened to me here recently!) I had to drive all over and make calls to get the Rx sent to a different pharmacy, etc. I don't want to be dependent on all of these things/people anymore, even though I am not having trouble with the Klonopin itself, yet. 

When I told him that I'd like to taper, his suggestion was to just skip one night a week, then two and so on. Terrible advice! I can't imagine just skipping a night. I'd be completely useless and miserable the next day. He knew nothing about any of what I'm reading about here. 

Any replacement Dr would need to continue however because of the danger of making someone quit cold turkey. I believe making someone quit benzos (especially a long term user) cold turkey would constitute malpractice.

[[Er...]]

I've been reading a lot of posts. Currently I am not having trouble w the 0.5 mg of Klonopin that I take for sleep. I'd rather not be dependent but honestly these posts are so petrifying. My mother is 77 and also takes 0.5 for sleep and plans to stay on it forever bc of her age. I'd love for someone to tell me more reasons why I should embark on what sounds like a long, miserable process. I think I need more motivation or I could just keep putting it off. and cave every time I don't sleep. I'm 52 w a mentally demanding job and a child at home. I'm afraid the withdrawl could hurt me more than the benzo. How bad (mentally) is it to take my dose (or less if I got it to 0.25 mg) for good? I'm healthy and currently fully functional in my life and months to years of being non functional sounds impossible.

[[An...]]

Hi Erica,

Your post is a tough call. You are not tolerant or having any issues taking the Klonopin currently. You have a FT job that you have to keep and you are fully functional. Some ppl are able to work while withdrawing. Some like myself become completely dysfunctional and unable to work. Unlike your current situation, I had become tolerant. Had this never happened to me, I'd probably still be taking the drug and working. How much longer do you plan to work before you retire? This may not be the right time in your life to attempt w/d IMO. Working while withdrawing is possible but it is going to be a real challenge. Are you able to function the same only taking .25 mgs. Lower is always better when it comes to benzos.

You said>>>

Quote

 I went to the pharmacy shortly after his official retirement to get my Rx refilled and they told me that since he retired all of his Rxs for his patients were immediately cancelled by the pharmacy. 

Wow, I did not know they do this if a doctor retires or dies. Thanks for sharing. This kinda thing is very scary and could potentially put you in a CT situation.

[[An...]]

Erica said>>>>

Quote

When I told him that I'd like to taper, his suggestion was to just skip one night a week, then two and so on. Terrible advice! I can't imagine just skipping a night. I'd be completely useless and miserable the next day. He knew nothing about any of what I'm reading about here. 

I agree 100% with what you say here. This is horrible taper advice. If you do this, you will suffer beyond your wildest imagination IMO.

[[Er...]]

Maybe I should make my goal to get to 0.25 mg for now and see how that goes? That would be something at least.  I could slowly try to get to that. I'm just starting to shave small edges off but could aim for 1/2 of a pill over time. From what I'm gathering, aiming for a complete withdrawl could be a bad idea right now. Being unable to work is not an option and I also don't want to be nonfunctional. If the Klonopin was problematic for me that would be different. It's more just inconvenient and then there's the fear of losing access someday. That's my main worry (look what's happening w people who take Adderall for example)...that and developing tolerance. I really thought that 0.5 was a low dose and didn't realize that even tapering off of that dose could be so disruptive... for so long. Ugh. 

[[Er...]]

Would you mind sharing how the withdrawl has resulted in you feeling nonfunctional? I'm so sorry that you are going through this. Horrible and terrifying to hear for someone taking benzos for almost 20 years. For me, it's worrying at night that caused me to start. I was put on in the midst of a hard personal time and I've always worked (and have 3 kids of differing ages so I had young kids to take care of back then too). It saved me back then really as not sleeping has it's own dangers and wasn't an option. No other sleeping medication worked (without giving me a horrible hangover feeling the next day).

[[An...]]

3 hours ago, [[E...] said:

Maybe I should make my goal to get to 0.25 mg for now and see how that goes? That would be something at least.  I could slowly try to get to that. I'm just starting to shave small edges off but could aim for 1/2 of a pill over time. From what I'm gathering, aiming for a complete withdrawl could be a bad idea right now. Being unable to work is not an option and I also don't want to be nonfunctional. If the Klonopin was problematic for me that would be different. It's more just inconvenient and then there's the fear of losing access someday. That's my main worry (look what's happening w people who take Adderall for example)...that and developing tolerance. I really thought that 0.5 was a low dose and didn't realize that even tapering off of that dose could be so disruptive... for so long. Ugh. 

Yes Erica, this is exactly what I would do if I was in your shoes. I would try to very slowly get down to .25 if you can and then stay put for a while. The losing access is a very valid concern but my biggest issue with these drugs over the years has been tolerance where the drug literally stops working and forces you into tolerance w/d. This is where you can become extremely sick.

.5 mgs of Klonopin is equivalent to 10 mgs of Valium. Klonopin is a very potent benzodiazepine. I took only .5 mgs of Klonopin for 13 years, became tolerant and literally thought I was going to die. Therefore, your concern of possibly becoming tolerant one day is also a valid concern. By starting to plan now, you are IMO going to save yourself from a lot of possible future pain and suffering.

[[An...]]

Hey Erica,

How much sleep were you getting (approx.) when you went on the klonopin 17 years ago? Perhaps, the stressors you had going on in your life back then are not present today and you may be able to sleep w/o the drug. If you decide to withdraw however, it must be done very slowly and carefully. A slow controlled taper will probably still disrupt your sleep some but leave you functional since you are not currently having any tolerance issues with the drug.

 

[[Er...]]

I am really glad that I am finally learning more about these drugs and thank you for enlightening me! I really did not know how powerful Klonopin is. I was under the impression that 0.5 mg is the lowest dose possible, etc. But just bc it's the lowest dose pill that they make doesn't mean it's not potent.  When you say that you thought you were going to die, that horrible and something I'd really like to avoid. I don't know much at all about the problems that can go along with developing tolerance. 

I'm a bit of a worrier so even though the acute stress (I was going through a divorce) that I had going on back then when I started the klonopin is long gone, I still can have a tendency to ruminate, esp at night. I need to learn new strategies to cope with just being a human in 2023. Stressful times in general. I've cut back my hours at work to lower my stress and I am just starting to try to establish a regular exercise routine. I've never been much of a meditator but some people swear by meditation. 

Thank you for your helpful feedback. I appreciate it.

[[me...]]

Hi I'm in tolerance with 1mgat night I'm ,69years old I'm worried. That I'm too old to do this but I feel ill on them anyway?