Hoping for windows

[[Gr...]]

Windows, we are all waiting for you

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by [Gr...]

[[mi...]]

@Grace2023 people with windows aren't on here. I don't come on here when I'm feeling good, I go live. How many healthy people do you see in the walk in clinic? This is a virtual walk in clinic for benzo sufferers. I had an uneventful taper for 18 months and never once came on here. I hit a wall and I'm here when I'm symptomatic, when I get windows I leave. When you start feeling legitimately good you will likely disappear like most. Some stay, most leave. I've been on other medical sites for issues I've had, and when the issues left, I never went back. Don't look for healthy people here, they are out being normal.

Also, you just reinstated in the last week... You went from no drug, to Valium, to Xanax. Your brain needs to figure things out and settle down. It was shocked a few months ago when you quit everything. Give it time... It doesn't just answer to our beckoned call and respond to our 180s. It gets angry and has to sort itself out and it can take time. Im still trying to stabilize from some hits on my system 3-4 months ago and I have barely been tapering and am still on the drug and am barely getting windows. You came completely off it, your brain is confused and your body is reacting. You're not going to get any measurable response until you decide on a dose/drug/stopping/staying, etc and stick with it for some period of time so the brain and receptors know what you are even asking it to do. Windows might be hard to come by with knee jerk reactions.

Also, I see you constantly comparing yourself to others' stories trying to project your their situation onto yours. It's irrelevant. My uncle is in his 60s and he's started and stopped long term K multiple times with no problems. Others take it for a week and are injured for years. My sister CT'd 1mg Ativan, reinstated four months later and was fine, tapered off in a year and walked off with no acute. It's all a crapshoot. Age may play a factor but there are more factors than you or I will ever know going on and you are going to make yourself mad trying to see what box you fit into when honestly what some other person your age or with similar symptoms to you may have a completely different response than you. My wife always tells me, Mike, this is your story and it's going to happen the way it's supposed to happen for you regardless of anyone else's story. This isn't easy, but it's the truth. Im not trying to come across blunt, and trust me I get benzo panic more than anyone here, but you need to understand none of this is overnight except for the few lucky and even then it's not overnight. Just my thoughts.

Edited October 28, 2023 by [mi...]

[[Gr...]]

@[mi...]  I didn't go from Valium to Xanax. I tried 2 days of Valium and 2 of Xanax.  I'm sorry you feel it's not common to look for windows here. Lucky you have had windows and have been able to not be here. I haven't had any, if they even exist. There are others who look and ask, too. Check topics and do a search. We all want a glimmer of hope. We are all here asking what works for others, asking questions, sharing. Isn't that what a forum is about? Sharing and discussing?  There are people here who a not symptomatic and not moderators. They are here because they've been in our place and want to help and offer kind words. One day or year or century if I am ever "healed" I may do the same just because it was a place that gave me some hope. I am new to all of this. I wasn't on the med for years and years, decades, or a lifetime. I wasn't on many different meds, or on and off and on and off. So, I am very inexperienced with this and it has truly frightened the life out of me knowing that people are still suffering for a long time.  I was hopeful my acute phase was going to be short lived.  I don't know what stage I am in. Honestly, I don't know enough about the stages, and the rest so what would I know anyway.  I'm not familiar with the lingo, cut, hold, etc. I don't know the ins and outs. I don't know the right questions to ask. Maybe I don't ask them correctly because I don't know much about it.

Do I compare myself to others?  How?  I ask about others and see if I can relate. I can't compare, I'm not them, but I am human like they are. Everyone is different in the way this goes as I have learned. I've done some searches to see what worked for others and I asked some of them. I don't think that's any different than anyone else asking about what they have going on and if others are having the same thing. I gather ideas and information from what is going on with others and put it together, to get a bigger picture. Maybe I can take a chance on something that worked for the majority of those people. That would be my choice. There are many here who ask of others and I don't see that as them comparing themselves to them even if they both agree the same thing is going on.  I am a person who keeps searching. Maybe I don't get matching pieces, but I try. I try to figure a way if I can make it better.  I am not hurting anyone doing that. I have already beaten myself up about this situation because I feel I've compromised my health. I don't want to beaten up by anyone else.

Edited October 29, 2023 by [Gr...]

[[An...]]

Grace said>>>>

Quote

It's uphill for all of us. I see varied stories reflecting smooth withdrawal, but most with long and painstaking withdrawal.

Grace, all my prior attempts at benzo w/d were "long and painful". I think because I did not taper correctly. Things are different this time. I am making the 10% reductions every 3 weeks + plus I am taking Lexapro to soften the blow. I will make another cut tomorrow. Surprisingly this time, I am having a very smooth w/d unlike all my other past attempts, which makes me more optimistic than ever.

[[Ch...]]

@[An...] what is your dosage for lexapro and how is it helping you in your tapering 

[[Gr...]]

@[An...] I am so very, very happy that's working for you for all the years you have been dedicated. You really stuck it out. You've been a kind buddy to me.  I am maybe in a boat you were at first, not as dreadful, but early enough for a second chance? Is it the V or Lexapro you feel is helping you the best? 

You say you are "having a very smooth w/d unlike all my other past attempts"  Does that mean past as in way back, or the cuts you are doing?

i keep asking you, it was 1 or 2 months before you started V?  Reason I ask is just for an idea about it. 

**Did you start V first before Lexapro?

Edited October 29, 2023 by [Gr...]
addition

[[An...]]

2 hours ago, [[C...] said:

@[An...] what is your dosage for lexapro and how is it helping you in your tapering 

Hi Chantal,

I started on 10 mgs of Lexapro. When I initially started the Lexapro, there was a spike in SXs (burning, anxiety) for about a week with no noticeable positive therapeutic effects. Week 2, all negative effects from the Lexapro vanished but no positive therapeutic effects. Week 3, slight but noticeable improvement in anxiety and muscle tension. Week 4, started feeling really good with about a 70% reduction in SXs from when I was taking the valium alone (5 mgs). Week 5, max. positive therapeutic effects from the Lexapro realized. 90% reduction in SXs. After I felt better, I started tapering down from the 5 mgs of valium, dry cutting using a razor blade. Essentially, I am cutting the scored 5 mgs V tablets into 10 pieces and I am taking away one piece every 3 weeks. The reductions are approx. .5 mgs every 3 weeks. I make a cut tomorrow. I will then be taking approx. 2 mgs of valium. In 4X3 = 12  more weeks at my current taper rate, I should be completely off the valium.

PS - about a week ago, I removed 2.5 mgs of the Lexapro with no loss in the positive therapeutic effects. So now, I am taking only 7.5 mgs of Lexapro. After I am off the Valium, I will continue taking the 7.5 mgs of Lexapro for 6-12 months, then I will reduce the Lexapro in 2.5 mg increments monthly. I should be off the Lexapro in 3 months after I begin the taper. HTH

[[Gr...]]

@[An...] Jealous (just kidding) you will soon be clean of this junk once and for all, but you did put your time in that's for sure. It will be a fabulous feeling for you. I'll have to get you some virtual balloons to celebrate. 

[[An...]]

2 hours ago, [[G...] said:

@[An...] I am so very, very happy that's working for you for all the years you have been dedicated. You really stuck it out. You've been a kind buddy to me.  I am maybe in a boat you were at first, not as dreadful, but early enough for a second chance? Is it the V or Lexapro you feel is helping you the best? 

You say you are "having a very smooth w/d unlike all my other past attempts"  Does that mean past as in way back, or the cuts you are doing?

i keep asking you, it was 1 or 2 months before you started V?  Reason I ask is just for an idea about it. 

**Did you start V first before Lexapro?

Good evening Grace,

Grace, I honestly believe the Lexapro is helping me the most. I could not believe it but after 5 weeks on 10 mgs of lexapro, I felt 90% better. That was when I slowly started my taper from the 5 mgs of Valium. See my post to Chantal for specific details. You will most likely see a spike in SXs but a girl in reddit told me to stick it out and give it a chance. She was on Xanax for PTSD. Let me see if I can find her exact reply to me and post it here.....hold on....I don't post in Reddit often.

She said to me in reddit>>>>

 

 

Quote

 

I was diagnosed with PTSD and couldn’t fall asleep without a Xanax every. single. night. My body was experiencing hypnogogic jerks any time I’d fall asleep (basically my brain signaling to my body that it was in danger and to not fall asleep). Truly no hell on earth quite like that.

Tried every homeopathic / therapeutic route (was in therapy specifically for this) to ween off the Xanax, but nothing worked. The jerks were relentless. Wasn’t able to sleep for one effing minute. My neurologist put me on a taper schedule and said the only thing that could properly support the tapering off of Xanax was an SSRI, so he wrote me for lexapro. I was apprehensive, but so desperate. I thought I was going to actually die from lack of ability to sleep.

The first 2 weeks were absolute hell on earth. I felt like a prisoner in my own body. But after that? Bliss. I was able to taper off Xannies and get back to my old normal self. It’s been 1.5 years on 10mg and I dont know if I’ll ever go off it at this point. Best of luck, it’s worth trying. Just know the first two weeks are going to suck so bad, but there’s a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

 

 

[[Gr...]]

@[An...] Who suggested Lexapro?  Doc?

I read it can cause tinnitus. True? 

How about weight gain or stomach issues (I have sensitive stomach to meds)? 

Is 10mg the lowest dose?

Do you think you could have just used Lexapro and tapered off V long ago?

The V started about 2 mos or so after K?  How soon after the V did you start Lex? 

She had a good neurologist. The one I have barely remembers your name.

You will be a happy pup when this is done. Long time waiting.

Edited October 29, 2023 by [Gr...]

[[An...]]

PS

Grace said>>>>

Quote

**Did you start V first before Lexapro?

Yes, I was just on the Valium. It was the only Rx med I was taking and I felt miserable while I was taking it each day Grace.

Grace said>>>

Quote

i keep asking you, it was 1 or 2 months before you started V?  Reason I ask is just for an idea about it. 

Grace, I have been on valium since late 2008. I made many attempts at detox but failed each time. I never tapered tho using the 5-10 % reductions like BB advocate. I would start to taper, get in a hurry, make big cuts, and jump too soon. Then, I would start feeling like hell and reinstate. Actually, I would be feeling like hell before I even began. Those attempts always ended in failure. Essentially, I have been just sick all these years but still taking the drug.

The small cuts all the way down to zero this time along with the Lexapro is working really good for me. I do not feel perfect but I would say 90% of the horrid SXs are gone as I slowly taper down the Valium. Today, I worked in the yard 3 hours mowing the lawn for my mother and felt really good the entire day. I will let you know if anything changes as I taper down lower. Things may still get bad but IDK yet. I make another .5 mg cut starting tomorrow.

[[Gr...]]

@[An...] Wow. I thought maybe the V was a little easier on you. Makes sense why you'd taper Lex last. I wonder if you would have needed V at all?  Can an SSRI compensate for a benzo by means of some kind of overall stabilization?  It's hard to pick which poison, you know?

 

[[An...]]

Grace, I will answer the questions to your last post or posts tomorrow. Feel free to ask me anything you want. I so badly want off this crap and I would love all my benzobuddies like you and others to get off this crap too and feel better. None of us want to be on this junk, but you get trapped in a vicious cycle that seems almost impossible to escape from.

[[An...]]

1 minute ago, [[G...] said:

@[An...] Wow. I thought maybe the V was a little easier on you. Makes sense why you'd taper Lex last. I wonder if you would have needed V at all?  Can an SSRI compensate for a benzo by means of some kind of overall stabilization?  It's hard to pick which poison, you know?

I think so Grace if you can find the right SSRI. 

Professor Ashton said>>>

 

Quote

 

Antidepressants. Antidepressants are the most important adjuvant drugs to consider in withdrawal. 

There is a school of thought, mainly amongst ex-tranquilliser users, that is opposed to the taking of any other drugs during withdrawal. But suicides have occurred in several reported clinical trials of benzodiazepine withdrawal. If depression is severe during benzodiazepine withdrawal as in any other situation, it seems foolhardy to leave it untreated.

Antidepressants not only alleviate depression but also, after 2-3 weeks, have anti-anxiety effects. They are in fact a better long-term treatment than benzodiazepines for anxiety, panic and phobic disorders, and may in some cases actively help the benzodiazepine withdrawal process.

 

 

[[Gr...]]

I did not reinstate. I chickened out. I did try very low doses of V 2 days and X 2 days. I only tried the X because V didn't agree with me. I don't want any of them again. I hope you don't think less of me.  I have to stay on course. I just hope I didn't mess anything up.  It's so hard to know what to do when you are feeling so bad, you get desperate.  I hope you understand. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by [Gr...]
grammar

[[Gr...]]

I reinstated to V on 10/31 because 2.5 months of symptoms were horrendous. I am tryingvto get stable to taper off this stuff. .V seems to doc ome help but I am not functional. I am tired all day long and I have a burning feeling throughout me. I am disgusted what these meds do to us. Ita shouldn't go on for so long.

Anyone feeling the same?

[[Pa...]]

On 29/10/2023 at 05:12, [[A...] said:

Good evening Grace,

Grace, I honestly believe the Lexapro is helping me the most. I could not believe it but after 5 weeks on 10 mgs of lexapro, I felt 90% better. That was when I slowly started my taper from the 5 mgs of Valium. See my post to Chantal for specific details. You will most likely see a spike in SXs but a girl in reddit told me to stick it out and give it a chance. She was on Xanax for PTSD. Let me see if I can find her exact reply to me and post it here.....hold on....I don't post in Reddit often.

She said to me in reddit>>>>

I am happy to hear that it is working for you  but honestly i am absolutely amazed how can somebody feel that lexapro is helping him/her especially in a benzo wd... I was put on lexapro 2 years ago when i suffered benzo wd. and since a couple of months i am weaning off myself from this horses(-)it. The serotonin hypothesis has been many times debunked so these ssri/snri (and others) are not better than placebos regarding to depression anxiety,.... The only real effect they cause besides the side effects are the withdrawals. As a former benzo abuser and survivor i can say even ssris can cause realy bad wds. But for me their positive effect were non existent and even bad i can tell you. When i took benzos  i could feel their mellow flooty calming effect immediately (of course after addiction and withdrawal  i regret it 1000000x timesto take them). In the last 2 years i cannot tell you one single moment when i could feel even for a moment that lexapro caused any good for me.

Edited November 14, 2023 by [Pa...]

[[mi...]]

SSRIs were horrible for me too, both 20 years ago and now. But for some they are a dream. It's individual, but I tried prozac a couple years ago and it threw me into akathisia so that's never gonna happen again for me.

[[Gr...]]

@[Pa...] The Lex did not last. It was horrible. I stopped after a couple of days. I was profusely sweating and it made me sick. I want no part of it. Bad enough I have Val now to try to stabilize which I think is making my symptoms even worse. I am getting headache, swelling in my face, sweats, dryness, waking to a hot burning flash at 5 am, and I feel worse after I take it -- I get the burning again. Though when I am making it through without burning when I haven't taken it for hours. I think I will be getting off this, too. I am at 3 months WD from X and I am hoping I can make it on my own. 

[[Pa...]]

Yeah sweating is also a main side effect of ssris on its own. I will never ever touch devil candies(benzos) anymore thats for sure but if i had to go through the wd again (first of all i would realise it is a wd not a sudden extreme anxiety disorder out of nowhere like i thought) i would follow a precise taper like we can read on the site. I think thats the most important and helpful thing(I did CT... ouch..) Besides that i would use supplements like multivitamins, but the most important which helped me in phenibut withdrawal (its similar to benzos but it effects GABA-B instead of A) was NAC(N-Acetylcysteine). I dont want to promote it and  we can see everybody chemistry is different but in phenibut wd it helped me a LOT,  IMO it could be much more useful than ssris. You will make it! Just sucks now, really sucks....

Edited November 14, 2023 by [Pa...]

[[mi...]]

@[Gr...] I know you don’t feel good on Valium Grace but I will tell you that before you got on Valium you were posting every every 20 minutes the same thing over and over in a panic and now you’re not doing that so maybe it is working better than you think even though you don’t feel good. Sometimes the improvements are in things that we can’t see but others can. if you get off the Valium, there’s a very good chance you go back to the daily panic immediately where you literally couldn’t live another minute without posting again and again all day every day. Just something for you to think about.

[[Gr...]]

@[mi...] I am having side effects from the Val, but it must be a miracle drug considering I've only been on it 2 wks and at a lower dose than at start. Look, it's been more than 20 minutes since I last posted. You know, I did endure a torturous 2.5+ months 24/7, it may have sucked everything out of or in me. 

Thanks for bringing to my attention that I posted every 20 minutes, and that I may do so again and again every day in the future. Wow. I hope I didn't put you out. In case you missed it in my every 20-minute posts, I don't drink, never smoked, don't do recreational drugs. Sorry a senior such as I is not a seasoned pill user and I was concerned and petrified what was happening to me. I came here in a plea for help bc of my fear and I did have many questions.  Maybe I'm just too old and I have valid concerns I may not recover.

I've seen numerous topics made the same people, there are some who don't shower, don't leave the house -- for months?  And come here for advice? What do you say to them? "Go to a therapist?"  Why?  In all my pain I showered, cared for myself, dogs, husband, and home, did the best I could, left the house and got things done, because life still goes on.

The plan by my doc is to get off the Val and there's also a very good chance I will have had enough of it if it is the miracle drug. I wonder why you are on my case. I have fear and I am afraid, yet I've been pleasant in my posts and to everyone on this site. I've read some of your posts and I see anger and rage. 

I get it you're not a fan (although you kept track of my posts). I hope I do get better, so great that all my pain is gone forever, and I do so well that I can do cartwheels. I hope the same for you as well.

Edited December 3, 2023 by [Gr...]
typo

[[mi...]]

Grace relax. I am not on your case and you’re not putting me out. I’ve been in the same place as you and I am not doing well at all. I was pointing something out. I tend to be direct but I by no means am making fun or or getting annoyed at people on a self help website. This stuff is devastating. What I’m saying to you is since you got on Valium it appears your posts are less often and frantic. Can you not see that? To me that is a good thing. You don’t have to feel good to be stabilizing. Sometimes the side effects suck, but the underlying nervous system stabilization is resolving slowly.  I hate how I feel on Klonopin, but if I stopped it tomorrow I would be in hell or worse. I don’t sugarcoat things but you’ve completely misread this if you think I am on your case. We are all scared or we wouldn’t be on this site. I think you’re expecting this to end tomorrow, but I think everybody is and we are all in disbelief that this can happen. But your franticness is something we have all felt now or at some point and since you started Valium, your frantic panicking posts that were sometimes dozens a day became much less. I’m not making fun of you, I’m trying to illustrate a point with a very clear example that proves my point. That tells me from a distance that you are at least able to distract better. Sorry if I came across as any different in my approach. I’m not exactly tactful these days with how I feel. And I live in Florida but I’m from Boston and we don’t beat around the bush. Blame my parents.

Edited November 16, 2023 by [mi...]

[[Si...]]

@[Gr...] that's a horrible thing to say.  Some people don't get out of the house and get things done because they are that ill.  I am one of them.  You are fortunate not to have suffered to that degree. The reason why we come to this forum is because family friends and doctors do not understand. On top of our relentless torture, we're told to get a grip or that we are weak.  Why don't you stay out of the forum and take your problems to a therapist as per your advice.  

[[pi...]]

58 minutes ago, [[S...] said:

@[Gr...] that's a horrible thing to say.  Some people don't get out of the house and get things done because they are that ill.  I am one of them.  You are fortunate not to have suffered to that degree. The reason why we come to this forum is because family friends and doctors do not understand. On top of our relentless torture, we're told to get a grip or that we are weak.  Why don't you stay out of the forum and take your problems to a therapist as per your advice.  

I would like to remind you that this forum is for everyone, no matter what their situation is. It’s very important to respect each other, being a peer support forum, this the hallmark of BB. It is not polite or respectful to urge anyone to stay away from the forum. 

Please review forum guidelines:

Be polite towards, and respectful of, your fellow Buddies.