GI Symptoms During Wave

[[Fa...]]

3 hours ago, [[S...] said:

Thank you so much for getting back to me, Glad I have done it right, I notice when people answering other people .there names come up in blue, how do I do that? I don't suppose you have any Answers to my question? So very kind of you to be patient with me, We are all going through hard times yourself included through this horrible process 

That is 'mentioning' someone.  Within the text you are writing, you start with hitting the '@' and start to type the person's name...it will pop up with different options for you to choose from of the members on the site based on what you have typed in.  Select the member you are wanting to address and it will pop into your text.  That will notify that member they have been mentioned in a post.

Also, Mary...when you make a post, the subject line is important.  It does not require your name because your name will automatically be shown.  The subject line is important in order to let others know what your topic/inquiry is.  So, next time, use the subject line for what it is your topic or concern is.  This will help with responses, too.

You may be able to edit your subject line if you go into your post and hit the edit function.

[Guest [...]]

@[Sc...] 

Could you please fill out your medication/taper history. I’ll provide some feedback once I see your taper rate and percentage. 

I just crashed at just over 2.5mg recently, and I’ve had to up-dose. It turns out I was going too fast when I got to lower doses. When I say too fast… I’d been tapering at 5% of each remaining daily dose, every two weeks. My gut issues went through the roof as soon as I crashed. 

It may interest you to know that after I c/t’d clonazepam, eventually reinstating (no crossover) on diazepam, it took a long time to adjust to the Valium. During this time when very unstable, I experienced what one would consider to be paradoxical reactions to each dose of Valium. Symptoms would skyrocket within 30-60min after dosing. Eventually I stabilised on the Valium, and once I did, all paradoxical type reactions ceased altogether and doses became therapeutic. I’m experiencing a similar effect now whilst waiting to stabilise, but I expect things to settle again once I do. 

This is the reason we need to see a medication/taper history… (which we really urge/need every single member to fill out) to see if you’ve been tapering too fast, even if it may not have initially appeared too fast for you.

If you are unstable, it’s not unusual for some, including me, to experience strange paradoxical type symptoms after dosing, which is not actually true paradoxical. Once stable, these strange paradoxical symptoms often resolve. 
 

@[mi...]

You have filled out your medication/taper history, which is appreciated, but if you could just add each new reduction and date of reduction once you start tapering again, it would be very helpful for us to access in relation to any future feedback you may seek. 
 

In regard to your GI issues… it makes perfect sense that these symptoms exploded as you became destabilised by trying to switch from accord to Teva. 
 

Now that you are back on the accord… hold your dose until symptoms settle down and you feel stable again. 
 

WS 

 

[[mi...]]

@[Wi...] do you think when I stabilize the gut should settle down as well? I haven’t been this unstable in two years and that was the last time my gut was like this. Mini waves didn’t do this to me before. This isn’t a mini wave. 

[Guest [...]]

@[mi...] It sounds like that change in brand hit you very hard, completely destabilising you. I think you need to give yourself the time needed to stabilise, and I think there’s a good chance your GI issues will settle down. 

I’m hoping for the same here. My digestion basically ceased up. Massive bloat. Feel so much worse after eating that I no longer want to eat. I’m unstable, but I imagine GI issues will settle as we stabilise. 

There’s no set time to stabilise within, so we have to be patient in holding.

What other symptoms are you experiencing since that switch to Teva? 
 

 

[[mi...]]

The switch to Teva didn’t upset my gut that bad, just a little. It took away my appetite, gave me some minor weight loss, made me feel depressed and agitated, gave me insane panic. It was horrible. But after 6 weeks we tried switching to a pure K liquid blend from a compounding pharmacy and that was the dagger that did me in. Within 24hrs my gut exploded in pain. Bloating and distension, reactions to everything, pain when I sleep, pain when I sit. Gurgling sensations, hyper awareness of every nerve in my gut. Massive pressure, feeling of inflamed insides and can’t even put a seatbelt over it. Can’t be touched. Rapid weight loss of 7 lbs in a week. Continued weight loss after that totalling 27 lbs between both brand switches. Heart rate through roof. Insane sweating, hyper awareness of everything, Dp/dr, can’t handle anything, all five senses going on overdrive. It is like every single system of my body was affected. Oh yeah libido which was good turned off. It just put me right over the edge. Weight is finally stabilizing and slowly turning a corner and senses are kind of easing up a bit. But I can’t eat foods I was eating the day before I switched to liquid. The gut did not happen in isolation. It wasn’t like oh look here’s a new symptom. It happened at the exact same time. I crashed on liquid and had other symptoms intensify as well so it’s definitely tied to my nervous system in the crash that I had. I just hope that I can return to where it was. It’s only been five weeks that I’ve been on accord and I know I can take months to stabilize. 

[Guest [...]]

It’s positive that your weight is stabilising and senses are easing… I would read this as a sign of a gradual move towards stabilisation. I would just keep holding and allow time to do its thing. I imagine that with time, your GI symptoms will also improve. Stabilisation isn’t something that happens overnight. It’s a gradual process, and the time it takes can vary from one individual to the next. I would try and be as positive and confident as possible, as I believe this will also help the process along. It may help you to trust in the process if you rate all your symptoms out of 10 daily, just so you can gauge those gradual improvements. 
 

WS 

 

[[mi...]]

@[Wi...] when you aren’t crashing how are your GI symptoms? Mine are mostly good. Certain foods will set me off some days and not others but once I have my morning bowel movement I feel great the rest of the day. Strangely in this current wave I am having completely normal bowel movements also which I find so odd as it feels like my gut is paralyzed. Makes me realize it’s nerves and muscles for me not the actual peristalsis. 

[Guest [...]]

On 04/09/2023 at 03:10, [[m...] said:

@[Fa...] I tapered linear since last year. Slowly climbing but never more than 3.25% every two weeks or 6.5% per month and always every two weeks. I always felt better first week of a cut, mind felt clearer, mood better. Second week was always rough. I will say I never allowed the cuts to fully stabilize before I cut again at 14 days but ironically when I cut it would immediately make me feel good again as I’d it took me out of WD. I’m wondering if I was building up a debt without realizing it and it caught up with me finally. And then the med changes were the tipping point. 

I think this has more than likely played a part in making you vulnerable to that switch to Teva and then to the liquid. I believe the reductions were most likely piling up without you really noticing, and then the switch caused a crash… the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak. 
 

I would suggest that once you stabilise and begin tapering, you make sure to give yourself additional time to recover where necessary, and if you’re not sure when, then just build extra holds in now and then. As far as tapering methods at these lower doses, I would look to someone who has done it, and can provide you with guidance. Faith mentioned Jelly baby, so hopefully she’ll be able to jump in at some point with some helpful advice. You are holding, so there’s plenty of time for someone to help you out in regard to tapering at these lower doses. 
 

I have SIBO, multiple food chemical sensitivities, MCAS, and intestinal permeability, so I always have a few issues, but they were mostly kept under control with diet until I crashed. I generally have normal bowel movements also, unless I’m experiencing extreme anxiety, within which they become watery. I’d say you have normal bowel movements because there are no issues in your lower bowel. It’s probably more stomach and small intestine, rather than large intestine, however, that’s just a complete guess based on my own experience with gut issues. Yes… I believe it’s probably just nerve endings causing issues for you, nerve endings being an issue throughout the body in benzo withdrawal. 
 

I’ve barely recovered from my previous meal by the time my next meal is due. Everything has just gone offline in my digestive tract. 

 

[[mi...]]

@[Wi...] it’s my colon, bladder, prostate, intestines and stomach. Not always at the same time but everything is affected at any given time. I do not have sibo, I’ve been tested, foods don’t make me sick when the nerves aren’t going crazy. Sometimes my stomach feels swollen and nauseous and other times the intestines swell. Other times I can’t pee and feel like someone is squeezing the bladder. It’s all pelvic muscles and nerves. I’m not saying I was perfect before this episode I never thought about what I was eating, I just ate it and move on with my day. I knew the foods that didn’t make me feel ideal so I just didn’t eat them, but I had no fear of food. Now I’m petrified what I eat is going to make me sick but ironically, I don’t feel sick from a meal, it just comes and goes whether I eat or not and it’s pretty intense when it’s there, which is most of the time. Today strangely I’m having an 80% window. Maybe I’m starting to see some small stabilization

[Guest [...]]

Keep holding @[mi...]

As I said, stabilisation is a gradual process, and the fact that you are actually noticing small improvements now, is a very good sign. 

[[mi...]]

@[Wi...] so stabilization is weeks/months right? It took months for this debt to build up so I imagine it needs months to fully heal

[Guest [...]]

Not necessarily! 

The fact that you are now noticing improvements says that you are on your way.

It’s different for everyone, but when I had to hold for 13 weeks to completely stabilise and gain the courage to begin tapering again, I didn’t notice any improvement at all until about 6 weeks. 

[[mi...]]

@[Wi...] I haven’t held more then 3 weeks in probably 14 months. I have only been back on my accord brand for 5 weeks and haven’t been stabilizing at all. But I noticed my weight no longer dropping, my libido slowly coming back, and a little less panic. It’s good to know that others have felt nothing for weeks before turning a corner. I always get scared when nothing happens or things get worse initially. I’m sure my body has been dying to get a break for a long time. It sucks it had to come to this though. Why do you think you just crashed again? Went too fast?

[Guest [...]]

Tapered too fast as I got lower in dose… didn’t pay close enough attention to see the hammer falling. I also tried to taper escitalopram along with the benzo, which is something I would never advise other members to do, but apparently I don’t listen to my own advice so well, so I paid the price. 

keep track of your symptoms @[mi...]

Write each symptom down every day and rate them out of 10. It’ll help you trust that you are improving. 

[[mi...]]

@[Wi...] it seems like a lot of people hit a wall around the same dose. 3mg Valium, .18mg or so K. It seems almost universal. I definitely didn’t read the warning signs and just cut right through everything and because I was drinking coffee to help with cog fog I never felt it coming. Coffee didn’t affect me negatively if in small amounts so I blocked the wd effects with it and lived on adrenaline until I couldn’t. Then the brand switches and all hell broke loose. 

[Guest [...]]

Coffee may also have played a similar part for me

[[mi...]]

@[Wi...] sure tasted good though!

[[mi...]]

@[Wi...] I think these crashes are usually due to a cascade of things and not usually one thing. I keep blaming it on me trying liquid but honestly I had changed over 25% of my dose to a liquid compound for 24 hours and my body went crazy. I mean if I was rock solid there’s no way that happens. But I wasn’t stable at all and had just cut 8 days prior. It was definitely effected by the liquid, but I was already very unstable from Teva and felt crazy on that stuff and was having insane episodes of panic and depression cycling rapidly already even though my gut was OK. Just prior to the switch to Teva I had a couple of severe panic attacks also that I hadn’t had in a long time so I think it was just a gradual crash and then it became an accelerated crash with the switches and then all of the symptoms manifested in my body was screaming at me to stop. A perfect storm. It’s so hard to see it from the inside, you really need someone on the outside who knows you to point out what is happening and that is what my wife has done. Your brain gets broken so you can’t see what’s happening clearly. Literally every single symptom that lists as a withdrawal symptom I am experiencing. Every single one. I’ve never had this many symptoms in my life at the same time and when I look back at all of the changes I’ve done and the lack of holds and all of that it makes sense I suppose but it’s so weird how you just feel like you’re going along fine and fully functional and then the bottom falls out. And I don’t feel like I was being reckless either, I wasn’t doing big cut and I was doing every two weeks just like they tell you and just over 6% per month so I thought I was safe I guess some of us just have to be more careful than others. 

[Guest [...]]

Yes, I totally agree, @[mi...]

It’s often a combination, either accumulative, or coinciding. 

It certainly was for me, and I think you will find it’s very common. 

we simply don’t see the signs early enough… 

[[mi...]]

@[Wi...] how bad was your last crash when you had to hold for 13 weeks and did you get back to baseline after your hold? Also is your baseline typically very functional or are you extremely symptomatic? I was extremely functional with very minor symptoms. Like half the time I didn’t even know I was on a benzo except for when my phone remind me to go take it.

[Guest [...]]

It was bad. 

Baseline is quite functional, and yes, I got back to baseline. After holding, it was the best I’d felt since before benzo’s. 

 

[[mi...]]

@[Wi...] that gives me so much hope. Did you have the severe benzo belly symptoms during that crash also and did they get better when you stabilized. 

[Guest [...]]

I can’t remember whether I had benzo belly back then or not, @[mi...]. It was absolute hell, endless symptoms, but what matters is that I did eventually stabilise. 

[[mi...]]

@[Wi...] Not sure I asked you this but when was that last crash when you held for 13 weeks and what dose were you on. And I may have forgotten to ask but what do you think was the trigger for that one. 

[[mi...]]

@[Wi...] what have been your worst symptoms in your current crash and your previous ones where you held?