Down to 1.25mgs of clonazepam

[[Co...]]

Been crazy this 3.5 years of tapering off what was once a 24mg a day dose of clonazepam. 

Today I went down to 1.25mgs and it seems my gaba receptors are so sensitive I started feeling the drop within 6 hours of the decrease, although I don't know how much is mental, but it was the physical symptoms that came on 1st not mental or anxiety. Just feeling messed up, out of it and hyper sensitive. I'm hoping it won't get much worse but the tinnitus is definitely louder then normal.

 

This is the lowest dose I've been on in a very long time, I did get off in 2007 cold turkey off 5mgs but that was a terrible experience. Got off 2mgs on 2012 for about a week then went running to my nearest urgent care and got back on, then the dose just went up and up until in 2015 I was on 24mgs to 2019, I tapered 22mgs in 11 months then covid hit,  held at 2mgs, got down to 1.5mgs last August but went back up to 2 by December,  then started tapering again.

 

I'm determined not to reinstate. I want off these pills so bad. I'm so close yet still feels so far away. If I am realistic I'm hoping to be off them by spring/early summer next year but we'll see.

 

Been quite a journey and once off them I never wanna see a benzo again,  but im Ana addict and am afraid of if the withdrawals get to much ill either reinstate or use illicit benzos.

 

Been doing NA (I'm poly substance dependent/ have been addicted to opioids, cocaine, crack, and other downers)

NA is definitely helping,  and because my clonazepam is prescribed ill be taking my 1 year clean tag October 7th this year. I just don't want to self sabotage.

So yeah I'll be updating my progress I suppose on here as I go, or just make new posts for each drop..🤷 I wish anyone going through this success,  it's crazy how difficult these drugs are to get off of and they're so easily prescribed 

[[Ho...]]

Hello connmann86,

You have quite a story! It's great that you're in NA and that you're finding it helpful. You've spent a long, long time tapering to get where you are today. The best way to taper is slowly, no more than 5%-10% every two weeks, but I'm sure you know that by now! Congratulations, it's quite a feat and you should be proud. It's hard to imagine you'd go back after all your hard work, but that's why you're in NA right?

It's very quick to feel your most recent drop! Added stress, a med change, alcohol or a host of other things can factor in. Something to keep in mind! You may need to hold your current dose until you feel stable, which can be more than two weeks. The amount of time doesn't matter so much as keeping yourself as close to stable as you can. The less you suffer, the less likely you'll be to go back.

You can start a Progress Log for yourself right here:

https://benzobuddies.org/forum/42-progress-log/

and you'll be able to track your progress. It's so helpful to be able to look back and see what's been happening, especially when you're in a wave and not thinking clearly! Logs can also jog your memory and give you data to compare all the changes and stressors in your life.

You've done a great job. Keep going! You can do this! 

HCHC

[[Co...]]

I appreciate that, I don't use any other substances now other then my sublocade (a subcutaneous injection form of suboxone) and my other prescribed meds but none are anything more then anti depression meds or blood pressure meds and thyroid etc , I gave up drinking last October that was my last vice to go cuz yeah it was Making the tapering harder

I can seem to handle the .25mg drops cuz there's no smaller dose and I usually do it every 2 months or so. I dunno how I'd really take smaller then .25mgs cuz the pills are so small

[[Gl...]]

Wow, I'm so amazed at your progress.  That's the highest dose of Klonopin I've ever seen here. Congrats on coming so far! I'm like you and never, ever, ever, ever want to see another benzo in my life after this.  I can understand your fear of going back, but would you really want to go through all this again?  No!  Is there a more heinous medication than benzos?  Not in my experience. I'm breaking up with them for good (in a year or so).

[[Co...]]

No I wouldn't,  but I did go cold turkey in 2007 off 5mgs and after 30 days of pure hell  then 3 months of post acute withdrawal I still went back on them thinking it'd be different 1.5 years later. But I was young,  also I'm an addict and I had undiagnosed PTSD and borderline on top of my generalized anxiety disorder. 

My fear is that I'd cave if the withdrawal got bad enough. Although this time I'm taking every precaution and measure to make that not happen.

 

And yeah it's the highest dose most anyone I talk to has heard of including a lot of Dr's I've seen. It was malpractice,  but that ship has sailed otherwise yeah I'd sue. It's taken years of my life away from me. But all I can do is go forward 

[Guest [...]]

3 hours ago, [[C...] said:

I appreciate that, I don't use any other substances now other then my sublocade (a subcutaneous injection form of suboxone) and my other prescribed meds but none are anything more then anti depression meds or blood pressure meds and thyroid etc , I gave up drinking last October that was my last vice to go cuz yeah it was Making the tapering harder

I can seem to handle the .25mg drops cuz there's no smaller dose and I usually do it every 2 months or so. I dunno how I'd really take smaller then .25mgs cuz the pills are so small

Hi @[Co...]

I just wonder if you might be better off using a jewellers scale for this last 2mg. I know you say you’ve been tolerating 0.25mg reductions to this point, but these last couple of mg’s will most likely be considerably more difficult than you may imagine. Down until 2.5mg’s that reduction had always been below 10% reductions, but now you are at 2mg’s, your reduction percentage has now climbed above 10% with 0.25mg reductions. You want those reductions to remain at 10% or lower as you taper down from here. Your brain honestly doesn’t see it as just another 0.25mg cut… it sees it in terms of percentage of your total remaining dose, and as I said… now that that total remaining dose is down to 2mg, you are now reducing more than that recommended 10% and it’s climbing with each new reduction. That recommended 10% is actually the top end of what is recommended, with many of our other members having to reduce at more like 5% because 10% is just too symptomatically intense. 

You’ve come such a long way to here… and you should be really proud of yourself. I would hate to see you crash badly over these remaining 2mg’s, so please consider tapering at, or below that 10% for the remaining 2mg’s. So many of us have fallen into this trap and suffered unnecessarily because of this very mistake. We are here to try to help you avoid those same mistakes, so please consider this advice. We can provide you with a link to a suitable cheap jewellers scale from Amazon, and provide you with the information and guidance to taper these last 2mg’s safely with the least amount of pain and suffering possible. 

WS

[[or...]]

8 hours ago, [[C...] said:

Been crazy this 3.5 years of tapering off what was once a 24mg a day dose of clonazepam. 

Today I went down to 1.25mgs and it seems my gaba receptors are so sensitive I started feeling the drop within 6 hours of the decrease, although I don't know how much is mental, but it was the physical symptoms that came on 1st not mental or anxiety. Just feeling messed up, out of it and hyper sensitive. I'm hoping it won't get much worse but the tinnitus is definitely louder then normal.

This is the lowest dose I've been on in a very long time, I did get off in 2007 cold turkey off 5mgs but that was a terrible experience. Got off 2mgs on 2012 for about a week then went running to my nearest urgent care and got back on, then the dose just went up and up until in 2015 I was on 24mgs to 2019, I tapered 22mgs in 11 months then covid hit,  held at 2mgs, got down to 1.5mgs last August but went back up to 2 by December,  then started tapering again.

I'm determined not to reinstate. I want off these pills so bad. I'm so close yet still feels so far away. If I am realistic I'm hoping to be off them by spring/early summer next year but we'll see.

Been quite a journey and once off them I never wanna see a benzo again,  but im Ana addict and am afraid of if the withdrawals get to much ill either reinstate or use illicit benzos.

Been doing NA (I'm poly substance dependent/ have been addicted to opioids, cocaine, crack, and other downers)

NA is definitely helping,  and because my clonazepam is prescribed ill be taking my 1 year clean tag October 7th this year. I just don't want to self sabotage.

So yeah I'll be updating my progress I suppose on here as I go, or just make new posts for each drop..🤷 I wish anyone going through this success,  it's crazy how difficult these drugs are to get off of and they're so easily prescribed 

I'm so glad you are here CM!  Your story is honest and open, it will help so many and you've already helped me.  I am thinking about going to an NA meeting but I wasn't sure yet, I need as much help as I can get.  I was in AA for 15 years but after a divorce, I went on the road and drifted away.  Now I am just 5 months into tapering off 1 mg I've taken for 35 years, very slow like the Tortoise but getting there.  I do love how NA/AA got me to be honest with myself, and then others.  Again, I am glad you are here, Denise I did send a "chat" to you about my friend here that has had long Covid.  I know nothing about it, other than folks I know that had it, which is not a lot, not first-hand knowledge for sure.  Here's their thread if you might be able to reply there as well.  I'm following you now so I can get your updates

[[or...]]

3 hours ago, [[W...] said:

Hi @[Co...]

I just wonder if you might be better off using a jewellers scale for this last 2mg. I know you say you’ve been tolerating 0.25mg reductions to this point, but these last couple of mg’s will most likely be considerably more difficult than you may imagine. Down until 2.5mg’s that reduction had always been below 10% reductions, but now you are at 2mg’s, your reduction percentage has now climbed above 10% with 0.25mg reductions. You want those reductions to remain at 10% or lower as you taper down from here. Your brain honestly doesn’t see it as just another 0.25mg cut… it sees it in terms of percentage of your total remaining dose, and as I said… now that that total remaining dose is down to 2mg, you are now reducing more than that recommended 10% and it’s climbing with each new reduction. That recommended 10% is actually the top end of what is recommended, with many of our other members having to reduce at more like 5% because 10% is just too symptomatically intense. 

You’ve come such a long way to here… and you should be really proud of yourself. I would hate to see you crash badly over these remaining 2mg’s, so please consider tapering at, or below that 10% for the remaining 2mg’s. So many of us have fallen into this trap and suffered unnecessarily because of this very mistake. We are here to try to help you avoid those same mistakes, so please consider this advice. We can provide you with a link to a suitable cheap jewellers scale from Amazon, and provide you with the information and guidance to taper these last 2mg’s safely with the least amount of pain and suffering possible. 

WS

I use the scale and it is a cheapie one, but it settles on my number after a few seconds.  I have been trying to wrap my head around the Hyperbolic Taper, but I haven't so far @[Co...] do you know anything about it? Here's just a really confusing video.  My 1 mg is looking pretty puny already and I'm only 30% down.  There's info on Youtube, but won't post the videos, just a link if you want to look at it. I can't help anyone with it right now as I don't "get" it or how to start from where I am in my taper, Denise

[[or...]]

8 hours ago, [[C...] said:

I appreciate that, I don't use any other substances now other then my sublocade (a subcutaneous injection form of suboxone) and my other prescribed meds but none are anything more then anti depression meds or blood pressure meds and thyroid etc , I gave up drinking last October that was my last vice to go cuz yeah it was Making the tapering harder

I can seem to handle the .25mg drops cuz there's no smaller dose and I usually do it every 2 months or so. I dunno how I'd really take smaller then .25mgs cuz the pills are so small

One thing at a time, and One day at a time, I say it because I need to hear it, good medicine.  I am a bit afraid to go to an NA, even though AA changed my life, but I guess I'm afraid that everything has changed since I joined back in 1985, when I was astounded to find others that were like me, related to me and their stories blew me away.  I just need to be around some folks in-person as well.  They have one every night in my small town, thank you for talking about it openly, it's so encouraged me to go, Denise

[[Co...]]

13 hours ago, [[W...] said:

Hi @[Co...]

I just wonder if you might be better off using a jewellers scale for this last 2mg. I know you say you’ve been tolerating 0.25mg reductions to this point, but these last couple of mg’s will most likely be considerably more difficult than you may imagine. Down until 2.5mg’s that reduction had always been below 10% reductions, but now you are at 2mg’s, your reduction percentage has now climbed above 10% with 0.25mg reductions. You want those reductions to remain at 10% or lower as you taper down from here. Your brain honestly doesn’t see it as just another 0.25mg cut… it sees it in terms of percentage of your total remaining dose, and as I said… now that that total remaining dose is down to 2mg, you are now reducing more than that recommended 10% and it’s climbing with each new reduction. That recommended 10% is actually the top end of what is recommended, with many of our other members having to reduce at more like 5% because 10% is just too symptomatically intense. 

You’ve come such a long way to here… and you should be really proud of yourself. I would hate to see you crash badly over these remaining 2mg’s, so please consider tapering at, or below that 10% for the remaining 2mg’s. So many of us have fallen into this trap and suffered unnecessarily because of this very mistake. We are here to try to help you avoid those same mistakes, so please consider this advice. We can provide you with a link to a suitable cheap jewellers scale from Amazon, and provide you with the information and guidance to taper these last 2mg’s safely with the least amount of pain and suffering possible. 

WS

Yeah it'll be something I talk to my prescribing Dr about,  I'm actually now at 1.25mgs I was at 1.5 I just went down .25mgs again on Tuesday, I feel off but it's not terrible. I did kinda mention the 10% thing to him when I last saw him but I am also doing those cuts every 2 months to give myself alot of time to adjust as much as possible, I was chatting with someone last night that said they did the micro water taper, I'd have to look into that, or do small dry cutting possibly. I mean yeah this last drop was around a 16.25% drop, and it'll be a 20% drop next time if I do .25mgs again. Although even though it is tough I kinda also just want this to be done with.. even doing a .25mg cut every 2 months I'd still be looking at another 10 months so roughly June next year to be off totally unless I jump at .5mgs or something. It's alot to think about especially taking it 1 day at a time. But as if today after already 30+ hours since my dose cut my anxiety isn't that bad it's more physical symptoms like mild opioid withdrawal feeling surprisingly my anxiety is pretty alright. Although it seems each drop has been a bit different in terms of which symptoms hit harder or are more intense. If I had a detox in this city that'd hold me as long as I needed I'd probably just do a cold turkey again, but unfortunately there's none here in my city I live in unlike back east in Toronto where there were many and held you as long as needed. Even though my city now is almost 1.5 million ppl there's 1 medical detox with 40 male beds and usually only keep you 7 days give or take depending on severity of symptoms,  such a conservative province I live in.

 

But yeah, my dr that's doing the prescribing now is not the one who put me on that insane dose of 24mgs a day and he is an addiction specialist I think I mentioned as he works in the clinic where I get my sublocade injections (subcutaneous form of suboxone) he did mention one way he does tapering with ppl hooked on barbiturates,  where it was basically they see how many (if any) pills less in a script period they could take less, if that be 1 pill in 14 days or  none so be it, if it's a couple even better,  then he'll tell them to dispose of those leftovers. I'm pretty strong willed right now but I dunno if that'd really work with me, although I did my last drop before this one when I picked up my script for 14 days get 10 extra .5mg pills the pharmacy mis counted and in all my years of using lol it had to happen when sober and trying to get off this crap, I had a major devil on my shoulder,  but I immediately called my sponsor and told him and we met later that day and I disposed of them.

Anyway sorry for ranting, had a hard time sleeping last night so took Melatonin,  took 10mgs to finally get to sleep but man I stayed asleep way to long but better then not sleeping I suppose especially when I need to heal.

[[Co...]]

9 hours ago, [[o...] said:

One thing at a time, and One day at a time, I say it because I need to hear it, good medicine.  I am a bit afraid to go to an NA, even though AA changed my life, but I guess I'm afraid that everything has changed since I joined back in 1985, when I was astounded to find others that were like me, related to me and their stories blew me away.  I just need to be around some folks in-person as well.  They have one every night in my small town, thank you for talking about it openly, it's so encouraged me to go, Denise

Yeah I get that,  I was isolating for years and it kept me sick and in my own head way to much, going to NA last October was definitely the best decision I made for myself in many years, and now also going to CA cuz as you said I needed to be around ppl. I thought by hiding in my room I was keeping all stimulus away but it just led to way to much ruminating and that lead to more anxiety Erich lead to using and then the cycle continued and I didn't want to think of getting off clonazepam let alone other substances. But I couldn't have landed in a better group of people in both fellowships. And my sponsor is like my opposite lol, I'm very analytical,  was very introverted , and very high anxiety,  he's very easy going,  doesn't think to far into things and really doesn't know what anxiety feels like  so it's been good for us both as the sponsor/sponsee  relationship is supposed to be.

[[or...]]

Funny I would hear from you right now, I was busy doing negative self-talk, deciding what's the use, you won't fit in it will be all young folks with far worse things going on in their lives.  Isolating is my fave time of day, but you're right in everything you said.  In AA I never kept a real sponser either because I picked the wrong ones, or I wasn't going to let anyone tell me what to do.  Now I only see my mother in the mirror and I think all I have to do is get off this one drug and I'll be ok, and I can do it myself.  I know it's a lie, I know I need this forum, but I need person to person help.  This town is so small, see, I keep thinking all the negative.

I don't know what else to say at the moment, but everything you said I relate to perfectly.  I'm so outgoing, the type that hides behind a smiling face when sometimes I get tired of "being strong" which isn't strong at all, it's covering up the wounds that have never healed. But I'm just fine right 😢

[[Co...]]

2 hours ago, [[o...] said:

Funny I would hear from you right now, I was busy doing negative self-talk, deciding what's the use, you won't fit in it will be all young folks with far worse things going on in their lives.  Isolating is my fave time of day, but you're right in everything you said.  In AA I never kept a real sponser either because I picked the wrong ones, or I wasn't going to let anyone tell me what to do.  Now I only see my mother in the mirror and I think all I have to do is get off this one drug and I'll be ok, and I can do it myself.  I know it's a lie, I know I need this forum, but I need person to person help.  This town is so small, see, I keep thinking all the negative.

I don't know what else to say at the moment, but everything you said I relate to perfectly.  I'm so outgoing, the type that hides behind a smiling face when sometimes I get tired of "being strong" which isn't strong at all, it's covering up the wounds that have never healed. But I'm just fine right 😢

Yeah that's the good part about those groups weather it's NA CA AA CMA etc that I never feel judged and regardless of age race creed religion or lack of religion that everyone has something in common. Well NA and CA are definitely not religious though spiritual,  AA from what I've heard is a but more towards the religious side but that's totally cool too. Yeah my sponsor is 68 I'm just under 37 and we get along amazing and a good sponsor will never tell you what to do, they'll suggest stuff as it's says in our literature 'our leaders our but trusted servants they do not govern" or "for the group purpose there's but 1 ultimate Authority,  a loving God as they may express themselves in our group conscious" and a higher power is up to the individual. 

 

But yeah I couldn't do it alone,  trying to do it alone os what led me back on benzos cuz I figured I had the addiction thing licked after rehab,  so stopped going to meetings got back into a co dependent relationship and slowly but surely led to relapse,.

Why now I know I can't do this alone. I made it to 1.5mgs last August but had a mental breakdown and back into a psych ward and was put back up to 2mgs cuz I wasn't coping, now I make it to 1.25mgs the lowest I've been on in over 11 years and although even today feeling alot more crappy  then yesterday,  I have friends checking on me or just asking how I'm doing,  my sponsor is a shout away any time of the day or night and he's a 3 minute drive away from me and that's in a big city too. So yeah just feeling that support and knowing I'm not alone has made a huge difference in this process.

[[Co...]]

8 hours ago, [[o...] said:

😢

I can say today was definitely alot harder then yesterday,  the anxiety ramped up pretty good,  but it calmed down when I took mu night dose and my gabapentin and my mirtazapine I also take propranolol for palpitations. Ughh been put on a couple meds to help get off this one, but at least they're alot less nefarious then benzos.

Might see about doing smaller cuts more frequently instead of the .25mg cuts every 8 weeks. That or see if I can do titration through compounding or something,  if I can get it in liquid form. Cuz yeah once I get to 1mg cutting down .25 will he 25% then 33% then 50% then 100% its a bit much to think about but one day at a time. I'm doing ok but yeah this one definitely hit hard, had opioid like withdrawal symptoms today. But it's still not as bad as doing cold turkey  that's for sure, but part of me wishes I had a facility to go to and to a cold turkey again and just get through it and off finally.  Going on since April 2019 now when I started this whole tapering thing, 22mgs in 11 months off the bat, then held for 2 years then to 1.5mgs as of last August thrn back to 2mgs in December since then down .75mg to 1.25mgs now crazy to think I did 22mgs in the same time it's gonna take me to do this last 1.25mgs 😔

[[or...]]

7 hours ago, [[C...] said:

Yeah that's the good part about those groups weather it's NA CA AA CMA etc that I never feel judged and regardless of age race creed religion or lack of religion that everyone has something in common. Well NA and CA are definitely not religious though spiritual,  AA from what I've heard is a but more towards the religious side but that's totally cool too. Yeah my sponsor is 68 I'm just under 37 and we get along amazing and a good sponsor will never tell you what to do, they'll suggest stuff as it's says in our literature 'our leaders our but trusted servants they do not govern" or "for the group purpose there's but 1 ultimate Authority,  a loving God as they may express themselves in our group conscious" and a higher power is up to the individual. 

But yeah I couldn't do it alone,  trying to do it alone os what led me back on benzos cuz I figured I had the addiction thing licked after rehab,  so stopped going to meetings got back into a co dependent relationship and slowly but surely led to relapse,.

Why now I know I can't do this alone. I made it to 1.5mgs last August but had a mental breakdown and back into a psych ward and was put back up to 2mgs cuz I wasn't coping, now I make it to 1.25mgs the lowest I've been on in over 11 years and although even today feeling alot more crappy  then yesterday,  I have friends checking on me or just asking how I'm doing,  my sponsor is a shout away any time of the day or night and he's a 3 minute drive away from me and that's in a big city too. So yeah just feeling that support and knowing I'm not alone has made a huge difference in this process.

I started AA when I was 35, just about your age   My biggest issue wasn't giving up alcohol, it was easy, but at 3 months of sobriety I was pursued by a very attractive "guru" and fell madly in love with him.  I had no experience with the 13th step, lol, and he had really only a bit over a couple years in AA himself.  He was a good match for me in many ways, taught me a lot about AA itself and how to grow in the program.  He had a hard time dealing/accepting some of my issues, got violent with me so I finally left after it happened, too scared of him, moved on. I don't mind a fight, but not fighting fair is not acceptable in any relationship, not for me. 

I got on the benzo 3 years into AA, and didn't know how to cope with "non-fairytale" life, or a marriage. Stupid fairytales should be banned, they sure gave me a false idea of life.

Anyway, I didn't go to that meeting lastnight, I don't know if that's what I need, but I guess I'll find out, maybe stay in denial if that's where I'm at.  I'm getting off this C for sure, but one thing I do know is acceptance is the key to any and all my problems. Feeling better today even though I only slept until 2a.m.  Catch a nap later maybe.

1 hour ago, [[C...] said:

I can say today was definitely alot harder then yesterday,  the anxiety ramped up pretty good,  but it calmed down when I took mu night dose and my gabapentin and my mirtazapine I also take propranolol for palpitations. Ughh been put on a couple meds to help get off this one, but at least they're alot less nefarious then benzos.

Might see about doing smaller cuts more frequently instead of the .25mg cuts every 8 weeks. That or see if I can do titration through compounding or something,  if I can get it in liquid form. Cuz yeah once I get to 1mg cutting down .25 will he 25% then 33% then 50% then 100% its a bit much to think about but one day at a time. I'm doing ok but yeah this one definitely hit hard, had opioid like withdrawal symptoms today. But it's still not as bad as doing cold turkey  that's for sure, but part of me wishes I had a facility to go to and to a cold turkey again and just get through it and off finally.  Going on since April 2019 now when I started this whole tapering thing, 22mgs in 11 months off the bat, then held for 2 years then to 1.5mgs as of last August thrn back to 2mgs in December since then down .75mg to 1.25mgs now crazy to think I did 22mgs in the same time it's gonna take me to do this last 1.25mgs 😔

I'm glad you got some rest but I can't say enough about a slow taper.  25% nearly killed me taken off my 1mg, but I do understand higher doses are easier to take bigger tapers off.  Like they tell me, listen to my body, and it does guide me pretty well, mostly with the anxiety levels.  I shelter myself, or protect, myself, from outside sources that literally make my body shake.  I had that happen 3 times lately over the panic in this building over the fires/power outages.  That didn't tell me I need more clonazepam, but it did remind me of my need to learn how to cope with life's issues in different ways than the C, grateful for that.

Learning about the "tolerance wd" has made a huge impression on me and I hope to never get hooked on anything again.  Seems to be only 2 choices, stay on growing-dosages of something, or spend maybe years recovering/healing from it.

[[Co...]]

17 hours ago, [[o...] said:

I started AA when I was 35, just about your age   My biggest issue wasn't giving up alcohol, it was easy, but at 3 months of sobriety I was pursued by a very attractive "guru" and fell madly in love with him.  I had no experience with the 13th step, lol, and he had really only a bit over a couple years in AA himself.  He was a good match for me in many ways, taught me a lot about AA itself and how to grow in the program.  He had a hard time dealing/accepting some of my issues, got violent with me so I finally left after it happened, too scared of him, moved on. I don't mind a fight, but not fighting fair is not acceptable in any relationship, not for me. 

I got on the benzo 3 years into AA, and didn't know how to cope with "non-fairytale" life, or a marriage. Stupid fairytales should be banned, they sure gave me a false idea of life.

Anyway, I didn't go to that meeting lastnight, I don't know if that's what I need, but I guess I'll find out, maybe stay in denial if that's where I'm at.  I'm getting off this C for sure, but one thing I do know is acceptance is the key to any and all my problems. Feeling better today even though I only slept until 2a.m.  Catch a nap later maybe.

I'm glad you got some rest but I can't say enough about a slow taper.  25% nearly killed me taken off my 1mg, but I do understand higher doses are easier to take bigger tapers off.  Like they tell me, listen to my body, and it does guide me pretty well, mostly with the anxiety levels.  I shelter myself, or protect, myself, from outside sources that literally make my body shake.  I had that happen 3 times lately over the panic in this building over the fires/power outages.  That didn't tell me I need more clonazepam, but it did remind me of my need to learn how to cope with life's issues in different ways than the C, grateful for that.

Learning about the "tolerance wd" has made a huge impression on me and I hope to never get hooked on anything again.  Seems to be only 2 choices, stay on growing-dosages of something, or spend maybe years recovering/healing from it.

Benzos are the only thing I've been addicted to (and I've been addicted to a number of substance) that have tolerance withdrawal, when I was using illicit opioids of course I'd use more to try to get that 1st high again but if I used 40mgs of oxy I'd be ok. Same with methadone but that shouldn't be surprising cuz it's just a  fully synthetic opioid, but yeah I've had tolerance withdrawal from benzos not only when I kept increasing my dose throughout the years and now in tapering,  even when held at 2mgs for 2 years between 2020 and 2022 I still had withdrawal symptoms, not as bad as full blown withdrawals or tapering withdrawal but still there none the less. Benzos are crazy like that  now that being said I definitely don't suggest getting hooked on substances that don't have tolerance withdrawals. Alcohol is another one that has tolerance withdrawal but again no surprise there cuz benzos are basically alcohol in pill form and barbiturates but they very very rarely prescribe those any as benzos are considered "more safe"

[Guest [...]]

On 24/08/2023 at 08:45, [[C...] said:

Yeah it'll be something I talk to my prescribing Dr about,  I'm actually now at 1.25mgs I was at 1.5 I just went down .25mgs again on Tuesday, I feel off but it's not terrible. I did kinda mention the 10% thing to him when I last saw him but I am also doing those cuts every 2 months to give myself alot of time to adjust as much as possible, I was chatting with someone last night that said they did the micro water taper, I'd have to look into that, or do small dry cutting possibly. I mean yeah this last drop was around a 16.25% drop, and it'll be a 20% drop next time if I do .25mgs again. Although even though it is tough I kinda also just want this to be done with.. even doing a .25mg cut every 2 months I'd still be looking at another 10 months so roughly June next year to be off totally unless I jump at .5mgs or something. It's alot to think about especially taking it 1 day at a time. But as if today after already 30+ hours since my dose cut my anxiety isn't that bad it's more physical symptoms like mild opioid withdrawal feeling surprisingly my anxiety is pretty alright. Although it seems each drop has been a bit different in terms of which symptoms hit harder or are more intense. If I had a detox in this city that'd hold me as long as I needed I'd probably just do a cold turkey again, but unfortunately there's none here in my city I live in unlike back east in Toronto where there were many and held you as long as needed. Even though my city now is almost 1.5 million ppl there's 1 medical detox with 40 male beds and usually only keep you 7 days give or take depending on severity of symptoms,  such a conservative province I live in.

But yeah, my dr that's doing the prescribing now is not the one who put me on that insane dose of 24mgs a day and he is an addiction specialist I think I mentioned as he works in the clinic where I get my sublocade injections (subcutaneous form of suboxone) he did mention one way he does tapering with ppl hooked on barbiturates,  where it was basically they see how many (if any) pills less in a script period they could take less, if that be 1 pill in 14 days or  none so be it, if it's a couple even better,  then he'll tell them to dispose of those leftovers. I'm pretty strong willed right now but I dunno if that'd really work with me, although I did my last drop before this one when I picked up my script for 14 days get 10 extra .5mg pills the pharmacy mis counted and in all my years of using lol it had to happen when sober and trying to get off this crap, I had a major devil on my shoulder,  but I immediately called my sponsor and told him and we met later that day and I disposed of them.

Anyway sorry for ranting, had a hard time sleeping last night so took Melatonin,  took 10mgs to finally get to sleep but man I stayed asleep way to long but better then not sleeping I suppose especially when I need to heal.

If you notice your symptoms (post reduction) are becoming too intense, you can reassess…. think about reducing by a smaller amount more often, rather than being hit by one huge reduction percentage. Also, just keep in mind that your reduction percentage is now increasing astronomically with each cut of 0.25, so be careful that you don’t crash and go into acute withdrawal. It can be extremely painful, both mentally and physically, and I wouldn’t want to see this happen after you coming so far… You want to try and avoid crashing to the point where you aren’t sleeping at all, among all the other potential symptoms. 

Best wishes with the remainder of your taper. 

WS 

[[Co...]]

4 hours ago, [[W...] said:

If you notice your symptoms (post reduction) are becoming too intense, you can reassess…. think about reducing by a smaller amount more often, rather than being hit by one huge reduction percentage. Also, just keep in mind that your reduction percentage is now increasing astronomically with each cut of 0.25, so be careful that you don’t crash and go into acute withdrawal. It can be extremely painful, both mentally and physically, and I wouldn’t want to see this happen after you coming so far… You want to try and avoid crashing to the point where you aren’t sleeping at all, among all the other potential symptoms. 

Best wishes with the remainder of your taper. 

WS 

Yeah it's something I'm definitely gonna discuss with my prescribing Dr next time, I mean the symptoms aren't to bad, same as usual,  mild opioid like physical symptoms, some increased anxiety and some insomnia. And yeah I know all about bad acute withdrawal, I did cold turkey off 5mgs in 2007 that was 30 odd days of pure hell then 3 months of post acute withdrawal. Although part of me wouldn't mind doing that again and having done with it, but I think I'd have a much harder time as I wasn't on to long at that point and I didn't get up to 24mgs like I did this time since getting back on kpin in 2009, cuz yeah if I drop .25 again it'll be 20% then 25% then a ⅓ then 50%, once I adjust this time I may see about taking off 10% every 2 weeks instead of .25mgs every 8 weeks, just dunno how that'd be done. The .25mg pills are so small and trying to figure out how much to cut off a pill to make it 1.125mgs 🙃 that or I just shave some off, I really don't know and I've tried to switch to Valium in the past but I've gone into withdrawal from it. Kpin is alot stronger and the conversion tables I find are low. In my experience .5mg of clonazepam is= 10mg of Valium but in the Ashton manual it says .5=5mgs. Sigh 😕  kinda why I wish I had a facility here to just go to and detox and be done with it instead of drawing it out. At times it makes one feel like they're being tortured 

[[or...]]

Wow, that's a lot of mg's difference!  Did you try some other sources to check that chart of Ashton's?  Have you gotten a chance to look into Mark Horowitz info (youtube) on the Hyperbolic Taper?  That one is way interesting to me, but danged if I can figure out some of it so I could actually try it.  I'll put a link below.  If you have the chance @[Co...], would you give me your opinion on it?  Thanks much, Denise PS he has other vids on other things like Anti-depressants as well.  He's "over my head" on some of his info (that's not hard to be with my benzo-brain)

 

[[or...]]

Here's another @[Co...], this one is really confusing for me, it's just he doesn't really explain it in the simpler terms, he tries:

 

[[Co...]]

On 25/08/2023 at 03:47, [[o...] said:

Wow, that's a lot of mg's difference!  Did you try some other sources to check that chart of Ashton's?  Have you gotten a chance to look into Mark Horowitz info (youtube) on the Hyperbolic Taper?  That one is way interesting to me, but danged if I can figure out some of it so I could actually try it.  I'll put a link below.  If you have the chance @[Co...], would you give me your opinion on it?  Thanks much, Denise PS he has other vids on other things like Anti-depressants as well.  He's "over my head" on some of his info (that's not hard to be with my benzo-brain)

So thr hyperbolic is referring to the hyperbola curve of the dose, so as it showed at higher doses you can cut alot more off and the patient will be ok, not so much at mid to lower doses. I can attest to that as when I 1st agreed to taper off 24mgs I was taken right away to 17.5mgs I think so 6.5mgs was taken off right away and I was ok. I kept taking off 2mgs a week until I hit 11mgs I think or 11.5 or something then withdrawal hit hard, so it was held for a couple weeks then I was put on -1mg every week until I hit 6mgs and withdrawal hit very bad again was put up to 6.5mgs to adjust then I went down .5mgs every 2 weeks until I hit 2mgs (with a few pauses for a week or 2 here and there) 

 

So now according to this I the lower the dose the more sensitive you'll be to cuts if done not according to they hyperbola and adjusting for that you could be putting yourself at risk for bad acute withdrawal. I mean my last cut was around 17% if my dose next time if I continue doing .25mgs it'll be 20% then ⅓ then 50% then 100% the thing is though if one keeps reducing at 10% you'll never get off cuz you could just potentially keep reducing 10% until your into crazy decimal points but I guess that's when ppl just jump.

 

I may have to slow the amount I cut in terms of % but so far I'm not having severe withdrawal symptoms, just ones I'm always used to, the palpitations, increased anxiety, sweating, headaches tinnitus insomnia and some mild opioid withdrawal like symptoms but they're already getting better and I decreased 6 days ago. That may change next time I drop I dunno but if I can keep going the way I am and be ok ill keep doing it, and my dr is ok to if I need put me back up .25mgs and re assess although I'm trying to avoid that. It may come to me doing some dry cuts off pills or filing off some etc but yeah I've done the cold turkey thing and I survived that in the past although it was extremely painful at least it was done and over worth after 30 days for the most part, although I was alot younger,  in better shape and I hadn't gotten up to 24mgs as a max dose but having not been on 24mgs now since 2019 I dunno how much that number really defines my current state anymore asuch as it's now im at 1.25mgs 🤷 I do know I'm alot more sensitive to decrease doses, I did a rapid 7 day taper off 2mgs in 2011 and I didn't really start feeling anything that bad until day 6 and I.coulda stayed off them most likely but I had a bad situation going on at home and anxiety got the better of me had a bad anxiety attack went running to my urgent care and they put me back on Ativan which then become clonazepam again then up and up and up... if I had a detox in my city that held for as.long as needed id probably go and do a cold turkey again now and be done with it (maybe lol again I dunno how I'd fare now after getting off and on a couple times and the kindling effect)