Am I paradoxing on 2mg of Klonopin?

[[pe...]]

Four years ago I was brought to a hospital and diagnosed with a severe case of Hallucinogenic Persisting Perception Disorder. I was put on 1mg of Klonopin 3 times a day for four years. The symptoms the Klonopin was treating are extreme head pressure, depersonalization, visual snow, and brain fog/confusion. Everything was going very smoothly, until my psychiatric practice wanted to try tapering me off the med because they thought it wasn't benefitting me anymore. I felt I was at a loss. I couldn't argue with them. So I agreed to the taper. Tapering on the higher doses every two weeks, like from 3 to 2.5, 2.5 to 2 was easy. Then things got tricky. Going down to 1.5 was fine, but then we made the jump from 1.5 to 1 and I was having some trouble so my psychiatrist let me go up to 1.25 for longer then two weeks. Probably by week three and a half, I started noticing some abnormalities; the visual snow was getting worse, the head pressure felt like it was coming back. I was told by my PCP if I noticed signs of my HPPD coming back I had to let them know, so I did. Unfortunately, as I was trying to get help, my psychiatrist suddenly left the practice during all of this and things got a little confusing. Before she left, she put me on a dose of 1.5 instead of 1.25, and I noticed it helped a bit with a lot of my symptoms, but when I would take the doses of .75mg, my head felt all this pressure built up, most specifically in my forehead, in my temples and in my ears (almost as if my ears needed to pop but couldn't). Also my jaw was tightening. I just thought I was withdrawing and needed more Klonopin. I met with my new psychiatrist and he was open to increasing my dose to 2mg, but when I would take each 1mg tablet, the sensations I just described were even worse; however, my anxiety was better, my depersonalization was better, the visual snow was better. Even now I keep asking myself, how can this be? But I realized these 1mg tablets were still just making my head feel lousy. So what I've been doing now is cutting them in half and taking .5mg every 5hrs during the day and it is keeping these terrible sensations at bay. Am I paradoxing? I am so scared because what I've learned from the taper process is without Klonopin I am a mess and now by taking it I am something of a mess, though not as bad I would say. Does anyone have any advice or insight? 

 

 

[[je...]]

Hi @[pe...]

Welcome to BenzoBuddies!

Gosh, these drugs really do a number on us don't they! And the worst part is trying to understand what is causing the symptoms. From your brief description it sounds like your problems might have something to do with interdose withdrawal since taking your pills more often seems to alleviate the worst of it. How many times a day are you dosing the 0.5mg now - is it four times a day? And how long have you been on this dosing schedule?

I am so sorry this is happening to you. I hope together with our community we can figure out what is happening. Thanks for reaching out, we're glad you're here. 

[[pe...]]

Thanks so much for responding to me. It could be interdose withdrawal, but I just can't figure out why when I take the Klonopin after it really kicks in, maybe after an hour, I normally start to feel worse - specifically a pressure in my forehead, in my temples and a tightening in my jaw. I just started dosing four times a day at .5mg yesterday. Finding better relief than dosing twice a day at 1mg. What I am noticing is the dose of 1mg seems to overwhelm my head and doesn't give me relief like it used to.  

 

 

[[je...]]

I'm so glad you've experimented and found something that works a bit better. I don't fully grasp the concept of paradox reactions. Many people here talk about it and I know it happens, I just don't fully understand it other than taking the pill is causing the symptoms. So yes it could be that. I do think if smaller doses work for you, then that's the way to go. It's probably best to give your new dosing routine two weeks or so just to see how your body is adapting to it and then decide on a way forward. 

[[pe...]]

Thanks so much for the support. I can't say the new dosing system is working perfectly. I have my major anxieties. Obviously I wish I could quit this med, but HPPD is highly debilitating and I am a bit devastated the Klonopin is not working as well as it used to because it's the best treatment for severe cases. I have had consultations with a specialist in this field and he agrees. I will definitely give it more time. I'm finding benzos are very mysterious. Also I don't fully understand what paradoxing is either, which is why I'm reaching out, so you're not alone there. 

[[je...]]

You are right, benzo's are a total mystery. The problem with benzo's is they work until they don't. Then they turn on you with a vengeance. I started experiencing symptoms I never had while I was 'happily' on Klonopin. My memory became really impaired, I struggled with insomnia and I got anxiety. I never knew it was the benzo causing this. I do understand in some cases it's worth it to improve the quality of life, I totally get it. The biggest problem in my opinion is, you just don't know if you'll get tolerant. And I feel so bad when people are already struggling with a debilitating illness and then have to deal with benzo issues on top of that.

If you use the search function, top right, you can find more info and other threads on paradoxing.

[[pe...]]

I'm so sorry to hear that. I was aggressively told the same thing by a Dr in the psyche ward - that the benzos will work until they don't. I fear he was correct. I am considering trying another taper after consulting with the Dr who specializes in HPPD. What's hard is the symptoms of HPPD mirror benzo withdrawal symptoms so I am literally terrified. I know I'm not the only one who is in a terrifying situation but when I read about head pressure, I wonder to myself, is it going to be the head pressure I was experiencing before being on klonopin or a withdrawal symptom that will go away? 

[[pe...]]

Okay so I woke up this morning and noticed the symptoms of forehead pressure, temple pressure and jaw tightness were more pronounced than when I take it. Prob a sign of some interdose withdrawal. Def wondering now if my brain became so damaged by the tapering process that it needs more time to heal from the trauma. 

[[je...]]

Well, that's interesting. I suggest you keep a daily diary and record the times and severity of your symptoms in order to track it. If you do this for a couple of weeks on your new dosing schedule I'm hopeful we can see a clear pattern emerging to help us determine what the cause is.

[[Li...]]

Hello, @[pe...].  Jelly baby has made an excellent suggestion - keep a diary (I suggest hour-by-hour) of the times you take the Klonopin and the nature and severity of your symptoms.  

Are you taking any other medications or supplements in addition to the Klonopin?  If so, I suggest you include the times you take those substances in your diary as well.

 

[[pe...]]

Today my neurologist informed me via the portal system that my symptoms align with tension headaches, which is a form of a migraine. I have chronic migraines and am heavily treated for them (prophylactics, PRNs, Botox, infusion s) so he was not surprised. He said of my symptoms don't improve we can try prednisone, which I have responded to well in the past. I am just so unfamiliar with tension headaches that I don't know if it will work and am a bit scared. I have started a log today of my symtomology and will track it for a while. Thanks for the help. 

[[Gl...]]

2 hours ago, [[p...] said:

Today my neurologist informed me via the portal system that my symptoms align with tension headaches, which is a form of a migraine. I have chronic migraines and am heavily treated for them (prophylactics, PRNs, Botox, infusion s) so he was not surprised. He said of my symptoms don't improve we can try prednisone, which I have responded to well in the past. I am just so unfamiliar with tension headaches that I don't know if it will work and am a bit scared. I have started a log today of my symtomology and will track it for a while. Thanks for the help. 

I'm sorry, peakyb!  Migraines are hard to live with, and I feel for you.  I have chronic migraines too and probably average 3 migraine days weekly, but feel some head pain and pressure most days.

I've tried even small amounts of prednisone, 10 mg, and it kept me awake even though I took it early in the day.  Sumatriptan helps if I don't take it too often, but usually I just stick it out and take nothing.  Botox didn't help me.  I feel your pain and I'm so sorry.  I hope something helps you.

 

[[pe...]]

I'm just quite anxious because this tension headache that I was unaware of began when I was trying to taper off of klonopin and its been around for weeks. I just hope it's not permanent/being made worse by the klonopin for some reason. I'm so sorry you deal with migraines too. A true torture. I feel your pain immensely. I have responded extremely well to botox thank God. When things were going really well for me and my other illnesses they decided to taper the klonopin and a bunch of stuff began to happen so I'm def on a hiatus at least right now. Best of luck to you!

[[pe...]]

@[Gl...] Also, what do you do to soothe the pressure? does it flare up when you get anxious? I'm struggling quite a bit with this symptom right now because it's different than the head pressure I experienced before going on klonopin and won't go away with over the counter analgesics/migraine meds. 

 

[[Gl...]]

 

I feel bad that you are struggling so much with it, and I understand.  When I first started getting them frequently, it upset me so badly, and I would cry and even get illegal pain meds.   

 

The one thing that helped in the past is Excedrin Migraine, although it's loaded with caffeine.  It doesn't really help much now.

 

Since migraines are a part of my life, I've decided to live as if I'm not in pain.  This decision has made the biggest difference. There are people who have migraines every single day, so I feel fortunate to get days off.  

 

As far as head pressure, I can't say I do anything.  I'm just weird in that way now, but in the past years, it really upset me.

 

Sorry I don't have any other remedies.  I feel compassion for you.  Maybe when we are done with benzos, we won't have chronic migraines anymore.  Let's hope!

 

Here is a head pressure thread.  It's long, but hopefully you can find better answers there.

support for those w/ head pressure - Support Groups - BenzoBuddies Community Forum

 

[[pe...]]

Thanks for the support. I too feel the utmost compassion for you as well. Living in pain is truly a terrible thing. I have been experiencing this pressure in my forehead for about a month and I'm sort of hopeful it will go away. But still very scared the Klonopin caused it and I'm stuck with it chronically. I've been waking up in a panic a lot recently. It is weirdly nice to hear that somehow you grit your teeth and deal with it. I hope I have your courage. Thanks for the thread. I only joined this group a couple days ago but I'm finding some hope here. We are def not alone. 

[[Gl...]]

Thank you, @[pe...] for your understanding.  Head pressure seems to be a very common benzo symptom, so you're right, we are not alone.  But at least we can count on it going away someday when we're all done with benzos.  I feel pretty certain anyway. 🙂 

Welcome to BB. I'm glad you joined!  See you around!

[[So...]]

Hi @[pe...] I jut wanted to let you know i was put on klonopin for HPPD as well & i have heard people healing while having HPPD.  While you may have the HPPD still after off klonopin, I find it gets easier to deal with in time & you stop caring about it.  I have had it for 7 years now & the parabolas & snowy vision do not really scare me anymore.  

 

You may notice your HPPD symptoms becoming worse during withdrawal as klonopin withdrawal can cause anxiety & visual issues as well.  This should return to normal levels when you are done with wd.  Avoid hallucinogens in your recovery, this probably goes without saying but I know many people advocate for them on here but just treat it as an allergy or something, we just can not do that.

 

It is also highly infuriating that the drug they put us on to treat this has such horrific withdrawals sometimes & can stop working after time for people.. also there is no informed consent with it.  I wish I would have just treated my hppd with therepy & meditation but having the klonopin treat it was nice while it lasted.

 

Much peace & love to you whether you decide to come off the klonopin fully or stay on!  Always remember too that HPPD can not hurt us & you will become more use to it in time & it almost always significantly gets better, even if it does not go away.  

I'm here for you if you need anything

[[pe...]]

@[So...]That's comforting to know someone else on here was put on klonopin for HPPD. My symptoms were very severe. The most severe of all was this all encompassing head pressure before I was even on klonopin; so now I'm literally petrified of the withdrawal symptoms of klonopin because I know head pressure is one of them. I'm already dealing with it right now, some kind of strange tension headache that won't go away even on 2mg of klonopin. I have gotten used to the visuals but the head pressure and depersonilization are extremely difficult symptoms. Did you experience anything like this before klonopin / during withdrawal / protracted ?

[[pe...]]

Realized when I get to the end of the day and I take my last dose my mind is very stimulated. Klonopin didn't use to do this to me. I'm very frustrated but mostly scared. Has anything like this ever happened to anyone? 

[[Gl...]]

2 hours ago, [[p...] said:

Realized when I get to the end of the day and I take my last dose my mind is very stimulated. Klonopin didn't use to do this to me. I'm very frustrated but mostly scared. Has anything like this ever happened to anyone? 

@[pe...] I'm not surprised that you get anxiety from your Klonopin dose.  Many or most of us here are getting the opposite effects from benzos than we expected in general.   When I take either of my Klonopin doses, I don't feel anything at all.  But I build up a tolerance to everything immediately.  I'm sorry for your frustration and fear.  Hopefully you'll settle in and be okay with it all for now.  You are not alone.😊

[[pe...]]

@[Gl...] interesting. I am definitely struggling during the day but by the end of the day my head feels like it wants to explode. I feel like I need to find a dose that doesn't do this. My dose right now might be too strong with these opposite effects happening. I appreciate the supportive words 

[[So...]]

@[pe...] yes I had severe HPPD symptoms too.  No head pressure but I had severe depression, 24/7 panic attacks, dpdr bad, & visuals.  I was suicidal & begged to be taken to a psych ward.  I thought I was losing my mind.  It all got better around 6 months from the trip & then some stuff has stuck around.  I have ptsd from it & living thru klonopin withdrawal is really bringing it back to life.  I know I have to do this tho since the klonopin started to make me sick.  It is your choice what to do- I just wanted to let you know it is possible bcuz I am doing it right now ❤️

[[pe...]]

@[So...] this post gives me so much hope. Klonopin may be turning on me right now so I may be in the same boat as you soon. I'm giving it some time before I choose what to do. Thank you so much for responding. Keep in touch please. If you need anything tag me. 

[[So...]]

I am glad that I could give you some hope ❤️ I won't lie to you & say it will be easy at all.  Hell, I had one failed attempt so far & reinstated at 2.5 months off like an idiot.  But you CAN get thru it. I am three weeks into no benzos again & i know it will be SO worth it one day.  One piece of advice I wish I could go back & give myself is you can hold but do not turn back & updose/reinstate bcuz it does not always work the way we'd imagine like with typical drug wd.

 

If you need anything tag me as well!  Take all the time you need!  I took 3 years to wean down the first time.  No need to rush!