The Long Hold Support Group

[[Va...]]

thanks  Lizagal and VallyUm and all buddies,

 

Today my jelly legs are much worse than yesterday. I can hardly walk around the house.

My neck  is weak, my lower back is weak, and now my legs are absolutely almost useless.

 

I had lumbar back surgery last December, and I know I have spinal stenosis in my neck too.

 

I am praying that these symptoms are truly benzo  withdrawal. I am scared that they may be related to my spinal issues. I don't want to go back to see the surgeon, but maybe a check up and description of what's going on is in order.  Maybe it will ease my mind? I guess I am afraid of getting worse news.

 

Since so many people have had jelly legs, I am hoping it is the Benzos, but am I fooling myself? Am I being an alarmist?

 

Heath

 

Oh also, anyone who is micro tapering I am micro tapering and holding. I started micro tapering about two months with .01 daily for five days. After .05 total, I stopped to see what would happen. When the wfx started, I held. I'm still holding now, I wanted to cut again, but with these wfx, no way!

 

Anyone who can micro taper and keep going every day........all power to you! It would crash me for sure!

 

I am committed to holding until these wfx ease up.... But they just keep getting worse..and new ones keep coming.

I'm wondering about what is said about sometimes a small cut will get rid of a bad wfx.  Any opinions on that?

 

Thanks, Heath

 

Oops sorry, I don't know how all of that got into bold print. Can't seem to get it off!

If it gets too bad Heath you can always up dose slightly and reduce your cut rate. I have built in holds for my micro taper. I'll cut for 5 days and hold for at least 2 or more if I feel like it. I've managed to have close to zero sxs this way but I'm cutting really slow.  --V

[[...]]

thanks  Lizagal and VallyUm and all buddies,

 

Today my jelly legs are much worse than yesterday. I can hardly walk around the house.

My neck  is weak, my lower back is weak, and now my legs are absolutely almost useless.

 

I had lumbar back surgery last December, and I know I have spinal stenosis in my neck too.

 

I am praying that these symptoms are truly benzo  withdrawal. I am scared that they may be related to my spinal issues. I don't want to go back to see the surgeon, but maybe a check up and description of what's going on is in order.  Maybe it will ease my mind? I guess I am afraid of getting worse news.

 

Since so many people have had jelly legs, I am hoping it is the Benzos, but am I fooling myself? Am I being an alarmist?

 

Heath

 

 

 

 

Oh also, anyone who is micro tapering I am micro tapering and holding. I started micro tapering about two months with .01 daily for five days. After .05 total, I stopped to see what would happen. When the wfx started, I held. I'm still holding now, I wanted to cut again, but with these wfx, no way!

 

Anyone who can micro taper and keep going every day........all power to you! It would crash me for sure!

 

I am committed to holding until these wfx ease up.... But they just keep getting worse..and new ones keep coming.

I'm wondering about what is said about sometimes a small cut will get rid of a bad wfx.  Any opinions on that?

 

Thanks, Heath

 

Oops sorry, I don't know how all of that got into bold print. Can't seem to get it off!

 

 

I'm so sorry Heathcliff ..... I'm with you .... This is  nearly 3 weeks of holding for me and I feel worse the last two days than I have in a while, can barely walk , my legs feel numb. I'm sure it's WD symptoms and jelly legs are common symptom.

I just feel horrible and scared .....also terrible burning stomach and back like I'm on fire...... Makes me want to cut! But I don't think that's the right thing to do........ :'(

 

 

[[...]]

Sorry Heath, my response came out inside the quote , don't know why..... MiYu

[[ly...]]

 

 

Heath,

 

I think the jelly legs are probably wd but you may want to get it checked out so you won't worry.  I've had jelly legs and swaying.  I think most of us have.

 

I'm kind of confused at this point as to how long you have been holding at 1.2

 

MiYu,

 

I hope things start improving.  3 wks is not really that long.  It's really a difficult thing when things are not linear.  Earlier this year I had a new symptom come on 5 wks into my hold.  It's lower legs and feet vibration/weirdness.  It goes up on cuts and then back down but has never totally gone away. That and the tinnitus seem to be here for the duration and I think they will be around for some time after I am totally off.  Just hoping there won't be a whole lot more.

[[He...]]

Lynne

Sorry, I guess my signature is kind of confusing because of the time I was incorrectly measuring my dose.

I was holding  at 1.25  for  two months, May 29 to July 22

 

July 22 -I started micro taper down to what I THOUGHT was  1.2.

 

But on Aug 18 I realized I was not measuring with the oral syringe properly.

 

I was actually at 1.28. I had up dosed  without realizing  it...SO DUMB! ( I was measuring the dose right up to the tip of the point of the syringe when I should have been only going up to the black line. It was an extra .04 mg x 2 doses which made it .08 mg more than it should have been.

 

So I corrected  my measuring by cutting that .08 mg to bring it down to 1.2 on August 18

 

So IN REALITY , I've been holding for only about three weeks at 1.2mg

 

Hope that makes sense. I know I have to hold a lot longer, of course, but I was really scared when the new wfx came out of no where.

 

Thanks for the suggestion about the doctor. I think I will go get a check-up just to put my mind at ease.

 

Heath

 

[[He...]]

MiYu,

 

I am at about three weeks and holding too.

 

Jelly legs, tinnitus, neck and lower back muscle weakness too.

Sickish and exhausted.

 

Seems like we are at similar places .

 

I am quite miserable but I too am committed to holding ( although I want to cut  but I wont) I want to get as close to stablizing as I can before I cut again.

 

Hope we both have better days tomorrow!

Heath

[[no...]]

Hi V Hee'rs a typical example of why I think its good to look back at what you posted or noted else where. I said earlier I'm now at day 9 of my hold, I just checked its actually day 11 The other thing I'm doing is trying to keep 2 daily journals as I tend to go writing a lot at  some times and it makes it hard to try fathom what I was doing, feeling, if there were any triggers or not etc day to day. So I keep one as brief as possible so the information I want to look for isn't hidden in a big Journaling session

 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

First I want to apologize to anyone I haven't gotten back to.... Please give me some time as I have been overtaxed lately I appreciate all of you...

 

Nova... Please help me understand ...... I know microtapering is daily and cut and hold is just what it says... But I am confused..... was it the method of daily tapering that messed you up and or is it because you were using liquid?  do you still use liquid or are you back to pills?

 

Sorry for my questions.....  

Hi PBH I'm not sure what was the absolute reason but believe it was going from pills to liquids as for years I had always done what called ''Cut and hold'' on here instinctively, by cutting bits off of pills of all families Benzos included and held until symptoms had gone or wer bearable without change for a while.

 

After 17moths of being stuck in a rut doing MT I recently went back to pill cutting ''cut and hold''  by weighing 10 pills to get my ''pill average weight' as due to fillers they are different weights but the drug dose is the same irregardless of what the pill weighs. And I am now crushing the pills, 20 at a time in to powder subtracting my cut then weighing the amount left over and putting it in to capsules so I have a batch ready in advance and don't have to mes around daily getting in a state all the time as its stressful.

 

Daily cutting was making me a headless Chicken and paranoid I was doing it wrong all the time as I'm mentally fragile and in a lot of severe pain, but so far able to do the basics to survive as I live alone with no contact from anyone or help  . I did this posts here to show how to encapsulate the powder so others won't have to panic like I did 

HOW TO PUT CRUSHED PILLS/ POWDER INTO CAPSULES WITH PICS http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=164695.msg2193772#msg2193772

 

 

 

And I'm repeating my previous advice about advice as I really believe it will help as ultimately no matter what we all have to make our own decisions about what we do next or don't do  And that is....

 

'''The best advice I can give anyone right now is to do the same check ALL your previous  post, every thread you ever posted on you'll be surprised what you can dig up that way notes whenever you can lay your hands on and see if you can see any sort of pattern at all. And make notes of the day, year, and months  even if is brief  for example ''March 10 2016 crap''  ''March 12 'felt okay'''  June 11th ''bad ay'' 'June 12th great; day'' and so on and see what you did  and how you were doing at the. In my case ''Seek and ye' shall find'' was very helpful, I'm sure it will help lots of others to do this too.'' 

 

 

 

I will no doubt be repeating this a lot 

 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[li...]]

Nova did you do any holds throughout your MT or did you just keep tapering everyday?  I'm wondering if that's why I crashed. I assumed if I was making such small cuts that I shouldn't have to hold but it caught up with me

[[...]]

 

 

Heath,

 

I think the jelly legs are probably wd but you may want to get it checked out so you won't worry.  I've had jelly legs and swaying.  I think most of us have.

 

I'm kind of confused at this point as to how long you have been holding at 1.2

 

MiYu,

 

I hope things start improving.  3 wks is not really that long.  It's really a difficult thing when things are not linear.  Earlier this year I had a new symptom come on 5 wks into my hold.  It's lower legs and feet vibration/weirdness.  It goes up on cuts and then back down but has never totally gone away. That and the tinnitus seem to be here for the duration and I think they will be around for some time after I am totally off.  Just hoping there won't be a whole lot more.

 

 

Thanks Lynn......yes , I know 3 weeks isn't long to hold .....I'll continue for now. I thought so early on in my taper it would be easier, but I think like Valley Um said its caught up with me from kind of being all over the place with the benzos before I crossed to V , and I don't think I ever really stabilized.

Does anyone feel worse some times after they take their dose? I notice I get tinnitus after I take the V dose, then it goes away. I hypothesize that the V initially downregulates the GABA receptors and the glutamine goes up for a while to try and balance out . I wish I was lower in dose , maybe the counter symptoms would stop.... Well, we all wish we were lower in dose eh? Like OFF! 

 

Heathcliff .... I still have weak legs and pain in my knees now, they feel inflamed, and headache which I never get. If you do get your legs tested let us know the results will you? 

[[He...]]

thanks  Lizagal and VallyUm and all buddies,

 

Today my jelly legs are much worse than yesterday. I can hardly walk around the house.

My neck  is weak, my lower back is weak, and now my legs are absolutely almost useless.

 

I had lumbar back surgery last December, and I know I have spinal stenosis in my neck too.

 

I am praying that these symptoms are truly benzo  withdrawal. I am scared that they may be related to my spinal issues. I don't want to go back to see the surgeon, but maybe a check up and description of what's going on is in order.  Maybe it will ease my mind? I guess I am afraid of getting worse news.

 

Since so many people have had jelly legs, I am hoping it is the Benzos, but am I fooling myself? Am I being an alarmist?

 

Heath

 

Oh also, anyone who is micro tapering I am micro tapering and holding. I started micro tapering about two months with .01 daily for five days. After .05 total, I stopped to see what would happen. When the wfx started, I held. I'm still holding now, I wanted to cut again, but with these wfx, no way!

 

Anyone who can micro taper and keep going every day........all power to you! It would crash me for sure!

 

I am committed to holding until these wfx ease up.... But they just keep getting worse..and new ones keep coming.

I'm wondering about what is said about sometimes a small cut will get rid of a bad wfx.  Any opinions on that?

 

Thanks, Heath

 

Oops sorry, I don't know how all of that got into bold print. Can't seem to get it off!

 

 

If it gets too bad Heath you can always up dose slightly and reduce your cut rate. I have built in holds for my micro taper. I'll cut for 5 days and hold for at least 2 or more if I feel like it. I've managed to have close to zero sxs this way but I'm cutting really slow.  --V

 

Vallyum. 

How many mg do you cut in your micro taper each time?

 

I 0nly cut .01 but I do it for five days to equal .05.  Then I hold.  Does that sound like too much of a cut?

I know everyone is different but just thought I'd get you opinion.

 

Also

 

I had held for two months bec I needed to let my CNS catch up to a previous too fast taper. But looking back, it has been a good 7 months since I started my taper from 7.5 to 1.20.  Shouldn't my CNS be caught up by now?  Geez!

 

Heath

[[He...]]

Update

 

Jelly legs a tiny bit better but still there. Muscle weakness seems to be moving around. Now it's in my buttocks! Still in neck and lower back. Stiff joints if I stay in one position too long.

 

What next?

 

Heath

 

FREEME,

 

I wouldn't BE HESITANT TO GO TO LIQUID V. THATS WHAT I DID WHEN I HAD TO GET A MORE EXACT DOSE. I LIVE IN USA AND I USE ROXANNE LIQUID VALIUM.  I GOT REALLY GOOD INSTRUCTIONS FROM BELLA P HERE ON BB . I BELIEVE BUILDER ALSO GAVE ME SOME HELP. too. But I did it when I got to a very low dose. I don't know about having to mix a big batch every day. Have you thought about using pills and then only using liquid for the part of the dose that is less than a mg so you could get the exact dose. So what I mean is you would combine the use of the pills and the liquid. Someone had suggested that to me at one time.

Like if you were needling to take 10.02 mg, you would take two 5mg pills and .02 liquid.

Does that make sense?

Good luck what ever you decide.

Heath

 

 

MiYu,

 

If I go to the doc and have any tests or any news I'll surely let you know.

 

I hope you are feeling better today.

 

I feel  absolutely  nothing when I take my dose. I even forgot to take it twice and took it about two hours later when I remembered. I believe at the dose I am at it has no therapeutic value at all. I only take it because I can't get off the darn poison yet! Gotta go real slow as you know. I'm with you...I want to be off of it and wish I could just stop...but we all know we can't do that!

 

Heath

 

Oops there goes the bold letters again. Sorry, I have to watch that!

[[He...]]

Nova,

 

I too would like to know how much you cut in your micro taper and how long you held and when you held. I am in the middle of a hold right now but I was having some difficulty with my micro taper. I want to reconsider how I am doing it so maybe I'll get better results.

 

Thanks, Heath

[[Be...]]

Update

 

Jelly legs a tiny bit better but still there. Muscle weakness seems to be moving around. Now it's in my buttocks! Still in neck and lower back. Stiff joints if I stay in one position too long.

 

What next?

 

Heath

 

FREEME,

 

I wouldn't BE HESITANT TO GO TO LIQUID V. THATS WHAT I DID WHEN I HAD TO GET A MORE EXACT DOSE. I LIVE IN USA AND I USE ROXANNE LIQUID VALIUM.  I GOT REALLY GOOD INSTRUCTIONS FROM BELLA P HERE ON BB . I BELIEVE BUILDER ALSO GAVE ME SOME HELP. too. But I did it when I got to a very low dose. I don't know about having to mix a big batch every day. Have you thought about using pills and then only using liquid for the part of the dose that is less than a mg so you could get the exact dose. So what I mean is you would combine the use of the pills and the liquid. Someone had suggested that to me at one time.

Like if you were needling to take 10.02 mg, you would take two 5mg pills and .02 liquid.

Does that make sense?

Good luck what ever you decide.

Heath

 

 

MiYu,

 

If I go to the doc and have any tests or any news I'll surely let you know.

 

I hope you are feeling better today.

 

I feel  absolutely  nothing when I take my dose. I even forgot to take it twice and took it about two hours later when I remembered. I believe at the dose I am at it has no therapeutic value at all. I only take it because I can't get off the darn poison yet! Gotta go real slow as you know. I'm with you...I want to be off of it and wish I could just stop...but we all know we can't do that!

 

Heath

 

Oops there goes the bold letters again. Sorry, I have to watch that!

 

Jelly legs and hard to walk sucks doesnt it?

[[He...]]

Hi  Beatbenzos,

 

You had the jelly legs and hard to walk too? I feel for you kiddo. I can't stand it, and that's no pun!

How long did it last?

Is it gone now?

 

Heath

[[He...]]

Question about liquid Valium storage temperature

 

Pharmacist says room temp.

 

Instructions on script say between 56 and 86 degrees for a short time is ok but ideally it should be at 77 degrees.

 

So if it is about 68 degrees ALL THE TIME, do you think that's ok? That's what my thermostat is set for in the winter.  Should I wrap it in a blanket? LOL just kidding!

 

Has Anyone been using liquid Valium  through the winter months? Does it matter if it gets a bit cold? Does it lose potency?

 

Heath

[[Be...]]

Hi  Beatbenzos,

 

You had the jelly legs and hard to walk too? I feel for you kiddo. I can't stand it, and that's no pun!

How long did it last?

Is it gone now?

 

Heath

 

Its been only a week since I got it and it hasnt really left....that and NO energy

[[Va...]]

 

 

Heath,

 

I think the jelly legs are probably wd but you may want to get it checked out so you won't worry.  I've had jelly legs and swaying.  I think most of us have.

 

I'm kind of confused at this point as to how long you have been holding at 1.2

 

MiYu,

 

I hope things start improving.  3 wks is not really that long.  It's really a difficult thing when things are not linear.  Earlier this year I had a new symptom come on 5 wks into my hold.  It's lower legs and feet vibration/weirdness.  It goes up on cuts and then back down but has never totally gone away. That and the tinnitus seem to be here for the duration and I think they will be around for some time after I am totally off.  Just hoping there won't be a whole lot more.

 

 

Thanks Lynn......yes , I know 3 weeks isn't long to hold .....I'll continue for now. I thought so early on in my taper it would be easier, but I think like Valley Um said its caught up with me from kind of being all over the place with the benzos before I crossed to V , and I don't think I ever really stabilized.

Does anyone feel worse some times after they take their dose? I notice I get tinnitus after I take the V dose, then it goes away. I hypothesize that the V initially downregulates the GABA receptors and the glutamine goes up for a while to try and balance out . I wish I was lower in dose , maybe the counter symptoms would stop.... Well, we all wish we were lower in dose eh? Like OFF! 

 

Heathcliff .... I still have weak legs and pain in my knees now, they feel inflamed, and headache which I never get. If you do get your legs tested let us know the results will you? 

Miyu, I always felt worse after taking my dose during my hold but once I stabilised, I actually feel relaxed when I take it now.  --V

[[Va...]]

thanks  Lizagal and VallyUm and all buddies,

 

Today my jelly legs are much worse than yesterday. I can hardly walk around the house.

My neck  is weak, my lower back is weak, and now my legs are absolutely almost useless.

 

I had lumbar back surgery last December, and I know I have spinal stenosis in my neck too.

 

I am praying that these symptoms are truly benzo  withdrawal. I am scared that they may be related to my spinal issues. I don't want to go back to see the surgeon, but maybe a check up and description of what's going on is in order.  Maybe it will ease my mind? I guess I am afraid of getting worse news.

 

Since so many people have had jelly legs, I am hoping it is the Benzos, but am I fooling myself? Am I being an alarmist?

 

Heath

 

Oh also, anyone who is micro tapering I am micro tapering and holding. I started micro tapering about two months with .01 daily for five days. After .05 total, I stopped to see what would happen. When the wfx started, I held. I'm still holding now, I wanted to cut again, but with these wfx, no way!

 

Anyone who can micro taper and keep going every day........all power to you! It would crash me for sure!

 

I am committed to holding until these wfx ease up.... But they just keep getting worse..and new ones keep coming.

I'm wondering about what is said about sometimes a small cut will get rid of a bad wfx.  Any opinions on that?

 

Thanks, Heath

 

Oops sorry, I don't know how all of that got into bold print. Can't seem to get it off!

 

 

If it gets too bad Heath you can always up dose slightly and reduce your cut rate. I have built in holds for my micro taper. I'll cut for 5 days and hold for at least 2 or more if I feel like it. I've managed to have close to zero sxs this way but I'm cutting really slow.  --V

 

Vallyum. 

How many mg do you cut in your micro taper each time?

 

I 0nly cut .01 but I do it for five days to equal .05.  Then I hold.  Does that sound like too much of a cut?

I know everyone is different but just thought I'd get you opinion.

 

Also

 

I had held for two months bec I needed to let my CNS catch up to a previous too fast taper. But looking back, it has been a good 7 months since I started my taper from 7.5 to 1.20.  Shouldn't my CNS be caught up by now?  Geez!

 

Heath

Hi Heath. If your CNS has been hit hard, it can take quite some time to catch up. It took the full 6 months for me, but others seem to stabilise sooner. In answer to your question, I cut at a rate of .025 for 5 days and hold for 2. If I were in your situation and at the dose you're at, I would most likely try smaller cuts of .005 and see how you do.  You'll get there! --V

[[Va...]]

Question about liquid Valium storage temperature

 

Pharmacist says room temp.

 

Instructions on script say between 56 and 86 degrees for a short time is ok but ideally it should be at 77 degrees.

 

So if it is about 68 degrees ALL THE TIME, do you think that's ok? That's what my thermostat is set for in the winter.  Should I wrap it in a blanket? LOL just kidding!

 

Has Anyone been using liquid Valium  through the winter months? Does it matter if it gets a bit cold? Does it lose potency?

 

Heath

It'll be fine at that temp.  --V

[[He...]]

Question about liquid Valium storage temperature

 

Pharmacist says room temp.

 

Instructions on script say between 56 and 86 degrees for a short time is ok but ideally it should be at 77 degrees.

 

So if it is about 68 degrees ALL THE TIME, do you think that's ok? That's what my thermostat is set for in the winter.  Should I wrap it in a blanket? LOL just kidding!

 

Has Anyone been using liquid Valium  through the winter months? Does it matter if it gets a bit cold? Does it lose potency?

 

Heath

It'll be fine at that temp.  --V

 

Thanks VallyUm

[[He...]]

ValleyUm,

 

Thanks for the advice. I will try it, as soon as I stableize.

 

I Am using a 10:1 solution of Roxanne liquid Valium. I have 10 mg syringes and 1 mg syringes.

 

Using a 10:1 solution, where  is .005 on the 1 mg syringe. Is .005 half of .01?

 

Once I know, I will be able to cut that amount from my dose.

 

if I can't measure such a small amount  I can cut .01 every other day, yes? And hold after 6 days.

 

So I would be cutting .03 and then hold.

 

Just trying to understand.

 

Thanks!  Heath

[[jr...]]

ValleyUm,

 

Thanks for the advice. I will try it, as soon as I stableize.

 

I Am using a 10:1 solution of Roxanne liquid Valium. I have 10 mg syringes and 1 mg syringes.

 

Using a 10:1 solution, where  is .005 on the 1 mg syringe. Is .005 half of .01?

 

Once I know, I will be able to cut that amount from my dose.

 

if I can't measure such a small amount  I can cut .01 every other day, yes? And hold after 6 days.

 

So I would be cutting .03 and then hold.

 

Just trying to understand.

 

Thanks!  Heath

 

If your 1ML syringe has 100 marks then one mark = .01ml and half way between 2 marks = .005ml

[[no...]]

http://bataid.org/wp-content/themes/bat-aid-child/images/logo.png

 

 

Hi all  The above long running well known service recommend  holding a LEAST 3 weeks after each cut, as a normal hold, 3 weeks is NOT a long hold, its a normal time lapse between cuts....

 

 

 

There should be a gap of AT LEAST three weeks between cuts. The British National Formulary (link to ‘from the BNF’ document) (BNF) says withdrawals can take up to three weeks to hit from a long acting benzo. Even if you are aiming to cut every three weeks be very sure, when the date arrives, that you are ready. If not, wait until you are.

 

http://bataid.org/faqs/

 

 

 

And unfortunately most of us, I am one  will get more kicks up the arse than kisses on the cheeks ( no, not the arse cheeks ya' face ) during our journey. Its arduous but many have done it successfully before us, and as bad as we may think we are going thorough it, we're not suffering in isolation its hard for practically everyone with a small minority of exceptions.

 

I Have many days and many times through out the day when I think I can't do this no more, or I'm not going to make it and be stuck on this poison trying to get off forever. Especially  after over 10 years in severe tolerance withdrawal on my prescribed dose all the time with symptoms that are recognised as acute withdrawal when people jump and get worsening symptoms which I thought wasn't possible during my taper. 

 

And the last 19 months on a taper so slow I practically came to a stand still suffering mentally and physically  most for time and ever more bizarre stuff happening with no warning or visible  or logical reason except for that's the way it's going for me at any given moment.  But I'm still here, and so is everyone else  although we all sometimes think we're not going to survive another second, but we do and one day all this will be over. 

 

 

 

‘Getting over’ withdrawal from Benzos is NOT like getting over the flu, where you feel a little bit better each day. It darts around in a totally unpredictable way. Don’t let this worry you – this really is the way it happens.

 

http://bataid.org/faqs/

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[ly...]]

 

 

Thank you for this Nova.  I hope you are doing better and seeing some improvement.

[[ca...]]

Getting over’ withdrawal from Benzos is NOT like getting over the flu, where you feel a little bit better each day. It darts around in a totally unpredictable way. Don’t let this worry you – this really is the way it happens ~ So So important we realize this it will help us continue ! Thanks Nova I needed to see this today ~CD