The Long Hold Support Group

[[la...]]

I am doing cut and hold...I tried MT once and it was no different for me then C&H  so that's what I am doing

 

 

I NEVER have gotten to a "baseline"  don't even know what that would feel like anymore

 

My newest symptom is tingling/numbness in feet and hands....thought it was all due to herniated discs in neck but it may be from the w/d!!!!!!

 

 

when I made my 1st cut after 5 month hold that's when the new symptom popped up...My gosh this poison just keeps lashing out at us

 

I am determined this time...BE DAMNED Valium..... I can not look back must keep cutting and believeing that I will join some of my friends on here who are now off..I would have been too if I had not stopped all together and then did the long hold too

 

I am still going to see Dr about the tingling because I can not be playing with nerve loss

 

BTW when I did MT I was weighing and measuring....never did LT... I can not change anything anymore my brain is to fried to handle the slightest changes.  The pharmacist must think I am bonkers because I INSIST that the diazepam is ALWAYS TEVA brand....any change, like I said will throw me into a worse loop

[[Va...]]

  I already have 5 ml. and 3 ml. syringes from when I was on a liquid med for CDiff.  I could use these I guess.  Where do you get glycol?  Amazon I guess.  Is this method better than the milk?

It seems easier than the milk method to me as you aren't tossing anything so you don't waste any. You get the PG and syringes off amazon. It's not teribbly expensive.  --V

[[Va...]]

I am doing cut and hold...I tried MT once and it was no different for me then C&H  so that's what I am doing

 

 

I NEVER have gotten to a "baseline"  don't even know what that would feel like anymore

 

My newest symptom is tingling/numbness in feet and hands....thought it was all due to herniated discs in neck but it may be from the w/d!!!!!!

 

 

when I made my 1st cut after 5 month hold that's when the new symptom popped up...My gosh this poison just keeps lashing out at us

 

I am determined this time...BE DAMNED Valium..... I can not look back must keep cutting and believeing that I will join some of my friends on here who are now off..I would have been too if I had not stopped all together and then did the long hold too

 

I am still going to see Dr about the tingling because I can not be playing with nerve loss

 

BTW when I did MT I was weighing and measuring....never did LT... I can not change anything anymore my brain is to fried to handle the slightest changes.  The pharmacist must think I am bonkers because I INSIST that the diazepam is ALWAYS TEVA brand....any change, like I said will throw me into a worse loop

Sorry for your continued strggles lainey. You will beat this and be off some day. I just wish you could have the same luck as I've had. --V

[[li...]]

A .25 mg cut of Valium is equal to .0125 mg of klonopin right?  I was only cutting .002 mg a day in and had to go down to .001 mg a day in my microtaper. I couldn't handle that big of a cut. I plan to start up again super slow and have a cut and hold pattern that I've seen work well for people who were then able to increase their cut as they went along. Who knows. We are all different. Feeling a little more stable at the end of day 8 after my dose change so going to wait another few days before I start going down again and pray it will be gentler than going from four doses a day to three. My brain is either psychotic or comatose so I'm praying I can find a pattern that will get me somewhere in between. It's not like if I take too big a cut im in too much physical pain. I literally feel like I need to run down the street screaming and completely lose my ability to ground or distract. That's what happened day three and four of my dose change and I'm crawling back up from there.

[[li...]]

And Lainey I always insist on Teva too. I check every single foil pouch to make sure they haven't substituted another brand. They think I'm nuts too. Oh well. They wouldn't be the first. Let the pharmacist try to do what we are doing!

[[Va...]]

A .25 mg cut of Valium is equal to .0125 mg of klonopin right?  I was only cutting .002 mg a day in and had to go down to .001 mg a day in my microtaper. I couldn't handle that big of a cut. I plan to start up again super slow and have a cut and hold pattern that I've seen work well for people who were then able to increase their cut as they went along. Who knows. We are all different. Feeling a little more stable at the end of day 8 after my dose change so going to wait another few days before I start going down again and pray it will be gentler than going from four doses a day to three. My brain is either psychotic or comatose so I'm praying I can find a pattern that will get me somewhere in between. It's not like if I take too big a cut im in too much physical pain. I literally feel like I need to run down the street screaming and completely lose my ability to ground or distract. That's what happened day three and four of my dose change and I'm crawling back up from there.

Ashton has 1mg of K at 20mg V equivalent. I cut at .025 and hold whenever I feel sxs. It seems to be working well to the point that I actually feel better the more I go down which I believe is the goal of doing a liquid MT. I hope you find the same with your taper. Once your body adjusts to the change, you can play around with the the cut rate to see what works.  --V

[[li...]]

That sounds sensible V. I'm going to do a nano taper the first month just to see how my body reacts to any reduction and then see how high of a cut I can do and still stay under my brain's radar.

[[Va...]]

That sounds sensible V. I'm going to do a nano taper the first month just to see how my body reacts to any reduction and then see how high of a cut I can do and still stay under my brain's radar.

[[He...]]

PLEASE HELP ME, I AM SO SICK AND SO SCARED

 

Is it normal for wfx to ramp up on THe 20th  day if a hold?

 

I woke up feeling better than usual.  I even drove to a friends house at noon.

 

Then at 4 o'clock, all of a sudden out of no where I got horrible horrible horrible  shakes, pins and needles all over, back pain, jelly legs like I thought I would fall down and if course my neckk is still in a collar.

 

It's like as good as I felt in the morning and afternoon, that's how bad I felt later. And all these wdfx all came at the same time. And they kept getting worse and worse for an hour, until they just stayed that way and here I am 3 1/2 hours later and they are still the same.  I never had so many wsfx all at once! I feel so sick!

 

And why after still holding at the same dose for 20 days!

 

Aside  from feeling awful, I am scared out if my mind!

 

I am beginning to understand, even better, how Free, Lainy, and Lizagal are feeling. Oh my gosh you poor buddies!  I hope it all gets better fast for you!!

 

I thought the wsfx I had before were bad but now I know what I had  experienced  before was NOTHNG compared to this. They seem to be getting much worse now.

On My last hold , things got better at about 6 weeks so I know I still certainly have to wait much longer. But in my last hold, the wsfx NEVER got so bad like this!

 

Please tell me this is a common occurance although horribke and that it will stop soon and I will be okay.

 

Please help  :-[ :-[

 

Heath

[[Va...]]

PLEASE HELP ME, I AM SO SICK AND SO SCARED

 

Is it normal for wfx to ramp up on THe 20th  day if a hold?

 

I woke up feeling better than usual.  I even drove to a friends house at noon.

 

Then at 4 o'clock, all of a sudden out of no where I got horrible horrible horrible  shakes, pins and needles all over, back pain, jelly legs like I thought I would fall down and if course my neckk is still in a collar.

 

It's like as good as I felt in the morning and afternoon, that's how bad I felt later. And all these wdfx all came at the same time. And they kept getting worse and worse for an hour, until they just stayed that way and here I am 3 1/2 hours later and they are still the same.  I never had so many wsfx all at once! I feel so sick!

 

And why after still holding at the same dose for 20 days!

 

Aside  from feeling awful, I am scared out if my mind!

 

I am beginning to understand, even better, how Free, Lainy, and Lizagal are feeling. Oh my gosh you poor buddies!  I hope it all gets better fast for you!!

 

I thought the wsfx I had before were bad but now I know what I had  experienced  before was NOTHNG compared to this. They seem to be getting much worse now.

On My last hold , things got better at about 6 weeks so I know I still certainly have to wait much longer. But in my last hold, the wsfx NEVER got so bad like this!

 

Please tell me this is a common occurance although horribke and that it will stop soon and I will be okay.

 

Please help  :-[ :-[

 

Heath

At 20 days, I was a total wreck. Hang in there! --V

[[He...]]

And you survived!  So there is hope!  I hope I am better tomorrow.

Thanks! V.

Heath

[[no...]]

Hi everyone  After 17 months getting nowhere doing MT  then holding for 6 months , I've gone back to cut and hold and I'm now 9 days into a hold until I feel able to cut again but this time I'm not putting a time line to my hold I am going to cut as and when I feel I can. Or as I have done over the last 16 days, feel so terrible that it feels cuttings the right thing to do. I have cut an eighth off my dose so far which is more than I did in 17 months liquid MT, so it just a case of doing what I can when I can.

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

 

 

 

[[Sh...]]

Nova why do you think mt was so hard to make progress for you?? Who bloody knows with these pills.

[[li...]]

Heath my hold was very up and down and I got vertigo at three months that I've never had before in my life and it lasted a couple weeks

[[no...]]

Nova why do you think mt was so hard to make progress for you?? Who bloody knows with these pills.

Hi Shamo  I can't give an absolute answer to that but it felt like I had taken a huge cut and couldn't recover.  My first from 100mls1ml put me on my back for 6 to 8 weeks barely able to move weeks, then the next cut of 1/2ml 005 of a ml put me on my back again, even 00.2  was way too much for me to handle.

 

I then diluted my 200mls per 2mg pill still too much, did a 6 month hold which I now think I should have cut at 3 months with hind sight, I had a good few weeks but still with symptoms at that point but maybe I expected too much 'perfection''  no symptoms at all. But looking back I had a huge leap compared to where I was when I began the hold, and I was still 17 moths later at less than practically 1/2 of an eighth or even less than that I reckon from 2mg and unable to cut any more.

 

And with MT the cuts hit me the same day with C+H  so far I noticed the 2 cuts I made over 16 days I felt better the next day then 2 or 3 days later it hits me. But here is the other thing I'm find I working out what seemed to be complex stuff a LOT easier than I have I  for many years the last 16 days of being back at C+H look at what I've done here in the second week of C+H  on the links below, a few days ago I was asking how to weigh bloody pills as I couldn't think  and I've been like that for years 

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=164695.msg2193772#msg2193772

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=164694.msg2193769#msg2193769

 

 

The above posts I done are like I was before Benzos nothing was too difficult or puzzling I couldn't see a way around it immediately, and I mean the second I looked at or heard something that called for a solution I am still really suffering physically and mentally but that's huge for someone who couldn't remember what I did or said seconds ago for years? I honestly thought I had Alzheimer's disease, along with brain and nerve damage as I been in hell pain and all sorts of bizarre symptoms for many years, and my friends used to call my 'The professor'' ''Google' and PC world because there was nothing I couldn't work out or find a way around.

 

And '' Meths lab'' because I was always making all sorts of lotions and potions in my ''Lab kitchen'' as I called it. no I was NOT drug manufacturing     And  that was many, many year's before I even looked at a PC and many years before I even used one.  It took a long time before I could see I was messed up but not really how messed up I was. This week has really bought  it all home to me.

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[li...]]

So I understand Nova, you made one microtaper cut one day and it knocked you down for 6-8 weeks or you did that MT cut every day for 6-8 weeks and it wrecked you?

[[no...]]

So I understand Nova, you made one microtaper cut one day and it knocked you down for 6-8 weeks or you did that MT cut every day for 6-8 weeks and it wrecked you?

Hi Liza    I've just  looked back through old posts and notes and what happened was I tried to toss 1ml The first 1ml from 100ml liquid daily Micro taper  13th march 2015 

Dropped 1ml per day  until 17th march  2015

Went back to C+H  17th march 2015

 

( All this is what I didn't remember but have managed to find it written somewhere even on bits of paper as well as posts and on my PC )

 

By late march, April 2105 felt so well that I went to town and did lots of things I had been unable to do even my Hyperacusis was better, in fact it was gone where as by the beginning of march it was bad along with tinnitus. After seeking advice in here ( I know, I know, shit happens) while feeling great I was scared into ''what if it happens again at the lower doses'' and believed, once again  that MT would spare me from hell. Not thinking about well I was cutting C+H anyway and was doing brilliantly at that time. April 20th 2015 I began liquid MT again.( shoot me now someone  ) Cut 1ml from100mls, and it  put me on my back for 6 weeks, and because of ''that's normal' when you go to liquid I thought that's what was happening.

 

Totally forgetting the previous bad experience after being talked into holding on as my body wolud ''adapt' within any thing from a week to a month, except it never, and my head was so messed up I couldn't se the woods for the trees. I then during the last couple of weeks of my 6 month hold decided to read and record ALL my posts and make notes . I had lost a LOT of work when my PC crashed and a year of notes where gone, but between what I found I had printed off and forgotten as it was in paper files all over the place, and notes I found I had made on last year Calender which was hidden in a cupboard.

 

I managed to find a ''timeline'' of a lot of things and what I was going through and what lead up to some stuff, but what really stood out was even when I felt rough doing C+h if it got real bad I would cut anyway and was having waves and windows but cutting by  a quarter a month and getting out and about for hours every day.

 

MT after 17 months I was nowhere at all, I'm not ruling MT out in the future, never say never but I' did C+h ALL my life before and just took symptoms as they came wait d until they went then cut again. And was moving along getting somewhere MT got me stuck for far too long, and I wa sin such a mes it never occurred to me to stop it again a long time ago. Oh well que' sera, sera', I'm hoping that I can stay with C+h and make progress like I did with lots of different drugs benzos included for years, and I'm hoping that I'll do better as I get lower.

 

 

 

The best advice I can give anyone right now is to do the same check ALL your previous  post, every thread you ever posted on you'll be surprised what you can dig up that way notes whenever you can lay your hands on and see if you can see any sort of pattern at all. And make notes of the day, year, and months  even if is brief  for example ''March 10 2016 crap''  ''March 12 'felt okay'''  June 11th ''bad ay'' 'June 12th great; day'' and so on and see what you did  and how you were doing at the. In my case ''Seek and ye' shall find'' was very helpful, I'msure it will help lots of others to do this too. 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[li...]]

More confused than ever. Cut and hold had me bedridden. MT was working but crashed after 90 days because I kept pushing through horrible symptoms instead of holding for a couple days.

[[fr...]]

  I haven't tried MT yet.  I might just do it as cut and hold is just slaying me.  The thought of the measuring etc. makes me so worried though.  I will use milk though Valley has suggested glycol.  Don't want to go with something so sugary though.  Maybe it isn't I really don't know what it is.  I'm just so sick I don't know if I could do it.  I still have enough of my mind left to cut a pill though.  Hope you both figure it out.

[[no...]]

More confused than ever. Cut and hold had me bedridden. MT was working but crashed after 90 days because I kept pushing through horrible symptoms instead of holding for a couple days.

 

]The best advice I can give anyone right now is to do the same check ALL your previous  post, every thread you ever posted on you'll be surprised what you can dig up that way notes whenever you can lay your hands on and see if you can see any sort of pattern at all. And make notes of the day, year, and months  even if is brief  for example ''March 10 2016 crap''  ''March 12 'felt okay'''  June 11th ''bad ay'' 'June 12th great; day'' and so on and see what you did  and how you were doing at the. In my case ''Seek and ye' shall find'' was very helpful, I'm sure it will help lots of others to do this too. 

 

 

 

Liza  above is the last thing I said because of this happening to everyone sweetie

More confused than ever

 

 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[Va...]]

I'm finding MT to be more forgiving and pretty much symptom free but I have built in hold days. Doing micro cuts wasn't bad either so I would second what nova said and find what works best for you and keeps sxs to a minimum. If there's one thing we've all learned, there isn't one method of tapering that works for everyone.  Hope you all have a great day! --V

[[no...]]

Hi V Hee'rs a typical example of why I think its good to look back at what you posted or noted else where. I said earlier I'm now at day 9 of my hold, I just checked its actually day 11 The other thing I'm doing is trying to keep 2 daily journals as I tend to go writing a lot at  some times and it makes it hard to try fathom what I was doing, feeling, if there were any triggers or not etc day to day. So I keep one as brief as possible so the information I want to look for isn't hidden in a big Journaling session

 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[Va...]]

Hi V Hee'rs a typical example of why I think its good to look back at what you posted or noted else where. I said earlier I'm now at day 9 of my hold, I just checked its actually day 11 The other thing I'm doing is trying to keep 2 daily journals as I tend to go writing a lot at  some times and it makes it hard to try fathom what I was doing, feeling, if there were any triggers or not etc day to day. So I keep one as brief as possible so the information I want to look for isn't hidden in a big Journaling session

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

Thanks nova!  I'm terrible at keeping records. I usually just jot something on the calendar (like a frown face) if I feel crappy lol.  --V

 

[[Pl...]]

Hi V Hee'rs a typical example of why I think its good to look back at what you posted or noted else where. I said earlier I'm now at day 9 of my hold, I just checked its actually day 11 The other thing I'm doing is trying to keep 2 daily journals as I tend to go writing a lot at  some times and it makes it hard to try fathom what I was doing, feeling, if there were any triggers or not etc day to day. So I keep one as brief as possible so the information I want to look for isn't hidden in a big Journaling session

 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

First I want to apologize to anyone I haven't gotten back to.... Please give me some time as I have been overtaxed lately I appreciate all of you...

 

Nova... Please help me understand ...... I know microtapering is daily and cut and hold is just what it says... But I am confused..... was it the method of daily tapering that messed you up and or is it because you were using liquid?  do you still use liquid or are you back to pills?

 

Sorry for my questions.....  

[[He...]]

thanks  Lizagal and VallyUm and all buddies,

 

Today my jelly legs are much worse than yesterday. I can hardly walk around the house.

My neck  is weak, my lower back is weak, and now my legs are absolutely almost useless.

 

I had lumbar back surgery last December, and I know I have spinal stenosis in my neck too.

 

I am praying that these symptoms are truly benzo  withdrawal. I am scared that they may be related to my spinal issues. I don't want to go back to see the surgeon, but maybe a check up and description of what's going on is in order.  Maybe it will ease my mind? I guess I am afraid of getting worse news.

 

Since so many people have had jelly legs, I am hoping it is the Benzos, but am I fooling myself? Am I being an alarmist?

 

Heath

 

Oh also, anyone who is micro tapering I am micro tapering and holding. I started micro tapering about two months with .01 daily for five days. After .05 total, I stopped to see what would happen. When the wfx started, I held. I'm still holding now, I wanted to cut again, but with these wfx, no way!

 

Anyone who can micro taper and keep going every day........all power to you! It would crash me for sure!

 

I am committed to holding until these wfx ease up.... But they just keep getting worse..and new ones keep coming.

I'm wondering about what is said about sometimes a small cut will get rid of a bad wfx.  Any opinions on that?

 

Thanks, Heath

 

Oops sorry, I don't know how all of that got into bold print. Can't seem to get it off!