The Long Hold Support Group

[[Va...]]

Kgirl I thought you suggested to me not to updose the K but to just get moving with the taper. I have no idea if my sxs are all side effects but I'm going from four doses to three a day starting today, hoping it won't make things worse and then resuming my MT

Liza, I've adopted the term dose correction as updose seems to be a swear word lol. I believe it more accurately reflects the purpose of increasing the dose. I believe both dose correction and holding are valuable tools in this process. Just thinking out loud.  --V

[[be...]]

Hey Valley how are your eyes doing? Hope everything is better for you. Thanks for the support you give here, while going through your own s/x's. Hang in there. RESPECTIVLEY THE "TURTLE".

[[li...]]

I agree V--totally on board once I start tapering again which I hope is soon if my body acclimated quickly to 3x/day. Praying it does!!!

[[Va...]]

Hey Valley how are your eyes doing? Hope everything is better for you. Thanks for the support you give here, while going through your own s/x's. Hang in there. RESPECTIVLEY THE "TURTLE".

My eyes seem to be doing better BG. In fact I have very few if any sxs right now. I felt some lag time coming so I have held the past couple of days and everything is going better than I expected. Now if I can just get the rest of the way in the same shape. Hope all is well with you! --V

[[be...]]

Hey Valley how are your eyes doing? Hope everything is better for you. Thanks for the support you give here, while going through your own s/x's. Hang in there. RESPECTIVLEY THE "TURTLE".

My eyes seem to be doing better BG. In fact I have very few if any sxs right now. I felt some lag time coming so I have held the past couple of days and everything is going better than I expected. Now if I can just get the rest of the way in the same shape. Hope all is well with you! --V

Glad things are better, I think you will be alright, just slow and easy. I am good, had really good sleep and lots of wonderful dreams, slowly but surely we will get there.

[[ly...]]

 

 

So glad you are feeling well V and begood!  I am on day three.  Other than some momentary jelly legs, so far so good (knocking on wood...).

[[be...]]

 

 

So glad you are feeling well V and begood!  I am on day three.  Other than some momentary jelly legs, so far so good (knocking on wood...).

Good to hear that Lynn, stay away from the peanut butter.

[[ly...]]

 

 

Begood - you just reminded me that I need some marshmallow fluff!

[[Kg...]]

Liza everyone's situation is different and as I recall your situation was very different from Nemo's.  With that being said I have no recollection of what you posted a fairly long time ago. In the course of a taper that is a slow taper, not cutting .25 mg to start with on a 1 mg dose of K,  I don't think long holds help many of us and I for one felt better with the lower doses.  IMHO  most of us  in order to get off of these awful drugs will not ever be s/x free. In this situation the only way to get off is to get off - at the pace your body finds survivable whatever that may be.  I will say that I feel so much better totally off of the benzos than I did during the course of my years long taper.

 

 

[[Va...]]

 

 

So glad you are feeling well V and begood!  I am on day three.  Other than some momentary jelly legs, so far so good (knocking on wood...).

That's great lynn! You too BG! 

[[ga...]]

V, I'm still holding my L but want to turtle taper my Q. Asked a question about math on MT now that I have my dilution figured out. Can you do math? Would you look at MT? I have no clue how to figure out what pace I am setting.

 

The Chicken Gardener

[[Va...]]

V, I'm still holding my L but want to turtle taper my Q. Asked a question about math on MT now that I have my dilution figured out. Can you do math? Would you look at MT? I have no clue how to figure out what pace I am setting.

 

The Chicken Gardener

I can give it a shot gard. I read the post on the MT board and just need you to clarify your dilution procedure so I can figure out the amount to remove.  --V

[[ba...]]

Checking in again with a question. I am still holding, a month as of today. The intense physical wd is not as intense (parasthesia, drunken sailor, etc.) but I am experiencing much higher anxiety, and a great deal of panic. I seem to be coursing with adrenaline which is not the productive kind, but the fight or flight, jumping at everything, and quite fearful. Normal? Will it calm down?

Hi BD. My experience was that it is very normal for old sxs to drop only to be replaced by new ones. The adrenaline and anxiety should start to calm down.  --V

 

 

I suspected that the heightened anxiety would gradually ease. Glad to get your input. I very seldom had panic attacks before taking benzos, just intense anxiety. At this point, I do operate in  a great deal of panic. I suspect it is actually my original anxiety disorder popping up.

 

Did have a horrid day yesterday where I was right back in intense withdraw, things like that leave me scared for a while, and increase my dread.

 

Overall however, the intense wd sxs are much lower, and the anxiety/panic is up.

 

Was riding my bike as I do almost everyday, and had to get off and sit, like in the pre hold days. The drunken sailor, the visual distortions, and the bubble head all hit hard.

 

Today, I am just very uncomfortable and panicked, because I don't know what to expect. One of the few days I haven't biked.

 

Please understand, when I bike, I do not feel good. I have anxiety, moderate visual problems, and sometimes a bit of the drunken sailor, but I do it anyway. I firmly believe that both physically and psychologically it is getting me through this. I often have to stop and wait out the hard period of the dose rebound, but that's OK. If nothing else, I can always say the day was fucked, but I rode my 15 miles, and on most days, I even stop in at The Botanic Park where I work, although I usually don't work long. Fortunately, they are super flexible with me.

 

Essentially, I ride from my home to the Botanic, make some detours into the woods to calm down at the rough periods, then ride home. I live high up in a ski resort town in Colorado, and thrive on living in the wild, and on being outside and physically active.

 

I am a woman who really persists in living as much as I can in spite of this. I talk to people when I don't feel good, and stay outdoors, and don't come running home when I am freaking out. I am not teaching myself that retreat is an option. Sitting alone and quiet is, but I am going to suffer no matter where I am, so unless I am in the height of dysfunction, better to just keep going.

 

Winter is coming fast here, so my biking will be replaced with the gym and snowshoeing. I know it will be hard at first. With biking and snowshoeing, I am out, and alone. and can retreat. I will have to acclimate myself to the gym, just like someone with agoraphobia.

 

 

What I wish I had more than anything was someone to get me through the freak outs. I know Johnny Depp has this disorder, and he always has several therapists on set for his episodes. I do not use my friends or family as therapists, I don't want that. It would be nice to have a retinue of know ledgable and calm professionals to talk me through my freak outs, I suspect we would all like that.

[[Pl...]]

V- or anyone who knows.... Not asking for medical advice just experiences.... My doctor knows about this but in my cog fog forgot to ask him this question and of course things appear normal when I'm there except for my rapid pulse when it comes to my heart..... Ugh

 

I've been holding about 20 days now and have been wondering if anyone had this... I've been noticing a pattern that comes and goes....

 

morning rapid pulse heart beating out of chest for no reason feels like its going to come thru my chest.....brief and intermittent.  Pulse almost 150

 

slightly again at noon

 

And again between 2:30 and 3:00 pm - bp 128/109 don't even know if this is high bp or not ... Heart racing like it wants to come out of chest lasts between 5 and 10 minutes .. Like I just ran 10 blocks...

 

is this what people mean by cortisol and adrenaline surges?

 

The point being it happens at certain points of the day.....what a merry go round this is if its not one thing its another! I'm so sick of this......

 

I think its be good who has this on her signature.... Patience and breathe...

 

 

[[ga...]]

V, I'm still holding my L but want to turtle taper my Q. Asked a question about math on MT now that I have my dilution figured out. Can you do math? Would you look at MT? I have no clue how to figure out what pace I am setting.

 

The Chicken Gardener

I can give it a shot gard. I read the post on the MT board and just need you to clarify your dilution procedure so I can figure out the amount to remove.  --V

 

OK. I have a 25mg tablet of Seroquel. I was dry cutting and got down to the tablet weighing 68mg (from an original 101 or so), and had held there for about a month because of symptoms of unknown origin. The Q is actually almost a quarter of the tablet weight, so that just got too difficult to accurately dry cut. I couldn't make small enough dry cuts and my amazon scale was not accurate enough. The Q being such a large portion of the tablet is the problem. And it doesn't come smaller. And it isn't soluble or even stable in water. I have to liquefy and drink it quickly every evening.

 

Anne taught me how to suspend it. I crush it and mix it with 200ml of water in a jar. Then I shake like crazy and pull and pitch out 64ml. Actually, last night I pulled and pitched 65ml. I haven't a clue what kind of rate that would be to pitch another ml every day. Or maybe it should be every other day. Or maybe once a week. No clue.

 

I'm not trying to get off it. I'm just trying to see if I can inch downward or if my sleep will collapse. I don't want to take any more of this stuff than I have to. I'd like to get down to half the tablet (many people only take half), stabilize, and then proceed with turtle taper of the Librium.

 

I hope that's what you wanted to know. Thanks for your help.

 

Gard

[[Pl...]]

Checking in again with a question. I am still holding, a month as of today. The intense physical wd is not as intense (parasthesia, drunken sailor, etc.) but I am experiencing much higher anxiety, and a great deal of panic. I seem to be coursing with adrenaline which is not the productive kind, but the fight or flight, jumping at everything, and quite fearful. Normal? Will it calm down?

Hi BD. My experience was that it is very normal for old sxs to drop only to be replaced by new ones. The adrenaline and anxiety should start to calm down.  --V

 

 

I suspected that the heightened anxiety would gradually ease. Glad to get your input. I very seldom had panic attacks before taking benzos, just intense anxiety. At this point, I do operate in  a great deal of panic. I suspect it is actually my original anxiety disorder popping up.

 

Did have a horrid day yesterday where I was right back in intense withdraw, things like that leave me scared for a while, and increase my dread.

 

Overall however, the intense wd sxs are much lower, and the anxiety/panic is up.

 

Was riding my bike as I do almost everyday, and had to get off and sit, like in the pre hold days. The drunken sailor, the visual distortions, and the bubble head all hit hard.

 

Today, I am just very uncomfortable and panicked, because I don't know what to expect. One of the few days I haven't biked.

 

Please understand, when I bike, I do not feel good. I have anxiety, moderate visual problems, and sometimes a bit of the drunken sailor, but I do it anyway. I firmly believe that both physically and psychologically it is getting me through this. I often have to stop and wait out the hard period of the dose rebound, but that's OK. If nothing else, I can always say the day was fucked, but I rode my 15 miles, and on most days, I even stop in at The Botanic Park where I work, although I usually don't work long. Fortunately, they are super flexible with me.

 

Essentially, I ride from my home to the Botanic, make some detours into the woods to calm down at the rough periods, then ride home. I live high up in a ski resort town in Colorado, and thrive on living in the wild, and on being outside and physically active.

 

I am a woman who really persists in living as much as I can in spite of this. I talk to people when I don't feel good, and stay outdoors, and don't come running home when I am freaking out. I am not teaching myself that retreat is an option. Sitting alone and quiet is, but I am going to suffer no matter where I am, so unless I am in the height of dysfunction, better to just keep going.

 

Winter is coming fast here, so my biking will be replaced with the gym and snowshoeing. I know it will be hard at first. With biking and snowshoeing, I am out, and alone. and can retreat. I will have to acclimate myself to the gym, just like someone with agoraphobia.

 

 

What I wish I had more than anything was someone to get me through the freak outs. I know Johnny Depp has this disorder, and he always has several therapists on set for his episodes. I do not use my friends or family as therapists, I don't want that. It would be nice to have a retinue of know ledgable and calm professionals to talk me through my freak outs, I suspect we would all like that.

 

Yes... Bad dove.... I feel the same way.... I wish we could each have a sponsor kind of like people who are in A A  but for the freak outs..... Just to talk you thru it.....

 

 

[[an...]]

V, I'm still holding my L but want to turtle taper my Q. Asked a question about math on MT now that I have my dilution figured out. Can you do math? Would you look at MT? I have no clue how to figure out what pace I am setting.

 

The Chicken Gardener

I can give it a shot gard. I read the post on the MT board and just need you to clarify your dilution procedure so I can figure out the amount to remove.  --V

 

OK. I have a 25mg tablet of Seroquel. I was dry cutting and got down to the tablet weighing 68mg (from an original 101 or so), and had held there for about a month because of symptoms of unknown origin. The Q is actually almost a quarter of the tablet weight, so that just got too difficult to accurately dry cut. I couldn't make small enough dry cuts and my amazon scale was not accurate enough. The Q being such a large portion of the tablet is the problem. And it doesn't come smaller. And it isn't soluble or even stable in water. I have to liquefy and drink it quickly every evening.

 

Anne taught me how to suspend it. I crush it and mix it with 200ml of water in a jar. Then I shake like crazy and pull and pitch out 64ml. Actually, last night I pulled and pitched 65ml. I haven't a clue what kind of rate that would be to pitch another ml every day. Or maybe it should be every other day. Or maybe once a week. No clue.

 

I'm not trying to get off it. I'm just trying to see if I can inch downward or if my sleep will collapse. I don't want to take any more of this stuff than I have to. I'd like to get down to half the tablet (many people only take half), stabilize, and then proceed with turtle taper of the Librium.

 

I hope that's what you wanted to know. Thanks for your help.

 

Gard

 

Gard,

 

I posted this in the Micro Tapering group.

 

You are on 16.875 mg at present.  If you were to cut 1 mL a day for a month (30 days) you will cut by 22%.  Is that too much?  I am not sure. Each mL contains 25 mg/200 mL = 0.125 mg / mL.  Cutting 30 mL (over a month) is 30 mL x 0.125mg/mL = 3.75 mg. 

 

16.875 - 3.75 mg = 13.125 mg 

 

and

 

3.75/16.875 * 100 = 22%.  So that would be a 22% cut in a month.  If you were to decrease by 0.5 mL a day, it would be an 11% cut.  This might be more doable. 

 

Anne 

[[an...]]

Gard,

 

You could also decrease by 1 mL every other day for a 11% reduction over one months time.  Just let me know.  Would you prefer to do a 5% cut in one month? 

[[ly...]]

Please,

 

I have had the rapid heart rate and elevated BP.  I  can't say about the coming and going aspect of it.  I just know I had it (I also felt weak and light-headed) and I took my HR and BP at the drug store and this confirmed it.  I never took it again.  It was still elevated somewhat a couple months later when I went for an annual check-up.  The nurse said that the numbers were not something they would worry about. I'm sure mine probably went up and down.  I haven't had this issue in months.

[[Pl...]]

Please,

 

I have had the rapid heart rate and elevated BP.  I  can't say about the coming and going aspect of it.  I just know I had it (I also felt weak and light-headed) and I took my HR and BP at the drug store and this confirmed it.  I never took it again.  It was still elevated somewhat a couple months later when I went for an annual check-up.  The nurse said that the numbers were not something they would worry about. I'm sure mine probably went up and down.  I haven't had this issue in months.

 

Thanks so much Lynn for sharing your experience.....(((.    )))

 

All of these symptoms really mess with your  head..... I had perfect bp before all of this...

 

If anything will make you turn into a hypochondriac going thru this definitely will.... I have the worst health anxiety not just  because of the degree of symptoms but because there are so many.....

 

I'm sorry you experienced that......- was this related to you reducing too quickly?

[[ly...]]

 

 

Yes, I had these problems starting in January and into April.  I had them last year with large cuts too.  My BP is usually low (105/70) so the elevation was pretty substantial.

[[Pl...]]

 

 

Yes, I had these problems starting in January and into April.  I had them last year with large cuts too.  My BP is usually low (105/70) so the elevation was pretty substantial.

 

Oh Lynn... Thank you for that.... I just have severe fatigue and have been housebound for so long I always think its something else... I still do... Like something the doctors aren't catching....

 

I don't know what I would do without all of you guys.....

[[Va...]]

V- or anyone who knows.... Not asking for medical advice just experiences.... My doctor knows about this but in my cog fog forgot to ask him this question and of course things appear normal when I'm there except for my rapid pulse when it comes to my heart..... Ugh

 

I've been holding about 20 days now and have been wondering if anyone had this... I've been noticing a pattern that comes and goes....

 

morning rapid pulse heart beating out of chest for no reason feels like its going to come thru my chest.....brief and intermittent.  Pulse almost 150

 

slightly again at noon

 

And again between 2:30 and 3:00 pm - bp 128/109 don't even know if this is high bp or not ... Heart racing like it wants to come out of chest lasts between 5 and 10 minutes .. Like I just ran 10 blocks...

 

is this what people mean by cortisol and adrenaline surges?

 

The point being it happens at certain points of the day.....what a merry go round this is if its not one thing its another! I'm so sick of this......

 

I think its be good who has this on her signature.... Patience and breathe...

Please my BP was so high at all my visits to the doctor, they would make me sit until it came down before I could leave. I knew it was benzo withdrawal and it has gone back down to normal but did take a few months.  --V

[[Va...]]

V, I'm still holding my L but want to turtle taper my Q. Asked a question about math on MT now that I have my dilution figured out. Can you do math? Would you look at MT? I have no clue how to figure out what pace I am setting.

 

The Chicken Gardener

I can give it a shot gard. I read the post on the MT board and just need you to clarify your dilution procedure so I can figure out the amount to remove.  --V

 

OK. I have a 25mg tablet of Seroquel. I was dry cutting and got down to the tablet weighing 68mg (from an original 101 or so), and had held there for about a month because of symptoms of unknown origin. The Q is actually almost a quarter of the tablet weight, so that just got too difficult to accurately dry cut. I couldn't make small enough dry cuts and my amazon scale was not accurate enough. The Q being such a large portion of the tablet is the problem. And it doesn't come smaller. And it isn't soluble or even stable in water. I have to liquefy and drink it quickly every evening.

 

Anne taught me how to suspend it. I crush it and mix it with 200ml of water in a jar. Then I shake like crazy and pull and pitch out 64ml. Actually, last night I pulled and pitched 65ml. I haven't a clue what kind of rate that would be to pitch another ml every day. Or maybe it should be every other day. Or maybe once a week. No clue.

 

I'm not trying to get off it. I'm just trying to see if I can inch downward or if my sleep will collapse. I don't want to take any more of this stuff than I have to. I'd like to get down to half the tablet (many people only take half), stabilize, and then proceed with turtle taper of the Librium.

 

I hope that's what you wanted to know. Thanks for your help.

 

Gard

OK I understand now. It's the Q you're working on. I would do what Anne suggested and halve your cuts or cut every other day so you stay in the 10% range. Are you cutting the Librium at all? I wasn't sure if you are tapering both and need the math done for the L also.  --V

[[Pl...]]

V- or anyone who knows.... Not asking for medical advice just experiences.... My doctor knows about this but in my cog fog forgot to ask him this question and of course things appear normal when I'm there except for my rapid pulse when it comes to my heart..... Ugh

 

I've been holding about 20 days now and have been wondering if anyone had this... I've been noticing a pattern that comes and goes....

 

morning rapid pulse heart beating out of chest for no reason feels like its going to come thru my chest.....brief and intermittent.  Pulse almost 150

 

slightly again at noon

 

And again between 2:30 and 3:00 pm - bp 128/109 don't even know if this is high bp or not ... Heart racing like it wants to come out of chest lasts between 5 and 10 minutes .. Like I just ran 10 blocks...

 

is this what people mean by cortisol and adrenaline surges?

 

The point being it happens at certain points of the day.....what a merry go round this is if its not one thing its another! I'm so sick of this......

 

I think its be good who has this on her signature.... Patience and breathe...

Please my BP was so high at all my visits to the doctor, they would make me sit until it came down before I could leave. I knew it was benzo withdrawal and it has gone back down to normal but did take a few months.  --V

 

V - thank you....do you know if sour milk can effect efficacy of pills..... I didn't realize the milk was sour and was drinking it for a few days with my pills in it.... I've been nauseous and heaving... The bottle had the expiration date for 2 more days out and I didn't put it together until today....

 

I had a severe symptom increase later this evening again and wonder if this had something to do with it too... All my muscles seized and tightened so hard on the left side of my body....from my head eyes and face and chest with severe vibrating.... my diaphragm constricted so much i couldn't breathe...dizziness...

 

These are some of my older symptoms that I thought were getting better but came back tonite with a vengence.... Really scared because I don't know what to expect .....