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Why am I not getting better


[ec...]

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[ec...]

I've been in acute severe withdrawal since november 2018.  I have a list of mental symptoms I have never see anyone talk about before.  I was put on 15mg of remeron in month 8 and have been tapering off since April 2020.  I've never had a window just different intensity of symptoms, more symptoms and lessening of others etc. 

 

I'm out of my mind and trapped in my mind psychotic with racing thoughts, looping thoughts, brain questioning everything I think, see, hear, say, do. Akathisia and terror.

 

I have no idea how I am alive right now. Others on remeron have had windows and are getting better why am I not?

 

This crap makes no sense. 

 

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you have finished remeron in April. We are in July now. You need to understand that even if Remeron is not a benzo, you took away a medication which has an impact on your brain and nervous system.  So you are med-free totally since April 2020?

That would mean only 3 months medication free. In my eyes it is understandable that you feel bad still.

What you describe as psychotic sounds like withdrawal to me. Just talking out of experience of a person who was polydrugged and withdraw tons of meds. My healing started when my brain was able to learn to live without anything. That was MY experience and it does not have to mean anything for oyu. I just say it because its the reason I think you are feeling a withdrawal from Remeron AND your brain is drug-free for the first time. Thats a lot.

 

and no one here can give you the answer on the "why". We would all not be here if we had the answer.

 

I know you might not be able to, but you keep pushing yourself deeper and deeper into the looping thought about not healing and taking a new medication. Can you try to take it slower, distract, leave the computer alone for a while? Are you able to do something with your body? A lot of buddies here used the body and kept it busy to cope with the racing thoughts and so on.

 

I learned one thing, you cannot make a decision which lead to something good, when you are in this condition, with your brain exploding, spiraling about everything - I called it my "gaga-cycles".. Maybe you have a daytime you feel a little bit more stable? Oh, and try to eat and drink well and enough. I am sorry I cannot tell you anything which solves the problem in a minute. I wish I could.

Here comes a hug!

 

 

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[ec...]

you have finished remeron in April. We are in July now. You need to understand that even if Remeron is not a benzo, you took away a medication which has an impact on your brain and nervous system.  So you are med-free totally since April 2020?

That would mean only 3 months medication free. In my eyes it is understandable that you feel bad still.

What you describe as psychotic sounds like withdrawal to me. Just talking out of experience of a person who was polydrugged and withdraw tons of meds. My healing started when my brain was able to learn to live without anything. That was MY experience and it does not have to mean anything for oyu. I just say it because its the reason I think you are feeling a withdrawal from Remeron AND your brain is drug-free for the first time. Thats a lot.

 

and no one here can give you the answer on the "why". We would all not be here if we had the answer.

 

I know you might not be able to, but you keep pushing yourself deeper and deeper into the looping thought about not healing and taking a new medication. Can you try to take it slower, distract, leave the computer alone for a while? Are you able to do something with your body? A lot of buddies here used the body and kept it busy to cope with the racing thoughts and so on.

 

I learned one thing, you cannot make a decision which lead to something good, when you are in this condition, with your brain exploding, spiraling about everything - I called it my "gaga-cycles".. Maybe you have a daytime you feel a little bit more stable? Oh, and try to eat and drink well and enough. I am sorry I cannot tell you anything which solves the problem in a minute. I wish I could.

Here comes a hug!

 

Im still on remeron. At 9.5 from 15.

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[ec...]

you have finished remeron in April. We are in July now. You need to understand that even if Remeron is not a benzo, you took away a medication which has an impact on your brain and nervous system.  So you are med-free totally since April 2020?

That would mean only 3 months medication free. In my eyes it is understandable that you feel bad still.

What you describe as psychotic sounds like withdrawal to me. Just talking out of experience of a person who was polydrugged and withdraw tons of meds. My healing started when my brain was able to learn to live without anything. That was MY experience and it does not have to mean anything for oyu. I just say it because its the reason I think you are feeling a withdrawal from Remeron AND your brain is drug-free for the first time. Thats a lot.

 

and no one here can give you the answer on the "why". We would all not be here if we had the answer.

 

I know you might not be able to, but you keep pushing yourself deeper and deeper into the looping thought about not healing and taking a new medication. Can you try to take it slower, distract, leave the computer alone for a while? Are you able to do something with your body? A lot of buddies here used the body and kept it busy to cope with the racing thoughts and so on.

 

I learned one thing, you cannot make a decision which lead to something good, when you are in this condition, with your brain exploding, spiraling about everything - I called it my "gaga-cycles".. Maybe you have a daytime you feel a little bit more stable? Oh, and try to eat and drink well and enough. I am sorry I cannot tell you anything which solves the problem in a minute. I wish I could.

Here comes a hug!

 

There is never a time in the day where I feel more stable. I'm holding on for life every second of the day.

 

I have noticed the speed of my racing thoughts have died down a little bit but the looping and sticking is stronger.

 

I quit cigarettes 2 months ago as well.

 

I know I won't see any results until in off remeron but a long taper is killing me.  If I go too fast I risk more symptpms but going slow is so hard because I think it's giving me these symptoms I think.

 

How long were your tapers Marigold? What did you come off of?

 

 

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you have finished remeron in April. We are in July now. You need to understand that even if Remeron is not a benzo, you took away a medication which has an impact on your brain and nervous system.  So you are med-free totally since April 2020?

That would mean only 3 months medication free. In my eyes it is understandable that you feel bad still.

What you describe as psychotic sounds like withdrawal to me. Just talking out of experience of a person who was polydrugged and withdraw tons of meds. My healing started when my brain was able to learn to live without anything. That was MY experience and it does not have to mean anything for oyu. I just say it because its the reason I think you are feeling a withdrawal from Remeron AND your brain is drug-free for the first time. Thats a lot.

 

and no one here can give you the answer on the "why". We would all not be here if we had the answer.

 

I know you might not be able to, but you keep pushing yourself deeper and deeper into the looping thought about not healing and taking a new medication. Can you try to take it slower, distract, leave the computer alone for a while? Are you able to do something with your body? A lot of buddies here used the body and kept it busy to cope with the racing thoughts and so on.

 

I learned one thing, you cannot make a decision which lead to something good, when you are in this condition, with your brain exploding, spiraling about everything - I called it my "gaga-cycles".. Maybe you have a daytime you feel a little bit more stable? Oh, and try to eat and drink well and enough. I am sorry I cannot tell you anything which solves the problem in a minute. I wish I could.

Here comes a hug!

 

There is never a time in the day where I feel more stable. I'm holding on for life every second of the day.

 

I have noticed the speed of my racing thoughts have died down a little bit but the looping and sticking is stronger.

 

I quit cigarettes 2 months ago as well.

 

I know I won't see any results until in off remeron but a long taper is killing me.  If I go too fast I risk more symptpms but going slow is so hard because I think it's giving me these symptoms I think.

 

How long were your tapers Marigold? What did you come off of?

 

I can only repeat it: What you describe is withdrawal.

And you quit smoking on top?? are you kidding me? THIS IS WITHDRAWAL.

 

I did come off more than 10 meds, I won't list them here. To taper all of them took me about 5 years and I NEVER FELT STABLE IN THESE 5 YEARS.

I mind sound harsh, but what you feel is, what most people here feel. Withdrawal. It is the nature of withdrawal that you think you are not going to make it. Thats the only way the body can bring you to swallow a new pill.

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Hi Marigold, can withdrawal from anti depressants last for some months. I stopped citalopram about 3 and half weeks ago while still in zopiclone withdrawal. Being told I'm in control of my brain and recovery up to me to think more positively about things. If only was that easy!
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[ec...]

Hi Marigold, can withdrawal from anti depressants last for some months. I stopped citalopram about 3 and half weeks ago while still in zopiclone withdrawal. Being told I'm in control of my brain and recovery up to me to think more positively about things. If only was that easy!

 

Leann - Antidepressant withdrawal can last for years and years aswell. 

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Hi Marigold, can withdrawal from anti depressants last for some months. I stopped citalopram about 3 and half weeks ago while still in zopiclone withdrawal. Being told I'm in control of my brain and recovery up to me to think more positively about things. If only was that easy!

 

Yes, of course withdrawal from antidepressants and anti psychotics can also last for a long time. Why not?! Some call it withdrawal, others call it readjustment time for the brain, I dont care it feels horrible.

 

The comment you received about being in control of brain and recovery is definitively coming from a person without any knowledge about body chemistry. You cannot control a lack of minerals/vitamins/neuro transmitters/hormones/ and so on, which is always caused by withdrawal - with pure willpower. What are you, a witch? 

A normal cell needs 3 months to recover, please show me a human who is able to speed up the cellular recovery.

What a bullshit we have to hear sometimes.

 

You do not need to control your recovery, cause the body is doing its best to deliver that.

Thinking positive does not fix things. I am more on the side, check out what you CAN do - and do it. And there is a lot you can do, while being in recovery. Check your diet, and adjust it. Maybe get your blood checked if you lack nutrients, - take supplements, if your body is already able to tolerate them. You feel lonely or sad? Do something to get a new perspective. THAT is what you can do.

 

I get really angry. I am convinced most people with depression or so called mental illnesses just suffer from a lack of something. Minerals, vitamins, even hormones. And its relatively easy to fix that and then it will last. But instead we are told to "work" on our soul, our way to think, to be.

 

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Like most of us here benzo WD has been hell, but it did get better for me.  I've read of others who took your course Perth. I'm still not fully recovered, but can feel progress even with additional stress of daughter's mental illness.  I believe it will happen for you too. 

 

I tapered off Mirtazapine many years ago and suffered a withdrawal.  All anti-depressant (that I've tried) impact on me badly.  Psych. Told me to cease taking them.  Very susceptible to Serotonin Syndrome. 

 

The Remeron could be making it more difficult for you Perth idk, but still I believe it's withdrawal related, and you will emerge from it. 

 

Hard to believe, I know, but I can now say at 16 months, I'm definitely on the road to recovery.  How "full" my recovery is going to be depends mostly on myself. 

 

You'll get there Perth.  It's taken longer than I thought. 

 

Dee x

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[ec...]

Hi Marigold, can withdrawal from anti depressants last for some months. I stopped citalopram about 3 and half weeks ago while still in zopiclone withdrawal. Being told I'm in control of my brain and recovery up to me to think more positively about things. If only was that easy!

 

Yes, of course withdrawal from antidepressants and anti psychotics can also last for a long time. Why not?! Some call it withdrawal, others call it readjustment time for the brain, I dont care it feels horrible.

 

The comment you received about being in control of brain and recovery is definitively coming from a person without any knowledge about body chemistry. You cannot control a lack of minerals/vitamins/neuro transmitters/hormones/ and so on, which is always caused by withdrawal - with pure willpower. What are you, a witch? 

A normal cell needs 3 months to recover, please show me a human who is able to speed up the cellular recovery.

What a bullshit we have to hear sometimes.

 

You do not need to control your recovery, cause the body is doing its best to deliver that.

Thinking positive does not fix things. I am more on the side, check out what you CAN do - and do it. And there is a lot you can do, while being in recovery. Check your diet, and adjust it. Maybe get your blood checked if you lack nutrients, - take supplements, if your body is already able to tolerate them. You feel lonely or sad? Do something to get a new perspective. THAT is what you can do.

 

I get really angry. I am convinced most people with depression or so called mental illnesses just suffer from a lack of something. Minerals, vitamins, even hormones. And its relatively easy to fix that and then it will last. But instead we are told to "work" on our soul, our way to think, to be.

 

What do you recommend to do if you are low on Vitamin B12 and supplementation is not possible right now?  Also same with vitamin D and iodine?

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you have finished remeron in April. We are in July now. You need to understand that even if Remeron is not a benzo, you took away a medication which has an impact on your brain and nervous system.  So you are med-free totally since April 2020?

That would mean only 3 months medication free. In my eyes it is understandable that you feel bad still.

What you describe as psychotic sounds like withdrawal to me. Just talking out of experience of a person who was polydrugged and withdraw tons of meds. My healing started when my brain was able to learn to live without anything. That was MY experience and it does not have to mean anything for oyu. I just say it because its the reason I think you are feeling a withdrawal from Remeron AND your brain is drug-free for the first time. Thats a lot.

 

and no one here can give you the answer on the "why". We would all not be here if we had the answer.

 

I know you might not be able to, but you keep pushing yourself deeper and deeper into the looping thought about not healing and taking a new medication. Can you try to take it slower, distract, leave the computer alone for a while? Are you able to do something with your body? A lot of buddies here used the body and kept it busy to cope with the racing thoughts and so on.

 

I learned one thing, you cannot make a decision which lead to something good, when you are in this condition, with your brain exploding, spiraling about everything - I called it my "gaga-cycles".. Maybe you have a daytime you feel a little bit more stable? Oh, and try to eat and drink well and enough. I am sorry I cannot tell you anything which solves the problem in a minute. I wish I could.

Here comes a hug!

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Thanks so much for that Marigold. Yes the comments did make me really angry, as I replied if it was all in our hands to make ourselves better there would be no need for therapists. Some people have no understanding of how devestating these drugs can be. I did have a range of blood tests few months ago, when anti depressants were making my hair fall out and all were clear. Have tried couple supplements but at moment seem to rev up symptoms. Does give me hope you felt bad for long time but did recover. Lockdown has made worse, we normally go to various retirement clubs that provide temporary distraction but all on hold. The comments made me feel very inadequate, I am aware that the anti depressants have aggravated things.
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Hi Marigold sorry just realised I posted your quote to Perth not me sorry! But appreciate your comments. Was bit upset I was being told by someone on here that it was basically up to me to make myself better nothing to do with damage from the drugs and thinking more positively was the answer!
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Hi Marigold sorry just realised I posted your quote to Perth not me sorry! But appreciate your comments. Was bit upset I was being told by someone on here that it was basically up to me to make myself better nothing to do with damage from the drugs and thinking more positively was the answer!

 

People recommend what has helped THEM. Keep that in mind. If someone feels good living with the thought that one only has to believe in something that's fine for me, cause it keeps them going and alive. I annoy people all the time talking about my way out of hell which is a different one. Sometimes it is also interesting what makes me angry to read. Tells me a lot about me actually.. 

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Hi Marigold, did you feel consistently bad for quite a while? Just get despondent after nearly 18 months no windows. I do think severity of symptoms does vary also being made go cold turkey accelerates bad withdrawal. I honestly don't think any amount of positive thinking is going make brain repair but if people want believe that OK, personally think just takes time. Undoubtably anti depressants made it worse but as only on them 6 months hopefully won't have withdrawal as long as zopiclone.
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Hi Marigold, did you feel consistently bad for quite a while? Just get despondent after nearly 18 months no windows. I do think severity of symptoms does vary also being made go cold turkey accelerates bad withdrawal. I honestly don't think any amount of positive thinking is going make brain repair but if people want believe that OK, personally think just takes time. Undoubtably anti depressants made it worse but as only on them 6 months hopefully won't have withdrawal as long as zopiclone.

 

Are you f+++ kidding me??

I had to taper for FIVE years in which I was tolerant to everything I was on. And then, about 2 years of acute withdrawal and about 1,5 years mild withdrawal. And before this, there was the time I was polydrugged. In which I felt like dying inside non stop.

 

So, after a decade of non stop suffering, I would answer your question with "Yes, I felt bad for quite a while"

 

:laugh:

 

It is the nature of withdrawal that you keep thinking you are the only one in the world suffering so badly, because it feels so unbelievable and horrible. And its part of its nature, that you compare and count the days and this just feeds your thought that you will never ever recover. As soon as the acute part is over, you start to be able to see improvement. Did I see the end of the agony after 12, 24, 32... months? No, of course not. I counted each day I survived as a win and so I collected them like trophies.. but it did not feel good. When I look back now, with a healthy brain, I can see that I made progress each year.

No one can really say how withdrawal works and give answers to the why. There are people who can stop CT without any problem, there are people who taper very slowly and still suffer longterm, everything and anything is possible. But there is also hope in this statement - because you could also feel very well pretty soon.

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Sounds like you were polydrugged for a long time so many people seem be put on a variety of meds. I was only ever on zopiclone then 2 anti depressants for 6 months. Just hoping as wasn't cocktail of drugs by end year might be improved. Does give us hope that you came through and eventually recovered. The citalopram withdrawal been lot worse than zopiclone. Think SSRI's just as bad as benzo's. Least your saying body takes about 3 months to adjust from stopping taking them puts thing into perspective. Think easing of lockdown almost making me feel worse, as people going out for more walks doing stuff going out but I still can't. Also doesn't help as doctors clueless about withdrawal, just give them more drugs seems their answer!!!
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Just re read your posts think you said cells take 3 months to renew, I know recovery lot longer than 3 months!!!!!
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[ec...]

I want you to try something. I want you to go deep inside your body and pinpoint where you feel discomfort. I want you to completely embrace this feeling without resistance. Drop down into it.. Feel it.. Sit beside it.. Allow it to be as it is. Give up any resistance you feel towards this feeling.. Ringing in the ears.. buzzing in the legs.. pain in your joints.. Sit beside these feelings. In silence. As you're with these sensations, notice whenever you fall back into mind and drop back into pain.

 

Let yourself become soothed by this pain and suffering. Let this 'being' with your pain melt your mind and release all mental energy. All wanting this to change. All striving for something different. Complete acceptance

 

Minds resistance and non acceptance of what is is what keeps us from experiencing peace

 

When we embrace our pain, and sit beside it, as an anchor, that pain guides us through into something more pleasant. Whenever I'm in pain or trapped in the circular momentum of mental thought, I press pause and drop down. It always guides me through

 

"The road to heaven leads through hell"

 

See what happens. Hopefully this helps

 

How am I supposed to do this if I don't have any physical pain or symptoms to attach my mind to?

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I've noticed that the people who seem to suffer the most are the people who really want things to be simple. It's up and down, side to side, not a very obvious pattern. When you think you've learned something, it is soon contradicted. It just makes sense to accept that things are not as simple as we would like but hey, that's life. You're all warriers.
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[c1...]

I've noticed that the people who seem to suffer the most are the people who really want things to be simple. It's up and down, side to side, not a very obvious pattern. When you think you've learned something, it is soon contradicted. It just makes sense to accept that things are not as simple as we would like but hey, that's life. You're all warriers.

Well thats not true! Its not easy to accept torture. Dont say that ppl who suffer the most is the one that "complains" about their w/d. This makes me upset! You dont know what hell there are in.

Never judge!  I am really sick and just try to survive every day. This is a fact and its true! Benzo w/d can be pure torture and a thin line between life and death for someone.

You are still on benzo. Say this after a long time like me...33 months off and severe sick

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Well said, we are meant to be supporting each other's, lot of negativity at moment. We need to understand the severity of symptoms varies a lot between people. Also can be very different once you actually stop the drugs. Finding it hard to cope is not something others should criticise it's not a sign of weakness.
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It’s not simplicity I want. It’s the length and severity of suffering that’s unbearable. Has nothing to do with simple not simple.
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Hi Marigold, can withdrawal from anti depressants last for some months. I stopped citalopram about 3 and half weeks ago while still in zopiclone withdrawal. Being told I'm in control of my brain and recovery up to me to think more positively about things. If only was that easy!

 

Yes, of course withdrawal from antidepressants and anti psychotics can also last for a long time. Why not?! Some call it withdrawal, others call it readjustment time for the brain, I dont care it feels horrible.

 

The comment you received about being in control of brain and recovery is definitively coming from a person without any knowledge about body chemistry. You cannot control a lack of minerals/vitamins/neuro transmitters/hormones/ and so on, which is always caused by withdrawal - with pure willpower. What are you, a witch? 

A normal cell needs 3 months to recover, please show me a human who is able to speed up the cellular recovery.

What a bullshit we have to hear sometimes.

 

You do not need to control your recovery, cause the body is doing its best to deliver that.

Thinking positive does not fix things. I am more on the side, check out what you CAN do - and do it. And there is a lot you can do, while being in recovery. Check your diet, and adjust it. Maybe get your blood checked if you lack nutrients, - take supplements, if your body is already able to tolerate them. You feel lonely or sad? Do something to get a new perspective. THAT is what you can do.

 

I get really angry. I am convinced most people with depression or so called mental illnesses just suffer from a lack of something. Minerals, vitamins, even hormones. And its relatively easy to fix that and then it will last. But instead we are told to "work" on our soul, our way to think, to be.

 

What do you recommend to do if you are low on Vitamin B12 and supplementation is not possible right now?  Also same with vitamin D and iodine?

 

I can only speak out of my personal experience. I could not tolerate ANYTHING while tapering or in the first year.. maybe even longer I dont remember any more. I had already done several tests which had shown severe lack of everything. Really everything. It was so devastating doctors asked me if I was fasting non stop or was held in a cave or something. So I wanted to take supplements. And I tried a lot and I would react on the littlest dosage. I would react with getting more symptoms, rashes, new symptoms, it as so weird and of course I did not know why and doctors did not know why. Today I know it. At least I have an assumption and that would be: As long as your body is in withdrawal or early recovery, the things are produced which you need to survive. Cortisol for example. Minerals are consumed in high amounts. Hormones are reduced to save energy or they run low because you lack the minerals and vitamins which the stressful time eats up. Its a devils cycle. It is difficult to find a way to work into it.

So what did I do? I had to wait. From time to time I tested some supplements and then finally found a book about mitochondria healing and read how to start, - with magnesium and other minerals. It took me over 3 years until I had filled most of the lacks I had, cause I reacted not only on the mineral itself or the vitamin, - I needed to find pure and good products and brands, without any fillers and I really had paperwork in which I documented what I reacted on and what I could tolerate. And I started with dosages like the Ashton protocol recommended to taper a benzo. I started with 10% of a pill, tested it, and nothing else for at least a week. And so on. See? A process.

I noticed the time I could tolerate suppelemtns was the same time I could tolerate more food and did not over-react on shower gels, soaps and so on any more. The body is wise to act that way! Don't be sad, it is going the way it has too. If your body tells you "no, not ready for supplements" test something again in some months, in a little dosage, watch the brand and product and maybe this time it will work. If not, try again a year later.

 

I have learned every reaction my body produced was correct and necessary. I thought it was broken and over-reacting but it was doing a great job. It regulated the amount of substances in my body and with the reactions showed me exactly when, what and how to swallow something new.

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I've noticed that the people who seem to suffer the most are the people who really want things to be simple. It's up and down, side to side, not a very obvious pattern. When you think you've learned something, it is soon contradicted. It just makes sense to accept that things are not as simple as we would like but hey, that's life. You're all warriers.

Well thats not true! Its not easy to accept torture. Dont say that ppl who suffer the most is the one that "complains" about their w/d. This makes me upset! You dont know what hell there are in.

Never judge!  I am really sick and just try to survive every day. This is a fact and its true! Benzo w/d can be pure torture and a thin line between life and death for someone.

You are still on benzo. Say this after a long time like me...33 months off and severe sick

I still think it's true... sorry

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