It's official, it's not withdrawal, it's a brain injury.

[[Ju...]]

Not really, it's a company that's already been sued in the past, 2000's. I would just get a good lawyer and get my bills paid. I'm not trying to get millions. Power is not above the law and court. Neither is money, it just helps find another good lawyer, for them. Either way, the law is the same.

[[Re...]]

Ohhh not ready man...money does goes places. Specially with courts and powerful lobbies

[[Ju...]]

Well yeah, money rules the world. There's no question about that. It buys real estate and Food and Health Care. But when you go to court for something, the rules are very clear. Either you break them or you don't. Or you do something wrong or you don't. Or you are ordered to pay something or you are not. Well with this, it would be a simple fact of proving them wrong, saying they did something wrong. That shouldn't be hard. And if they can use the argument that I did as well, maybe they wouldn't have to pay me. But what can I say I did wrong? Nothing. Now as for my doctor, that's a different story. They might be able to say they recommended not prescribing over for weeks. They could say the doctor knew the risk. Well if that's the case, I guess I would be trying the doctor after losing that case. So I mean, money doesn't really go anywhere. It Just hires a good lawyer for the company. I could do the same, I could get the best lawyer there is, and I would still have the same argument. And they could have the worst lawyer there is, and they would be more likely to lose. Money doesn't make a lawyer good or bad at their job. Knowledge does. And the judge isn't going to change rules or laws. However, I know what you're saying. All I'm saying is that this is basically a clear case of if Genentech made a medicine that caused financial difficulties and it's pretty clear that the answer is yes. It's just a hard thing to find a lawyer for it because of that very mentality, that it's impossible to go against big Pharma. People are scared for no reason.

[[Jo...]]

Well first off, I agree of course there's going to be an argument from the other side. But there's nothing for them to say I did wrong. It was my choice to get off of them, and I didn't have any drugs or alcohol in my system.

 

And yes, people do win against big Pharma all the time. Big Pharma pays out tons and tons of money every day just about. And I don't care about somebody on medicating normal to be honest. They have nothing to do with me, and everybody's story is different. Also, I wasn't taking psychiatric medicine like them, I was taking neurological medicine. So for those of you being positive, I appreciate it. There's nothing to be scared of, and there's no reason not to do it. All I have is time on my hands. And the reason I have time on my hands, is because of the medicine. So everything works in my favor and works against them.

 

Yeah, normally doctors do that. They normally try to blame me for anything that doesn't go your way, and use doing things wrong against you. But in this case, Klonopin was prescribed to me from 2018 until 2019. I did not have any drugs or alcohol in my system during that time. I was prescribed an extremely large dose, 16 half milligram tablets a day. That's eight milligrams a day. And it was prescribed for over 4 weeks, almost an entire year. So that was too long.

 

If I had pre-existing mental health conditions, they should not have prescribed them because I ended up in the hospital multiple times from them. But it was prescribed for neurological reasons, not psychiatric reasons. So I think everything that happened which ended me up in the psychiatric hospital was completely due to the Klonopin. But if I really had been extremely depressed, they should not have been prescribing a depressant.

 

I ended up calling up my doctor and telling them I wanted to be off of my meds. We talked through the phone and over the Internet for several months trying to figure out the best route of getting off of them. They were making me suicidal at the time. So it was very important that I got off of them immediately. It was my decision to get off of them, not the doctors.

 

And then really bad things happened because of them. And then I was in the hospital multiple times again and eventually discharged home because they couldn't figure out any other meds that worked. And now, I'm really close to being back to normal. So because of that, the doctor prescribed meds incorrectly and the way they should not have.

 

So that's a problem on the doctors part. If for some reason it's not the doctor's fault, that means it's the pharmaceutical company's fault. I didn't have those problems on valium, just clonazepam. So the way the lawyer described it was it's not an auto accident but you still have to go after the insurance company. In my case, the insurance of the doctor. Or possibly Insurance of Genentech. Of course they're not going to pay out millions or anyting, but they would gladly pay some medical bills and rent and stuff as opposed to Millions. That's what they do, they pay out little bits of money in hopes that they don't get sued. That's why it's called an insurance settlement. And I'm going after it.

 

It's not like I'm asking for money Beyond what they owe me. Just the hundreds of thousands that they do. Legit bills. And if there was more people involved, it would be really easy to do a class action as well I'm sure. A few months ago I inquired about that on here, but I was told I can't share information on here. So the moderator edited my post. I don't know how anybody on here is ever supposed to accomplish that, maybe there's another way to do it. But if I have success, I can always post their information. There's no rules on here against posting my lawyers information. So I will keep you guys up to date.

 

I have a couple of lawyers in Florida reviewing my case and a couple of here in North Carolina and I had reached out to some others as well but some of them are saying they can only practice in the same state that they reside. Either way, my doctors are on my side and the company can't go against medical doctors, and the company can't tell the pharmacist and therapist that they are wrong either.

 

So that's three professionals going against whoever wants to make an argument on their side.

 

The only person who will make a dime on this is the attorney getting your hopes up.

[[Re...]]

[quote author=Joyatlast51

 

The only person who will make a dime on this is the attorney getting your hopes up.

 

Agreed

[[Ju...]]

Well, if you don't have any money, you can't pay the lawyer. So the only way a lawyer is going to get paid is if I win. Maybe that's why they don't want to take a case.

[[Re...]]

Well, if you don't have any money, you can't pay the lawyer. So the only way a lawyer is going to get paid is if I win. Maybe that's why they don't want to take a case.

 

What makes you think a lawyer will pick up the case for free and work on it for God knows how many years and outcome?

[[Ju...]]

I don't think that, and that's why they've recommended doing a mass tort or class action. I've contacted several and they all say exactly that, that they won't spend time and money unless they're going to win. So basically, if we had money we would win, but then have to cough up fees for the lawyer.

[[Ag...]]

I'm glad to hear that. How many months off of your benzos were you when you had your MRI? And did you cold turkey or taper? I have a feeling if I had had an MRI during my cold turkey symptoms from Klonopin, it would have shown something. It still might.

 

Hi JustInTime,

I am someone who has had a brain MRI scan and a PET scan during the time I have been affected by benzo harm.  I believed I had a Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) from physical blunt trauma injury to my head.

 

I had a CAT scan of my head in hospital at time of the trauma - Sept 2017 and it showed up normal. 

Shortly afterwards I was diagnosed with PTSD from the trauma event.  But I also believed I was suffering from TBI.  Medical providers and my insurers would not accept this, so I was unable to access rehab or support. 

 

Eighteen months later (April 2019), I was still trying to get medical providers and insurance to recognise that I was suffering from a TBI.  By this time I had already been impacted by a medication toxicity and (in hindsight) was suffering from benzo harm after being on Benzo's for about a year by then. 

 

I was sent to get a Brain MRI and also a PET brain scan (this one followed flow of something injected in my body to highlight areas of reduced activity or blood flow to my brain). 

 

The MRI showed white matter damage, consistent with a TBI.

The PET scan showed hypoperfusion (decreased blood flow) and hypo metabolism (decreased activity) to both sides of the frontal lobe of my brain.  Confirming the cause of the symptoms of my loss of executive function, being attributable not just to PTSD, but to a concurrent TBI.  Or so I thought . . .

 

I then had to wait a further 6 months to get the scans reviewed by someone (A specialist Neurologist) who would determine whether or not I had a TBI.  As This was by now backed up by the scans in conjunctions with my symptoms and the index event, it seemed indisputable. 

 

But the Neurologist concluded that the MRI white-matter's 'lack of integrity' evidenced a 'mild' TBI which may or may not be responsible for symptoms he preferred to attribute solely to PTSD.  AND he didn't accept that the PET scan results (showing clear frontal lobe dysfunction) were necessarily or even at all related to the blunt trauma my head sustained at the time I was first injured in Sept 2017.  He suggested that the hypo-perfusion and hypo-metabolism in my frontal lobe might originate from a Psychiatric/Neurological condition whose cause he couldn't determine.  (!!).

 

His findings are pretty outrageous, because in the face of my having a known and excessive blunt trauma injury to my head, he is trying to infer that the PET scan results are related to PTSD not TBI.

He also cited PTSD as the cause of a movement disorder I sustained from medication toxicity in March 2018.  I'm not aware of there being any confirmed diagnosis of PTSD from MRI or brain imaging as this kind of research is still in development.  From what I understand PTSD brain scans are more concerned with shrinking of amydala (?) versus frontal lobe dysfunction.  So, it would appear that this Neurologist is just aligning with the commercial interests of my insurance company who paid him to write his report.

 

From my point of view, the evidence of injury to my brain that shows up so clearly on MRI proves that I am suffering a TBI, and it probably isn't possible to extrapolate to what extent that is a result of the blunt trauma, PTSD, Benzo harm (?) or a combination of all three.  I asked the Neurolgist questions about the possible impact of Benzos in all of this but he refused to answer my questions as the insurer hadn't sanctioned them.

 

I thought having the Brain imaging would help with accurate diagnosis so that my injuries would no longer be denied.  But the denial and it's harm continues though the corporate model of health care where I live.

 

I only waded in on your post because you seemed interested to know if anyone had had an MRI after benzo harm.  I have.  But with my historic of blunt trauma to my head, the results can't be read as evidence that benzo has caused brain damage. 

 

I realise these things become important when you are dealing with litigation and insurers, but trying to get 'officials' to accept what I have known to be true, even when it is supported by imaging, has taxed me and my recovery incredibly. 

 

The most recovery I have gained is since I stopped taking Benzos and gave up trying to prove stuff to people with commercial interests to protect.  I don't care what they think anymore, but that is only because I finally managed to gain some economic support to relieve me of the devastation my injuries have caused.  Before then, fighting for acknowledgement and accountability were very much part of my recovery and survival journey.

 

I wish you all the very best.

 

 

[[Be...]]

Agentic, sorry you have abnormal brain scans.  Thanks for the information.  I read about others having abnormal scans too.

[[Ju...]]

That's pretty wild that doctors just pick something that is in the book or on the computer so that it can get reimbursed. And it sounds like you actually had physical evidence, but he's blaming it all on PTSD instead of taking other things into account. He's probably partially right but I guess there's more to it than that. Sorry about that, sounds like you had a sure scan. I was thinking about doing that as well but I guess there's not much of a point if that's what doctors are going to do. Did you cold turkey? My guess is that cold turkey does a lot more damage to white matter and the Brain because of more stress compared to a tapir. Whenever I first cold turkey my Klonopin, I could have sworn I could feel huge blood flow and pressure in my brain and my head and ears. Felt like it was going to explode. Which reminds me, I had a conversation with a friend not long ago about how if you drink a lot of alcohol day after day, you get a severe hangover and sometimes you even get a blood vessel in your cheek or eye and you get a red eye. And alcohol and benzos work similar, so wouldn't surprise me. I don't even know I just feel like I'm rambling at this point but these meds do a lot of damage to say the least.

[[Be...]]

I used to drink alot of booze before I took the benzo's and never had much of a problem with the booze and functioning and I even quit drinking cold turkey.  It was a walk in the park getting off the booze, and I had no after effects whatsoever after I stopped drinking and no damage of any sort.  After getting off the benzo's, I'm a complete wreck now.  These benzo's have damaged me beyond description.  The benzo's have nearly destroyed my CNS.  The booze and the benzo's worked very differently in my body.  The benzo's did severe damage and the booze didn't do any damage.

[[Ju...]]

Yeah they say booze and benzos work the same but they don't. Alcohol withdrawal doesn't last long at all, a couple weeks at most. I've been through it a million times. The best way I can describe it is nasty. It's like a long hangover and dehydration and all kinds of other things that come along with it, but not years of synthetic symptoms.

[[J ...]]

Hey, I am a long term user of Clonazepam and I too was injured. Lost two jobs, my wife, stained relationship with my daughter, my house, many friends. I cant focus or concentrate for long periods of time. As an electrical engineer concentrating is important. I once was a jovial guy that loved life b4 sleep issues led me to clonazepam...

 

I would ask the dr. (term used loosely) to get me off, he said we would retire together...my last visit was for one last script of 0.5mg which was different. He asked what was up so I had to tell him I was tapering. He said to come back to let him know it went....what an ass!!!!

 

I am 13 months out but still damaged in some ways. I will never be normal again! I want them to pay!

 

J Stone (Ron)

[[Ju...]]

Clonazepam is a strong drug. I was on both that and diazepam on and off throughout my life, switching them both up. I went to detox about five times and cold turkey to myself about three times throughout the 20 years I took them. 9 1/2 months ago I cold turkey them. It's been hell on Earth to say the least. And I've got a huge strain of mistakes that I'm dealing with also , not so much different than yours.

[[Pt...]]

I used to drink alot of booze before I took the benzo's and never had much of a problem with the booze and functioning and I even quit drinking cold turkey.  It was a walk in the park getting off the booze, and I had no after effects whatsoever after I stopped drinking and no damage of any sort.  After getting off the benzo's, I'm a complete wreck now.  These benzo's have damaged me beyond description.  The benzo's have nearly destroyed my CNS.  The booze and the benzo's worked very differently in my body.  The benzo's did severe damage and the booze didn't do any damage.

 

Exactly what my experience was like too. Scientifically, they may “act on the same receptors” but there is way more to the picture than that

[[Ju...]]

I agree that there is way more to the picture than that. All they know is that it acts on the same receptors, and it affects glutamate and Gaba. They really don't know anything else other than that, as far as I'm aware.

[[Be...]]

What I read about booze and benzo's a long time ago was that alcohol floods the receptors and is not specifically targeting any area.  Booze have been around for thousands of years and is more natural.  Benzo's are synthetic and designed to hit the nerve cells in a deeper and more specific way, is what I learned.

[[Ju...]]

That makes sense. Alcohol is also an anesthetic and it can give you energy and it can create psychosis, it can give you hallucinations, and it has carbs and its food. Not healthy food but you know what I'm saying. It also dehydrates you and ruins your stomach, but there's a lot of other things I can think of that it does. It makes people horny. It makes people tell lies and also tell the truth. I could probably keep going about a million other things it does and how it makes you feel, which is all completely different than benzos. The thing that I find that's most different about it, is how it impairs you and you can feel the impairment. Like getting so-called drunk. Benzos never got me drunk or really impaired me much, they just dumb me down. Either way all Gaba drugs are really bad and I hope they figure out what else is involved with benzos because there's definitely more to it than just Gaba and glutamate. They need to figure out why it's causing such extended withdrawal or brain injury.

[[Ma...]]

Just began to study biochemistry. It is really interesting which genes stimulate which chane of enzymes and what "detoxing" really means in the body. What I have learned the last 8 hours was so complicated my brain is on fire..

but it has also answered many of my questions about why some people react different on medication or have a shorter hangover from alcohol and so on, - so I will try to be a good student no matter how complicated the topics become.

Overall I am sad about how many times I was told how one has "to detox" - made no sense at all and now I understand why.

But it also shows that my gut was right, to fill up mineral levels first, then look at the body processes and the chains the body needs for a single process.

Seems one has to become an expert in biology, biochemistry and so much more fields to understand or just get a glimpse of understanding what is going on when you have taken these meds. I am happy I have now professionals I can ask all my questions and for them that's not a big deal - nomral doctors don't have this wide knowledge (not their fault, by the way).. In June there will be a congress about the brain and the connection between receptors and chains of enzymes and so on.. I hope I can study enough until then and understand a little bit .. had to get some chemistry books as well to find back into what I once learned.

 

Just my way to get a bigger picture of what is going on.. Someone else out there doing the same or studying something similar?

[[Me...]]

No doctor or scientist will care enough to study the reason for PAWS until there’s enough lawsuits filed to warrant an investigation.

[[Ju...]]

I have listened to a pharmacologist on the matter on whatever YouTube video that was about benzos, I don't have the link. He was talking about what he knows, and then there's the people talking about what they knew with barbiturates. They act really similar.