Best of Both Worlds. Anyone tackling opiates as well?

[[si...]]

I take no meds.

Yes it has been very hard also dealing with the loses in my life of relationships, finances and losing a lifetime of accomplishments.

I have found there are no silver bullets to shorten the healing process.

I eat good nutrition, stay busy, learn how to divert your mind away from the darkness, rest as much as possible.

I have found that time is the only thing that heals.

[[Da...]]

I am on 8mg of Subutex (Suboxone's British cousin) because I became accidentally dependent on OTC Codeine pain pills back in 2009. This was the start of a very downward spiral for me and lead into Benzo addiction too. I have met a lot of drug users via the service I have to use for the Subutex, a lot of them are lovely people despite their difficulties, but I've yet to meet anyone in Benzo WD off this forum. I think a lot of them who are on a legit Benzo script choose to stay on them, knowing what the alternative is!. To be honest, I don't blame them.

 

I am starting an extremely slow taper from the Subutex this month, dropping 0.4mg so we can split the dose into several tablets and I can begin reducing at my own rate. I intend to do it extremely slowly, because the mistake I made with the Benzos landed me in hell. I was forced to R/T them because of changing laws regarding designer drugs/psychoactive substances and unreal pressure from the addiction agency who have no clue about Benzo WD and have told me I should NOT be getting symptoms after TWO WEEKS and that I show 'no signs of withdrawal'. When they did see me back in acute in September they just noted I didn't 'make good eye contact' and 'appeared unwell as a result of ongoing Benzodiazepine abuse', because it was only three weeks out from my jump and my U/A drug test was still positive for Benzos.

 

I do feel the Subutex may now be adding to my already long list of health problems.

 

I thought the Codeine was the worst problem I had ever faced. I wish I had CT-ed it while I was on a really low dose, but hindsight is no use now. I wish I could have done a proper S/T from the stupid high dose of Benzos I was on, I wish I'd made more effort trying to get medical assistance when I was refused it, I wish a lot of things. I am still trying to work out what a problem actually is, and apart from losing both my biological dad and my stepdad to terminal cancer, I am unsure I've actually faced many problems outside of Benzo WD.

 

Being dependent on any substance is miserable and soul destroying, but I sometimes feel all my issues are self inflicted, therefore I have no right to complain.

[[Sh...]]

I'm finding it difficult to stay away from some sort of opiate. This recovery from benzos is just so brutal. I feel emotionally dead all the time and I get a good feeling from opiates. I have definitely kicked the oxy and am not going back. So I'm happy with that. But I find myself pulling towards codeine now. Atleast codeine is 15x weaker than oxy (according to equivalency charts) so it's the lesser of two evils.

 

This whole thing is a shit show. I don't want to take pills anymore. But I feel I need to take SOMETHING. And it's not going to be an AD or SSRI.

[[bu...]]

I take no meds.

Yes it has been very hard also dealing with the loses in my life of relationships, finances and losing a lifetime of accomplishments.

I have found there are no silver bullets to shorten the healing process.

I eat good nutrition, stay busy, learn how to divert your mind away from the darkness, rest as much as possible.

I have found that time is the only thing that heals.

 

You're definitely right that there's no silver bullet or quick fix for this process.  There are a lot of challenging things you go through getting off these medications, but it's all worth it in the end.  At least you're off of everything and get to start healing.

[[kc...]]

I took Norco for 6 weeks as a result of knee replacement surgery, but began the tapering process at around week 3, so it wasn't fun but it wasn't awful. But I didn't use them for very long. I will say that the discipline I learned from tapering off Ativan was very helpful. There were many times during my Norco taper and the first couple of weeks after where the thought of reduced pain and the feeling of calmness that I got from Norco made taking an extra pill seem very enticing.  But I resisted. Have been off them for 5 weeks now. But suffering from raging insomnia. Probably a w/d effect of the Norco.

[[si...]]

My advice is get off the opiates and taper the benzos. It will be painful, but worth it in the end.

 

I hit tolerance on both, so I was in withdrawal all the time no matter how much I took of anything. Don't let yourself get to that point it makes everything so much worse, living between a rock and a hard place.

[[bu...]]

I will say that the discipline I learned from tapering off Ativan was very helpful.

 

I'm the other way around.  The discipline I've gained from tapering opiates has really helped me with the benzos.

[[of...]]

Are you taking suboxone? That was the second hardest drug ive ever kicked

[[bu...]]

Are you taking suboxone? That was the second hardest drug ive ever kicked

 

I'm on 16mg of Suboxone and was hoping to be off that by the middle of the summer.  How tough was it and how much did you come off of?  Some people say it's the hardest drug they've ever kicked, and others say it's a breeze.  I've kicked quite a few opiates and it seems to be one of the more mild ones to me.

[[of...]]

I weaned down to 4 mg then jumped. I was on 24 mg at one point. .. I just remember it never letting up. It brings you to a certain level of pain and agitation and then it just leaves you there for months. Its a tough one man. I would wean down to less than .25 and spread out the .25 every three days before you jump. There's no reason to suffer if you dont have to

[[bu...]]

I weaned down to 4 mg then jumped. I was on 24 mg at one point. .. I just remember it never letting up. It brings you to a certain level of pain and agitation and then it just leaves you there for months. Its a tough one man. I would wean down to less than .25 and spread out the .25 every three days before you jump. There's no reason to suffer if you dont have to

 

Damn, jumping from 4mg is a pretty rough one.  How long did it take you to get from 24 down to 4?  I'm planning on taking it down to at least .5mg.  I've heard when you jump the detox isn't that bad but like you said it goes on forever.  How long until you started to feel better after you jumped?

[[of...]]

I weaned from 24mg to 4 mg over a year. The depression is the thing that really hangs on to ya. Atleast for me. The knee pain for me lasted about 18 months. I was so screwed up on subs and xanax i'm not even sure which one got me more than the other. I jumped off both around the same time early 2014.

[[bu...]]

I weaned from 24mg to 4 mg over a year. The depression is the thing that really hangs on to ya. Atleast for me. The knee pain for me lasted about 18 months. I was so screwed up on subs and xanax i'm not even sure which one got me more than the other. I jumped off both around the same time early 2014.

 

I definitely think the benzos screw with your body more.  When I was just on Suboxone I was still energetic and able to work out, in a good mood, and able to hold a job.  Now that I'm on Valium that's all changed.  Getting off both at the same time must have been super rough.  I'll bet if you would have just done the Suboxone by itself it wouldn't have been so bad.  What kind of drops did you do with the Suboxone, and how often?  I'm thinking a mg a week until I get down to 4mg or so and then slow things down there.

[[of...]]

I was dropping .25 every 5 days or so. If i started sneezing alot and feeling achy then i would take a half a .25 one day and then hold at my original dose. I still have dreams about finding a strip in my house and taking it. Then i somehow feel amazing in my dream and even when i wake up i feel good which is pretty wierd. Yeah man it was brutal. I blanked out for a good 2 years there. I pretty much cut off emotionally.  Still numb too but i'm just now feeling like i'm close to being healed from all of this garbage. Sorry for the scattered response i'm exhausted

[[si...]]

I went from subs back to oxy, for about a year and then ct the oxy, and then started tapering the benzos. I didn't plan it that way, it is just how it worked out. That was 3.5 years ago.

Pretty sure the symptoms I am dealing with now are from benzos. Being 18 months off benzos.

It was hard to say which drug caused what problem in the beginning.

But since I have been off of all drugs the path is becoming clearer. It has been like pulling back the layers of hell just to get to the light.

I never dreamed the amount of time this has taken and the amount of suffering.

 

I do know.The combination of benzos and opiates is a dead end road. I know that for sure.

[[of...]]

Benzos and opiates mixed is considered synergistic.  So its not 1+1=2. Its 1+1=6. Its incredibly bad for the brain.

[[si...]]

I read somewhere that benzos and opiates should never be taken together a deadly combination.

If this is true, how where we given scripts every month?

[[bu...]]

I read somewhere that benzos and opiates should never be taken together a deadly combination.

If this is true, how where we given scripts every month?

 

Although it is true that opiates and benzos potentiate each other very strongly and cause the majority of overdose deaths, I think the danger is a little exaggerated.  As long as you're taking a prescribed amount the chances of it killing you are pretty slim.  And if you have a tolerance to either, especially the opiates, then it's even tougher to overdose.  Not that I'm advocating this of course, but I used to inject heroin with no tolerance to opiates, pop benzos, and I've never had an actual overdose.  The combination of Suboxone and benzos is EXTREMELY overstated.  Suboxone has such a low ceiling effect that it's very safe, even if taken with benzos.  As far as long term effects that could be a different story.

[[si...]]

I agree with you, I never felt like I was going to overdose and die, even when I was taking large amounts of both.

My problem is with the damage these do long term and the lack of knowledge from most of the dr perscribing them. Very few of them seem to know what to do with people that hit tolerance at any level and fall into years of living hell getting off and healing from this stuff.

It is very possible that if I could have continued to get relief from these drugs I would still be taking them. While they were working life was pretty good.

I am not placing all the blame on the medical field just the lack of knowledge how this ends up after long term use.

After all no one had a gun at my head to take these drugs, I took them because they made me feel better.

[[bu...]]

It pisses me off how easily doctors can (and do) prescribe these drugs, but when it comes to getting off of them most are completely clueless.  There's a lady I know who was taking hydromorphone (Dilaudid) and Klonopin & Xanax for years, and she claims that it got to the point that her breathing was starting to shut down so she had to rapid detox off of both.  That doesn't make much sense to me because you would think that your body would adjust to the presence of the drugs over time, but that's what she said.  The other thing that's frustrating is both opiates and benzos have legit medical uses and give you a lot of relief, but they should never be prescribed to be taken everyday which happens all the time.  Sometimes I worry about the long term effects of taking these drugs, not too often though.  Your body is so resilient and bounce back from some really traumatic things.

[[Sh...]]

It's an absolute joke really. The whole thing. I got slammed with chronic pain years ago so I can kind of justify how I got started with this whole thing. But it doesn't excuse the doctors prescribing me these heavy drugs like valium and oxycodone day after day and punishing my brain. No one explained in detail the long term damage it can do and I've now been suffering for a year straight. I feel shame and guilt for going down this path and damaging my body. The only saving grace is that the brain heals wonderfully so I can put this behind me. It's not the simple though. The long term habits stay with you and are hard to break. So now the addiction is a long term battle.

[[bu...]]

It's an absolute joke really. The whole thing. I got slammed with chronic pain years ago so I can kind of justify how I got started with this whole thing. But it doesn't excuse the doctors prescribing me these heavy drugs like valium and oxycodone day after day and punishing my brain. No one explained in detail the long term damage it can do and I've now been suffering for a year straight. I feel shame and guilt for going down this path and damaging my body. The only saving grace is that the brain heals wonderfully so I can put this behind me. It's not the simple though. The long term habits stay with you and are hard to break. So now the addiction is a long term battle.

 

That is a rough one.  I really feel for people like you that put their trust in a doctor, which is what so many people do.  I'm actually an addict who took these drugs on myself, and even though I feel a lot of guilt and regret at least I don't have a bunch of resentment towards some doctor that screwed me over.  You're off of everything, so that's something.  Your body will heal with time.  It may seem like forever but it will happen.

[[Sh...]]

I'm pretty close already. I'm 8 months off and have been getting better and better. It was more my fault than anything that I kept taking them and got addicted...but at the time you don't understand how hard it will be to quit for good. I don't resent the docs much...just that they didn't make it clear how bad things could get. I'm more frustrated at myself that I have trouble breaking the cycle of addiction. I'll never go back to benzos, but throughout the last 8 months I've taken addictive stuff like oxy and codeine to help me escape. And that habbit was formed from the chronic pain I got hit with in 2011. I'm not in pain at all anymore. But the habit remains...How do you find the addiction?

[[bu...]]

Being off the benzos is the biggy and you should be healed up completely from those pretty soon.  I'll never take another one again either.  They're just too dangerous and not worth the risk.  Opiates are a tough addiction.  I tried pretty much every drug under the sun and never had a problem with any of them, but then came opiates.  Like most people I started out popping pills and liked the feeling, but always wanted something stronger.  When I found heroin and the injecting process it was over.  So you just take opiates here and there?  I'll admit it's going to be tough for me when I get off of Suboxone not to relapse because it takes away cravings and blocks other opiates.  You can also take them a month or two after detoxing and it won't send you back to square one like benzos do.  And when you don't have a tolerance it's hard not to relapse because you get high so easily and don't have to worry about withdrawals, as long as you don't do them too often.  For the first 3 years I did heroin once a week at the very most and I can't lie, it was fun.  So I don't know what it takes to stay away from them.  When you have to for whatever reason it gives you some motivation, but when you take them sparingly they really do their job well.  That's how they were meant to be taken too.  Maybe it's not a super bad thing if you take them for pain once in a while.  You have to know when things start to get out of hand and you have to cool it though.

[[of...]]

My cousin started out on lortabs in 2008. My grandfather had heart surgery. I remember him taking a few of them then the bottle dissapeared with like 100 pills. Now he's on heroin. In 2008 he played for the university of maine as the starting qb. Now he's homeless. Its crazy. I know why he's doing it too. He lives for the rush. The rush of getting it and the rush of doing it. The process.. That's how i remember my addiction.. The process of getting drugs was exciting. I digress alot