18 - 30 Month Plus Group

[[dr...]]

Thanks ladies....I was referring to people who said they were more than five years healed.  . Oh well...onward I go. 

 

 

Wedding planning is moving right along.  Now that I feel better I'm actually excited and looking forward to going as opposed to being fearful.  Fingers crossed I'm okay when I go but regardless I'll do what needs to be done.

 

Proud of you coop and korbe. 

 

Coop-that knowing we will heal is wonderful. Even on crappy days like today the lack of doubt makes it so much easier. I really just need to stay off the general board though. Always a shitshow story for my brain to lartch on too.

[[Co...]]

Drew, yes....the general board is spooky....I love it that our group has given each other the opportunity to follow each other daily over a long ( too long) period of time.

    You are going to have a wonderful time at your wedding...

[[Si...]]

Yep drew, hoping that the time change doesn't screw me up too much. Those stories about set backs scare the crap out of me too. I try to avoid reading any of those sort of posts too. My wife passed out at 9pm. Oh what I would give to have her ability to sleep well.

 

Korbe, congrats on 24. It's good you have a little friend around to keep you company.

[[No...]]

Good Morning ... had a bumpy day on Monday ... I am thinking that antibiotic gave me a pretty good kick ... oh well ... it too will pass ...

 

Congrats to the anniversary folks ... 

 

[[Se...]]

Hi, all.  Back in the black abyss.  Suicide ideation, screaming tinnitus, monster nightmares, brutal depression, anxiety, blah, blah, blah.  All the stuff we deal with on a daily basis that would, I'm sure, send anyone else who had to suffer it for a day (heck, an hour), screaming for their mommy.  Dear heavens.

 

I feel tethered to my bed.  Pushed down by a sinister force.  :'(  Maybe I can try to get up and take a walk around or something.  I don't know.  I can't sleep, but don't want to be awake.  I keep thinking maybe I'm keeping this going, by not taking better care of myself and trying to do more things.  Thing is, the nature of depression is exactly that, isn't it.  It's nearly impossible to feed and bathe yourself at times, let alone "do things."

 

Sure hope everyone else is faring better than I.

 

I got nothin' else.

[[No...]]

Serenity ... hmmm ... I don't believe you are keeping this going ... that is a benzo lie ...

 

You are in a dark, heavy place right now ... and it will pass ... just can't say when ... we always come back to the surface in time ...

 

Little things ... as best you can ... and I know the can't sleep and don't want to be awake place ... it is dreadful ...

 

This day after day wave will pass for you ... I promise ... 

[[No...]]

Well ... today is a little better than yesterday ... had a walk and did not feel like I was dragging sixty tons around with me ... did some cooking ... mostly just hanging out until the rest of this stuff lets go ... 

[[Mi...]]

Ugh....  Trying to keep health fears at a minimum today! As this dreaded anxiety is trying to swallow me!  So far I have been able to stay a float!  But damn this adrenaline rush, achy ness, stomach pain and burping reflux has got to end!       

 

I am able mentally to keep this from exploding into a massive panic attack but boy my physical sx are trying to knock me down!  I really hate these pains in the arms and chest as they like to mimic what I would imagine a heart attack!  I keep reminding myself I have had all the cardio work up saw a cardiologist about a year ago but damn this shit is scary sometimes!  Oh and not to mention the heat waves going through my body! It's like I have acid in my veins! 

 

Sorry everyone! 

[[Se...]]

Serenity ... hmmm ... I don't believe you are keeping this going ... that is a benzo lie ...

 

You are in a dark, heavy place right now ... and it will pass ... just can't say when ... we always come back to the surface in time ...

 

Little things ... as best you can ... and I know the can't sleep and don't want to be awake place ... it is dreadful ...

 

This day after day wave will pass for you ... I promise ... 

 

Thanks, Nova.  Dark & heavy place, yes.  Little things.  As best I can.  That is all I can do.

 

Appreciate your support. 

[[Te...]]

Ok....just need to let this off my chest...got my son a lawyer...1500.00 cause he got pulled over and he told policeman he took a xanax.....ugh....so sad and worried he took the pill cause he has a sinus infection and pink eye....it's a mess....and got a bad cold this  weekend....due to these two issues my symptoms have worsen....then darn read the post about a buddie many years out  having  symptoms return after having a tooth  pulled...heck Monday I'm going to be numbed and having some salsivary gland biospied .....again cause of the abnormal biospy done this summer...feel no matter what I do....eat.....touch....feel...is screwing with recovery.....

Sorry.....TM

[[Mi...]]

Ugh....  I have my mind back but my body doesn't want to cooperate!   

 

Texas Mama, so sorry! As if we are not stressed enough!

 

Serenity, keep holding on the depression lifts! I promise! 

 

Now if this anxiety which I can actually feel is chemical now! Would take a hike and let my body be, that would be great!  This physical stuff blows! 

[[mr...]]

Ok....just need to let this off my chest...got my son a lawyer...1500.00 cause he got pulled over and he told policeman he took a xanax.....ugh....so sad and worried he took the pill cause he has a sinus infection and pink eye....it's a mess....and got a bad cold this  weekend....due to these two issues my symptoms have worsen....then darn read the post about a buddie many years out  having  symptoms return after having a tooth  pulled...heck Monday I'm going to be numbed and having some salsivary gland biospied .....again cause of the abnormal biospy done this summer...feel no matter what I do....eat.....touch....feel...is screwing with recovery.....

Sorry.....TM

 

TM,

 

This was some things that helped me take a balanced approach to other posts I read...

 

In regards to other's posts that I found concerning, I often found that I didn't know enough of the "story behind the story" to justify valid concern.  The following are my personal experiences with reading posts similar to what you read on this site, during my years of being a part of this forum:

 

1.) I read of a buddy who, after 4 years free and two years of being healed, posted about a "major setback" that occurred and rebirthed many of her symptoms.  Upon reading her first post, it seemed as though it happened "without cause".  Her first post only indicated her suffering and frustrations, and not much of what happened.  Come to find out later on, she had been pregnant and had to undergo a caesarean section where they used many medications, including benzodiazepines, for the procedure.  She then took pain medicine for a couple weeks after the c-section, and stopped.  It's no wonder she experienced symptoms!

 

2.) I once read of another buddy who posted in the Anxiety section about how he'd been over two years off and still experiencing anxiety, panic, and many other strong withdrawal symptoms.  Totally concerned me at the time!  But then, after reading his posts for a few weeks thereafter, I found out that he admitted to taking 3-4mg of a z-drug every night since he quit benzos for sleep!!  Hello?  (Notedly, I mentioned to him that taking a z-drug is almost the same as taking a benzo, and that this was most likely why he was still experiencing symptoms.  He never acknowledged me, and I saw him posting again about "not knowing why he still had anxiety after all this time".  Hmm.)

 

3.) I also read of another buddy who, after 2 1/2 years off, "suddenly" started experiencing anxiety and panic attacks "out of the blue".  Later, she admitted to dabbling in recreational drugs with her friends a couple weeks prior, and was embarrassed to admit that in her original post.  (Whaaaa?!?...)

 

4.) Another buddy came back to post about how he was over two years benzodiazepine-free, and just now experiencing "acute withdrawal".  Only to find out later that he had replaced benzodiazepines with drinking, and had just quit drinking a week or two earlier.  Enter acute (like) withdrawal (of course). 

 

5.) Another buddy had been struggling, being 4-5 years off, and still "highly symptomatic".  He was adamant that he'd abstained from "all drugs", etc...for me to find out later that he'd been smoking marijuana ~ except to him, he didn't "count" that as a "drug" because it's "natural".  Really?!  C'mon...

 

TM, IMO, there are so many factors that can affect experiencing a "setback".  Our most recent buddy, Dezlaz, admitted to drinking wine casually on the weekends for months before her setback occurred, which was initiated by an antibiotic (or, the antibiotic was the "straw that broke the camel's back" so to speak, however you wish to view it).  It was easy to jump on the bandwagon and just "blame" the antibiotic, as many buddies did (and have), however there were other factors that went into her setback occurring, just like she said.  Matt Samet talks a lot about his setback similarly ~ that he'd been engaging in abusing his body for almost an entire year before a setback occurred, drinking 4-5 espresso shots per day and staying up late, etc. I believe this to be true for many buddies who experience setbacks.  Many buddies may, or may not, mention their usage of things like caffeine, alcohol, marijuana, because perhaps they are unaware that they could impact a setback.  Or, perhaps they are embarrassed about it, or perhaps they do not feel it is other people's business, etc.  The fact remains that we rarely know the "story behind the story", so it is hard to justify so much concern when we are unaware of these things.

 

Concerning the buddy who experienced an uptick in symptoms after a dental procedure, consider that we also do not know the whole story.  Were there things going on weeks/months prior that created a "perfect storm", or the "straw that broke the camel's back" with the dental procedure?  I've found that they commonly administer epinephrine alongside the numbing agents (like lidocaine), which acts similarly to adrenaline in the body ~ perhaps this was administered unknowingly to the buddy?  Also, they commonly use a medication called "Verstad" during dental procedures, which is a benzodiazepine ~ perhaps this was administered unknowingly as well?  We do not know for sure.  All we can do is take the information we do know, and make logical and informed decisions with our situation in order to help prevent unnecessary situations.  I have had multiple procedures that have used a numbing agent, and I have made sure to assert multiple times, to multiple medical staff involved in the procedures, that I do NOT want epinepherine alongside.  And I've had absolutely no issues post-procedures.  I've also had surgery in the midst of acute withdrawal, and I simply made sure to assert (again, multiple times to multiple individuals involved in the procedure) that I did NOT want any unnecessary medications administered, and absolutely under no circumstances should there be a benzodiazepine or fluroquinolone used.  I have done things like had the anesthesiologist read me the list of medications on my chart before they did the procedures, and then researched them myself quick in order to ensure a smooth recovery.  I caught them and stopped them from using a narcotic pain medication during my surgery to help prevent post-procedural pain.  I think all these things have helped me avoid unnecessary "setbacks".  I have experienced setbacks, of course, but I think I've helped to prevent others with using the information I've learned here about "common" "triggers" and applying it when applicable.

 

Long story short, TM: I don't think you have cause or reason to be truly concerned.  I think that if you are informed and prepared when you go in for your procedure on Monday, that you will be pleasantly surprised post-procedure.  Just remember that you are ALWAYS in the driver's seat, regarding your healthcare and your medical treatments, etc ~ you can always make the call to "do" or to "not do" anything.  So, if on Monday you review the medication(s) they would like to use with you and you are uncomfortable with one (or more) of them, you are free to make decisions that you see as best for your situation.  For me and my own situations using numbing agents during post-withdrawal, I have not had any issues with lidocaine as long as I did not have epinephrine administered alongside it.  This is just me and me personally, but I thought I would let you know.

 

I hope this has helped to provide some comfort to you, TM, for your procedure on Monday.  I know it's a bit "rambly", but I wanted to be sure to leave some sort of encouragement with you when I was finished   I also want to mention that I don't think any buddy who posts a "troublesome" post has any intention of creating "fear" or harm ~ nor do I think that they are intentionally trying to "leave out" important information when they post about their situations.  I think that they are just normal human beings who come here and post their concerns and feelings they are having in that moment, and I read nothing more or less into it than that.  Heck, there are times that I've come on here tempted to say something like "acute-like symptoms", but when I force myself to sit down and think about it for a moment, I realize that this isn't really the case at all, but that I was frustrated and upset in that moment.  I am sure other buddies can relate as well.

 

Honey, I think you're doing amazingly well, considering!   This is a marathon, for sure, and you are running yours quite well   Take care, and I look forward to hearing how well your procedure goes on Monday if I don't hear from you before then!

 

Mrs.

[[Te...]]

Mrs....thank you for the reply....beautifully said....it helps to see things from others...

 

Hugs! TM

 

Ms. Jen......thank you too.......have a great evening

[[so...]]

What a beautiful and generous post, Mrs.  It helped me too.

 

I have a question.  Do we always and forever have to be afraid of necessary meds, foods, a glass of wine?  Is there ever an end to the fear of everything?

[[mr...]]

What a beautiful and generous post, Mrs.  It helped me too.

 

I have a question.  Do we always and forever have to be afraid of necessary meds, foods, a glass of wine?  Is there ever an end to the fear of everything?

 

Hi Sofa,

 

For me, I believe that, yes, there is an end to the "fear" of those things. However, I will most likely assume myself as a "benzo recovered patient" long-term, and continue to make decisions with this in mind for many years post-healed (and perhaps forever). These decisions can, and will, be made without "fear" in mind, but with trying to practice wise and good self-care for the future.  I see our situation likened to a recovered alcoholic or a recovered drug addict, in that we would not expect one of these persons to return to their substances, or substances known to be like them (or interact with the same parts of the brain that the offending drug did, etc) without issues. If I had a friend who would try to do this, it would be of no surprise to me if they experienced some issues as a result. Likewise, I try to view myself in a similar regard, concerning my decisions with known possible "triggers" in my recovery.

 

I want to clarify that I do not see our situation as an "addiction", and my comparison to a recovering alcoholic or drug addict is not meant to compare in this area - only in the area of repeating "like" substances in the future I am a firm believer in the difference between "addiction" and "dependence", as I myself have never once "craved" a benzodiazepine (or any other drug [except chocolate ])

 

I hope this helps a bit, Sofa. It's some things I've decided for myself and that I try to keep in mind. Feel free to decide what is best for you and your situation, of course Have a great night!

 

Mrs.

[[No...]]

Mrs ... thank you for your posts ...

 

Knowledge and active self-protection are a necessity for me as well ...

 

And I have had cataract surgery on one eye and a full anesthesia procedure for a lymph node biopsy ... no side effects ... and no unnecessary drugs ...

 

Both times I could hear the "we know best" in the voices of the folks wanting to administer drugs ... and I just kept repeating my "needs" until they "got it" ... and having someone else present, an advocate, during these discussions was helpful ...

 

 

 

[[No...]]

Good morning ... well ... that is two nights in row of a good long, for me, sleep ... feeling a little rested .. and I would like to see a couple of months of this quality of sleep ...

 

Slowly getting untangled from the antibiotic ... the common wisdom is this will likely take two or three weeks ...

 

And it seems my neck spasms and right arm range of motion issues have taken a hike ... would like to find out where this stuff comes from and where it goes so I could permanently lock and bolt the room so they can't get out again ...

 

Hope we all have a quiet, restful day ... 

[[No...]]

Sofa ... for me this is mostly about choice ... and my choices often challenge me to be aware of this difference between my "needs" and my "wants" ...

 

Fear, for me, is often an indication that I should pay attention to what I am "choosing" ... and also an indication of my usual attempts to "get things right" all the time ...

 

When I can get out of "stress mode" and into "relax mode" it is usually easier to make my choices ...

 

And ... life is often a crap shoot ... we cannot know what is around every corner until we get around the corner ...

 

The "trick" for me is to not fear the process of having to make choices ... and the knowing that I am not going to always make the optimum choice ... only that I am trying to do the best I can each day ... my learning self compassion and self kindness has been a long and bumpy road ...

[[Mi...]]

Morning Everyone! 

 

What a wonderful post MRS.  Thanks!

 

Sofa keep holding on you are doing so so well at 12 months!

 

Nova, so extremely happy for you, rest is wonderful isn't it!

 

Well my baseline mentally is staying strong! Yesterday was rocky physically to say the least! Boy am I glade that is over! I even had pains in my fingers, crazy stuff!  Idk if anyone has experienced this but it seems after my biggest mental wave ended 2 wks ago this physical stuff now seems to wave in and out!  Yuk!  I truly haven't ever felt pains like I have been on and off! 

 

But so far today it's just been burping, reflux tummy lower back stuff!  At a lower level than yesterday so no complaining! Just crazy wired stuff!  Anyone else experience anything like this?

 

 

[[No...]]

Jen ... yep ... the physical stuff off and on ... and very good mental clarity ... reached the mental clarity place five or six months ago, maybe a little longer ...

 

And the physical stuff just keeps rolling in and out ... good days, bad days ... when it is really rough it feels like acute all over again ... when it is not so rough it feels like a nuisance ...

[[dr...]]

good morning all...I too have mostly the physical with much less on the mental.  The good news is that this seems to be the pattern so we can be assured "we are on course" to heal.  These past few days have been less than ideal.  I have had the brain fry stress thing and also eye stuff.  it is literally hard for me to look at things if that makes sense.  I seem to get some anxiety spikes/panic if I focus on it but trying to distract from the eye stuff.  It is hard to distract when looking at a tv, book, or even driving make me feel the weirdness...almost like focusing is painful.  Had it before and it will pass...it just sucks.  Carry on all...

[[Se...]]

Hi, guys.  Drew, the eye stuff.  Hmmm.  Mine is like the muscles attached to the eyeballs are frozen.  Movement is sluggish and it's just... not describable.  Just got back from a brisk walk.  Long time since I've walked, but glad I did.  Legs burned afterwards and my face feels like a mask pulled tight... like my entire face is full of local anaesthesia.    It won't last.  Never does.

 

Otherwise, hangin' in.  Mental symptoms still very bad here.  Just called my meditation group leader to advise I won't be there tomorrow.  Last week it was agony trying to sit through the meditations in a full group of folks while my tinnitus was screaming and inner restlessness causing me great discomfort.  Gonna take a break for a week. 

[[Mi...]]

Oh thank God! And thank you Drew and Nova!

 

I didn't know this is common as I try to stay off the main sight as much as possible!

So this physical stuff is normal after the mental sx subside a bit? 

And I am trying my best with the health fear stuff but I truly feel as if I have gotten ran over by a train!  Everything hurts! My stomach feels as if it's being invaded by aliens and there is a traveling pain that's running wild through my waist line to my neck! Like I am stabbed in the back then the chest and down my arms!  It's really scary stuff!  So I am sorry that your going through physical stuff to but does this sound normal?  I guess what keeps me from completely falling apart into a panic is that it seems to come and go! And I am praying if it were something extremely life threatening it wouldn't wave in and out?.. 

 

Thanks guys again! But this sounds normal to the two of you?

 

Also paleo diet! I was told by my naturopath to start that! I went organic for the most part and completely gluten free for the last year but am unfamiliar with paleo?  Do either of you two follow this diet? 

 

 

Thanks Again you will never know how much you guys have helped me stay a float! 

[[dr...]]

I made the paleo jump about a month ago.  It isn't too difficult if you already are gluten free.  I cheat with rice or corn stuff maybe two meals a week.  I felt much better after the switch but I am unsure if it was the normal progression of my healing(case with everything we try) or the paleo.

 

Everything you mention physically is normal.  Today I have a bit of face numbness, feels like my left right hand doesn't want to listen to my brain, and my upper torso feels like I'm in a corset(great mental pic ).  I don't worry about them as every time they came they left.  Miss Jen...you really need to trust your rational brain that you are healthy and just be as zen as possible with the symptoms.  Istill get bouts of anxiety and panic but I am not feeding them with more panic on top of it.  Stay well.

[[Mi...]]

Thanks much Drew!  Yes now that I have my rational mind back I am very much so trying to stay zen! Thank you again for the reassurance of the physical stuff! I made it through the dp, dr and complete psychosis so I will make it through this!  But it really helps to know the numbness ect isn't just me!  I am going to try my best to keep these Health fears at bay and not feed the anxiety thanks Drew!