The Dizziness Group: For those who are floating, boating, falling or flying

[[He...]]

Lapis.

Do you drive?

Do you regularly see a doctor and if so what kind?

[[La...]]

Healing seeker,

Have you considered crossing over to diazepam for your taper? I ask because Ativan/lorazepam has a short half-life, meaning its effects can decrease rather quickly in the body, which leaves you feeling anxious and needing another dose. Diazepam has a longer half-life and, as a result, doesn't cause the intense jags. I wasn't able to taper off clonazepam because I was getting major muscle spams and panic attacks. I switched to diazepam, and that settled down.

 

And no, I don't drive. And yes, I have a GP. In our system here, the GP is the main contact point, and then if you need a specialist, s/he would make that referral.

[[He...]]

3 mg of Ativan would mean 30 mg of Valium... too sedating. At this point

[[La...]]

Hi Healing seeker,

Have you checked out Ashton's crossover schedule for reducing from 3 mg lorazepam? There's a slow transition from one drug to the other. You don't do it all at once, so you wouldn't start by taking 30 mg of diazepam. If I were you, I'd definitely think about it, because the type of med you're taking might be making it much harder for you and making you more anxious. As far as dizziness goes, ANY of the benzos can cause dizziness. It's a fact. But if you're on a good, safe plan for gradually reducing the amount that you're taking, then you're closer to healing and feeling better. 

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm#s8 

 

 

[[He...]]

My doctor doesn't know about this and seems reluctant to put me on that much Valium.... isn't Valium just as hard to taper.

 

I have a friend who switched and regretted it

 

I'm so confused... she ended up wit agoraphobia

[[La...]]

Healing seeker,

It's really hard to know in advance how it will go for each person, but from a standpoint of logic, lorazepam's short half-life can make it much harder to taper. Diazepam saved me and made my taper much easier. You're already on some of it, it seems, so why would you be afraid to do the slow crossover that's outlined by Ashton?

 

I just printed out the schedule for my clonazepam crossover and taper, and brought it to my doctor. He gave me the prescription, and I took it from there. My muscle spasms and panic attacks settled down fairly quickly. It gave me a smoother ride.

 

 

[[He...]]

Who managed your taper. Your gp or a p doc ?  I'm tempted cause I'm miserable

[[La...]]

I really did it on my own, but as I say, I printed out the Ashton Manual, discussed it with my doctor by saying I wanted to taper slowly off my clonazepam, and I wanted to follow this particular schedule. We did the math of how many 2 mg tabs of diazepam I'd need, and he prescribed it for me. I just went for it. No BB. Just the Manual, and my desire to get that stuff out of my body in a safe, controlled way.

 

Had it not been for Prozac, I think things would have been much better for me. The interaction likely didn't help me at all. Then I had to do that second taper. 

[[La...]]

By the way, I was also still taking some lorazepam, as well as my clonazepam. It was on an "as needed" basis. I saw a psychiatrist for an assessment about six months after the dizziness started, and she asked about the lorazepam I was taking. She said, "If you're taking it more than three times a week, then that's too much." She wanted me to do a month-long taper to get off the clonazepam and lorazepam, by subsituting trazodone as I made the cuts for each of the four weeks. I tried that drug, and I was fainting every morning from it. I lasted six days, and I was begging her for help. Totally brutal! This was long before I found the Ashton Manual.

 

I was so glad to find that Manual! I know there are lots more ideas about how to taper these days, and I'm sure Ashton's method isn't the answer for all people, but I think there's much wisdom in it.

 

Think about it. Read some more. Reflect some more. Lorazepam can be pretty tough when it comes to blood levels of benzodiazepines. They can all cause dizziness, so you may have to deal with that for awhile, but hopefully, you can do a relatively comfortable taper and get yourself safely off the stuff.

 

As another wise BB said, "The only way out is through." You never know! It might not be too bad! Try to be positive and know that you're doing a good thing. You're aiming for better health, and benzos aren't part of that picture.

 

 

 

 

 

[[He...]]

❤️

[[La...]]

Healing seeker,

I had another thought on the diazepam thing. You may not need as much of it as the chart says. The maximum I took was 8 mg. Granted, I was taking much less medication than you are, but it had a different effect on me. 8 mg was enough for me. Everyone metabolizes meds differently, so it's hard to predict how a given person will do.

 

How often are you dosing right now with the lorazepam? Three times a day at 1 mg each time, like the chart shows, or all at once? If it's all at once, that could be a big issue. I do hope you're breaking the dose down into smaller doses. If you're not, please consider it. That might change everything and ease the way for you, even if you choose not to cross over to diazepam.

[[La...]]

I also wanted to share this "Side Effects" section from a study I shared in the News section. It explains the actions of each of the major benzos, including their potency, half-life and indications. You'll see that they can all cause a huge range of central nervous system side effects, including dizziness, vertigo and impaired motor coordination. Accumulation and drug interactions are also important issues to consider. As well, a person's age and general health factor into the equation.

 

Side Effects

 

Common side effects among all BZDs include drowsiness, lethargy, and fatigue. At higher dosages, impaired motor coordination, dizziness, vertigo, slurred speech, blurry vision, mood swings, and euphoria can occur, as well as hostile or erratic behavior in some instances. BZDs are eliminated slowly from the body, so repeated doses over a prolonged period can result in significant accumulation in fatty tissues. Thus, some symptoms of overmedication (impaired thinking, disorientation, confusion, slurred speech) can appear over time. Tolerance, dependence, and withdrawal are adverse effects associated with long-term use.2

 

Drug interaction is another issue with BZDs. They are metabolized in the liver via the cytochrome p450 system and subsequently glucuronidated and renally excreted. Drugs that either attenuate (oral contraceptive pills, antifungals, and some antibiotics) or potentiate (carbamazepine, phenytoin, rifampin, St. John's wort) cytochrome p450 enzymes will either increase or decrease the elimination half-life of BZDs, respectively.2

 

Severe adverse effects may occur when BZDs are administered with other drugs such as opioids. In combination with opioids, cardiovascular and hemodynamic perturbations become more significant. Respiratory depressant effects on spontaneous ventilation are enhanced dramatically when opioids are used in combination with BZDs, and these effects are dose dependent. Respiratory depressant effects are also exaggerated in patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3684331/

[[He...]]

Thank you for all your information... I dose 5 times a day. It has a short half life and I'm getting interdose withdrawals

[[La...]]

Thank you for all your information... I dose 5 times a day. It has a short half life and I'm getting interdose withdrawals

 

Okay, so even with five doses, you're still getting inter-dose withdrawals. Isn't that a good reason to go for a longer-acting one? Also, it's hard to decipher inter-dose withdrawals from tolerance withdrawal. I was taking .5 mg of clonazepam twice per day, and with its long half-life, I shouldn't have been having inter-dose withdrawals, but I was likely in tolerance. I felt terrible and kept having panic attacks. The dizziness started while I was still on it, and long before I started to taper. Had I known the connection, I would have started the taper waaaay earlier.

 

Has your doctor made any recommendations on this? You said something about him not liking diazepam, but did he explain why?

[[He...]]

Because I would have to be on so much Valium...I wouldn't function

I'm going to continue with the Ativan for now and resume cutting.....will evaluate as I go down

[[La...]]

Okay, I hope it goes well, Healing seeker! If you can do anything towards staying mobile, I'm sure that will help (e.g. exercises in sitting and lying, walking with a cane or walker in your home).

[[He...]]

Thank you.  You are awesome.  I will keep in touch no doubt

 

You are very kind

[[Li...]]

Hi

Does anything make your dizziness worse?

 

Does anything make your dizziness better?

 

Thanks

[[He...]]

Stress and exhaustion make my dizziness worse.

[[La...]]

I think stress and exhaustion make just about anything worse -- dizziness included. I find the dizziness itself exhausting, but on the dizzier days -- like today -- I find I need to be gentle with myself in terms of how I think about all of this. I need to be kinder and gentler to myself. For example, I find it very hard to go from sit to stand when I'm very dizzy. Instead of sitting there, scaring myself even more, I need to take some deep breaths, try to relax and visualize a smooth sit-to-stand motion where I'm not tensing my muscles too much. Too much muscle tension just creates more exhaustion. I try not to be too hard on myself, because on days where it's an 8 out of 10, I just need to get through it the best I can. It will likely be different tomorrow.

 

In my case, I haven't found anything at all that makes my dizziness better. It's got a life of its own. Yesterday was a 7 for me, and overnight, it turned into an 8. It's just like that. I've also had a couple of 6s recently, but again, I didn't do anything differently. The change happens during the night for me, and then I wake up either more dizzy or less dizzy.

 

I've been charting it for awhile (i.e. noting the daily dizziness level, and then tallying them up on my monthly anniversary date), but I can't draw any conclusions right now. On a positive note, I haven't had any 9s for awhile, so that's a good thing. 

 

I'd very much like to understand the mechanism behind these patterns, but I doubt I can right now. These things represent subtle changes in the brain. I hope someone is actually studying these sorts of things so that we could have some answers. But for now, there are still so many questions.

 

I do hope others chime in with their experiences.

 

[[La...]]

Thank you.  You are awesome.  I will keep in touch no doubt

 

You are very kind

 

You're welcome, Healing seeker. I know there are lots of supportive people around here, and lots of people going through similar struggles. I hope you'll reach out if you need a helping hand, e.g. in the Tapering section of BB and elsewhere. Also, I'm thinking of a particular Success Story where a woman was on benzos for 50 years and successfully withdrew. It's a great story! I think her name is SuzyJ or something like that. And, of course, there are many others. Please read those if you need some inspiration.

 

Take good care! 

[[Bu...]]

Liz2222:  Stress, low-blood sugar and pollen allergies make me more light-headed for sure.  Keeping my blood sugar up and treating allergies helps lessen my symptoms.

 

Had a really bad vertigo experience last week where I laid down on my bed and, the room was spinning very quickly around me.  I've had a very mild version of this for years when I laid down but, didn't think much about it.  This episode was really bad, so I went to a physical therapy office that specializes in treating BPPV disorders.  They put some goggles on me to watch what my eyes did when I laid down.  They said my eyes were bouncing up and down like basketballs!  It was BPPV -where crystals that help with balance were stuck in the wrong place in the vestibular system.  They treated it by putting me on a tilt table and flipped it backward and forward.  I was retested this week and my eyes barely bounced- just a few times.  They said that's all the treatment that was needed!  Amazing really that they can do this.  My dad was also treated for BPPV and is doing much better.  I guess I had BPPV before taking benzos but, wonder if the benzos and withdrawal made it worse, too.  I do have other light-headedness sxs as well that I believe are from withdrawal.

 

Just wanted to let folks know that BPPV can be successfully treated 

[[La...]]

I'm so glad all is well on that front, BurnedOut, and thank you for sharing that story with us. It's true that there are different kinds of dizziness, so it's good that you went to get it checked. I worry that people think everything is from withdrawal, and obviously, some things are not.

 

 

[[La...]]

If anyone needs to read an uplifting story of benzodiazepine withdrawal success, here's one:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=183648.0

[[Li...]]

I have been doing some research on dehydration and it seems that we generally do not drink enough water.

Anyone found any connection between not drinking enough water, as opposed to other types of drinks, and feeling dizzier?