The Dizziness Group: For those who are floating, boating, falling or flying

[Guest [...]]

My layperson's take on the situation regarding being in a moving vehicle if you're a dizzy dame or dude is this: For those who are NOT dizzy, moving vehicles can cause dizziness because the vision, vestibular system and proprioception are not giving the brain the same messages at the same time. But if a person is already dizzy, then the motion of the vehicle feels more "normal" and, in a way, it corrects the mismatched messages that one is experiencing when not in a moving vehicle. It's just a temporary correction, of course, but it can afford a person a little window of comfort.

 

I hope I've got that right. Anyone else?

 

My take on Fabio is this: He's an obnoxious egotist, and he needs a haircut. If he's dizzy from taking a benzo or something, then of course, he's welcome to join us here. If he can offer any support, help or information, then yes, we'd love to have him aboard our floaty boat. However, if he just wants to show off his yellow electric thingo and foist unhealthy foods on us, then I'm not so sure. He wasn't even there to catch me when I fainted awhile ago. 

 

Bye Fabio.

 

 

 

  :laugh:

 

He does seem to think he is quite a ladies man doesn't he!

 

 

Thanks for explaining the driving while dizzy Lapis.If it makes us less dizzy,I think I might drive all day every day!I love driving anyway.Got that in the gene pool from my truck driving dad.Just hate busy freeways,yuck!

[[La...]]

Well, my dear 2200, if you ever drive to Canada, please drop in to say hello! I think we're on opposite sides of the continent, but hey, if you're into driving, you'll make it here eventually!

 

[[Yo...]]

My layperson's take on the situation regarding being in a moving vehicle if you're a dizzy dame or dude is this: For those who are NOT dizzy, moving vehicles can cause dizziness because the vision, vestibular system and proprioception are not giving the brain the same messages at the same time. But if a person is already dizzy, then the motion of the vehicle feels more "normal" and, in a way, it corrects the mismatched messages that one is experiencing when not in a moving vehicle. It's just a temporary correction, of course, but it can afford a person a little window of comfort.

 

 

Where did you read that driving can cause dizziness? I've never heard that complaint from anyone.

 

What's dizzying is trying to get to your destination on any given day in Montreal, cuz of the endless construction and road closures/detours. That'll make your head spin! 

 

 

And eating toast with your face on it doesn't make you an obnoxious egotist...

 

Or does it. 🤔

 

 

As for my proposed train ride, it's not the "cancelling effect" I'm worried about...it's being exposed to passive motion for 5 hours and disembarking with standing dizziness. 

[Guest [...]]

Well, my dear 2200, if you ever drive to Canada, please drop in to say hello! I think we're on opposite sides of the continent, but hey, if you're into driving, you'll make it here eventually!

 

 

 

Lapis,I am actually pretty close to Canada.I live in Washinton state.So I am just a hop,skip and a jump from you!(A little frog humor )

 

 

 

Shook,I don't think a train ride would make or break the dizziness factor.Just my gut feeling.I would think if anything it would be distracting and soothing.I don't think it would make walking afterwards any worse.You could steady yourself with the seats and hand rails on the way off.

 

You could live dangerously and just hop on and go!If it turns out bad you will always have a good story to tell us.

[[La...]]

Hey Shook,

When travelling by car, some people get "motion sickness". That's what I'm referring to. It happens because the vision, vestibular system and proprioception aren't giving the cerebellum the same messages. It's quite common. Some people take Gravol before going on road trips for that reason. Gravol is a vestibular suppressant and can quell the nausea that accompanies motion sickness.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_sickness

 

I have no idea how a train ride might affect you, so I wouldn't even want to take a stab at that.

 

As for Fabio, he comes across as egotistical in his very uncool commercial, and it's amazing that his head fits through the door. Ick.

[[La...]]

Well, my dear 2200, if you ever drive to Canada, please drop in to say hello! I think we're on opposite sides of the continent, but hey, if you're into driving, you'll make it here eventually!

 

 

 

Lapis,I am actually pretty close to Canada.I live in Washinton state.So I am just a hop,skip and a jump from you!(A little frog humor )

 

 

 

Shook,I don't think a train ride would make or break the dizziness factor.Just my gut feeling.I would think if anything it would be distracting and soothing.I don't think it would make walking afterwards any worse.You could steady yourself with the seats and hand rails on the way off.

 

You could live dangerously and just hop on and go!If it turns out bad you will always have a good story to tell us.

 

2200,

Washington State is waaaay over in the west of the U.S., and Ontario is waaaaay over in the east of Canada. Well, actually, Canada extends much further east than Ontario, but it's still a fair drive from where you are to where I am. However, if you like driving, then you'll love the trip! No need for Gravol for you!

[[Ki...]]

Hi Lapis ,2200 and all

Hi buddies

How are u all.  Logged in after a long  time. Cant read a lot so dont log in.

How are u all. I am quite dizzy tdy. Still a very slow recovery but some days I am a bit better. 

Miss u all. Sending hugs and healing my friends. 

 

 

[Guest [...]]

Hi Lapis ,2200 and all

Hi buddies

How are u all.  Logged in after a long  time. Cant read a lot so dont log in.

How are u all. I am quite dizzy tdy. Still a very slow recovery but some days I am a bit better. 

Miss u all. Sending hugs and healing my friends.

 

 

Hi Kirk!So good to hear from you!Sorry you are having a rough day with the dizziness.It can be such a challenge every day.Have you found anything to help ease your symptoms any?Can you get out and about yet?

 

Thanks for dropping in to say hi,and please try and come back more often to say hi!Always someone here to yack with you!Take care Kirk!

[[La...]]

Hello from me too, Kirkhero!

Nice to see you, and thanks for dropping in. Please take good care and fill us in on how you've been doing over the last little while. Any changes?

 

[Guest [...]]

Well, my dear 2200, if you ever drive to Canada, please drop in to say hello! I think we're on opposite sides of the continent, but hey, if you're into driving, you'll make it here eventually!

 

 

 

Lapis,I am actually pretty close to Canada.I live in Washinton state.So I am just a hop,skip and a jump from you!(A little frog humor )

 

 

 

Shook,I don't think a train ride would make or break the dizziness factor.Just my gut feeling.I would think if anything it would be distracting and soothing.I don't think it would make walking afterwards any worse.You could steady yourself with the seats and hand rails on the way off.

 

You could live dangerously and just hop on and go!If it turns out bad you will always have a good story to tell us.

 

2200,

Washington State is waaaay over in the west of the U.S., and Ontario is waaaaay over in the east of Canada. Well, actually, Canada extends much further east than Ontario, but it's still a fair drive from where you are to where I am. However, if you like driving, then you'll love the trip! No need for Gravol for you!

 

 

Well Lapis,I guess I won't be driving up there after all!Much too far.I have been to Banff Canada when I was a kid,so that must be much closer to Washington than Ontario.

[[La...]]

Yes, 2200, Banff is in Alberta, which is one of the prairie provinces of Canada. Of course, the Rocky Mountains are there, and it's just above Montana and Idaho. However, you said you like driving, and you don't get any ill effects from it, so you can just keep driving east......

 

Shook, here's a little present for you and all the other Fabio Fans around here:

 

http://www.gq.com/story/the-real-life-diet-of-fabio 

 

Turns out he eats pretty healthy food -- healthier than the guck he promotes. Still, I'm not a fan.

[[Yo...]]

Fabio sounds pretty down-to-earth! And such wisdom...

 

“Life can be as complicated as you want, if you complicate it.

But if you keep your life simple, you get the best results.”

 

I can apply this to my taper. Don't overthink it, and don't look for probs when there are none.

 

I wish I had laser-printed Fabio toast to speak to me every morning...

 

 

I thought about motion sickness after posting the question... Then thought, "meh".

 

Funny thing about car sickness for me is I'd sometimes get it as a passenger in the backseat. No problem driving or being in the front passenger seat. I have some idea why, but am too lazy to articulate it... 

 

2200,

 

I thought you were in Texas. Or you're from Texas?

 

If you're gonna drive to Ontari-ari-ooo, you may as well drive another 7 hours to Montreal and let me treat you and hubby to our famous smoked meat sandwiches and bagels. Or our contribution to international cuisine and the culinary arts, the disgusting "poutine"... I couldn't believe it when I saw poutine on the menu at a fast food chain in Japan!! They had standard poutine, but also had it with mayo and fish eggs! Yum!

 

And thanks, I'll hold onto the handrail when getting off the train. I just hope I get my "land legs" back... Must think like Fabio! Don't overthink! You'll be fine!

 

But the fact that Lapis won't venture a guess has me worried. lol

 

 

HELLO KIRK! 

[[La...]]

Hey Shook,

I just don't want to speculate on something like that! I think you'll be fine, but I ain't got no crystal ball. Wish I did! I'd give out predictions to everyone, starting with me!

 

I did note that the Fabio article featured some of his redeeming qualities, including somewhat better food choices than I'd previously expected. The KISS rule is always good -- whether it's from Fabio or someone else -- i.e. Keep It Simple, Stupid!

 

[[Yo...]]

Hey Shook,

I just don't want to speculate on something like that! I think you'll be fine, but I ain't got no crystal ball. Wish I did! I'd give out predictions to everyone, starting with me!

 

I did note that the Fabio article featured some of his redeeming qualities, including somewhat better food choices than I'd previously expected. The KISS rule is always good -- whether it's from Fabio or someone else -- i.e. Keep It Simple, Stupid!

 

 

It's "stupid" ppl who don't worry and complicate life. It's "smart" ppl who over-analyze and dig their own graves. And it's "smart" ppl with OCD/GAD/DVD who catastrophize and lie down in them. 

 

I'd love to be an airhead sleepwalking through life. 

 

Save me Fabio!

 

(Shook faints and falls on a piece of laser-printed toast)

[[La...]]

Hi Shook,

If we've learned anything about Fabio, it's that he's not going to catch anyone when they fall. However, your good buddies around here will DEFINITELY do so!

 

Here's the thing on the "smart over-analyzers": We need 'em. They're everywhere. And they help make things happen. Too bad they're the ones who often get slapped with labels -- and then given pills that make them dizzy.

 

(Please don't faint, Shook! Especially not on the toast. It's not nice to waste food like that.)

 

[[Yo...]]

Are we expecting too much from Fabio? Alas, he's not Superman. Just a beautiful man with a giant yellow toaster...

 

So you'll catch me then? 

 

Yesterday the boatiness was an obnoxious 9/10. I was bouncing off my bed and being tossed about. Not the first time, so not jumping to any conclusions about the micro reduction I've made so far. It just sucks.

 

And yes, we need over-thinkers. Shine on you crazy diamonds!

[[La...]]

We'll all catch you, Shook! We'll form one of those human nets....ya know, like when someone is going to jump from a burning building or something? That'll be us. 

 

Or, if you prefer, we'll put a nice, soft mattress on top of Fabio's electric yellow toaster thingo, and you can just fall onto that.

[[La...]]

Here's an excerpt from the full study of an article called "Pharmacology of Balance and Dizziness". I can share the link to the abstract here, but I only have the full study as an Adobe file. All of the benzodiazepines listed are used for short-term treatment of dizziness, but they can all cause dizziness, according to this article. Yup, we know. We're living examples.

 

Again, it makes me question why it was so hard to get a diagnosis for my dizziness while I was still taking clonazepam. It's in all the textbooks. Benzodiazepines are vestibular suppressants, and they're not meant for long-term use.

 

Note the reference to one of the liver enzymes in the section about clonazepam (CYP3A4). Apparently, "interactions are numerous".

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23648607 

 

3. Benzodiazepines

Benzodiazepines are central suppressants of the

vestibular system (Blair & Gavin, 1979; Padoan, Korttila,

Magnusson, Pyykko, & Schalen, 1990). They are

very effective in management of vertigo when used in

small doses. Furthermore, they are useful in motion

sickness prevention (McClure, Lycett, & Baskerville,

1982). Unfortunately, these medications have serious

adverse effects including habituation, sedation, memory

impairment, and increased fall risk and consequent

traumatic injury. Caution is advised when prescribed for

use in debilitated patients, the elderly, and those already

at risk for falls. Benzodiazepines are usually given to

patients with contraindications to taking anticholinergics,

such as prostatism and glaucoma. The following

medications have similar mechanisms of action and

similar adverse effect profiles.

 

1. Diazepam: ("Diazepam: Drug information,”

2012)

Diazepam may be used in the treatment of acute spontaneous

vertigo (Cesarini, 2004; Alpini, Monti, Raponi,

&Ent Department, 2004). Low doses (2 mg twice daily)

are the recommended dose (Hain & Uddin, 2003). In

patients with renal impairment, no dose adjustments are

recommended; however if treatment is to be given for

prolonged periods, it is recommended that the dose be

decreased. In patients with hepatic impairment, since

the half-life is significantly prolonged, the maintenance

dose should be decreased by 50%. Significant adverse

reactions include the following: hypotension, ataxia,

weakness, vertigo, blurred vision, and diplopia.

 

2. Lorazepam: ("Lorazepam: Drug information,”

2012)

Lorazepam is a particularly useful medication for the

treatment of vertigo due to its efficacy and straightforward

pharmacokinetics. For an acute vertigo attack,

lorazepam can be taken sublingually (1 mg) (Halmagyi,

1992). For transient attacks of vertigo, it typically

can be stopped after a few days. The most serious

adverse effect is habituation, which can be minimized

by using a maximum dose of 0.5 mg twice daily (Funderburk

et al., 1988). Reported adverse effects in 1%

to 10% of patients relating to balance are the following

: hypotension, ataxia, dizziness, weakness, and

visual disturbances. Severe reactions in less than 1% or

unknown frequency of patients include vertigo.

 

3. Clonazepam: ("Clonazepam: Drug

information,” 2012)

Clonazepam may be used for the treatment of vertigo,

usually in a dose of 0.5 mg twice daily. There is

little information about its potential for habituation and

efficacy, but appears to be as effective as lorazepam

for vestibular suppression (Halmagyi, 1992). Significant

adverse reactions include the following: ataxia,

dizziness, hypotonia, vertigo, abnormal coordination,

muscle weakness, blurred vision, abnormal eye movements,

diplopia, nystagmus, and hemiparesis. Specific

percentages for ataxia are 30% in patients with seizure

disorder and 5% in those with panic disorder. Clonazepam

is a major substrate of CYP3A4, so interactions

are numerous and may increase adverse effects.

 

4. Alprazolam should be avoided due to potential

of withdrawal syndrome due to its long-acting

effects (Hain & Uddin, 2003)

 

[[an...]]

I found this the other day because i have SEVERE vision issues and was looking into this therapy. Maybe our dizziness is our eyes and brains, not our ears!

 

Vision is Pervasive Throughout the Brain

 

65% of the sensory information to the brain is visual and there are more areas of the brain dedicated to vision than all the other sense modalities combined.

 

There are at least 11 pathways from retina to brain which have been identified. All the visual pathways are parallel pathways – they both send and receive information. There are also effective feedback loops at all levels of the pathways.

 

The eyes don’t tell us what to see, the brain tells our eyes what to look for. – MacDonald

Visual processes are very involved and entwined with so many different other processes (auditory, vestibular, proprioceptive). There are more than 35 different areas in the brain identified as primarily involved with the processing of visual information and at least 305 intra-cortical pathways linking those 35 areas. Every lobe of the cerebral cortex is involved in visual information processing, and structures like the brain stem, pons, medulla, cerebellum, pineal gland are heavily involved in things like motor coordination and integration with the other senses.

 

The visual system is involved with processes such as balance, planning and executing motor movements, eye movement control, comprehending complex actions and ideas, sustaining attention, object identification, object localization and understanding the relationship between objects, filtering out irrelevant stimuli and memory.

 

Any disturbances to any of the 35 brain areas primarily or totally involved with the processing of visual information and any of the more than 350 intra-neural connections BETWEEN the 35 brain areas can cause symptoms and have an effect on visual comfort and visual information processing.

 

Anywhere you poke in the brain, you touch an area involved with vision. – Sanet

 

 

more here: http://www.visionlearningcenter.com/acquired-brain-injury/

[[La...]]

ang1111, thanks for the info. Just to clarify, our balance has to do with multiple sensory messages -- vision, vestibular and proprioceptive. They all need to be giving the same messages to the cerebellum at the same time about where we are in space. If they don't, we can feel dizzy. So yes, if you have vision issues, your balance may be affected. Same thing if you have proprioceptive issues or vestibular issues. It's a three-part thing.

 

Have you had your vision checked by an optometrist or opthalmologist? Everything okay?

[[an...]]

Yes I've been checked. He said it's my brain not my eyes. I had all the tilt tests too. Things still warp and push and pull away from me, floaty, all that stuff. I just think my issues might be more vision/brain than ear/brain. I have a TON of visual symptoms like tracers, afterimages, snow, and more. Not fun.

[[La...]]

No, it doesn't sound fun at all, ang! I had some weird visual things going on at the beginning too, but they've gone now. I remember being awed by the intensity of the colours of things and finding everything looked a bit surreal. Things were a bit dream-like for awhile. Anyway, it's all on the list of possible withdrawal symptoms.

 

I really hope it passes quickly for you!

[[Si...]]

Hey lapis2 and thanks for the useful info you have put.

I also have balance problem...i just used 14 days of .5 mg klonopin and stopped suddenly. And now after four months i am struggling with being unbalance...

It is very scary and hard for me...i can play futball...i can run...but when i am standing on my foot, it is getting hard for me to stand...

Is it going to be end one day? I cant take this anymore.

[[La...]]

Hi Silent singer,

I know it seems unfair that you should be feeling this way after having taken such a short course of benzodiazepines, but this medication seems to affect us all differently. Can I ask if you're taking any other medications, or drinking alcohol, or taking herbal medicines, or anything else like that? There are many things that can affect balance, so it's worth looking at all of the possibilities. Were you dizzy while on the medication, or immediately afterward? Have you seen your doctor about your symptoms in order to rule out other possible causes?

 

Sorry for all of the questions, but those are a few things that come to mind. If your dizziness is, indeed, caused by the benzo, then the fact that you only took it for such a short time puts you in a pretty good place, I think. Some of us took it for years and years, but two weeks is a very short time. For all of us, though, the expectation is that it will go away. None of us knows when, but that IS the expected outcome.

 

I think it's great that you're able to keep exercising, and truthfully, that's probably the best thing you can do. It's good for the brain and the body. If I were you, I'd keep trying to stand on one leg and do whatever other exercises I could -- as long as it's safe, of course.

 

Take care! 

[[Yo...]]

Sounds like you experienced derealization in the beginning, Lapis. I did from an AD, and it was like being unplugged from The Matrix, as I like to describe it.

 

Been having visual disturbances. Seeing pinpricks of colored light in dark environments, and subtle visual snow in light...as well as the sudden onset of floaters. Annoyances that add up. Seeing communists in my soup and Fabio in my toast too.