The Dizziness Group: For those who are floating, boating, falling or flying

[[Yo...]]

It's crazy, eh? I remember my first attack. I was 24, and it just struck out of the clear blue. I felt like the lights were going out and like I was fading/dying... Had the flight reaction and ran out of the house, in my underwear, in winter. 

 

The first one's the worse cuz you don't know what it is and u think you're dying...

[[La...]]

Yeah, I'm tired of hearing from well-meaning ppl that this is "benign" and not life-threatening. No, it has "only" taken my peace away, dipshit. lol

 

That's "Grumpy", one of the Care Bears. I guess you never watched the cartoon, or heard the Care Bear Countdown theme song. 

 

It relates to the countdown I've begun in my sig. Soon I'll be blaming everything on w/d, including worsening hemorrhoids.

 

I do wish that the studies connecting falls and fractures with benzodiazepines would make the point that dizziness, muscle weakness, confusion, coordination issues and/or slow reaction time likely precede that fall. In that way, the studies would capture how many people-- especially seniors -- have serious side effects from taking these meds. Many studies lack that focus. Falls can be extremely dangerous if there's a head injury or hip fracture, and both can have serious consequences, including death. So, while being dizzy might be considered "benign", in that it's not killing you, it may, indeed, have deadly consequences.

 

Ah well. The devil is in the details.

 

Anyway, nice bears, Shook. Very cute. I wasn't a Carebear kid, so it's a bit lost on me. However, I can sit back and enjoy your changing picture. Maybe we can start to place bets on what might come next! We can gamble and get rich!

 

Er....maybe not.

 

Please don't get hemorrhoids, Shook. They're not fun. You'd be a very unhappy little bear cub with a poorly posterior. Praise the posteriors and keep them positive! 

[[so...]]

Shook,

 

My son-in-law is a doctor and I asked him why my neighbor suddenly had a panic attack at 40 out of the blue.  He wasn't on any meds--YET.  Those came AFTER the panic attack.  My SIL said hormones go wacky for no reason sometimes and they cause symptoms like panic attacks.  Do you think that's a plausible explanation for what happened to you at 24?

 

My neighbor was then put on Paxil and what my SIL said was that the wacky hormone thing would have rebalanced itself, but that the Paxil kept the hormones out of balance and heightened the symptoms.  He also said, once the meds are stopped, eventually the body finds its way back to homeostasis.  He has never doubted my eventual recovery.

 

Love to you and everyone on this thread.  We are gonna be fine.

 

Sofa

[[La...]]

Hi Sofa,

Please thank your SIL for me, because I appreciate seeing those positive words, ie. "eventually the body finds its way back to homeostasis". Nice! More please, Dr. SIL! 

 

I think there was a thread somewhere on BB where people actually posted POSITIVE experiences with medical professionals. It was nice to see. 

[[La...]]

Sofa,

I just thought of one other novel to add to your list: "Room" by Emma Donoghue (pronounced don-o-who), a Canadian writer. The book was made into a film, and I believe the lead actress, Brie Larson, won the Oscar for that role. I'd like to see it.

[[so...]]

Thanks Lapis.  I joined goodreads.com today and downloaded the app.  I bought all the books you and Shook recommended and now I will add your latest one.  I'm so excited!  I love to read.  I haven't been able to find too many that really grabbed me, so now I'm looking forward to "losing myself" in these books, rather than always finding myself in this withdrawal mess.  Or maybe IT always finds me.  I'll wear camouflage and hide in the bushes while reading.  Now there's an interesting sight.

 

Sofa

 

 

[[La...]]

Great stuff, Sofa! Enjoy! I've been using my local library a lot in the past year or so, and I really like it. I've always got a "Want To Read" list going, based on things I hear about or read about on Goodreads.com. Then I just order from the library and wait until it's available. That Trevor Noah book was really in demand after he did an amazing interview on CBC Radio. I think I waited four months for that one, but it was worth it.

 

Anyway, I hope the benzo beast will leave you alone to read in peace. I find that reading gives me a break and takes me away from wherever I am at present. My last JoJo Moyes book ("The Girl You Left Behind") took me to WWI France and modern-day London. It's also reassuring to know that my brain isn't broken. 

 

 

 

 

[[so...]]

Another quip from my SIL...

 

He talked to me about how long nerves take to heal versus regular wounds.  He damaged a nerve in his neck when he was 17.  He had loads of pain and zaps that ran up his spine until he was 23.  I looked at him in horror and he said, "That's not what happened to you.  I injured my vertebrae and the nerves that were attached to tendons and muscles.  Your nerves are not damaged.  Your gaba receptors are downregulated and your nerves are in hyper-drive without the gaba to calm them down.  That is very different than an injury.  I didn't have all the weird physical and mental symptoms you've had.  I knew what I had done and, yep, it felt just like it was supposed to.  Your issues are too much cortisol, which creates too much adrenaline, which causes chaos temporarily in your mind and all over your body, which are totally unrelated to a definite injury.  Your fight/flight is in overdrive and the fear is intense.  You're not injured.  You are imbalanced and the body is naturally designed to ALWAYS seek homeostasis, no matter what.  Healing like this feels shitty.  But think of it this way.  Your body is in as much overdrive trying to fix this as your nerves are in hyperdrive making you feel like shit.  It's like the battle of the Titans going on in there and your body is gonna win."

 

I hold on to my SIL's words all the time.  He is so matter-of-fact about complete healing that it's hard to ignore.

 

Sofa

[[Yo...]]

Shook,

 

My son-in-law is a doctor and I asked him why my neighbor suddenly had a panic attack at 40 out of the blue.  He wasn't on any meds--YET.  Those came AFTER the panic attack.  My SIL said hormones go wacky for no reason sometimes and they cause symptoms like panic attacks.  Do not you think that's a plausible explanation for what happened to you at 24?

 

My neighbor was then put on Paxil and what my SIL said was that the wacky hormone thing would have rebalanced itself, but that the Paxil kept the hormones out of balance and heightened the symptoms.  He also said, once the meds are stopped, eventually the body finds its way back to homeostasis.  He has never doubted my eventual recovery.

 

Love to you and everyone on this thread.  We are gonna be fine.

 

Sofa

 

I don't know why my hormones would've been in a tizzy at 24, but suppose anything's possible. It was an isolated episode.

 

A second attack happened in 2013, but the cause was clear. My idiot doctor started me on a maintenance dose of an AD that contained a stimulant. The panic attack was just the start of a nightmarish reaction. Curse all psych meds, and idiot doctors. No, I'm not a Scientologist. lol

 

Your SIL sounds like a good guy to have in your corner. Free medical advice! If his hobby was car repair he'd be perfect! lol

 

Thanks for the love. Back at ya. 

 

 

 

Lapis, I'm shocked that studies linking benzos and falls wouldn't detail the sxs that may cause them. Then again, many studies are flawed, sloppy, or otherwise lacking.

 

Since you weren't a Care Bears kid, here's the intro:

 

 

 

And this thread could turn into a Book of the Month club... Didn't Trevor Noah replace John Stewart on The Daily Show? He's ok as a host but I miss Stewart's acerbic wit and haggard look. lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[so...]]

Shook,

 

As a matter of fact his hobby IS car repair and rebuilding.  I guess it doesn't matter if it's a car or a body to him.

 

Sofa

[[La...]]

Sofa,

Can I rent your SIL for a few days? I've got a few things that need fixin' -- a body, a car, etc.

 

It's good to hear what he has to say about all of this, and yes, definitely a good guy to have in your corner. That reassurance is priceless.

 

Shook, I'm with you regarding psych meds. Damn scary things!

[Guest [...]]

Sofa,Such good info from your SIL,thankyou for telling us!

[[La...]]

Hey Shook,

I missed part of your post, so I'll respond now. Yes, some of the benzo-related fall studies seem not to mention dizziness. The last one I posted, i.e. the Taiwanese one, mentioned dizziness in the intro, but that was it. It really focused on half-life of the benzo, as well as Z-drug and polypharmacy effects. According to the study, both long and short half-life benzos caused falls in seniors, as did the Z-drugs, and of course, polypharmacy with two or more of any of those meds. Dizziness as the preceding factor before those falls wasn't the focus of the study. But people don't just fall down for no reason -- well, not usually. Something happens to cause the fall.

 

I have a whole study on medications that cause dizziness, though. It's a common side effect of medications. It's called "Vertigo/dizziness as a Drugs’ adverse reaction". Here are some key quotes:

 

Results:

 

Our results show that, among the side-effects of different classes of drugs such as anti-convulsants, anti-hypertensives, antibiotics, anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, and anti-inflammatory, also vertigo or dizziness are included.

 

Conclusions:

 

Spontaneous reports of vertigo or dizziness, as side-effect of certain drugs, received at our Pharmacovigilance Center, represented the 5% of all reports in 2012. Considering the high incidence of such an ADR for several drugs’ classes, it can be speculated that under-reporting also affect vertigo and dizziness. Despite the fact that these ADRs might not represent a direct threaten for life, indirectly they can cause secondary damage to patients such as falls, fractures etc. Balance should be accurately monitored during drug use and particularly in fragile patients.

 

There's also this quote from the "Discussion" section:

 

The list of drugs that may cause vertigo or dizziness is impressive. It includes anti-convulsants, anesthetics, anti-depressants, analgesics, anti-diabetics, contraceptives, anti-inflammatory drugs, cardiovascular drugs, sedatives, tranquillizers, cytotoxic agents, and anti-hypertensive agents.[29,30]

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3853661/ 

 

As for the Care Bear intro, it's a bit, well, um....sappy, but hey, if it makes you happy, then that's all that matters. I grew up with sappier stuff (which I won't get into here).

 

And yes, Trevor Noah is the new host of The Daily Show. I didn't watch it, but I've certainly seen Jon Stewart. So smart! Really like what I've seen of him. I only learned who Trevor Noah was when he was interviewed on CBC Radio, and he so impressed me with his intelligence, humour and stories of growing up in apartheid South Africa that I had to get the book. Excellent!

 

[[La...]]

And look what I just came across! Here's an article from Scientific American called "Dizziness Can Be a Fatal Side Effect of Many Medications; Lightheadedness and disorientation are among the most common side effects of prescription drugs".

 

A few quotes:

 

Dizziness—a deficit in spatial perception that leaves people feeling lightheaded, unbalanced or disoriented—is one of the most common side effects of prescription drugs. Some of the most popular medications, including those that control high blood pressure or alter the neurochemistry of the brain, can intensify or cause dizziness in up to 30 percent of patients who take them, experts estimate.

 

------

 

Still, many people remain uninformed of the dangers of dizziness or unaware that one or more of their prescription drugs may leave them off-balance. Experts estimate that dizziness affects up to 30 percent of the general population, most frequently caused by disorders of the inner ear or vestibular system but also caused by conditions or medications that af-fect our vision, brain function or nervous system.

 

------

 

Try an antidizziness drug. If all else fails, your doctor may prescribe medication such as an antiemetic that suppresses mixed signals from the inner ear and reduces motion sickness. Yet many drugs used to combat dizziness come with problems of their own, such as unpleasant side effects. Ironically, some of them can even increase dizziness.

 

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/dizziness-can-be-a-fatal-side-effect-of-many-medications/

[[La...]]

And this one is from Consumer Reports. It's called "Drugs that can make you dizzy":

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2015/05/drugs-that-can-make-you-dizzy/index.htm 

 

One more from Scientific American: "What Causes Dizziness?"

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-causes-dizziness/ 

 

[[Yo...]]

 

Drugs causing your vertigo? No problem, here's another drug. What? This new drug's causing gastric problems? Here, take this...

 

It's a kind of institutionalized madness.

 

And I love these studies that are quietly published in medical journals and get scant attention. They come out every few years to point out the failings of the system, e.g., "many people remain uninformed of the dangers", but to little or no avail. They should be required reading for anyone with a script pad.

 

I wasn't a fan of the Care Bears even as a kid, but it played between the good cartoons in the weekday morning lineup before school. I just tried to find a positive and cuddly way to characterize my taper. I could've gone the dark humor route, which I tend to favor, and called it "The Green Mile". But I don't want anyone seeing that and getting discouraged. 

 

Is this intro familiar, or is it reaching back too far...

 

 

 

 

 

[[Yo...]]

Just watched that Howdy Doody vid. The kids look thrilled to be there and singing. And that clown is going to be in my dreams tonight... lol

 

 

Here's one from abcd's time. She loved it.

 

[[La...]]

Okay, so Howdy Doody is way before my time, although for some reason, I know that song. Must be my mom's fault or something. And I've never heard of the other one! What about Bugs Bunny and his pals Elmer Fudd, Tweetie and Sylvester, etc.? The absolute best! I learned a lot of classical music as well, because the soundtracks featured orchestral works. 

[Guest [Le...]]

Okay, so Howdy Doody is way before my time, although for some reason, I know that song. Must be my mom's fault or something. And I've never heard of the other one! What about Bugs Bunny and his pals Elmer Fudd, Tweetie and Sylvester, etc.? The absolute best! I learned a lot of classical music as well, because the soundtracks featured orchestral works. 

 

Thanks for the great memory trigger, Lapis!

 

Bugs Bunny's 1001 Rabbit Tales was a great movie. If you haven't seen it, it's a wonderful collection of Bugs's adventures with his friends (and frenemies).

 

[[Yo...]]

Never cheered for Bugs Bunny. He was obnoxious, especially in the early cartoons! I always wanted the "bad guys" to get their day... Elmer should've been allowed to have rabbit stew just once.

 

And while I'm at it, poor Tom, much abused by the sadistic Jerry, should've been given the chance to put him on a spit and cook him to perfection. 

 

 

 

...just found and read a piece of fan fiction about Tom exacting terrible revenge on Jerry. OMG. 

[[La...]]

Meanie!

[[La...]]

Okay, so Howdy Doody is way before my time, although for some reason, I know that song. Must be my mom's fault or something. And I've never heard of the other one! What about Bugs Bunny and his pals Elmer Fudd, Tweetie and Sylvester, etc.? The absolute best! I learned a lot of classical music as well, because the soundtracks featured orchestral works. 

 

Thanks for the great memory trigger, Lapis!

 

Bugs Bunny's 1001 Rabbit Tales was a great movie. If you haven't seen it, it's a wonderful collection of Bugs's adventures with his friends (and frenemies).

 

Thanks for the idea, LeslieAsh! I may need to get a Bugs Bunny fix. Contrary to Shook's ideas, I think good ol' Bugs was a great guy. Just look at his initials! He should be our mascot! 

[[Yo...]]

 

[[so...]]

Lapis,

 

The Trevor Noah book is awesome!  I can't put it down!

 

Sofa

[[La...]]

Lapis,

 

The Trevor Noah book is awesome!  I can't put it down!

 

Sofa

 

See? I told you! Enjoy! Such a good read.