is there a DR in the house...

[Guest [su...]]

sussie, you know i still have the benzo-brain after this bloody detox ,

which means as soon as i hear the word Doctor i think of those with their

prescription pad and get angry. not so funny really i know.

 

but of course Spartacus is a prime Doctor, thats different , she is a victim herself.

i got really upset thinking to be disrespectful towards her.

love you Spartacus .

i know what you mean morreweg,i feel the same way. and it's not fair to single out dr's as such. but like you said our benzo brains are aimed in that direction right now.. spartacus sounds like a very caring ,concerned and intelligent person. 

[[Ch...]]

That's the whole point Sussie, many doctors ARE caring, concerned and intelligent people.

 

I live in a very rural area and the doctors at our medical clinic all pay out of their own pocket so that every member of the community may enjoy free swim time at the Aquatic Centre.

 

The computer I enjoy so much was given to me by my dermatologist because he likes me and thought I would enjoy feeling more connected.

 

These are just a couple of examples of the kindness I've experienced from the medical community. Of course I have my fair share of horror stories too, make no mistake!

 

Chinook

[Guest [su...]]

that is very nice of your derm. to do  i well know how dr's differ. at my medical clinic the first dr i had i dropped because he was not a nice person. medically and personally speaking. so i got another one in the same clinic and love him..

[[gu...]]

Spartacus, you've made some excellent points. I tend to think the pharmaceutical industry as a whole and the medical community at large see the "side effects" issue as an opportunity for more diagnosis and therefore more drug treatment, which is what the health care industry is being reduced to, short, medium and preferably long term drug treatment.

 

On the other hand we are a very sick society in every sense of the word and the medical professionals are a product of it as well. Just like the government. I would love to, but I can't be very optimistic about the future.

[[sp...]]

Hello guitarman,

 

And thank you for your post.

 

The pharmaceutical industry is what it is...ultimately, whether dressed up in world-saving altruism or not, their only aim in life is to sell drugs and make a profit.

 

The failure of governments and my profession to be capable of the wit or cynicism necessary to recognise this, leaves the world with no readily available executive saviours.

 

And, as we have all found, individuals struggle to achieve credibility, doctors or not

 

Take care, spartacus x

[[ig...]]

Hi Spartacus,

I'm not quite sure what you're saying about ME (CFS)....are you saying those of us with it want to be sick?

I understand it's a bucket diagnosis, but the fevers, chills, night sweats, extreme fatigue, cognitive

problems, aches and pains are some of the symptoms, and I'm not faking it nor do I want to be sick.

 

Doctors prescribed an SSRI plus klonopin to try and "fix" it. Those drugs, ironically, aren't good

for the HPA axis, and neither is CFS/ME.

 

Please clarify what you were saying about this.

 

Iggy

[[sp...]]

Dear Iggy,

 

I'm so sorry I've not made myself clear. I wouldn't want to give you a moments more distress than you are suffering already...I do need to explain better

 

"ME" was not new when the label appeared. Post viral syndromes had always been with us, were almost par for the course for some viruses, notably influenza.

 

What was also notable about such syndromes was that given support, rest, good food and gentle exercise...given time and masterly inactivity...they got better, usually within weeks or months, not years.

 

Then, something happened. The numbers suffering the symptoms you describe so well increased exponentially, they became sicker and they stayed sick. "ME" was born in an attempt to characterise the main symptom groups of these people...the muscle pain, weakness and spasm and the central hypersensitivity. These distressed patients popped up all around..."ME TOO" was born.

 

The other thing that happened around this time was the profligate prescription of the new minor tranquilisers and antidepressants, they were thrown at any and every hard case where the profession judged, mostly wrongly, that a psychological element was present in causation. My thesis would be that these happenings, as in your own case, are not entirely unconnected.

 

Together they have created an ongoing Public Health catastrophe and made mince of much of Medicine. While psychotropics aren't the only way to damage your HPA axis, they certainly guarantee that if something else has, they will make it worse, and, when unrecognised tolerance, paradoxical reactions or haphazard withdrawal supervene, will so cloud your original condition that it will become impossible to say whether you still have it.

 

They also guarantee that many others will apparently join you in your misery. Running into unacknowledged problems with benzos prescribed for multiple other indications, they cascade effortfully into "CFS", or a very good imitation thereof.

 

Others in withdrawal will cascade into other "bucket" diagnoses, IBS, GAD, OCD, POTS, IC, PPS, CRPS, ADHD or, perhaps more often, be labelled by their predominant symptom at any given time...tinnitus, vertigo, non-coeliac gluten enteropathy, non-cardiac chest pain, neuropathy, back pain, palpitations, breathing difficulties, uncorrectable visual defects, hyperacusis, insomnia, anorexia, headache/migraine, memory loss etc etc.

 

We here are often said to be a minority...those few unfortunate enough to experience difficulty in the use or withdrawal of psychotropics. I believe we are indeed a minority, those few fortunate enough to recognise that, however we began, our major problem became benzodiazepines. Those few trying to escape.

 

Only after we HAVE escaped will you know whether your CFS has resolved; only then will I know whether my post-infective gastroparesis, misdiagnosed as "psychogenic nausea and vomiting secondary to depression", is going to prove manageable.

 

In this context post-infective gastroparesis is common in babies and children, often following rotavirus. The rule is that in these age groups it will resolve. It may take months or years but it will get better. Oddly, in adults with the same condition the rule is that the condition will progress and worsen, resulting in awful invasive interventions and, in roughly 6%, death.

 

The unregarded difference between these groups, apart from age, is that babies and children are rarely treated to the delights of antidepressants or benzodiazepines. One way or another adults usually are. I was and it nearly killed me.

 

All specialties now seem to me to have expanding "bucket" or "dump" diagnoses...the place where they put all the relentlessly symptomatic that don't fit elsewhere after investigation. The place where, if they're not already on psychotropics and suffering accordingly, they soon will be...often courtesy of a secondary referral to a friendly psychiatrist.

 

At the psychiatrists these people will meet medicalised victims of life and probably genetics, unrecoverable grief reactions, PTSD, social phobics, phobics generally, relationship casualties, addled adolescents...these too will be taking dangerous drugs making unquantified contributions to the development and continuance of their "pathology".

 

So Iggy, I do believe in your condition, I always did. I also believe that a world in which 1 in 3 adults will at some time take benzodiazepines, antidepressants, an atypical antipsychotic or any random combination of these, is a world of pain, a world in real trouble.

 

Of course, this could all be another withdrawal symptom, another Benzo Lie

 

Take care, spartacus x 

[[Mo...]]

WOW Spartacus, this is the most interesting article i ever read. thank you.

[[sp...]]

Hey Claudia.

 

You are entirely welcome. The question is, whether I am entirely mad

 

With love, spartacus x

[[...]]

I am just going to add something and I may get my head bitten off but so be it. I must admit that so far I have not actually read all that has been written on this thread but will do so  at some point.

 

For the past I can't remember how many months I have not felt well and I mean not well. My case may be a bit complex I have no large bowel so foods I only just found out may be part of my bowel issues. Never the less I have bowel issues stomach pain. pelvic pain you name it I have got it. This a afct and not a fiction that I was told it was by the doctors.

 

I have really bad back pain that I have hardly been able to move, walk do sod all basically. So off I go to doctors and to cut a long story short all results are normal.

 

Yesterday I went to see a Neurologist because of my severe back pain and the tingling etc. better to be safe than sorry. But I knew at the back of my mind but in all honesty did not want to accept it was benzo related withdrawal it is just over 6 months since I became benzo free

 

I will be having a MRI scan on my back as with past history there is a slight issue  there I also have osteoporosis this was  diagnosed before benzo I may had so it may not help but I am no doctor

 

I asked the Neurologist after he did the prick test on my hands and feet and he said there was nothing to be concerned about that I was not suffering from a illness that can cause me health problems. I very nicely asked him if what I was going through as I was tingling as I was talking to him and I told him this could the symptoms be anything to do with the fact that I had come off benzos and that it could be withdrawal side effects.

 

Well he shook his head and said no this was not possible that these drugs can do this to you. So my question is how many people have been misdiagnosed with a illness that it really is withdrawal from benzos. I am by no means saying that people have NOT been correctly diagnosed. But seeing that a Neurologist had no idea what is causing my issues and can not explain the tingling etc could easily have come up with a diagnoses relating to the same symptoms that take for instance I am having.

 

I can not say any more on this matter and I am sorry that  it may come out all wrong. But all I am saying is that for me I now have to accept and I don't like it one bit that I am going through withdrawal.

 

Duck

[[Mo...]]

Hey Claudia.

 

You are entirely welcome. The question is, whether I am entirely mad

 

With love, spartacus x

 

Hmm,  the answer to this question is :

you sound like MRS ALBERT EINSTEIN to me. right ?

[[Mo...]]

Hey Duck, what did you expect my love ?

6 months off is nothing, this is Benzo wd, no piece of cake or birthday party,

you will have to try and accept it. there is only one Doctor on this earth who can help you,

and his name is ''DOCTOR TIME '', his nurse is called ''MS ACCEPTANCE''.

it is sad but true, give it another 14 months and it will all be different .

(i hope, wish and pray).

 

[[...]]

Hey Duck, what did you expect my love ?

6 months off is nothing, this is Benzo wd, no piece of cake or birthday party,

you will have to try and accept it. there is only one Doctor on this earth who can help you,

and his name is ''DOCTOR TIME '', his nurse is called ''MS ACCEPTANCE''.

it is sad but true, give it another 14 months and it will all be different .

(i hope, wish and pray).

 

Hi Claudia

 

Perhaps I had my head stuck in the sand oh I forgot it is storks still it is a bird of  the same family.

 

I have finally accepted it is what it is but it was that it happened all of a sudden and it took me by surprise like many of us the tapering for me was bad enough, but this takes the biscuit.

 

I had read enough on the forum but thought well it won't happen to me. How so wrong was I  Well I will just have to get on with it like we all have to. It's either that or curl up and die. And this Duck is not ready for that yet. I am not going to be stuffed and ready made for the oven just yet.

 

I saw my doctor yesterday before seeing the Neurologist and she also thinks I am talking out my posterior when I asked her the same question. So that makes three of them Neuro, doctor and psych nurse so they can think what they think and I know the facts. So I shook my doctors hand and said to her I will see you when I need to but just remember that I am not a nut case although you already think I am.

 

Duck

[[Mo...]]

Hi Duck,

you know after i posted this , i was sorry, it was too harsh and realistic i know. please

forgive , but i have stopped being a dreamer about this poison , the damage , the sxs

and the bloody long time it can take to recover. you are very brave and strong,

6 months is a big achievement but still way to go.

 

i hope you will write your book, and the day will come when we are able to post our

success stories. thats my dream now , i wish it will come true.

 

 

[[...]]

Hi Duck,

you know after i posted this , i was sorry, it was too harsh and realistic i know. please

forgive , but i have stopped being a dreamer about this poison , the damage , the sxs

and the bloody long time it can take to recover. you are very brave and strong,

6 months is a big achievement but still way to go.

 

i hope you will write your book, and the day will come when we are able to post our

success stories. thats my dream now , i wish it will come true.

 

Claudia thank you for your apology but in all honesty I needed  my feathers ruffled again and you and Mr. Duck have sure done so but I now know what I am up against. So one day at a time.

 

Duck

[[gu...]]

Hey spartacus, more good points I've got to say. Neither do I personally personally believe one can take benzos for years and years and come off them just like a walk in the park. Nothing, maybe only a minor sx or two for a couple of weeks and that's that as many doctors seem to believe.

 

I also think that we are the minority. The minority who have woken up to this scourge of a medication. There are so many disguises benzo w/d, tolerance and direct effects of how theses drugs work that I believe most people's benzo related illnesses sip through the cracks of the medical profession and get dignosed with whatever or nothing at all, as it happens to all of us here. In my case I've never been diagnosed with anything but that I'm a bit of a lunatic. Easy way to dismiss someone with a complaint either give them more drugs or a good jeer.

 

I know there are many doctors mean well, I've met a few GPs, surgeons and emergency docs meaning well, just that the constraints of their practice guidelines makes them hide their heads in the sand a lot of the time. I'm yet to meet a sane psych one though. I'm not saying there isn't...only that I haven't met one.

[[...]]

Morning guitarman

 

Well it must be catching because I have also been told that I am a lunatic 

 

Perhaps I am who knows. What I do know that I was a walking zombie typed duck with no feelings at all. At least I can say that my mind feels somewhat clearer.

 

Duck

[[sp...]]

Hey guitarman,

 

Many thanks for your post.

 

You mentioned earlier that you thought the pharmaceutical industry and doctors saw the side-effects of drugs as further prescribing opportunities...a good thing.

 

This may be true to some extent of Big Pharma. Certainly they don't mind "added value"...they are now routinely advising that the introduction of an antidepressant may need to be covered by benzodiazepines.

 

Even they though prefer the greater rewards of novelty. They are always at least one step ahead in the, "develop a drug, price it high and flog it relentlessly" game. They do this while expanding the indications for its use before the patent runs out or the cost of the side-effects, as estimated by their bean counters, climbs too high(in terms of litigation).

 

The rise of the atypical antipsychotics, quetiapine(Seroquel), olanzapine(Zyprexa), risperidone(Risperdal) and aripiprazole(Abilify), are the most recent examples of this...they cost roughly £100 for 28 days supply compared to £3 for an older antipsychotic like haloperidol. Abilify has the doubtful claim to fame of being the drug that costs the world the most at the present time.

 

Though there are not many psychotics on this forum, or worldwide, there are nonetheless many who will recognise these names. Psychosis was one of the few psychiatric diagnoses I didn't pick up along the primrose path but olanzapine, and the suicidal ideation common to its use, nearly killed me.

 

Not to appear like an apologist for the profession, but the picture is less clear for doctors. Most feel crushed by soaring demand...there is an acute shortage of doctors worldwide. The temptation to reach for a prescription pad offering a short-term solution to a symptom rather than thinking about where that symptom originated seems to be overwhelming many.

 

Unfortunately such short-termism escalates demand even further...and changes the nature of the treated population. They lose trust and patience. This, not an ageing population is what threatens the fabric of Western medicine.

 

And then there's Psychiatry. Since the Fifties psychiatrists appear to have been driven by the desire to make their "discipline" a hard science, they appear to have been all too willing to attempt to herd cats. In 1952 there were 106 psychiatric diagnoses; there are now, courtesy of the travesty that is the DSM, 374. At least one in four in the UK and US will suffer from one of these mental disorders IN ANY GIVEN YEAR.

 

These are crazy statistics. I read them in a recently published book called, "Cracked", by James Davies, a medical and social anthropologist. You may be interested in his view that, "Psychiatry is doing more harm than good".

 

Take care, spartacus

 

 

[[sp...]]

Hello Ducks,

 

And thank you for all your posts at a time when life is so hard for you.

 

As we've discussed you are, by definition, in withdrawal...from nitrazepam, diazepam, mirtazapine, lorazepam, risperidone and citalopram in the time we have known each other.

 

Given such a drug history in such a short time it's not surprising that you have had so many awful symptoms. Its equally unsurprising that, like all of us here, you have struggled to decide which are withdrawal and which need further investigation in their own right...people in withdrawal may also get ill.

 

Watchful waiting may be the best course but, given the inaccessible, slow-moving, fractured system that the NHS has become, this can test the nerves to shreds.

 

And you have been tested Ducks.

 

You will get there, we all will one day.

 

Take care, and love from spart x

 

 

[[gu...]]

Spartacus,

 

thank you for the interesting and honest posts.

Oh I also got some Olanzapine some time ago, and Halol (as they affectionately call it) handed out by psychic doctors, as their science gets closer to clairvoyance than reality.

It's a sad sad affair that doctors are pretty much reduced to script distributors and acting middlemen for the pharma industry. Everytime I've been to the doctor and mentioned a complaint such as a sore throat or a stomachache I let armed with script in hand only to chuck it away in the bin back home. They don't even want to touch you anymore if they can help it, it's like their squeamish. They look bored as well to be honest.

I know it's a catch 22 for doctors, difficult business handing out a prescription and hoping for the best, that you won't come back for more and if you do well, there you go. At the end of the day a GP on the NHS has 10 mins to see you, or you could get a long appt of 20, that's it. And as the NHS functions as a public health system monopoly it's nearly impossible to find any different opinions, approaches and options. It is what it is. I'm not advocating for an private style system either, but instead what I would consider a big step forward would be to educate people in order to empower them to have more control over their health and decisions regarding it.

 

Oh well, my brain is over heating now...

[[gu...]]

Hi Duck,

 

I know the feeling, I can even detect a smirk on their faces when I complain of any physical ailment pretty much. To them maybe some mood disorder fits just fine, so they can recommend me to go on some other funny pill.

I've had real physical complaints since I started to withdraw the benzo, and that's as real as anything else. Things like GI tract disturbances, dizziness, lower back pain, and a few more are just me being anxious and making a bigger deal than it must really be.

But I don't hold any grudges, in the end I know they can't help me anyway. So, probably the most scary feeling I've been trying to overcome is that I'm on my own to go through this in regards to healthcare that is.

 

 

[[Mo...]]

Guitarman, you have hit the nail right on the head, they don't even want to touch you ,

no examination, prescription pad, computer and a boring look on their face.

what an easy job this has become.

[[sp...]]

Hey guitarman,

 

The "pill for every ill" world we live in is undeniable and, as it tightens its grip, potentially catastrophic...our very own squalid path to dystopia. I would happily lay the blame for this at the clay feet of Big Pharma and deluded, docile doctors.

 

But it's not that simple...it never is.

 

Throughout recorded history, and I'm going back to cave paintings here, mankind has sought refuge and relief in mind-altering substances and procedures. A whirling dervish may spin on his heel, a trepannist happily drill holes in his head and all sorts of people try to get the "fun" out of fungi, but, whatever the justification, they are all doing the same thing...trying to alter their minds.

 

It is possible that pharmaceutical companies are doing nothing more than exploiting this all too human failing. But, it is equally possible that this human failing called them and their sweet treats into being. They are magic mushrooms writ large and made pervasive in a globalised society, their rise merely the stark evidence of modern mans' continued inability to handle undiluted awareness and his efficiency in addressing the problem.

 

In this context, apart from a passing reference to alcohol...What is an alcoholic? Someone who drinks more than his doctor...it's interesting to remember thalidomide, a synthetic derivative of our much loved glutamic acid, and perhaps the first minor tranquiliser/hypnotic.

 

Invented in the Fifties in Germany it was prescribed for anxiety, insomnia, gastritis, tension, and nausea, fatally including the nausea of pregnancy. Within months it was made available over the counter...for all the mentioned indications plus coughs, colds and headaches.

 

Let off the prescribing leash, it quickly became one of the most successful drugs in the history of medicine...and one of the most tragic. Around ten thousand babies were born without limbs, half died.

 

Many regulatory procedures were supposedly tightened in the wake of this disaster. Their main effect has been to stop the prescription of ALL drugs to pregnant women. Drug companies soon worked out that expensive, difficult testing of drugs on primates to capture a relatively small, yet potentially explosive market was not worth the hassle.

 

They also learned that, if you really wanted to make money, cutting out the middle man, the pill-pusher, was undoubtedly the way to go. The recent rise in the drugs available without prescription has been phenomenal and is accelerating all the time.

 

We are all doomed

 

But have a nice day anyway

 

spartacus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[sp...]]

Hello Claudia,

 

I refer you to my above cross post

 

Fresh out of the shower, I have to tell you that I'm definitely not Mrs Einstein. I'm Fred Einstein...the great man's less well-known and slightly retarded brother.

 

And I've got the hair and wrinkles to prove it.

 

With love from spartacus x 

[[St...]]

Hello Buddies.

 

Just to confirm...I AM a doctor and I AM human

 

Take care,

 

spartacus x

 

Blimey dear Spartacus,

i started feeling so guilty and embarrassed about my posts, since i know i am not

a heartless person and of course i know Doctors are human .

 

took me a long time to search through your posts and i was successful. 

i knew, you and i have a common point of view dear lady, 

so here we go if i may and i hope you take it with humour.

 

on march 28 th 2013. title of the thread: dangerous dump diagnoses (quote by spartacus)

'' i think what needs to happen is the odd psychiatrist, intern, whatever, should be

force fed Xanax for a couple of months and then cold turkeyed....in a cage ...in a public place.

 

i would not want to be inhumane; it would be a nice cage , all mod cons

and the odd banana thrown in.

it would be interesting to see how long it took them to crack and throw the bananas back

and demonstrate a touch of drug-seeking behaviour .''

 

i am so glad i found this post, because i can assure everyone, i do not need to be reminded

that Doctors are humans as well. 

 

 

I'm sorry but I just laughed out loud about feeding them Xanax and putting them in a cage

 

 

My primary care told me I was on a low dose when I was trying to taper off nasty ativan and yelled at me and said I had a mental disorder mind you I was in perfect health before mentally and physically I just couldn't sleep was stressed out about having another attack do to a traumatic event in my life. So I yelled back at him and reported him to the board he was over prescribing I found out he was just careless and refilled via phone for 3 months after he gave me the first bottle of 60 pills

 

Not all doctors are bad my sisters doctor is amazing she wouldn't give her anything at that time told her to do some yoga and excersise  eat right she doesn't even prescribe benzos she says there addicting and people can find other wats to fight anxiety  I'm going to her for a physical next week first time but won't get into detail about my situation.

 

Very hard to find a caring Doc these days