I don't want to lose my membership

[[os...]]

PS to Lizzy,

 

Yes i probably would live if i jumped off or fast tapered but i would be a mess... maybe i would get through it within a couple of months but i am not prepared to risk my sanity by doing so... it would not be a smooth landing and some unfortunates are ill for a long time post rapid taper... YES, maybe some are full of it on here, maybe some have far more issues than they care to admit to and maybe some do not speak the truth, i know some screw their recovery up with other drugs and with booze also... yet i am doing all i can to maintain wellness and i do not think i have any issues with anxiety other than withdrawal anxiety (which you know sucks big time)... Yes, there are too many horror stories and personally, i think some actually get caught up in a cycle of it all but it´s not for me... i want done here just as much as you do... getting off faster for me would be a crapshoot and it may backfire... so i stay doing this slowly and try and maintain my sanity where i can...

 

Oscar

[[to...]]

Everyone needs to calm down...  None of us know anything that the Team has addressed tortoise on.. So no one, not any of us should have any opnion on it.  Frankly, why does this crop up every few months with a member?  Majority ARE following the rules.  But, we seem to get rid of one problem person finally, and end up with another one... When the majority are going about doing things the majority of times fine... why does this need to be readdressed with one who apparently hasn't.  Tortoise, I have no idea what occurred, nor do I have any interest about it... You were addressed by the Team accordingly, why bring it open on the forum?? 

 

Though Tortoise, I found your replies to bmwzw thread  "Please Help" pretty unhelpful.. rather very unsupportive.  Personally, it made my blood boil! 

 

Respect the Team,  rules, follow the guidelines.... and support each other with kindness, especially when ones are suffering so much.

 

Pattylu

 

You have got to be kidding me. Read them again. They were very supportive. I feel terrible for what he is going through. What sentence made your blood boil?

[[Ho...]]

Tortoise, if you feel you can help members, do so. This is not helpful. I don't know why you started a thread about a private moderation issue. This was bound to become contentious. It has. So, you've said your piece. You don't agree with my determinations. Rarely do members who have been told to abide by the forum rules, agree with the determinations of the team? That's fine. This is nothing new.

 

If you're here to help. Do so within our rules.

[[to...]]

Tortoise, if you feel you can help members, do so. This is not helpful. I don't know why you started a thread about a private moderation issue. This was bound to become contentious. It has. So, you've said your piece. You don't agree with my determinations. Rarely do members who have been told to abide by the forum rules, agree with the determinations of the team? That's fine. This is nothing new.

 

If you're here to help. Do so within our rules.

 

Hope

 

I just don't want to lose my membership for being "scary". If the moderators rely on the written guidelines, so will I.

[[Ho...]]

Tortoise,

 

Perhaps this would have been better dealt with, with the team privately. I suggest if you have further questions, you send me a PM.

 

For other members, keep any personal attacks or judgements off of this thread and this forum.

 

 

Hope

[Guest [...]]

Oscar

 

Im personally for once am speechless over your unnecessary rant at me.  I have been nothing but your friend dont be surprised however if there is no present under your tree from me this xmas.  Im sure you didnt mean to hurt me today however you did.  By the way i c/t 80mg equiv of valium not a miniscule dose so you know what I may not be qualified to give advice but neither are you.  Yet you continue to advocate your method is the best method constantly and it works for you but the next day i wake up and find you questioning the method all over again so forgive me if I am confused.

 

anyway im not going to sit here and fight with you all day.  I have stuff to do but please settle down will you.  Take as long as you want as you tell me all the time 22 years you have been on doesnt really matter now does it if it takes a few more.  So you may be sick of my paradoxical reaction to benzos and by the way I do not push my story onto others but its well documented I presented you a link it happens to lots of people so who knows what its doing to those on this forum. 

[[to...]]

Lizzy,

 

Just to clarify this on the thread, i repeat, i have never said you were nuts for doing what you did, you have stated you were paradoxical a gazillion times and i get that... i really do, however, that does NOT mean that others are, i am really well right now, i was on this drug 22 years and only decided to stop after going to AA, i wanted to get clean of everything, yet the benzo, in many ways, was helpful over the years... i never really had any issue with it (probably would have become tolerant eventually though)...

 

My point is this... you were paradoxical, i was not or am not, YES i may be ill at times in withdrawal but it is the withdrawal that makes me ill at times, whenever i over taper i hit a wall and get sick, it is NOT because i am still on the drug... so please, stop putting your paradoxical reactions on others... your reinstatement of 2mg of Valium was never going to cover your existing withdrawal from a much higher dose and your body went crazy... it is hardly surprising and if you were paradoxical before that, even more reason why the V did not so anything but aggravate you, i know you went through a lot and i am bloody glad you are off now but that is your story Lizzy... personally, i am only ill when i speed up my taper, i cannot get into a medical facility and i do not want to have a heart attack or do something stupid getting off faster than i can handle... i have been on this drug half my life... the shock to my system would be huge... i can barely remember a time when i was free so to rush off would NOT be easy... it is not a case of what "floats my boat" and no, you are NOT qualified to give advice out, or judge others as being "nuts" for simply trying to get off these drugs safely, YOU could not do it and neither can i... that does not make me nuts any more than you... at least you had medical help at hand, i do not have that opportunity, if i did i would possibly go for it despite knowing that the result, in my case, would probably be pretty poor and i have no doubt i would be ill for many months post CT, are there any success stories from anyone inside a year post CT? Heck, we are lucky if we see anyone healed within a year post slow taper and you know it´s true... so please, give me a break huh? I am doing my best here and tapering is a huge pain but at least i am functional most of the time.

 

Oscar

 

Oscar

 

I failed my taper, so you can choose to ignore me if you want, but there is no evidence that being on benzos for 22 years amkes it any harder than being on for one year. It is all the luck of the draw. But it was not foolhardy for Lizzy to come off the way she did, I think it was gutsy. She went thru hell, but she would be worse off if she was tapering. Same goes for me. But we are routinely dismissed as benzo cowboys and we occupy a lower rung on the prestige ladder around here. I got attacked by pattylu on this thread for what reason? Because there is a bias against the people who got off fast. I think there is actaully some envy (not from you) because we could tolerate what most people would find utterly intolerable. So sorry if we wear it like a badge and are a bit militant. Anyway I am happy that you are feeling well these days, and I hope you make some progress on your taper.

[[os...]]

Oh Lizzy please... your story is yours and mine is mine, i really do not understand the problem here, OK, it happens to a lot of people, did i say you were a one off? No. I just do not understand why you even bring this up, my journey is mine and yours is yours... if i am nuts, fine, i will live with that... kind of makes life a bit easier anyhow.

 

Oscar

 

[[os...]]

Thanks Tort. I am massively fond of Lizzy and made up she got off and you also... i could not go that route, i asked only last week... so i am stuck with a slower taper but i am well and in no way suffering (see my progress blog)... i have virtually no symptoms at all but i hit a wall now and then... if i were suffering all the time, or even half the time, would i stay on a slower taper? Of course i would not... Lizzy means well but if i were able to get into a medical facility to get off i probably would but i can´t... yet maybe that is for the best, as slow as this is, i am doing OK, well, for the time being anyhow... maybe 22 years would not have too much of a bearing but i know my anxiety can get pretty nasty yet only when i am pushing ahead too fast... if it were all the time i would have got off ages ago... my taper is actually working, it´s just taking time... something most still need around here regardless of benzo status...

 

Oscar

[[ch...]]

 

 

OK, I'll bite. I usually stay away from these discussions but I cannot stand to see the bickering between members. I do not understand why anyone cares how another person tapers. I assume the person has given it a great deal of thought and is doing their best. So, if a c/t and detox worked for you, then I would believe a good way to go about supporting members who are also doing a rapid taper or c/t would be to say: This is what my circumstances were, this is what I did, and I hope this information helps make your road easier. If you did a slow taper, I would think you could also say the following: This is what my circumstances are, this is what is working for me, and I hope this makes your road easier.

 

If a person is having difficulty in withdrawal why does it matter to you they are in the midst of a taper OR a c/t? The symptoms suck either way. In my experience people are looking for validation and information. Everyone is in the position to do this on this board.

 

I have never been swayed too much by other people's opinions on my taper. I have found good information here and I have traveled my own road. I have great support outside this forum with Dr's who believe me and have helped me. Many are not so fortunate and can be more easily swayed. Do people not grasp this basic tenet-- that just because it worked for you, it may not work for others?

 

This forum is made up of people who do not respond to getting off benzos in a typical way, so obviously each person has their own road to travel. There is NO right way. I am sure EVERY person on this forum wishes they had an easier road. So let's try to find what unites us, and not divides us.

 

Benzo withdrawal is hard. Any which way you look at it. Let's just respect each other's paths and share what worked or didn't work for us, encourage others to stay the course, and hope for the best.

 

xo

 

 

[[Wi...]]

Lizzy,

 

Just to clarify this on the thread, i repeat, i have never said you were nuts for doing what you did, you have stated you were paradoxical a gazillion times and i get that... i really do, however, that does NOT mean that others are, i am really well right now, i was on this drug 22 years and only decided to stop after going to AA, i wanted to get clean of everything, yet the benzo, in many ways, was helpful over the years... i never really had any issue with it (probably would have become tolerant eventually though)...

 

My point is this... you were paradoxical, i was not or am not, YES i may be ill at times in withdrawal but it is the withdrawal that makes me ill at times, whenever i over taper i hit a wall and get sick, it is NOT because i am still on the drug... so please, stop putting your paradoxical reactions on others... your reinstatement of 2mg of Valium was never going to cover your existing withdrawal from a much higher dose and your body went crazy... it is hardly surprising and if you were paradoxical before that, even more reason why the V did not so anything but aggravate you, i know you went through a lot and i am bloody glad you are off now but that is your story Lizzy... personally, i am only ill when i speed up my taper, i cannot get into a medical facility and i do not want to have a heart attack or do something stupid getting off faster than i can handle... i have been on this drug half my life... the shock to my system would be huge... i can barely remember a time when i was free so to rush off would NOT be easy... it is not a case of what "floats my boat" and no, you are NOT qualified to give advice out, or judge others as being "nuts" for simply trying to get off these drugs safely, YOU could not do it and neither can i... that does not make me nuts any more than you... at least you had medical help at hand, i do not have that opportunity, if i did i would possibly go for it despite knowing that the result, in my case, would probably be pretty poor and i have no doubt i would be ill for many months post CT, are there any success stories from anyone inside a year post CT? Heck, we are lucky if we see anyone healed within a year post slow taper and you know it´s true... so please, give me a break huh? I am doing my best here and tapering is a huge pain but at least i am functional most of the time.

 

Oscar

 

Oscar

 

I failed my taper, so you can choose to ignore me if you want, but there is no evidence that being on benzos for 22 years amkes it any harder than being on for one year. It is all the luck of the draw. But it was not foolhardy for Lizzy to come off the way she did, I think it was gutsy. She went thru hell, but she would be worse off if she was tapering. Same goes for me. But we are routinely dismissed as benzo cowboys and we occupy a lower rung on the prestige ladder around here. I got attacked by pattylu on this thread for what reason? Because there is a bias against the people who got off fast. I think there is actaully some envy (not from you) because we could tolerate what most people would find utterly intolerable. So sorry if we wear it like a badge and are a bit militant. Anyway I am happy that you are feeling well these days, and I hope you make some progress on your taper.

Tortoise,

 

You state that you feel routinely dismissed and that you "occupy a lower rung on the prestige ladder around here" and that there is a bias against people who got off fast and then you go on to state that there is some envy because you "could tolerate what most people find utterly intolerable". 

 

What a load of crap. You claim the victim and at the same time intimate that somehow you tolerated something the rest of us couldn't.  You can't be both a victim and arrogant at the same time.  You have no right to assume you know what others are going thru, just as I have no right to make assumptions about your experience.  If I were to assume, I'd say you got off easy for whatever reason and that you haven't faced the same horror as many of us have, not that you have some super human power that we don't possess. 

 

But that's an unfair and most likely an inaccurate assumption.  So I will not make asssumptions and please refrain from making blanket statements about "us and them".  It serves NO purpose.  There is no "us and them" just people trying to survive the best way they can in an unreasonable situation.  "us and them" is not support.  "WE" is support.

[[to...]]

 

 

OK, I'll bite. I usually stay away from these discussions but I cannot stand to see the bickering between members. I do not understand why anyone cares how another person tapers. I assume the person has given it a great deal of thought and is doing their best. So, if a c/t and detox worked for you, then I would believe a good way to go about supporting members who are also doing a rapid taper or c/t would be to say: This is what my circumstances were, this is what I did, and I hope this information helps make your road easier. If you did a slow taper, I would think you could also say the following: This is what my circumstances are, this is what is working for me, and I hope this makes your road easier.

 

If a person is having difficulty in withdrawal why does it matter to you they are in the midst of a taper OR a c/t? The symptoms suck either way. In my experience people are looking for validation and information. Everyone is in the position to do this on this board.

 

I have never been swayed too much by other people's opinions on my taper. I have found good information here and I have traveled my own road. I have great support outside this forum with Dr's who believe me and have helped me. Many are not so fortunate and can be more easily swayed. Do people not grasp this basic tenet-- that just because it worked for you, it may not work for others?

 

This forum is made up of people who do not respond to getting off benzos in a typical way, so obviously each person has their own road to travel. There is NO right way. I am sure EVERY person on this forum wishes they had an easier road. So let's try to find what unites us, and not divides us.

 

Benzo withdrawal is hard. Any which way you look at it. Let's just respect each other's paths and share what worked or didn't work for us, encourage others to stay the course, and hope for the best.

 

xo

 

I think you are overlooking the main source of conflict. When someone is asking for taper advice, they sometimes get very divergent poinths of view. I rarely give the same advice to more than one person. I advise based on situation. If someone is pre-taper, I advise them to beging slowly and cautiously because a bad start to a taper can screw things up down the road. But when I see someone on 40mg or more of benzos who is already in acute withdrawal and suffering obvious comorbidity, I will mention the inpatient option. Invariably I get attacked for this. Yet the people advising go alow go slow are automatically assumed to be right. This is where I have experienced conflict. The folks who are tapering away happily and making progress, however slow, don't need tapering advice from me or anyone else.

[[pi...]]

Lizzy,

 

Just to clarify this on the thread, i repeat, i have never said you were nuts for doing what you did, you have stated you were paradoxical a gazillion times and i get that... i really do, however, that does NOT mean that others are, i am really well right now, i was on this drug 22 years and only decided to stop after going to AA, i wanted to get clean of everything, yet the benzo, in many ways, was helpful over the years... i never really had any issue with it (probably would have become tolerant eventually though)...

 

My point is this... you were paradoxical, i was not or am not, YES i may be ill at times in withdrawal but it is the withdrawal that makes me ill at times, whenever i over taper i hit a wall and get sick, it is NOT because i am still on the drug... so please, stop putting your paradoxical reactions on others... your reinstatement of 2mg of Valium was never going to cover your existing withdrawal from a much higher dose and your body went crazy... it is hardly surprising and if you were paradoxical before that, even more reason why the V did not so anything but aggravate you, i know you went through a lot and i am bloody glad you are off now but that is your story Lizzy... personally, i am only ill when i speed up my taper, i cannot get into a medical facility and i do not want to have a heart attack or do something stupid getting off faster than i can handle... i have been on this drug half my life... the shock to my system would be huge... i can barely remember a time when i was free so to rush off would NOT be easy... it is not a case of what "floats my boat" and no, you are NOT qualified to give advice out, or judge others as being "nuts" for simply trying to get off these drugs safely, YOU could not do it and neither can i... that does not make me nuts any more than you... at least you had medical help at hand, i do not have that opportunity, if i did i would possibly go for it despite knowing that the result, in my case, would probably be pretty poor and i have no doubt i would be ill for many months post CT, are there any success stories from anyone inside a year post CT? Heck, we are lucky if we see anyone healed within a year post slow taper and you know it´s true... so please, give me a break huh? I am doing my best here and tapering is a huge pain but at least i am functional most of the time.

 

Oscar

 

Oscar

 

I failed my taper, so you can choose to ignore me if you want, but there is no evidence that being on benzos for 22 years amkes it any harder than being on for one year. It is all the luck of the draw. But it was not foolhardy for Lizzy to come off the way she did, I think it was gutsy. She went thru hell, but she would be worse off if she was tapering. Same goes for me. But we are routinely dismissed as benzo cowboys and we occupy a lower rung on the prestige ladder around here. I got attacked by pattylu on this thread for what reason? Because there is a bias against the people who got off fast. I think there is actaully some envy (not from you) because we could tolerate what most people would find utterly intolerable. So sorry if we wear it like a badge and are a bit militant. Anyway I am happy that you are feeling well these days, and I hope you make some progress on your taper.

Tortoise,

 

You state that you feel routinely dismissed and that you "occupy a lower rung on the prestige ladder around here" and that there is a bias against people who got off fast and then you go on to state that there is some envy because you "could tolerate what most people find utterly intolerable". 

 

What a load of crap. You claim the victim and at the same time intimate that somehow you tolerated something the rest of us couldn't.  You can't be both a victim and arrogant at the same time.  You have no right to assume you know what others are going thru, just as I have no right to make assumptions about your experience.  If I were to assume, I'd say you got off easy for whatever reason and that you haven't faced the same horror as many of us have, not that you have some super human power that we don't possess. 

 

But that's an unfair and most likely an inaccurate assumption.  So I will not make asssumptions and please refrain from making blanket statements about "us and them".  It serves NO purpose.  There is no "us and them" just people trying to survive the best way they can in an unreasonable situation.  "us and them" is not support.  "WE" is support.

 

I suggest you do as Hope has posted and move on from this. These personal affronts will not be tolerated.

[[to...]]

Lizzy,

 

Just to clarify this on the thread, i repeat, i have never said you were nuts for doing what you did, you have stated you were paradoxical a gazillion times and i get that... i really do, however, that does NOT mean that others are, i am really well right now, i was on this drug 22 years and only decided to stop after going to AA, i wanted to get clean of everything, yet the benzo, in many ways, was helpful over the years... i never really had any issue with it (probably would have become tolerant eventually though)...

 

My point is this... you were paradoxical, i was not or am not, YES i may be ill at times in withdrawal but it is the withdrawal that makes me ill at times, whenever i over taper i hit a wall and get sick, it is NOT because i am still on the drug... so please, stop putting your paradoxical reactions on others... your reinstatement of 2mg of Valium was never going to cover your existing withdrawal from a much higher dose and your body went crazy... it is hardly surprising and if you were paradoxical before that, even more reason why the V did not so anything but aggravate you, i know you went through a lot and i am bloody glad you are off now but that is your story Lizzy... personally, i am only ill when i speed up my taper, i cannot get into a medical facility and i do not want to have a heart attack or do something stupid getting off faster than i can handle... i have been on this drug half my life... the shock to my system would be huge... i can barely remember a time when i was free so to rush off would NOT be easy... it is not a case of what "floats my boat" and no, you are NOT qualified to give advice out, or judge others as being "nuts" for simply trying to get off these drugs safely, YOU could not do it and neither can i... that does not make me nuts any more than you... at least you had medical help at hand, i do not have that opportunity, if i did i would possibly go for it despite knowing that the result, in my case, would probably be pretty poor and i have no doubt i would be ill for many months post CT, are there any success stories from anyone inside a year post CT? Heck, we are lucky if we see anyone healed within a year post slow taper and you know it´s true... so please, give me a break huh? I am doing my best here and tapering is a huge pain but at least i am functional most of the time.

 

Oscar

 

Oscar

 

I failed my taper, so you can choose to ignore me if you want, but there is no evidence that being on benzos for 22 years amkes it any harder than being on for one year. It is all the luck of the draw. But it was not foolhardy for Lizzy to come off the way she did, I think it was gutsy. She went thru hell, but she would be worse off if she was tapering. Same goes for me. But we are routinely dismissed as benzo cowboys and we occupy a lower rung on the prestige ladder around here. I got attacked by pattylu on this thread for what reason? Because there is a bias against the people who got off fast. I think there is actaully some envy (not from you) because we could tolerate what most people would find utterly intolerable. So sorry if we wear it like a badge and are a bit militant. Anyway I am happy that you are feeling well these days, and I hope you make some progress on your taper.

Tortoise,

 

You state that you feel routinely dismissed and that you "occupy a lower rung on the prestige ladder around here" and that there is a bias against people who got off fast and then you go on to state that there is some envy because you "could tolerate what most people find utterly intolerable". 

 

What a load of crap. You claim the victim and at the same time intimate that somehow you tolerated something the rest of us couldn't.  You can't be both a victim and arrogant at the same time.  You have no right to assume you know what others are going thru, just as I have no right to make assumptions about your experience.  If I were to assume, I'd say you got off easy for whatever reason and that you haven't faced the same horror as many of us have, not that you have some super human power that we don't possess. 

 

But that's an unfair and most likely an inaccurate assumption.  So I will not make asssumptions and please refrain from making blanket statements about "us and them".  It serves NO purpose.  There is no "us and them" just people trying to survive the best way they can in an unreasonable situation.  "us and them" is not support.  "WE" is support.

 

You are pretty smart. Arrogant and a victim at the same time. You kinda got me there, I must admit. Maybe I am feeling a bit like a victim because I spent 2 weeks sitting on the sideline. But you are right about one thing. I did not get off easy. Maybe in that I got better pretty quickly. But I spent a month on the psych ward and I lost my job and identity.

 

But I am not sure I agree with you other statement about tolerating things. I could have discharged myself from the hospital and gotten my benzos at home, but I didn't. But I see alot of people reinstating, the majority of CT/Rapid taperers do. It seems to me that many people break when they should bend.

[[Wi...]]

Will do.  Seems I let my frustration get the best of me.

[[os...]]

If anyone wants to know the reason why i go slow at tapering it is because i hit a wall so hard before and i felt temporarily that my mind was not my own and that scared me, you know what i am referring to... so no, i want to be safe doing this and it is my business, my recovery and my life... i would not be so bloody arrogant as to say i thought i knew what was best for someone else in these circumstances, we are talking about people´s lives here, not some badge or being at the bottom of a prestige ladder... that has nothing to do with recovery at all and i am actually fed up with wasting my time arguing this, it really is the least of my problems. If i am tapering because it floats my boat then fine, think what you will, i am really over it. Seriously over it.

 

Oscar

[Guest [...]]

I came strolling into this thread as I had been looking for Lizzy to see how she was today. I tracked her down here and just read this whole dialogue.

 

I cannot pretend that arguing about methods of withdrawing from drugs gets me fired up. Like Chrysanthemum, I think we should all do what suits us best given our life circumstances at the time.

 

I strongly believe that no one should remotely advise anyone on how they should tackle this issue. Describing how you coped yourself is helpful.

 

I think it is a great shame that people spoil their friendships arguing about this. It is like arguing about religion. No one will ever change their mind, once committed.

 

Personally, the more I read here, the more I think, 'Why not stay on my low dose forever?' Is it really worth going through the angst of tapering and then never knowing how long I will suffer later? We're a long time dead.

 

If my teeth and tongue return to normal I think it will be a sign that my body is basically OK again. A bit more social contact and a bit of study might fix up the old depression.

 

I am not cognitively impaired and never have been.

 

Just saying.

 

Xana 

[[to...]]

 

If my teeth and tongue return to normal I think it will be a sign that my body is basically OK again.

 

I am not cognitively impaired and never have been.

 

Just saying.

 

Xana 

 

I was severly cognitively impaired for months. But I will have you know that my teeth and tongue are doing great . Ha!

[Guest [...]]

I was severly cognitively impaired for months. But I will have you know that my teeth and tongue are doing great . Ha!

 

Show off! I'll give you a bit of cognition (Lizzy is positive I am a genius so I have some to spare) in exchange for a happy tongue and four bottom teeth!

 

Fair deal?

 

Let's have some love on this thread.

 

Xana   

 

PS I get a bit of temporary cognitive impairment (insanity?) if I get very anxious. Thought I had better admit to that. Full transparency from me - always.

[[to...]]

I was severly cognitively impaired for months. But I will have you know that my teeth and tongue are doing great . Ha!

 

Show off! I'll give you a bit of cognition (Lizzy is positive I am a genius so I have some to spare) in exchange for a happy tongue and four bottom teeth!

 

Fair deal?

 

Let's have some love on this thread.

 

Xana   

 

PS I get a bit of temporary cognitive impairment (insanity?) if I get very anxious. Thought I had better admit to that. Full transparency from me - always.

 

FOUR BOTTOM TEETH!!! I never said I had that many.

[Guest [...]]

FOUR BOTTOM TEETH!!! I never said I had that many.

 

So your bottom tooth is OK? I think we will have to renegotiate the deal then!

 

Xana  Look at all my shiny white teeth. I even have 2 implants which cost about $12,000 and THEY don't hurt! Only the perfect natural ones! 

[[ne...]]

This is hilarious...a guy starts a thread saying he doesn't want to get banned and it somehow turns into yet another "c/t vs slow taper" battle.  I mean really...hasn't everyone had enough of this crap? 

[[Ho...]]

It seems never ending, doesn't it? This is such a hot button issue. I do appreciate a middle of the road point of view. Do what works for you. Do what works for your lifestyle. Seems like this should be simple.

[[pa...]]

Everyone needs to calm down...  None of us know anything that the Team has addressed tortoise on.. So no one, not any of us should have any opnion on it.  Frankly, why does this crop up every few months with a member?  Majority ARE following the rules.  But, we seem to get rid of one problem person finally, and end up with another one... When the majority are going about doing things the majority of times fine... why does this need to be readdressed with one who apparently hasn't.  Tortoise, I have no idea what occurred, nor do I have any interest about it... You were addressed by the Team accordingly, why bring it open on the forum?? 

 

Though Tortoise, I found your replies to bmwzw thread  "Please Help" pretty unhelpful.. rather very unsupportive.  Personally, it made my blood boil! 

 

Respect the Team,  rules, follow the guidelines.... and support each other with kindness, especially when ones are suffering so much.

 

Pattylu

 

You have got to be kidding me. Read them again. They were very supportive. I feel terrible for what he is going through. What sentence made your blood boil?

 

Hello Tortoise....

 

Been watching the SF Giants, they just won the NWL.. I'm in the SF Bay Area, so this was very meaningful for us.

 

You stated "you have go to be kidding me.. Read them again. They were very supportive" (quoted as above)  Yes T, it began this way... let me quote it:

 

"My heart breaks for you with all your suffering.  You seem to be temporarily locked into acute withdrawal. At 9 months out, you are far out in the distribution curve for having symptoms of this severity,It doesn't mean that you have an underlying problem.  It just means that you are unlucky. b]

 

Ok...Words are VERY powerful, they can be helpful or not.  B was reaching out, after suffering the same wds for 9 months.  YOU STATED, "you are far out in the distribution curve for having symptoms of this severity".. 

 

Do you not understand how those words above do not help someone?  You basically supported his FEAR, that he was not dealing with NORMAL wds... that he should not be at this stage, as "you are far out in the distribution curve for having symptoms of this severity".

 

Your second reply:

 

"These are excellent suggestions, but what makes any of them unlikely is the unbelievable consistency in the severity of this symptoms.   I really think this is just bad persistent acute withdrawl, unless he is having a reaction to air.

 

I read your signature... I'm sure you suffered greatly.  In 9 weeks you healed.  I am grateful you have.  Though... we had another bbs who did the same.  His words were very much like yours... guess what.. he got hammered a few months later.  I truly pray you are totally free from it all, that this doesn't happen to you.  Though, you need to read how you are expressing yourself.  B, nor any other bbs is not "unlucky"... as most go through exactly what B has been going through.  You have been one of the few "lucky" ones.. I hope it holds out for you, I truly do.

 

So that's what made my blood boil.  You showed empathy and compassion, but then you turned the table..  Don't take your experience, with being healed in 9 weeks... and turn without any compassion and words to other.  One thing this experience does and should do, teach one, total compassion and empathy without any judgement in words attached... just compassion and no judgement. 

 

Truly, respect the Team... we have a wonderful site. If you have an issue in what they are addressing to you or any of us... it should be done correctly, not open on the forum.  If it is not done that way, it becomes arrogant on that member's part, as they are trying to justify things, gather support and attack the situation, rather then taking responsibility.

 

You see T... yes, you were very insensitive to B in how you responded in your replies.  I could have posted on B's thread back to you, but I would not do that to him, he's dealing with too much.  I could have pm you.. but why.  But, then I see, like some others before, doing exactly what you did, putting your complaint on the open forum, a challenge to the team... there is no way I can ever support that...

 

I completely agree with Chrysanthemum & Xana... they are totally right on.  To our dear Oscar & Lizzy.. you two have supported each other all along... Give each other a kiss and hug by pm...  We have all traveled to hard of a road, to be anything other then supportive with love to each other. 

 

I'm sorry T if you felt attacked by me. This was not my intent.  Its much easier to extend with a helping, loving hand.. and be very careful with words... 

 

A big hug to all.. Let us let this thread go away...  Let's just remember.. we have a wonderful Team, giving of their time, to have this site continue.  If we have an issue, keep it between us and them privately.. We are all going through too much to do it any other way.. and they also do.

 

Love to you all. Patty

[[to...]]

Lucky??

 

I lost my mind, 36lbs, my ability to drive, eat, sleep,screw be a father, husband. Wound up on a psych ward. Lost my job. If that is lucky, I would hate to see unlucky.

 

And you are like the 90th person to suggest that bad symptoms are right around the corner.

 

BMWZW is far out on the curve. He knows that. It is unfortunate, but his suffering exceeds what is usually seen this far out. It is not a critisizm. I truly feel bad for him.