I don't want to lose my membership

[[to...]]

I have 2 suspensions for various rule violations. I received fair warnings. The next time i am banned permanently. But I am worried that I will be banned not for violating a written rule. My concern is that I will be banned for a nebulous reason such as "scaring" someone. I am already prohibited from writing on the Introductions board. How does it benefit this community to silence someone like me, who has a TON of experience in the benzo wars, and who has been to hell and back. I've never been deliberately scary. I am actually one of the most optimistic people around, having survived a rapid inpatient taper and mostly healed quite quickly. Unfortunately some of the folks on this board are in a perpetual state of terror and are scared by EVERTHING.

 

There is a member who I am banned from speaking to. My crime? Telling him not to despair and suggesting inpatient psych treatment with inpatient taper. How is that scary? I did it and it worked out great. I really want to help people but I don't want to lose my membership in the process. Maybe I should confine myself to safe neutral topics like fish oil brands or Tart Cherry vs Valerian root, or someting else that is entirely inconsequential to someone who is in abject despair.

 

The value of this board is in having members with varied experiences and opinions. This community would suffer if everybody was a conforming Ashtonite.

[[Ho...]]

Tortoise,

 

I'm not certain why you decided to bring, what was a private moderation issue out to the forum but seeing as you have I will certainly respond to you in kind.

 

If your membership is suspended it will not be from lack of warning. You have been warned 6 times about your prescriptive posting, and you have continued. You have posted frightening posts to new members, and you have been warned about that as well several times. You have been suspend 2 times. I think this is fair warning, indeed.

 

Telling members what they should or should not do with their medication is prescriptive posting. This not permitted. You have been given a link to the rules of this forum 3 times.  Diagnosing a member (with depression) and recommending they go on an antidepressant is not permitted on this forum.

 

I'd say we've been pretty patient with you tortoise. We have hundreds of members who never break our rules and find help on this forum...and have for years.

 

Hope

[[Ho...]]

Btw, the member I asked you not to continue to contact, had asked you the same thing to you on the open forum. You were not banned from contacting the member. The member asked that you stop contacting him. You agreed.

[[to...]]

I was never shown an example of a frightening post to a new member. This is very subjective. What criteria are followed when one is trying to not be scary? And what is so scary about me. My healing time frame should be reassuring to new members. Somehow I have been simultaneously acused of both being "scary" and down playing the risks of CT/rapid taper.

[Guest [...]]

oh Tortoise

 

I for one would hate to see you banned of bb.  I wondered where you had gone to.  I think honesty is the best policy for sure you have survived a rapid detox i think its great for you to hang around and offer real support to people.  I guess for me i have never found you scary at all but a very good friend who understands what its like to be in hell.  I guess you need to stick to the rules and work out how you can get your message across in a more lets say refined way just like me.  I dont agree with lots that is said around here im clearly not the norm either.  If you were a turtle taper you would fit in so much better coz you would be amongst like minded people.  so you are not scary to me but us c/t people scare lots of people that is why they run a mile and you freak them out when you challenge them.  anyway just be good before you get sent back to the naughty corner for good.

 

i agree with lots you say there are people on here that need some real intervention but we are banned from saying it.  idk you can clearly see who is depressed or not i never got why we couldnt say it when if someone is crying and crying clearly they are depressed why not call a spade a spade i dont get it.  Im actually qualified to diagnose how come i cant?  i can send my credentials and arent you a medical person why cant we make suggestions idk.

 

[[to...]]

Thanks Lizzy

 

The person who I "diagnosed" with depression was diagnosed by her doctor with depression, was being treated for depression and complained of feeling depressed. So I am not sure how I was establishing any new diagnosis. But like you said, we are judged differently. I feel like a criminal for getting off the benzos fast. Well I tried to go slow and IT DIDN"T WORK. I held the same dose of valium for 6 weeks and I KEPT GETTING SICKER!!!!! And you'll never guess how I got well. I WENT TO THE HOSPITAL!!!!!

God forbid I tell my story. It is just too SCARY.

[Guest [...]]

yes me to tortoise

 

i knew it was the drugs that was killing me and i have to say common sense stepped in somehow and i was like this is it im going to do this or i will not be around much longer.  so yes off i went into hell but eventually guess what happens you come out of it.  Id hate to think of how i would have lived like that for much longer.  You are a smart guy and are recovering I think that is what most people dont get its scary but you can do it.  You are not a criminal you have committed no crime at all some people have paradoxical reactions to benzos its a documented fact hang on ill just get you something to read this

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradoxical_reaction

 

for all those out there here is evidence that some people cant take any benzos without it causing a big amount of damage to you. 

[[pi...]]

oh Tortoise

 

I for one would hate to see you banned of bb.  I wondered where you had gone to.  I think honesty is the best policy for sure you have survived a rapid detox i think its great for you to hang around and offer real support to people.  I guess for me i have never found you scary at all but a very good friend who understands what its like to be in hell.  I guess you need to stick to the rules and work out how you can get your message across in a more lets say refined way just like me.  I dont agree with lots that is said around here im clearly not the norm either.  If you were a turtle taper you would fit in so much better coz you would be amongst like minded people.  so you are not scary to me but us c/t people scare lots of people that is why they run a mile and you freak them out when you challenge them.  anyway just be good before you get sent back to the naughty corner for good.

 

i agree with lots you say there are people on here that need some real intervention but we are banned from saying it.  idk you can clearly see who is depressed or not i never got why we couldnt say it when if someone is crying and crying clearly they are depressed why not call a spade a spade i dont get it.  Im actually qualified to diagnose how come i cant?  i can send my credentials and arent you a medical person why cant we make suggestions idk.

 

Lizzy,

 

You knew the forum rules when you joined, they are clear and concise. Everyone is welcome to give their own opinion based on their own experience.  It is perfectly fine for you to say what you might do in a particular instance.  It is not OK to diagnose anyone here on the forum, neither is it permitted to tell a person what they should do.  It will not be tolerated.  You said yourself you don't know the people here on the forum, well, they also do not know you.  Precribing to someone on an internet forum is obviously dangerous and will not be allowed.

[[pi...]]

Thanks Lizzy

 

The person who I "diagnosed" with depression was diagnosed by her doctor with depression, was being treated for depression and complained of feeling depressed. So I am not sure how I was establishing any new diagnosis. But like you said, we are judged differently. I feel like a criminal for getting off the benzos fast. Well I tried to go slow and IT DIDN"T WORK. I held the same dose of valium for 6 weeks and I KEPT GETTING SICKER!!!!! And you'll never guess how I got well. I WENT TO THE HOSPITAL!!!!!

God forbid I tell my story. It is just too SCARY.

 

tortoise,

 

You are judged no differently than anyone else here on the forum. You simply choose to ignore forum policies and guidelines.  Many times you have been reminded of these rules, that you agreed to when you joined.

[[Em...]]

Why can't tortoise suggest someone use an a/d?  People suggest sleeping aid ideas all the time.  Tortoise should not be to blame if someone goes out and starts an a/d.  We are all grown ups here.  I think you are taking your job as an online "moderator"  a little too serious.

 

I'm glad you're better tortoise!

[[to...]]

Why can't tortoise suggest someone use an a/d?  People suggest sleeping aid ideas all the time.  Tortoise should not be to blame if someone goes out and starts an a/d.  We are all grown ups here.  I think you are taking your job as an online "moderator"  a little too serious.

 

I'm glad you're better tortoise!

 

Thanks Emily. And I think my words were more like "have you considered an antidepressant?" rather that "you need an antidepressant". I do agree with the non-prescriptive guidelines though. The stuff that goes on on some of the other benzo sites is a bit trashy in my opinion.

[Guest [...]]

yes and im not the one questioning the rules as such im just saying why cant we use our skills i have given loads of advice im a trained person and people love it and guess what its better imo to have it on the board rather than the secretive pm's that people give out lord knows what they are saying and telling people to do in them so i reckon on the board visual to everyone so peeps can make the right choices for them.  tortoise is not a criminal he has been in jail for the last two weeks i dont know what he even did other than tell his own truth.  I will say the wrath of the taperers has scared the hell out of me with the wrongness of what I did if i didnt know how wrong i was there i wouldnt have known i was even wrong until i heard it off them so why is it wrong of the c/t people to give advice.  id like to give much more but i dont coz i stick to the guidelines.  im saying this in all due respect but why dont the taperers get banned for telling us how wrong we did it its the same thing.  ive never seen one person get banned for saying oh no you are at risk of getting protracted withdrawal omg you should never have just stopped xanax you should have done a slow cross over omg you are going to be sick for soooooo long it goes on and on and on.

 

modified for spelling only

[[Ho...]]

Yes we do take our roles here seriously. We have a lot of people who depend on our integrity. Most respect that.

 

Here is the bottom line, a determination has been made. You don't have all the information the team has. Our determinations have been made based on that information. You may not like our rules. You don't have to you only need to abide by them. At the very least respect the people who are trying to keep this forum open.

 

Whether you all feel tortoise has broken the rules or not is irrelevant He has..period.

 

 

[[Ho...]]

yes and im not the one questioning the rules as such im just saying why cant we use our skills i have given loads of advice im a trained person and people love it and guess what its better imo to have it on the board rather than the secretive pm's that people give out lord knows what they are saying and telling people to do in them so i reckon on the board visual to everyone so peeps can make the right choices for them.  tortoise is not a criminal he has been in jail for the last two weeks i dont know what he even did other than tell his own truth.  I will say the wrath of the taperers has scared the hell out of me with the wrongness of what I did if i didnt know how wrong i was there i wouldnt have known i was even wrong until i heard it off them so why is it wrong of the c/t people to give advice.  id like to give much more but i dont coz i stick to the guidelines.  im saying this in all due respect but why dont the taperers get banned for telling us how wrong we did it its the same thing.  ive never seen one person get banned for saying oh no you are at risk of getting protracted withdrawal omg you should never have just stopped xanax you should have done a slow cross over omg you are going to be sick for soooooo long it goes on and on and on.

 

modified for spelling only

 

Lizzy,

 

You are not privy as to why anyone is banned on this forum so your statement is erroneous.

 

As for why you can't give advice? Because we are not doctors. We don't know other members true health problems. We only know what they post here. No medical profession in their right mind would give anyone advice on anything based on what was written on a forum. Neither do we. This is why we have this rule.

[[to...]]

yes and im not the one questioning the rules as such im just saying why cant we use our skills i have given loads of advice im a trained person and people love it and guess what its better imo to have it on the board rather than the secretive pm's that people give out lord knows what they are saying and telling people to do in them so i reckon on the board visual to everyone so peeps can make the right choices for them.  tortoise is not a criminal he has been in jail for the last two weeks i dont know what he even did other than tell his own truth.  I will say the wrath of the taperers has scared the hell out of me with the wrongness of what I did if i didnt know how wrong i was there i wouldnt have known i was even wrong until i heard it off them so why is it wrong of the c/t people to give advice.  id like to give much more but i dont coz i stick to the guidelines.  im saying this in all due respect but why dont the taperers get banned for telling us how wrong we did it its the same thing.  ive never seen one person get banned for saying oh no you are at risk of getting protracted withdrawal omg you should never have just stopped xanax you should have done a slow cross over omg you are going to be sick for soooooo long it goes on and on and on.

 

modified for spelling only

 

I see people say things like "definiely don't reinstate" and not get punished. If I said "definitely don't reinstate" I would get banned.

[[os...]]

Just for the record Lizzy, i have never, not once, ever told you that you were "nuts" to go CT in a medical facility, you however, think it perfectly acceptable to refer to slow taperer´s as "nuts"... Just for your information, i actually asked my GP if i could get into hospital to detox off these last mgs and the answer was negative... besides, there are not many that CT or rapid taper that heal anytime soon anyways, so in a way, despite the fact my taper is slow, i have no doubt i would take just as long to heal after 22 years on the drug in any case... being "free" is not just about being off the drug and you know it... if that were the case, many would have healed and posted success stories long ago... i could write a list of names of members here that have been "free" for well over a year and are still sick, so going fast seems to solve very little for most and i do not think i would benefit any more from being off in a short space of time, being benzo-wise for the past year has taught me a lot about withdrawal and i know that the absence of the drug is not necessarily the end of this journey.

 

Oscar

[[Wi...]]

You say "i'm not the one questioning the rules" however when you then ask "why cant we use our skills i have given loads of advice im a trained person" you actually are questioning the rules. 

 

Greater risk of protracted w/d as a result of c/t or rapid taper is what the research out there suggests.  If that is the way someone has to get off the drug or chooses to get off the drug, that is a known risk, again based on what little research there is. I have yet to see research anywhere that advocates c/t.  If you do find it, please share with the rest of us.  This IS NOT a judgement or opinion about choices of how one w/d's.  It's a statement of possible consequenses based on actions based on the research that's out there .

[[Ho...]]

yes and im not the one questioning the rules as such im just saying why cant we use our skills i have given loads of advice im a trained person and people love it and guess what its better imo to have it on the board rather than the secretive pm's that people give out lord knows what they are saying and telling people to do in them so i reckon on the board visual to everyone so peeps can make the right choices for them.  tortoise is not a criminal he has been in jail for the last two weeks i dont know what he even did other than tell his own truth.  I will say the wrath of the taperers has scared the hell out of me with the wrongness of what I did if i didnt know how wrong i was there i wouldnt have known i was even wrong until i heard it off them so why is it wrong of the c/t people to give advice.  id like to give much more but i dont coz i stick to the guidelines.  im saying this in all due respect but why dont the taperers get banned for telling us how wrong we did it its the same thing.  ive never seen one person get banned for saying oh no you are at risk of getting protracted withdrawal omg you should never have just stopped xanax you should have done a slow cross over omg you are going to be sick for soooooo long it goes on and on and on.

 

modified for spelling only

 

I see people say things like "definiely don't reinstate" and not get punished. If I said "definitely don't reinstate" I would get banned.

 

Tortoise,

 

If you have seen rules being broken then you should report them and we will deal with them. We got several reports about you. That's how we became aware of you. This forum is monitored by our members. We rely on that. If you see something that you feel is wrong, please report it to the team.

[Guest [...]]

ok

 

 

www  I have never given advice in regards to tapers I have given advice in other areas im a trained counsellor so most of my posts are supportive of nature and caring just how i would treat any of my clients.  so i apologise if you got the wrong idea. I respect you and like you.

 

see here we go again im now under attack for stating my truth.  and you Oscar.  were we not sailing on a boat a minute ago and now i find you here going off at me.  So for your information you didnt tell me that about doing a c/t because way before i met you i was already nuts from benzos did you read the link i posted ITS TRUE some people do go nuts on benzos and quite clearly go even more so getting off them.  I do think its nuts to taper for years ok there it is. its out there I SAID IT not in secret just like you all think we are nuts to do what we did.  You know what i do believe in though is freedom of choice if you are happy doing what you are doing that is great i totally respect that but i dont want to be a slave to this for any longer than i deemed necessary its my choice. and you know that deep in your heart i have supported you from day dot.  my doctor regularly drops people at guess what 2.5mg of valium that is the standard dose that people are stepped off benzos in the free world.  guess what they are not on the forum they are just fine and in full operation.

 

the list of names you have there is a list just as long of turtle tapers who guess what are sick as dogs so its all relative i could say that some of the advice that people have given like this for example:  person is so desperately ill clearly having a paradoxical reaction from benzos and then someone comes along and says slow it down or even worse UPDOSE i mean that advice i got was nearly the death of me coz guess what they didnt know about my med sensitivity as we dont know about what underlying issues mental or otherwise others have i mean do you really believe that everyone is speaking their truth I DONT THINK SO.

[[pa...]]

Everyone needs to calm down...  None of us know anything that the Team has addressed tortoise on.. So no one, not any of us should have any opnion on it.  Frankly, why does this crop up every few months with a member?  Majority ARE following the rules.  But, we seem to get rid of one problem person finally, and end up with another one... When the majority are going about doing things the majority of times fine... why does this need to be readdressed with one who apparently hasn't.  Tortoise, I have no idea what occurred, nor do I have any interest about it... You were addressed by the Team accordingly, why bring it open on the forum?? 

 

Though Tortoise, I found your replies to bmwzw thread  "Please Help" pretty unhelpful.. rather very unsupportive.  Personally, it made my blood boil! 

 

Respect the Team,  rules, follow the guidelines.... and support each other with kindness, especially when ones are suffering so much.

 

Pattylu

[[Wi...]]

Lizzy,

 

I feel the very same about you. And it make me really sad that people have made statements about your w/d that were inappropriate and caused you any distress.

 

I would be lying if I didn't say I hate tapering and that I would give just about anything to be off this damn drug already.  With that said, I couldn't c/t, I tried.  I spent 4 months early onbetween trying to rapid taper off of ativan at my idiot of a doctors suggestion, trying a myriad of psych drugs, again at her suggestion, c/o'ing to valium 3 times because at 40 mg, valium caused serious problems for me that ativan didn't.  After finally getting on valium, despite the fact that I was tapering it took forever for me to adjust to the differences between the two benzos.  Since then I've been diagnosed with Grave's disease as you know and it would appear that I have been sick with that for as long as I've been tapering.  Add to that the ruptured appendix in July. 

 

Why I'm saying all this is simply to say that even with all of this, I have been able to minimze the immense destruction that would have been my life had I w/d'n any other way than by slow tapering. Aside the first four months and the appendix month, I have been able to work.  I have no choice and the absolute truth is I could not have survived any of this had I done this taper any differently.

 

It's also true that I'm increadibly weary of this process and have often wanted just to quit.  I've c/t'd many drugs in my life both illicit and prescription.  I've suffered some symptoms as a result.  But not ONE was like this for me.  Is it crazy that it would take this long to get off a drug? ABSOLUTELY.  However for me, it's the only option I have.  But it's a shi**y option nonetheless.

[[Fa...]]

I have 2 suspensions for various rule violations. I received fair warnings. The next time i am banned permanently. But I am worried that I will be banned not for violating a written rule. My concern is that I will be banned for a nebulous reason such as "scaring" someone. I am already prohibited from writing on the Introductions board. How does it benefit this community to silence someone like me, who has a TON of experience in the benzo wars, and who has been to hell and back. I've never been deliberately scary. I am actually one of the most optimistic people around, having survived a rapid inpatient taper and mostly healed quite quickly. Unfortunately some of the folks on this board are in a perpetual state of terror and are scared by EVERTHING.

 

There is a member who I am banned from speaking to. My crime? Telling him not to despair and suggesting inpatient psych treatment with inpatient taper. How is that scary? I did it and it worked out great. I really want to help people but I don't want to lose my membership in the process. Maybe I should confine myself to safe neutral topics like fish oil brands or Tart Cherry vs Valerian root, or someting else that is entirely inconsequential to someone who is in abject despair.

 

The value of this board is in having members with varied experiences and opinions. This community would suffer if everybody was a conforming Ashtonite.

 

 

There seems to be a double standard by one of the moderators Tortoise.  Maybe it's the benzos.

 

[[Ho...]]

I have 2 suspensions for various rule violations. I received fair warnings. The next time i am banned permanently. But I am worried that I will be banned not for violating a written rule. My concern is that I will be banned for a nebulous reason such as "scaring" someone. I am already prohibited from writing on the Introductions board. How does it benefit this community to silence someone like me, who has a TON of experience in the benzo wars, and who has been to hell and back. I've never been deliberately scary. I am actually one of the most optimistic people around, having survived a rapid inpatient taper and mostly healed quite quickly. Unfortunately some of the folks on this board are in a perpetual state of terror and are scared by EVERTHING.

 

There is a member who I am banned from speaking to. My crime? Telling him not to despair and suggesting inpatient psych treatment with inpatient taper. How is that scary? I did it and it worked out great. I really want to help people but I don't want to lose my membership in the process. Maybe I should confine myself to safe neutral topics like fish oil brands or Tart Cherry vs Valerian root, or someting else that is entirely inconsequential to someone who is in abject despair.

 

The value of this board is in having members with varied experiences and opinions. This community would suffer if everybody was a conforming Ashtonite.

 

 

There seems to be a double standard by one of the moderators Tortoise.  Maybe it's the benzos.

 

 

While it's true that many of our team members are also tapering, we can't be everywhere on the forum and look to our members to be self-moderating to a degree and report posts that go against our guidelines. What may look like a "double standard" is actually a small team of people doing the best they can.

 

[[Wi...]]

I have 2 suspensions for various rule violations. I received fair warnings. The next time i am banned permanently. But I am worried that I will be banned not for violating a written rule. My concern is that I will be banned for a nebulous reason such as "scaring" someone. I am already prohibited from writing on the Introductions board. How does it benefit this community to silence someone like me, who has a TON of experience in the benzo wars, and who has been to hell and back. I've never been deliberately scary. I am actually one of the most optimistic people around, having survived a rapid inpatient taper and mostly healed quite quickly. Unfortunately some of the folks on this board are in a perpetual state of terror and are scared by EVERTHING.

 

There is a member who I am banned from speaking to. My crime? Telling him not to despair and suggesting inpatient psych treatment with inpatient taper. How is that scary? I did it and it worked out great. I really want to help people but I don't want to lose my membership in the process. Maybe I should confine myself to safe neutral topics like fish oil brands or Tart Cherry vs Valerian root, or someting else that is entirely inconsequential to someone who is in abject despair.

 

The value of this board is in having members with varied experiences and opinions. This community would suffer if everybody was a conforming Ashtonite.

 

 

There seems to be a double standard by one of the moderators Tortoise.  Maybe it's the benzos.

Good old Faulk.  if you don't like the rules or the standards, I would imagine you are welcome to take your ball and go home.

[[os...]]

Lizzy,

 

Just to clarify this on the thread, i repeat, i have never said you were nuts for doing what you did, you have stated you were paradoxical a gazillion times and i get that... i really do, however, that does NOT mean that others are, i am really well right now, i was on this drug 22 years and only decided to stop after going to AA, i wanted to get clean of everything, yet the benzo, in many ways, was helpful over the years... i never really had any issue with it (probably would have become tolerant eventually though)...

 

My point is this... you were paradoxical, i was not or am not, YES i may be ill at times in withdrawal but it is the withdrawal that makes me ill at times, whenever i over taper i hit a wall and get sick, it is NOT because i am still on the drug... so please, stop putting your paradoxical reactions on others... your reinstatement of 2mg of Valium was never going to cover your existing withdrawal from a much higher dose and your body went crazy... it is hardly surprising and if you were paradoxical before that, even more reason why the V did not so anything but aggravate you, i know you went through a lot and i am bloody glad you are off now but that is your story Lizzy... personally, i am only ill when i speed up my taper, i cannot get into a medical facility and i do not want to have a heart attack or do something stupid getting off faster than i can handle... i have been on this drug half my life... the shock to my system would be huge... i can barely remember a time when i was free so to rush off would NOT be easy... it is not a case of what "floats my boat" and no, you are NOT qualified to give advice out, or judge others as being "nuts" for simply trying to get off these drugs safely, YOU could not do it and neither can i... that does not make me nuts any more than you... at least you had medical help at hand, i do not have that opportunity, if i did i would possibly go for it despite knowing that the result, in my case, would probably be pretty poor and i have no doubt i would be ill for many months post CT, are there any success stories from anyone inside a year post CT? Heck, we are lucky if we see anyone healed within a year post slow taper and you know it´s true... so please, give me a break huh? I am doing my best here and tapering is a huge pain but at least i am functional most of the time.

 

Oscar