I'm still doing poorly. Update from Crittercuddler. Encouragment? Advice?

[[cr...]]

Thank you Fraidycat, you have been so great. 

 

I went and bought some N-acetyl-L-cysteine today.  I looked at whey protein powder while I was there. I see you can buy it in flavored mixes.  I guess I will get some soon.

[[Fr...]]

Just checking in Critter....how have you been?  Better I hope!

[[cr...]]

Fraidycat,

 

    Thank you for stopping by to check on me.  I wish I had happy news, but I don't.

 

    I'm doing very poorly.  I don't know if I am allowed to say this on here, but the suicidal thoughts have been very bad the last few days.  :'(

[[Fr...]]

Oh Critter!  Hang in there!!!! My father just took his own life a little over a moth ago and I (as well as the rest of my family ) was devastated.  It sounds like the SSRI you were/are (?) taking isn't doing much and you need to go back to your doc.  If your doc is part of the problem maybe get a referral to someone else.  I read a comment from a doctor during an interview when he was asked about the people who know something is wrong, don't feel right, and are getting frustrated...he said you are always just one visit away from finding the right practitioner.  He also said that is the ones you are seeing still have no real answer or are dismissive then ask them point blank why you feel bad if there is nothing wrong.

 

I really think you need to go back to the doctor.  Also, have you thought about any alternative therapies like acupuncture?  Myself and a few others here have tried it for various things and it does work.  One woman has been getting treatments specifically for tinnitus which I think you mentioned had been problematic for you.

 

Even though we don't all see each other face to face here, it doesn't mean we aren't genuinely concerned and caring.  I wish I could give you a real hug and just hold your hand...I know how hard this is and that there are other factors complicating your recovery. But it will get better, even when it doesn't feel like it.  Do you have any family close to you that you can have come be with you?

 

Please feel free to send me any sort of message and I will answer as soon as I am able.  Take care of yourself sweetie and try to relax and rest.  As lame as it sounds...try something to occupy yourself like a book or some movies...anything to take your mind off of what is happening with your body. GREAT BIG (((HUGS)))!!!

[[...]]

Critter you are free to say whatever you need to on here. 

 

You really should get back to the doctor and don't be alone.  I know what you are feeling.  I had those feelings for a day or two here and there and they are  very scary. 

 

We do care here and are very concerned, but only YOU can do something about how you are feeling.  Please get someone to help you during this very hard time.

[[Mi...]]

  Hello again to my wonderful community of support here at Benzo Buddies...

 

  I wanted to write an update thread, so here we go.

 

  Unlike many who stop posting on benzobuddies because they are feeling better, I haven't been posting because I have been feeling awful. :'(  To remind everyone quickly and to bring those up to speed who don't know my story, I was on Klonopin 3mg daily for about a year.  In February of 2008 I began a self guided taper that lasted until the very beginning of June of 2008.  I tried at that point to cold turkey off of .5mg daily.  I had a horrible withdrawal experience for three days after which point I reinstated and was shortly thereafter hospitalized.  At the hospital I was crossed over to Valium immediately at a lower than equivalent dose and I was quickly tapered off of the Valium over a period of about two weeks.  So, my last daily benzo dose was on June 15, 2008.  I have been therefore approximately 5 months benzo free.  (I say approximately because, like some others here, during the beginning of my drug free period I did slip up three times, each time taking I believe a .25mg dose.)

 

    My entire taper was incredibly awful, and the first few weeks and months benzo free were also such a nightmare.  You can read my first post here http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=8333.msg100337#msg100337.  At this point today I am not interested in recalling it in great detail, but just know that I experienced persistent depersonlization, derealization, agoraphobia, and deep depression that was suicidal in nature.  I also have dealt with significant concentration and memory difficulties, insomnia, and tinnitus.  Many of these symptoms are still present today at 5 months out, in varying degrees.

 

    So, in summary I am writing to say that I am not doing well at all.  To give you an update on the symptoms I am still having-

 

     Tinnitus- I have had constant ringing in my ears for 5 months now.  The ringing started during my last week of Valium and has not given me a moment of peace and quiet since then.  It is driving my out of my mind.  Sometimes I sit in bed at night and cry because I am so frustrated by how ridiculously loud it is and that it never goes away. It makes it very hard to fall asleep and hard to focus and concentrate.  I try to focus on other sounds and think of other things, but it inevitably demands my attention.  I often fantasize about beating my head to a pulp with a iron skillet because I am so frustrated by it.  I really worry it will be with me for the rest of my life and I can't imagine that. It is not acceptable. :'(  I believe the tinnitus is responsible for the derealization I am still feeling, as I only still feel that awful sensation when my tinnitus is bothering me the most which is when I am lying down or when it is quiet.  I can even hear it with the television on.  It is stealing my enjoyment from life, exacerbating my already very severe depression, and robbing me of peace and quiet.  From the research I have done I see that having tinnitus this far out is not very common; that tinnitus is still not understood well at all; and that no medication has been proven effective in treating it really except benzos that I can see, and taking a benzo to relieve this is NOT an option.  I am seeing an ENT doctor next month.  I am hoping TRT or a masker can bring me some relief.

 

   Depersonlization- I am sure this is strongly related to my deep depression, the fact that I have been unable to work or go to school for a long time now, etc...

 

   Insomnia- I still have a very hard time falling asleep at night.  I have had to take Seroquel most every night this last month to sleep.

 

   Depression- I had severe depression before I ever took Klonopin.  On Klonopin the depression worsened and since getting off Klonopin it is still very bad and at a dangerous depth.  I contemplate suicide on a daily basis.  Many times I fantasize about killing myself or the sweet release of death to try to relax at night when I go to sleep.  I of course have all of the other classic symptoms of depression as well- not taking care of myself (not eating or bathing regulary), loss of interest/enjoyment in most everything that I once loved, no self confidence, no hope, etc.. etc...

 

   Muscle jerking (myoclonus)- At five months out I am still having muscle jerks.  During a typical day I will only have a few light jerks, BUT when I take an anti-depressant (which has seemed necessary due to the suicidal depression) the muscle jerks become disabling at night when I am trying to sleep.  I get sleep myoclonus over and over and over again. It is so exhausting and makes it impossible to fall asleep.  As soon as my muscles begin to relax my whole body or a group of muscles give a quick and intense jerk.  Again, they are severe at night, when trying relax/sleep, when I am taking an anti-depressant.  I have tirelessly scored the internet for research on this to try and understand why it is happening and I have not learned much.

 

   Memory/concentration- Although it feels like it is better than it was, it is still really lousy compared to what it used to be.  I am so scared to even try to do anything that requires mental ability because I am instantly reminded of how much of a moron I feel like and it just devastates me.  This of course keeps me in a horrible limbo state where I can't even do anything to TRY and get my mind off of any of this.  I can't think of anything I can do that won't make me think about it.  And, if I don't challenge my brain I of course worry I will lose my mental faculties from that. It is just a vicious circle that I don't know how to escape from.  This is complicated by the fact that I have debilitating OCD and I obsessively worry about losing my intelligence already from that.

 

    Agoraphobia- I go days on end without leaving the house and I dread having to go do anything because I feel so embarrassed of myself. I hate interacting with people because I feel so inadequate and sick and it just makes me think of how I used to be.   I can't make decisions when I shop, I am constantly gauging my intelligence and memory when I am out.  The few times I do go out I am just overwhelmed by this feeling of wanting to run away as fast as I can and go curl up in a fetal position in the dark somewhere.  This social anxiety is new for me and very hard on me. Historically I have always enjoyed and looked forward to the company of others and reaped great joy from it.  I hate that I feel like I can't do anything or I am too depressed to even care about doing anything.

 

   I am so devastated at what has become of me and my life.  I, like many others, mourn who I have been in past years, and cry at the horrifying thought that I will never, ever, be myself again, that I have permanently changed my brain and ruined my life, etc.. etc... I try to sleep as much as I can because it is the closest thing to being dead.

 

   I am not convinced that Klonopin is completely to blame for all of this.  I say that because I got on Klonopin in the first place because I was very sick and in a desperate place.  My anxiety, depression, and OCD were out of control and I was already barely functioning when I started Klonopin.  The only reason I started it to begin with was because for some reason that is still unknown and not understood by my doctors, I have become incredibly sensitive to anti-depressants and have not been able to tolerate one since I weaned off of Celexa in 2005 and thus began my descent in to hell.

 

    I am so lost and so hopeless and in so much pain.  Everyday I feel like I can't possibly endure this or live this way for another minute, much less another hour, or day, or month.  Time passes by so agonizingly slow.  One month feels like three, yesterday feels like days ago sometimes... it is so awful.  I haven't been able to work in April of 2007, and I have been out of school since May of 2006 when I had only two semesters left to graduate as a nurse.  I don't pursue hobbies, I feel I contribute nothing to this world and that I am unable to despite my deep desires to do so, and like I explained before every attempt to get my mind off of all of this just reminds me of it all somehow... because I remember how it used to feel to do whatever I am doing, etc.. etc..

 

I have Tinnitus really bad and what I do at night is turn on my box fan in my bedroom on high when I go to sleep and the sound from the fan makes it so I cant hear the ringing in my ears. At least I can have a break from it at nights.

 

Michael

 

   

[[az...]]

Fraidycat,

 

    Thank you for stopping by to check on me.  I wish I had happy news, but I don't.

 

Don't let those thoughts dwell. Seriously, talk to anyone about this, even if you have to call a suicide prevention hotline. I know what you are feeling, I've been there myself, I don't know if you've seen my other post about it, but I essentially had myself committed as 5150. That ranks as one of the lowest times in my life so far, but it was a real eye-opener that no matter how bad I feel, I don't want to go back to that point in my life. I also found myself the most "sane" person in the crazy house, which in a twisted way helped me feel better about how I was doing. Bottom line though is please don't be afraid to discuss these types of thoughts and get help if you need it, no matter how bad you may feel now suicide is not an option.

[[Ki...]]

Hi CritterCuddler 

 

I sent you some PMs. 

[[re...]]

Hi critter,

 

I know you are going through a rough stage right now, we all go through it, just try to see the light that is at the end of the tunnel, the light is there, just be patient & strong.

[[Lo...]]

Hey critter,

Just wondering if you were feeling any better? I know how tormenting our "thought life" can be, but know they are just that.....thoughts. I think most of us, if not all, could say that "things" have crossed our minds in dealing with benzos! I would never have acted on my thoughts, but it does help to express them to others. Glad you feel safe enough here to let us know what was going on in your mind. If they get worse, do please call your dr. or a hotline; talk to someone in person/over the phone. When we are in the middle of something, it's so easy to think that life is ALWAYS going to be this way, but it won't. So many people who are benzo free on here tell how wonderful lthey feel now that they are almost totally recovered. If you need to talk more, we're here to listen....

 

Lori

[[cr...]]

Thank you everyone for the outpouring of concern and support.  I am glad that this forum is a place where I can discuss my darkest thoughts freely without judgment.  Some sites don't allow you to mention the word suicide or talk about it which I think is a tragedy.  Perhaps less people would go through with taking their lives if the feelings they so desperately needed to express were not labeled as taboo.

 

I had a very scary breakdown last night, but I am feeling better today.  I think the current crisis has passed.  I have been dealing with these kinds of feelings for over a year now... it is just sometimes that they become really intense. 

 

[[az...]]

Glad you are feeling better today! 

 

I didn't have a very good night last night either, it was weird and I don't even know how to put it in words other than I felt like crap I guess.

 

I may not have been on (or off) the benzos as long as you, but I know suicidal thoughts and dealing with something for a long time that you wish would just go away. We're always here to talk.

[[Fr...]]

So glad to hear from you!!!! I was worried!  I've not been so hot myself but we will all make it through this!  Big Hugs for you!!!

[[ha...]]

Glad to hear that the storm has passed for now. You are not alone. You are right, sometimes when you can talk and in this case look back at what you say, it can help it pass. I'm thinking of you. I hope the dark cloud stays away. Kel

[[cr...]]

azdamay-

 

You should read this, pgs 125-131. 

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=Uv-A0Gz3CoIC&pg=PA131&lpg=PA131&dq=buspirone+long+term&source=web&ots=T0Qt55Z20j&sig=UFND_Ktk0GL6byGS7DWgwNGeZsY#PPA125,M1

 

It is all about Buspirone(Buspar).  It is often said that people who have taken a benzo will not respond well to Buspar, but this author disputes that claim.  He says this only seems to be the case when a person has very recent experience with a benzo of 1 month or less, and he explains the reasons why this is so. He sites some studies.

 

He also says there is evidence that Buspar can increase the ability to learn new coping skills rather than decrease that ability like benzos do.

 

Overall I found the information from the above link encouraging about Buspar and GAD.

 

Are you working your way up to 30mg? That is considered the "therapeutic dose". 

[[az...]]

BuSpar has very few side effects and is relatively benign, so if you are considering taking it (I can't remember!) it would not likely hurt anything. I'm still at 20mg split over two doses, but I am thinking about asking the doctor if I could go to 3 times a day for 30mg. In my case, I still couldn't say whether it's helping, whether the withdrawal would be worse or better without it, but the only side effects from it I have experienced is a tingling tongue and dizziness for about an hour or so after taking the pill. So I figure if that's the worst it does is some dizziness and a tingly tongue I'm going to keep at it and re-evaluate in a few months.

 

It does, however, work on serotonin, so IIRC caution is advised when using it in combination with other meds ... for example, I am also on Remeron. Theoretically the two are a moderately dangerous combination.

 

Thanks for the link, I read some of it first and will read the rest later. 

[[cr...]]

Buspar isn't going to help with the withdrawal.  Unfortunately there isn't a medicine that has been proven to help with that.  I have seen though (from reading studies) that getting on buspar or an anti-depressant before starting a taper has been shown to produce better outcomes with more people remaining benzo free.  I think one study had people pre-medicated with either buspar or imipramine for 4 weeks. At the follow-ups there were significantly more people still benzo free who had received one of those medications.

 

Anyway, I was just wanting to encourage you to consider that it very well might be a good medication to help with your anxiety disorder instead of a benzodiazepine, because I remember you mentioning that you thought it wouldn't be able to help you much.  The side effects you mentioned seem normal. I remember reading about dizziness and tingling. Yes, I know it is a partial serotonin agonist... but they combine it with anti-depressants all the time.  It is something to be aware of though, because it is possible for there to be problem.  I think it is not very common though.

 

[[Pe...]]

There is no medication that will help with withdrawal. If there was, Benzobuddies wouldn't exist and we'd all be a hell of a lot happier with our situations. However, if you need an alternate AD to work with an underlying disorder, there are a number of options. If you do go on something, try and make it short term by finding a CBT therapist who can teach you how to handle the disorder while stable on a med. Once you stablize, they will work with getting you off and helping you live free. This is the path I am taking and it should work.

 

Buspar is a very decent choice, but remember - ADs can take up to 6 weeks to work! So give it time.

 

I am praying fro you CC. You've got a friend in me!

 

-Pete

[[cr...]]

Thank you Pete.

[[ja...]]

Hi CC,

 

Reading your original post in this thread it sounds like you are really having a hard time. It may feel like you have a million different problems but to me it sounds like it’s your underlying depression that’s making everything seem much worse than it is.  I don’t mean to sound patronising, I understand you are going through a lot – I’m just saying that if you were able to improve your mood then none of the other symptoms would seem quite as bad. You have a strong desire to make yourself better, which is obvious by the fact that you are posting on this forum and all the things you’ve tried.  I think this why you are going to be OK in the end.  The fact that you also managed to taper off and stay off the benzo’s also suggests to me that you are a very strong-willed person.

 

It sounds like you know a lot about brain chemistry from your training as a nurse, research and from your experience of various drugs yourself. Are you sure you don't want to become a neurologist? I’m a bit worried though by the fact that you keep mentioning various supplements and things, it’s like you are looking for a biological solution to “fix” yourself. While this is totally understandable, after all you don’t want to feel the way you do, maybe you should look at some alternatives. Have you tried any other ways tackling your depression (e.g. exercise, talking therapies, meditation etc?).  I know it’s a bit of a cliché to say, “think positive!” etc. but sometimes these things can help. I experienced a period of depression a few years ago and one thing I did was every night write down 5 positive things that had happened to me throughout the day, I also started exercising a lot and made some changes to my life which sorted me out in the end.

 

All the theories of how brain chemistry causes depression are very sketchy. For example, they know that SSRIs increase serotonin production, and that they reduce depression. So from this they infer that depression was caused by a lack of serotonin.  This is a pretty poor argument, it is like saying that a headache is caused by a lack of aspirin. There are also a number of anti-depressant drugs that are effective even though they do not have any effect on serotonin.  This doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t take anti-depressants, just be aware they are not necessarily fixing some kind of deficiency in your brain. 

 

In my view one of the reasons so many people get depressed is down to the strains of modern society, it’s very easy for people to become isolated and get put under all sorts of pressures. I won’t go into too much of a rant here but will just say that I see depression as more of a social than a biological problem. This is a view that is starting to become more dominant (much to the dismay of the drug companies!). Understand that because you are experiencing these things doesn’t mean that there is something fundamentally wrong with your brain or anything like that. People experience emotional distress for a huge number of reasons, anybody could experience depression and anxiety and such like if they were put under certain circumstances.  Obviously in your case, the klonopin withdrawal has made things harder for you – and that’s certainly “biological”, but like you say you experienced problems before you ever took it. 

 

Anyway hope you feel better soon!

 

 

 

 

 

[[cr...]]

I have decided that it is in my best interest to abstain from any support sites related to benzodiazepines, anti-depressants, or tinnitus for 2 months.  This commitment also extends to talking about these subjects via emails as well.  If I have been corresponding with you through email please remember that my sudden disappearance has nothing to do with you!  And furthermore I apologize that we must stop communication abruptly.  Please know though that this lapse of communication will not be forever.

 

I have made this commitment to myself because I have come to realize that I am using sites of this nature to neutralize obsessions that I am having regarding the above subjects. I have also come to believe that this behavior is hindering me instead of helping me.

 

Please know that my decision to abstain from using this site for 2 months is not the result of anything that a member here did or did not do or that a member has said. In fact, I have found the support of members at this site to be wonderful and am very thankful for the contact I have had with all individuals here.

 

You can assist me in this commitment by reminding me of it should I falter and post something. You may also assist me by not encouraging me with any replies if I should falter and post something.

 

I hope that everyone here will support me in my desire. Don't forget about me though! I don't plan on never posting again, but for now I am going to abstain for 2 months.

 

Maybe I will return with good news. 

 

Sincerely,

- michelle <3

[[Lo...]]

Wish you the best, Michelle. Talk to you in 2 months!

 

Lori

[[Je...]]

Mechelle, I understand and we will talk again when you come back. I have had to get away from sites like these before. In fact several medical websites. After awhile you have every symptom that it speaks of and that doesn't help. Good luck on your taper. Much love going your way!

[[Ki...]]

Praying for you CC, and for both of us on those feelings we get. 

 

I understand totally your decision to take a break for 2 months. Looking forward to hearing from you in 2 months. 

 

Love you!