New to BB. Tapering off clonazepam - down from 1 mg to .45 mg

[[Ro...]]

20 minutes ago, [[t...] said:

This is wonderfully helpful. Thank you for your generous response and sharing your thoughts with me. I am very grateful.

One additional question, if I might: im currently taking a quarter of my daily dose in the morning, a quarter in the afternoon, and then half at night. I did this to try to support better sleep, and it was easier to break the tablet this way. I noticed that you had even dosing throughout the day, and lowered your dose evenly across doses when you cut.

My current plan is to only work on reducing my evening dose until it is even with my morning and afternoon dose, and then reduce as evenly as possible across doses. Does that seem reasonable?

Yes, imo it sounds like a reasonable plan.  With its relatively long half-life, Clonazepam is more flexible than some of the other benzos, like Ativan.

[[Ma...]]

1 hour ago, [[t...] said:

So are you now just cutting and holding smaller amounts? What seems to be working for you?

Isnt it strange that one method of tapering can work well for some duration of your taper, then suddenly no longer work? It sounds like flexibility is also a skill needed to be successful in this effort.

I went back to doing cut and holds.  I generally hold for 7-10 days and cut smaller amounts.  I’m going linear now as I’m below 0.2mg and the percentages will keep me in this process indefinitely if I don’t.  In retrospect, a microtaper probably would have been fine if I had built in some holds.  I just feel like, for me, even when symptoms ramp up after a cut, symptoms initially get worse, but they eventually reach some level of stability.  

[[Ct...]]

7 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

I went back to doing cut and holds.  I generally hold for 7-10 days and cut smaller amounts.  I’m going linear now as I’m below 0.2mg and the percentages will keep me in this process indefinitely if I don’t.  In retrospect, a microtaper probably would have been fine if I had built in some holds.  I just feel like, for me, even when symptoms ramp up after a cut, symptoms initially get worse, but they eventually reach some level of stability.  

@[Ma...] In the linear part of your taper (after you got to .2 mg), do you file off X grams per day/week? I would like to learn about this for when I get to this stage in my taper.

[[Os...]]

I wish I would have listened to my inner voice 2 weeks ago when I thought that I should hold for a bit. But I just kept on going (linear microtaper). Trust your symptoms!

Also, yeah, you have to go linear at some point. But be ready to build in holds.

[[or...]]

Metoo @[Ma...], I need to learn "linear" and mainly the difference in that compared to the way I'm doing it now

Hi @[th...], I'm still tapering and holding just once a day with clonazepam.  I wanted to add that my intensity of wd sxs are unpredictable for me.  Sometimes I will hold for 7 days, sometimes twice that, or last one I held for 31 days.  It seems to be the old brain thing for me, I mean how I am with coping with life itself.  Everyday things or unusual events.

Just slow and steady but I give myself room to change up the "amount" I taper.  Right now, I'm curious as to the difference between linear and the type of tapering I'm doing which I'm not sure what anyone would call it.  I just know I am going down in percent of dose and that's always been good enough I guess and is working.  So far for me, if it works don't fix it.  But I do hear people say it can get tougher the lower I get so I'm always open to learning more oregonlady ~ Denise sending hope, encouragement, and love PS I had insomnia for a couple or more months but it has passed w/o changing anything in my routine of tapering.  I eat good and exercise but slept really good again even when I wasn't exercising purposefully, for about the last month 31 days or so.  I get about 8, still surprises me, but I'm getting that much each night, and an hour nap in mid-afternoon.

 

Edited August 24 by [or...]

[[or...]]

10 minutes ago, [[O...] said:

I wish I would have listened to my inner voice 2 weeks ago when I thought that I should hold for a bit. But I just kept on going (linear microtaper). Trust your symptoms!

Also, yeah, you have to go linear at some point. But be ready to build in holds.

This is what is helping me I'm so sure, is I go by my sxs @[Os...] My holds definitely vary, but I went from smaller tapers to 5% now.  I really am making some progress but still able to manage sxs.  I hesitate to change this, but I'll learn about linear in case I actually need to oregonlady

Edited August 24 by [or...]

[[Ma...]]

1 hour ago, [[C...] said:

@[Ma...] In the linear part of your taper (after you got to .2 mg), do you file off X grams per day/week? I would like to learn about this for when I get to this stage in my taper.

Yes, right now I cut .014 mg (drug dose) a week which is .002 mg a day.  That works out to .005g/week “pill weight” on my scale.  

[[th...]]

I think the other thing that I'm genuinely interested in is how everyone manages anxiety as tgey taper. I'm in this position because i was given clonazepam for panic disorder, so I need to learn how to deal with the anxiety in a way that isnt a benzo.

I found trying to get more sleep is helpful, staying hydrated makes a big difference, medidation, talk therapy, and tryibg to reduce stress helps, but isnt doesnt take it away.

I also take 75 mg of Zoloft, which I hope is contributing some positive effect - its just hard to tell while I'm still recovering from a cut that was too big.

Anyone have tips for anxiety during the taper?

[[th...]]

2 hours ago, [[o...] said:

Metoo @[Ma...], I need to learn "linear" and mainly the difference in that compared to the way I'm doing it now

Hi @[th...], I'm still tapering and holding just once a day with clonazepam.  I wanted to add that my intensity of wd sxs are unpredictable for me.  Sometimes I will hold for 7 days, sometimes twice that, or last one I held for 31 days.  It seems to be the old brain thing for me, I mean how I am with coping with life itself.  Everyday things or unusual events.

Just slow and steady but I give myself room to change up the "amount" I taper.  Right now, I'm curious as to the difference between linear and the type of tapering I'm doing which I'm not sure what anyone would call it.  I just know I am going down in percent of dose and that's always been good enough I guess and is working.  So far for me, if it works don't fix it.  But I do hear people say it can get tougher the lower I get so I'm always open to learning more oregonlady ~ Denise sending hope, encouragement, and love PS I had insomnia for a couple or more months but it has passed w/o changing anything in my routine of tapering.  I eat good and exercise but slept really good again even when I wasn't exercising purposefully, for about the last month 31 days or so.  I get about 8, still surprises me, but I'm getting that much each night, and an hour nap in mid-afternoon.

What is your current dose? And you are only talking that dose once per day?

[[Os...]]

2 minutes ago, [[t...] said:

I think the other thing that I'm genuinely interested in is how everyone manages anxiety as tgey taper. I'm in this position because i was given clonazepam for panic disorder, so I need to learn how to deal with the anxiety in a way that isnt a benzo.

I found trying to get more sleep is helpful, staying hydrated makes a big difference, medidation, talk therapy, and tryibg to reduce stress helps, but isnt doesnt take it away.

I also take 75 mg of Zoloft, which I hope is contributing some positive effect - its just hard to tell while I'm still recovering from a cut that was too big.

Anyone have tips for anxiety during the taper?

I didn't take valium for anxiety, but I have a history of it. Here are some things I do for anxiety:

1. Therapy

2. A diet free of sugar, grain, and dairy (hard, but worth it for me, anyway)

3. Supplements (Blissphora, L-Theanine, Glycine, RelaxMAX<---contains GABA-some say don't--helps me though, probiotic). I believe anxiety is a product of a gut imbalance. Solve your gut, solve your brain.

[[Os...]]

2 hours ago, [[o...] said:

This is what is helping me I'm so sure, is I go by my sxs @[Os...] My holds definitely vary, but I went from smaller tapers to 5% now.  I really am making some progress but still able to manage sxs.  I hesitate to change this, but I'll learn about linear in case I actually need to oregonlady

Basically, if you always do a percentage cut, you'll make it pretty far down in a smooth manner (minimal side effects if done slowly enough). But when you get to the really low end, you'll be really extending when you might be nearing your jump. So, if you can stand it, switch to the same mg reduction for the rest of the taper. As I understand it, this should be done a very low dosage. I tried linear too soon. I'm on diazepam, I'm not sure what my next taper strategy will be. But, I know I'll likely switch to linear when I get to 0.25 mg. Maybe even 0.4mg.

[[or...]]

34 minutes ago, [[t...] said:

What is your current dose? And you are only talking that dose once per day?

Yes, one dose in the a.m. and my current dose is .066 g dose weight of 1mg which I believe is 38% of original active ingredient.  I hope that's right as I think I mentioned, number baffle me these days oregonlady ~ denise, I have my History of Taper on my profile you are so welcome to look at a little closer if you like

[[or...]]

37 minutes ago, [[O...] said:

Basically, if you always do a percentage cut, you'll make it pretty far down in a smooth manner (minimal side effects if done slowly enough). But when you get to the really low end, you'll be really extending when you might be nearing your jump. So, if you can stand it, switch to the same mg reduction for the rest of the taper. As I understand it, this should be done a very low dosage. I tried linear too soon. I'm on diazepam, I'm not sure what my next taper strategy will be. But, I know I'll likely switch to linear when I get to 0.25 mg. Maybe even 0.4mg.

So I'm just guessing here, but does going linear mean strictly by weight of dose ?  If that's so, I can do that for sure, use to do that early on, then I got so I wanted to see that percent of active ingredient, just sounded more accurate to leave out the fluff they add in oregonlady ~ Denise.  PS I can see why either smaller percents might work too, but the weight of tablet is so much easier on my brain, because I actual see it on my scale

[[Ma...]]

53 minutes ago, [[t...] said:

Anyone have tips for anxiety during the taper?

Deep breathing with long exhales for 90 seconds.  Distraction with other activities (I cleaned out my garage this morning).  And low dose Propanolol helps with the physical symptoms if I know I’m gonna be in an anxiety provoking situation.  

[[or...]]

On 24/08/2024 at 10:02, [[M...] said:

Deep breathing with long exhales for 90 seconds.  Distraction with other activities (I cleaned out my garage this morning).  And low dose Propanolol helps with the physical symptoms if I know I’m gonna be in an anxiety provoking situation.  

I've been practicing the deep breathing lately and it works!  It seems to relax my muscles, and it's amazing to realize how unrelaxed I get

[[th...]]

I recieved a message back from my doctor that he thinks 10% reductions per month is a solid plan.

He also stated though that I should be able to do 25% reductions every 4-8 weeks.

That seems aggressive being as my last 10% cut left me on the couch for 5 days. He also doesnt seem to have any ideas regarding adjunctive therapys to help manage the withdrawal.

I'm considering L-theanine and magnesium, does anyone have thoughts on those?

[[Ct...]]

56 minutes ago, [[t...] said:

I recieved a message back from my doctor that he thinks 10% reductions per month is a solid plan.

He also stated though that I should be able to do 25% reductions every 4-8 weeks.

That seems aggressive being as my last 10% cut left me on the couch for 5 days. He also doesnt seem to have any ideas regarding adjunctive therapys to help manage the withdrawal.

I'm considering L-theanine and magnesium, does anyone have thoughts on those?

I’m glad your doctor approves of 10% reductions per month; however 25% reductions every 4 to 8 weeks is not advisable imo. As you go lower in dose, you need to be more cautious, especially since you are working and have other responsibilities. I simply told my doctor that I wanted to go slowly, and she is supporting me at my chosen taper rate.

Regarding L-theanine and magnesium, I know others on BB have used them. I hope they stop by to offer advice. You might also try the Search feature to find information.

[[th...]]

Ive decided to resume my taper this week, but really at a symbolic rate. My total pill weight is .160 right now and the plan is to cut .001 on Monday and another on Thursday. If that goes well, then the week following I'll try to cut .003 in a week on monday, wednesday, friday. If i can get up to .004 reduction in pill weight per week, i feel like that would be making good progress, but thats only if my symptoms allow it, and i understand that it may not be sustainable for the entire duration of my taper.

At this point, i dont know what rate of reduction I am able to handle because both cuts so far have been too large and have taken me quite some time to stabilize from.

I am hopeful this is a solid plan that will teach me what my body and mind are capable of. I think I won't know until I try.

I'm also slightly unsure of what it means for me to feel stable, because Ive not felt great for the past couple weeks. The side effects have mostly gone away - i can eat, sleep, go to work. The only thing is that my anxiety is always pretty high. I'm hopeful this is "stable enough". I think I'll learn pretty quickly if I needed to hold longer

[[th...]]

Turns out that L-theanine at 100 mg is not for me. I took it for two days and it just gave me all this nervous energy without any calming effect. In the trash it goes.

I went ahead with my tiny dose reduction and will do another tonight. Everything seems ok so far. Im contemplating taking slightly larger reductions next week or the week after. .002 gram of pill weight twice a week, with days off in between. That would give me .016 of pill weight this month, or 10% of my dose on Sept 1. We'll have to see how it goes.

The worst side effect I have right now is just anxiety. Kind of jittery too. GI issues. Not bad, but it was just a tiny little reduction - a test really. I cant even say for sure those symptoms are from the reduction... could be from anything. We'll see how it goes.

[[Ma...]]

Remember, the effects may not be felt for 7-14 days because of the long half life.  If you start getting worse symptoms, maybe consider spacing out your cuts a little more.  

[[th...]]

4 hours ago, [[M...] said:

Remember, the effects may not be felt for 7-14 days because of the long half life.  If you start getting worse symptoms, maybe consider spacing out your cuts a little more.  

Thanks Matt!

My hope (which at this point is all I can do) is that these reductions are SO small, that they barely register. You make a good point though, which is that I'll have made several dose reductions before I possibly feel the impact of the first reduction.

Im trying to strike the balance between being prepared for bad side effects, and being hopeful that I might be one of the lucky ones that can taper relatively easily. I just wont know until I've been doing it longer. At this point I'm being overly cautious because i just dont want to end up going through days of laying on the couch being miserable. And then another week or two of being so anxious i want to jump out of my skin.

Slow and steady, right?

[[Ma...]]

Yes, it’s all trial and error unfortunately.  And very individual.  

[[or...]]

Cannot agree more on this @[Ma...], from what I've learned about others, and myself of course, about wd sxs/tapering etc.  I'm slowing down my taper of 5%, back down to 3% a month, although, I have been able to taper again sooner in the past.  I've tried the 5%, 3 times now, and it has gotten too rough for me.  I had to stay home a lot with more extreme sxs.

Those are small tapers, and I am thinking you mean grams of dose weight by the .001 @[th...]? But even though they are small, they do seem to "catch up". I agree it's smart to get the doctors opinion, but like in the Ashton Manual, and in Dr. Heather Ashton's video, she says that it's best if the patient can decide their taper as they go, according to their sxs (not a quote, paraphrased).  I will add that just because someone suggests, or recommends a taper for me, it does not mean it will work for me.

I think it's so hard for people, including myself, not to trust in what the doctor says, instead of what my own body is saying.  Some don't have the option to decide for themselves, but if we are lucky, we can go by what we find we can handle, and what may get in the way of our lives (work, family, and activities we love). 

I know I can't avoid wd sxs, but I believe I can have more quality of life if I pay close attention to "how I feel", and not compare myself with others because we are all different, OL ~ denise

 

Edited September 6 by [or...]

[[...]]

How are you guys approaching your doctor to understand you can't tolerate dose reductions ? I thought I found a better Dr but she too is forcing dose reductions when I already can't function after enduring 15 months of absolute hell from an improperly handled taper 

[[th...]]

4 hours ago, [[o...] said:

Cannot agree more on this @[Ma...], from what I've learned about others, and myself of course, about wd sxs/tapering etc.  I'm slowing down my taper of 5%, back down to 3% a month, although, I have been able to taper again sooner in the past.  I've tried the 5%, 3 times now, and it has gotten too rough for me.  I had to stay home a lot with more extreme sxs.

Those are small tapers, and I am thinking you mean grams of dose weight by the .001 @[th...]? But even though they are small, they do seem to "catch up". I agree it's smart to get the doctors opinion, but like in the Ashton Manual, and in Dr. Heather Ashton's video, she says that it's best if the patient can decide their taper as they go, according to their sxs (not a quote, paraphrased).  I will add that just because someone suggests, or recommends a taper for me, it does not mean it will work for me.

I think it's so hard for people, including myself, not to trust in what the doctor says, instead of what my own body is saying.  Some don't have the option to decide for themselves, but if we are lucky, we can go by what we find we can handle, and what may get in the way of our lives (work, family, and activities we love). 

I know I can't avoid wd sxs, but I believe I can have more quality of life if I pay close attention to "how I feel", and not compare myself with others because we are all different, OL ~ denise

Hey @[or...]!

Im sorry to hear that your withdrawal symptoms have become more difficult. Already Ive read so many stories of folks who find it harder to reduce their dose the lower you go. Obviously, you are listening to what your body is telling you and making adjustments. Im trying to learn to just radically accept the position I'm in with this "medication" and be ok with the taper taking however long it needs to take.

Yes, when i reference a .001 reduction, Im talking about pill weight. The average pill weighs .1745g  and my current dose is .158g however that math works out. I just keep filing pill fragments 😁