Last bit of taper question

[[On...]]

Firstly, I’m a new member and this is my first post.  Secondly, I just wanted to say what a wonderful site this is.  I’ve been reading posts from the various forums on here for the past few months and the information I’ve gleaned has been invaluable.  I was able to treat my benzo belly by utilizing a gluten/dairy free diet and eating probiotic yogurt twice a day.  I learned that my burning skin, tinnitus, muscle spasms, and other symptoms that occurred  every time I tried to rapidly taper per my psychiatrist’s recommendation (2 failed attempts by basically cutting doses in half every few days from 1.5 Klonopin) were common withdrawal symptoms even though my psychiatrist had never heard of these things happening while coming off of benzos.  And I learned how to taper appropriately based on my symptoms (I’ve been fortunate in that my taper rate has been much faster than the Ashton manual recommendations and I’m doing pretty well).  I’ve gone from 1.5 mg of Klonopin since May to 3 mg of Valium today in August so in about 3 months time.  I have 2 mg tablets left and was wondering how to complete the rest of the taper.  I’ve been doing cut and holds where I take Valium twice daily.  So my plan was to take 3 mg of Valium for a week then cut to 2 mg of Valium and hold there for anywhere from 2-4 weeks to let my brain catch up with any possible cumulative cut symptoms.  Then cut to 1 mg x 2 weeks, 0.5 mg x 2 weeks, then be off.  I also wanted me input on taking the 0.5 mg dose once daily because it’s already a quarter of the 2 mg pill and I’m not sure how to break it up any smaller for twice daily dosing.  Does this sound appropriate?  Appreciate any advice.

[[...]]

Hi, @[On...], and welcome to BenzoBuddies! Thanks for your good words and my sincere congratulations on doing so well! 

I'm not very good at tapering since my own taper was extremely trying, but i think your plan might really need some correcting. It's usually done in a slower way  when you're approaching the final part. Every next cut should be smaller than the previous one. I hope more knowledgeable members will step in and give their thoughts more to the point. Good luck to you!) 

[[Co...]]

Hello @[On...]

Congratulations on managing your taper so well.

Your taper plan seems reasonable to me. I would only suggest that you consider making 0.5mg reductions from now on. Smaller, more frequent reductions to dose are generally better tolerated than larger, less frequent reductions, even if the overall taper rate is similar. There is nothing to lose by this approach; only potential benefits.

[[Ma...]]

How are your symptoms? And how long have you been on Clonazepam?  I know a lot of people will say you have tapered too quickly, but the truth of the matter is that many people can taper these drugs a lot faster than others.  The people on this site, myself included, are generally here because they can’t go too fast so it’s somewhat of a self selecting group of people.  If you aren’t having a whole lot of symptoms after that fast a taper down to 3 mg of Valium, you may be one of those people who can go fast.  I agree with what @[Co...] said though and would make smaller 0.5 mg reductions from here on out.  If you’re doing ok you can cut every 2 weeks or so, but just base it on how you’re feeling.  

Edited August 16 by [Ma...]

[[On...]]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.  My symptoms have been very tolerable.   Burning skin, brain fog, headache, tiredness are some of the common symptoms I have.  Fortunately, I’ve been able to maintain work, exercise, and sleep decently well (around 4 hours a night average).  I was originally prescribed Klonopin in November 2023 for insomnia after I had a very bad reaction to a medication called Arimidex.  I’m on prescription hrt and took the Arimidex because my estrogen levels were elevated.  Arimidex lowers estrogen but my body had a terrible reaction to it.  It caused depression, anxiety, insomnia, and many other physical symptoms.  I couldn’t sleep to save my life.  I went 4 days straight awake and started having hallucinations so I was hospitalized and given Klonopin for the first time.  Slept like a baby.   But of course no one told me the potential physical dependence issues one can develop by taking it.  I’ll decrease to 0.5 mg cuts.  Does anyone think the hold at 2 mg is necessary?  Also, any suggestions on jumping at 0.5 mg?  Thanks again.

[[Ma...]]

0.5 is an appropriate jump dose.  I suspect since you are still very functional after a pretty quick taper, you will do well the rest of the way.  Cutting to 2mg and holding for a couple weeks is reasonable.  Just listen to your body.  

[[vo...]]

@[Ma...]@[On...]  Hi. I'm trying to help another member who is considering switching from Xanax to Klonopin and then tapering off of the Klonopin. Given your experience with K, what is your opinion of them doing this to avoid the w/d symptoms from Xanax? I only have experience with Xanax, Clonazepam and Ambien My thoughts are that K will come with it's own set of problems when they eventually taper off of that med. Their post (Billingsly24) is in the tapering section if you would like to offer any suggestions...Ty!

Edited August 17 by [vo...]

[[or...]]

On 15/08/2024 at 21:18, [[O...] said:

And I learned how to taper appropriately based on my symptoms

right here is the ticket!!  I would continue doing your taper this way.  It's exactly how I do mine, and I have maintained a lot of quality of life, as I wanted that now, as I taper, not wait til I'm done tapering.  I want to live my life as I go, but you are also right on when you say the only way out is thru

I think you are doing wonderfully, and I just encourage you to taper what you decide to taper, and see how you react to it.  If your sxs are increased, then hold longer, and taper a bit less next taper.  I believe in having some sort of plan, but giving myself permission to change it if it's getting too rough. 

By the same token, I can take a little larger taper if I am confident in managing my sxs.  I use a jewelry scale and single-edge razor to shave off my doses,  oregonlady, and so happy you've found BB, you are doing great!!

[[On...]]

Thanks for all the wonderful advice and support.  Voluntas, in my very humble opinion and from what I’ve read regarding others’ experiences on this website, it seems that crossing over to a longer acting benzo. Is what most people suggest.  I’ve never taken Xanax but I’ve read that it’s very difficult to taper from due to its short half-life and potency (1 mg equals approx. 20 mg Valium).  Klonopin has a much longer half-life than Xanax and from my knowledge I believe they’re equipotent.  So in theory there should be less interdose withdrawals using Klonopin.  I opted to switch from Klonopin to Valium because Valium has an even longer half-life, it’s much weaker than Klonopin, and the available dosages allow me to taper without using a scale.  It’s also what Dr. Ashton used to taper her patients in her clinic and she seemed to be the gold-standard of benzo. Deprescribing in a safe manner.  I’ve also heard Klonopin can be very difficult to taper from, though others were able to do it successfully.  So it’s very individual.  I felt my cuts more when I was on Klonopin than when I make cuts on Valium.  But that’s me.  There are much more knowledgeable people on this website but that’s my 2 cents.  Also, unfortunately there’s no magic way I’ve found around this mess.  Eating healthy, exercising (especially cardio) as tolerated, and getting as much sleep as you can are about all you can do to help your brain heal.  And using a symptom based taper of course.  Whatever your friend decides, tell him not to quit cold turkey.  I’m sure it’s well known but had to mention it.  

[[Os...]]

23 hours ago, [[o...] said:

By the same token, I can take a little larger taper if I am confident in managing my sxs.  I use a jewelry scale and single-edge razor to shave off my doses,  oregonlady, and so happy you've found BB, you are doing great!!

Have you considered a micro taper? My symptoms, especially the emotional ones really improved when I switched. But, also, if you're currently doing ok, follow your symptoms. I think slowing down is a good option now, as the last 2 mg down may be a little more challenging. The small dosage changes have a larger gaba receptor impact, the lower the dosage becomes, so slowing down can help alleviate that. There are some that do a hyperbolic taper at the end, slowing towards the jump. I'm doing linear so far, currently at 0.8mg once a day at night, and I'm doing ok.

Congrats on your progress so far! You're doing remarkable well.

[[or...]]

1 hour ago, [[O...] said:

Have you considered a micro taper? My symptoms, especially the emotional ones really improved when I switched. But, also, if you're currently doing ok, follow your symptoms. I think slowing down is a good option now, as the last 2 mg down may be a little more challenging. The small dosage changes have a larger gaba receptor impact, the lower the dosage becomes, so slowing down can help alleviate that. There are some that do a hyperbolic taper at the end, slowing towards the jump. I'm doing linear so far, currently at 0.8mg once a day at night, and I'm doing ok.

Congrats on your progress so far! You're doing remarkable well.

Hi Oswald, I am guessing you meant this for "maybe" @[On...], since I've been doing a micro taper for some time now.  I will bring it to the their attention   I agree on what you shared though as I think it is the best way, it's worked so well for me.  Although I am getting close to the end, I'm not there yet oregonlady

[[Os...]]

Oh yes, sorry, I was quoting you, but I forgot to tag @[On...]. Thanks! And congrats to you for nearing the end. I look forward to hearing how your end goes.

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[On...], did you have a question?

[[On...]]

 

I was hoping you could help me with the last 1mg of Valium. I debated about switching to a daily taper but for now I’m going to continue to cut .25 every 1-2 weeks, depending on how bad I feel, 1 to .75 to .5 to .25, and jump after 1 week on .25.  I bought a scale and will make sure what I’m taking is accurate.  I don’t know if I should be dosing twice daily till I jump or try to consolidate the dose to once daily.  I’m having inter dose withdrawals when I’ve tried to take the whole dose once daily but I don’t know how I’ll split .25 in half.  Any advice is appreciated. I’ve read nearly all the Valium 3.2.1 thread but I don’t recall any specifics on tapering info below 1 mg.  I’m just scared that I’ve tapered from 1.5 mg Klonopin since May (projected end of taper around 5 months of tapering) which is very fast comparatively and since crossing over to Valium I feel crummy but functional and I don’t want these cumulative cuts to catch up to me.  I felt my Klonopin cuts at day 7, they lasted for around 3 days, and I’d cut on day 14.  With Valium I haven’t felt bad at a certain day after making a cut if that makes since.  Also, thanks for the help from those who’ve posted, especially Pamster and OswaldMontecristo.  

 

[[Pa...]]

Hey @[On...], thank you for letting us know when you felt the Klonopin cut, I'm always curious to know, 7 days is a long time, I typically see members mention feeling it in 2-5 days.  Its interesting you can't nail down when the Valium leaves, but given it took so long to feel the Klonopin reduction, I would imagine its quite awhile.  

I believe that using your symptoms to guide the last of your taper is a good idea, especially since you're a bit nervous about this part.  Its really common for members to feel anxious when they get near the end but what I've noticed is, your taper thus far will be your taper in the end.  What I mean is, you've remained functional, you've pretty much learned what to expect and I don't see that changing.  Yes, once you jump off the medication, there can be some intensity to the symptoms, we call this the acute stage but its nothing you haven't experienced before, so no need to fear.

I agree that keeping the same taper method is a good idea, and since you have a scale to weigh your dose, you don't have to worry about your tablet being too small to work with.  And as for the number of times you're dosing, stick with what's worked for you so far, they all have to go eventually so just let it happen naturally.  

Would you like some help with how to measure your dose, I'm not good with that stuff but there are some really smart folks here who can help.

 

[[Ch...]]

27 minutes ago, [[O...] said:

I bought a scale and will make sure what I’m taking is accurate.

Hi. I tapered 60mg Valium, so I am familiar with it. I want to assure you that Valium, with its long half-life, is exceedingly forgiving of imprecision. That is to say, you really don't have to use a scale to measure, because with Valium you do not have to be that precise. When I tapered and broke tablets, I handled any imprecision in one dose just by using those same broken tablets in the next dose(s). I agree that you should continue as you have been, and you can safely stop at .5mg. You're almost there. Good job!

[[Ma...]]

12 hours ago, [[P...] said:

Its really common for members to feel anxious when they get near the end but what I've noticed is, your taper thus far will be your taper in the end.  What I mean is, you've remained functional, you've pretty much learned what to expect and I don't see that changing.

I needed to hear this today.  I feel functional and down to .16 Clonazepam but sometimes start ruminating about when the bottom is going to drop out.  

@[On...] your taper has been done reasonably considering the time you were on the drug.  Being functional is the biggest proof of that.  Your plan of cutting .25 u til you’re off sounds very safe.  You are already in the safe zone for jumping so I suspect you’ll have no significant increase in symptoms by taking it slowly down to zero.  Best…

[[or...]]

12 hours ago, [[P...] said:

Hey @[On...], thank you for letting us know when you felt the Klonopin cut, I'm always curious to know, 7 days is a long time, I typically see members mention feeling it in 2-5 days.  Its interesting you can't nail down when the Valium leaves, but given it took so long to feel the Klonopin reduction, I would imagine its quite awhile.  

I believe that using your symptoms to guide the last of your taper is a good idea, especially since you're a bit nervous about this part.  Its really common for members to feel anxious when they get near the end but what I've noticed is, your taper thus far will be your taper in the end.  What I mean is, you've remained functional, you've pretty much learned what to expect and I don't see that changing.  Yes, once you jump off the medication, there can be some intensity to the symptoms, we call this the acute stage but its nothing you haven't experienced before, so no need to fear.

I agree that keeping the same taper method is a good idea, and since you have a scale to weigh your dose, you don't have to worry about your tablet being too small to work with.  And as for the number of times you're dosing, stick with what's worked for you so far, they all have to go eventually so just let it happen naturally.  

Would you like some help with how to measure your dose, I'm not good with that stuff but there are some really smart folks here who can help.

I feel mine will remain the same.  It's hard to say until I get there, I still have several months to go and the way I handle a taper can change up a little, or a lot, even on same, exact amount. Life can get in the way for me and life is going to go on after I jump.  I'm hoping to be givin back the coping skills I had before all this.

Listening to how I feel has been my "true North" for sure, best taper-guide of all for me

[[je...]]

17 hours ago, [[P...] said:

Its really common for members to feel anxious when they get near the end but what I've noticed is, your taper thus far will be your taper in the end.  What I mean is, you've remained functional, you've pretty much learned what to expect and I don't see that changing. 

I just want to reiterate this. Getting to the jumping point can psychologically be very difficult if you’ve tapered for a long period. My taper was okay and I was doing fairly well before jumping but even making the decision to jump was hard. Then when I jumped I was stressed out thinking what have I done? Everything had been going functional and okay and now I’m waiting for acute to hit and I’m going to suffer immensely. I was completely stressed out for a month but it never happened. It didn’t get worse. If things have been manageable and steady for 2-3 months before jumping it will most likely stay the same after jumping. 

[[On...]]

Thanks again to all for the support and education.  I think I’ll be good accurately measuring even the low doses Pamster so no help is necessary there.  This has just been such a wild ride and I don’t want to “fly off the tracks” so to speak at the very end.  Even though I have symptoms, (skin burning, tinnitus, eye floaters, headaches, insomnia, thoughts of never getting back to who I was before this mess) they’ve been tolerable.  They suck, but they’re tolerable.  I thank this website and for its members for giving me the knowledge that these symptoms are all a part of benzo withdrawal which is the only reason that these symptoms ARE tolerable.  If not for all of you and the countless others on here who I’ve read about I would have thought I’d have contracted any number of terrible diseases or even that committing myself to the local psych. hospital could help, the latter most certainly would have led to poly-drugging and further cns destabilization.  So thanks to you all again.  I’m not out of the woods yet but without you all I wouldn’t have even known which path to use to travel.  I’ll post on my progress for anyone interested.

[[Pa...]]

Please do keep us posted @[On...], and thank you for your kind words, I'm grateful for this site, it kept me from thinking the worst too.  

[[Os...]]

@[On...] If you do it slow enough, which it seems you are, your symptoms can continue to be your guide. I will say, I have found it a bit difficult to get precise at low levels of valium, with a jewelers scale. But, as @[Ch...] says, it's pretty forgiving, given the halflife in your system (days/weeks).

It's good to hear from some of you that a slow taper can make the jump a non-event. That gives me hope. Hang in there, everyone.

[[On...]]

I’m at .75 mg of Valium after holding for 2 weeks at 1 mg.  I’ve noticed an uptick in headaches and nausea as well as a general feeling of overall discomfort, almost like a mild case of the flu if that makes sense.  Exercise has helped me tremendously.  I almost feel like my old self when I work up a sweat.  I don’t know if it’s because of endorphin release, glutamate and gaba being more in balance, bdnf release, or distraction.  Either way I guess it doesn’t really matter as long as it helps, right?  The plan is still to cut .25 and hold for a week each time until I get down to .25 which I plan on jumping from.  Hope my fellow buddies are doing ok.  

[[Pa...]]

Wonderful progress @[On...], and I'm glad to hear exercise works for you, so many can't tolerate it.  

 

[[On...]]

.5 and counting today…  Holding for 1 week here and on to my last dose of .25 for a week and jumping.  Insomnia ramping up as well as skin burning but otherwise my symptoms have improved.  Keep it up everyone.  We’ve got this.