Akathisia from mirtazapine

[[jo...]]

I have been reading that akathisia is eliminated after withdrawl from the drug, although most of what I have read is concerning AP's. I have it from Mirtazipine and was wondering if it is a case of getting off and then it will subside. Can it improve whilst still on the drug. I'm on 3.25 and want to get off asap but feeling the cuts I've been making. And is there any difference from people who develop akathisia when on the drug and people who develop it off the drug.

Edited August 12 by [jo...]

[[Ho...]]

Hi @[jo...], I've been tapering mirt and am down to 0.2 mg. I get akathisia for a bit, usually a couple of days, and it subsides. I believe it's a withdrawal side effect.

I jumped from clonazepam 22 months ago. I started weaning mirtazepine soon after; I went from 15 mg to 7.5 mg, and then a few months later just dropped to 3.75 mg. At that point I went slower.

The reason I went slower is because I began to slowly recognize that the mirtazepine cuts made things worse. You know how it is when you are struggling with recovering from jumping your benzo; everything is off and you feel like a horror show. That's why it was so hard for me to understand the mirt was hard to wean.

I was feeling a lot better in some ways, especially when I held my mirt cuts. Still, I was determined to get off mirt so I made a 10% cut nine days after a 10% cut, thinking I'd be okay in a couple of days, but my body's reaction to the cut was very uncomfortable. 😳 My mind! It slammed me with devastating thoughts and I just couldn't relax. I just joined a mirt Facebook group. They helped.

We're all different. I'm so low on mirt I would have thought dropping that little bit would be almost nothing, but it was horrendous. So I'm taking the advice I got on the Facebook mirt page, and that is to hold until you feel better. Even if it's months. I hope it's not! It's been about 11 days but my mind is still not okay. 

So I guess what I want you to consider is that holding your cuts will give your body a chance to stabilize and recover. Cuts should probably come only when we're in a really good place. You might need to slow down your taper schedule instead of hastening it. Apparently mirt is one of the rare ADs that hits a ton of receptors plus it has a huge histamine effect. It's a powerhouse and can be very hard for some to wean. Who knew? I didn't!

Just some things to think about!

Warmly,

HCHC

[[Bo...]]

All what HCHC said!!!

it can be a side effect and a withdrawal effect of mirt so if people taper too fast they get it where some get it going on the med. 

im friends with a few people on it who have horror show aka like myself and we’ve improved slowing things down taper wise. Its unfortunate bc I fidmt know 4 weeks of 7,5mg use would turn into 2yr taper but such is the way it is with mirt. Im down to 5.3mg and right now averaging .1mg over 10 days so .01mg drop every night. I’m more functional than I have been and aka def dialed down a lot, but I’ve got lots of other side effects from it that make daily life very difficult. Frustrating bc a year off K this month and know I’d be doing so much better not on this crap…. But again there is no fast way out of this once one realizes they are the unlucky 50% who have a hard time tapering (stats from mirt researchers).

hopefully slowing things down now as it seems like you’re committing to long taper will be beneficial and you can gain functionality back and have the aka start to calm…. Hoping for the best for you! 

[[jo...]]

On 13/08/2024 at 19:23, [[B...] said:

All what HCHC said!!!

it can be a side effect and a withdrawal effect of mirt so if people taper too fast they get it where some get it going on the med. 

im friends with a few people on it who have horror show aka like myself and we’ve improved slowing things down taper wise. Its unfortunate bc I fidmt know 4 weeks of 7,5mg use would turn into 2yr taper but such is the way it is with mirt. Im down to 5.3mg and right now averaging .1mg over 10 days so .01mg drop every night. I’m more functional than I have been and aka def dialed down a lot, but I’ve got lots of other side effects from it that make daily life very difficult. Frustrating bc a year off K this month and know I’d be doing so much better not on this crap…. But again there is no fast way out of this once one realizes they are the unlucky 50% who have a hard time tapering (stats from mirt researchers).

hopefully slowing things down now as it seems like you’re committing to long taper will be beneficial and you can gain functionality back and have the aka start to calm…. Hoping for the best for you! 

Hi @[Bo...] and @[Ho...] I developed the symptoms going onto the drug and different symptoms when reducing it. I dont think my provider will support a slow taper so I'm worried. I might have to come off quickly. If I developed it as a side effect then should it go once out of my system?

[[Ho...]]

Hi @[jo...], 

Conventional half-life wisdom says yes it will be out of your system. Your symptoms bear an inverse correlation to how much drug is in your system. You will be much, much worse unless you are one of the rare lucky ones, but it sounds like you're not. Apparently mirt is known for causing akathisia when tapering goes too fast, so if I were you I'd do whatever it takes to get more mirt from your doctor. 

I joined a Facebook mirt group and although there's not much emotional support, there's a whole lot of information. I hated what I read because I wanted to just stop taking this stuff so badly. But I know now that tapering too fast backfires. I'm already tapering by tiny increments.  I keep hearing go slow, go slow, go slow. Reduce your harm. 

This is the absolute best YouTube video on tapering mirt. I've watched it more than once because I really needed to understand what the heck is going on. Dr. Horowitz explains, in this video, why low doses of mirt are harder to taper than higher doses. I had to watch that section over and over, but I think I've got it now!

I have different symptoms tapering my mirt than I did going on it, too. Now, after years of all this recovery work, and trying so, so hard, I don't have as much left in the tank. Recently I tapered the mirt too quickly and honestly, I thought I was losing my mind. I'm still clawing my way back. It was a tough lesson to learn and I don't want you to suffer the way I have. And I was only dropping .025 mg every 8 days. I'm currently on .2 mg.

Things for you to think about!!! Your doctor should listen to you. You could purchase the Maudsley deprescribing protocol and show it to him/her. It's compelling.

Hugs,

HCHC

[[jo...]]

29 minutes ago, [[H...] said:

Hi @[jo...], 

Conventional half-life wisdom says yes it will be out of your system. Your symptoms bear an inverse correlation to how much drug is in your system. You will be much, much worse unless you are one of the rare lucky ones, but it sounds like you're not. Apparently mirt is known for causing akathisia when tapering goes too fast, so if I were you I'd do whatever it takes to get more mirt from your doctor. 

I joined a Facebook mirt group and although there's not much emotional support, there's a whole lot of information. I hated what I read because I wanted to just stop taking this stuff so badly. But I know now that tapering too fast backfires. I'm already tapering by tiny increments.  I keep hearing go slow, go slow, go slow. Reduce your harm. 

This is the absolute best YouTube video on tapering mirt. I've watched it more than once because I really needed to understand what the heck is going on. Dr. Horowitz explains, in this video, why low doses of mirt are harder to taper than higher doses. I had to watch that section over and over, but I think I've got it now!

I have different symptoms tapering my mirt than I did going on it, too. Now, after years of all this recovery work, and trying so, so hard, I don't have as much left in the tank. Recently I tapered the mirt too quickly and honestly, I thought I was losing my mind. I'm still clawing my way back. It was a tough lesson to learn and I don't want you to suffer the way I have. And I was only dropping .025 mg every 8 days. I'm currently on .2 mg.

Things for you to think about!!! Your doctor should listen to you. You could purchase the Maudsley deprescribing protocol and show it to him/her. It's compelling.

Hugs,

HCHC

Thanks @[Ho...] I am going to get a copy. My provider seems like he's cutting me off though so I'm worried.

[[jo...]]

38 minutes ago, [[H...] said:

Hi @[jo...], 

Conventional half-life wisdom says yes it will be out of your system. Your symptoms bear an inverse correlation to how much drug is in your system. You will be much, much worse unless you are one of the rare lucky ones, but it sounds like you're not. Apparently mirt is known for causing akathisia when tapering goes too fast, so if I were you I'd do whatever it takes to get more mirt from your doctor. 

I joined a Facebook mirt group and although there's not much emotional support, there's a whole lot of information. I hated what I read because I wanted to just stop taking this stuff so badly. But I know now that tapering too fast backfires. I'm already tapering by tiny increments.  I keep hearing go slow, go slow, go slow. Reduce your harm. 

This is the absolute best YouTube video on tapering mirt. I've watched it more than once because I really needed to understand what the heck is going on. Dr. Horowitz explains, in this video, why low doses of mirt are harder to taper than higher doses. I had to watch that section over and over, but I think I've got it now!

I have different symptoms tapering my mirt than I did going on it, too. Now, after years of all this recovery work, and trying so, so hard, I don't have as much left in the tank. Recently I tapered the mirt too quickly and honestly, I thought I was losing my mind. I'm still clawing my way back. It was a tough lesson to learn and I don't want you to suffer the way I have. And I was only dropping .025 mg every 8 days. I'm currently on .2 mg.

Things for you to think about!!! Your doctor should listen to you. You could purchase the Maudsley deprescribing protocol and show it to him/her. It's compelling.

Hugs,

HCHC

How long were you on mirt?

[[Ho...]]

Hi! I was on mirt (15 mg) for 4-6 months. It's so hard to remember; those days were such a blur! I started cutting  down from 15 mg to 7.5 mg and didn't notice much. A few weeks later I went to 3.5 mg and again, not a huge impact. That's when I started really feeling the cuts.

It was always confusing for me. I'd cut the mirt and when I felt badly, I thought it was a wave from the benzo. So I'd hold for months sometimes. There were so many times I started feeling really good! I thought I was in a window. Then I'd have a wave and it was always muddled; was this a wave from benzo or mirt? 

In hindsight I can see more clearly that the mirt cuts were problematic. Now, at this point they are downright killer, so I'm slowing things and taking minuscule cuts because there is no reason not to. I don't like the suffering it brings on. At all.

I have the same fears about my doc giving me renewed prescriptions. I did a LOT of arm twisting in the nicest way. I can't tell you how many calls I had to make. Finally had a zoom with the doctor and she agreed to continue giving me prescriptions even though the pharmacist she spoke with said my dose was 'smaller than the dose they give cats'! It's not like it's a controlled substance or dangerous. There's no medical reason in their lexicon. 

If you told her you needed to stay on it, she'd write the script with no problem. If that's all you can get her to do, get the script and make your own liquid. The Facebook website shows you exactly how to do it. They even use maple syrup in some formulas! You can make your own. If you can make cookies, you can make liquid mirt.

Anyway, you can do this!!

Hugs,

HCHC

[[jo...]]

I appreciate that doing a slow taper is the best option but that may not be an option for me now. I'm on 3.75 mg and dont have many pills left. I think i'm in big trouble. What level of pain am I in for? tbh I dont think I could take a slow taper anyway with my symptoms being so bad.

[[Ca...]]

19 hours ago, [[j...] said:

I appreciate that doing a slow taper is the best option but that may not be an option for me now. I'm on 3.75 mg and dont have many pills left. I think i'm in big trouble. What level of pain am I in for? tbh I dont think I could take a slow taper anyway with my symptoms being so bad.

I had severe akasthisia from all the meds that were tried. It first started with severe paradoxical reaction to paxil that was tried for 10 days in low dose. It caused lingering akasthisia and all the other meds that were tried to manage the lingering akasthisia caused severe paradoxical reactions with panic and agitation and depression in me as well. Klonopin was the last option that was tried. In my despair I took it for 5 months in different dosages. It never really helped, sometimes seemed to definately worsen it especially in higher dosages. In me it was definately not a withdrawal or tolerance withdrawal symptom. Somewhen I knew despite what all those doctors claimed it was the meds making me sick not mental illness or agitateddepression! So I went to Detox because I couldn't have handeled a slow reasonable taper as well. To severe paradoxical reactions and the akasthisia was definately caused by it. It immediately stopped once all the stuff was out of my System. Now I suffer from BIND and as super super bad as it is it is better than suffering from all those paradoxical reactions and akasthisia on the meds. For me getting off ASAP was the absolute right decision.

Edited August 25 by [Ca...]

[[jo...]]

1 hour ago, [[C...] said:

I had severe akasthisia from all the meds that were tried. It first started with severe paradoxical reaction to paxil that was tried for 10 days in low dose. It caused lingering akasthisia and all the other meds that were tried to manage the lingering akasthisia caused severe paradoxical reactions with panic and agitation and depression in me as well. Klonopin was the last option that was tried. In my despair I took it for 5 months in different dosages. It never really helped, sometimes seemed to definately worsen it especially in higher dosages. In me it was definately not a withdrawal or tolerance withdrawal symptom. Somewhen I knew despite what all those doctors claimed it was the meds making me sick not mental illness or agitateddepression! So I went to Detox because I couldn't have handeled a slow reasonable taper as well. To severe paradoxical reactions and the akasthisia was definately caused by it. It immediately stopped once all the stuff was out of my System. Now I suffer from BIND and as super super bad as it is it is better than suffering from all those paradoxical reactions and akasthisia on the meds. For me getting off ASAP was the absolute right decision.

I'm sorry to here you've had such a hard time @[Ca...] So you think that because I developed a symptom on the drug that it should go away when off? Thanks.

[[Ca...]]

39 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

I'm sorry to here you've had such a hard time @[Ca...] So you think that because I developed a symptom on the drug that it should go away when off? Thanks.

Yes, sooner or later it will go away once you're off. If it's a side effect or paradoxical reaction it will disappear once the stuff is out of your system.

 

If it's withdrawal it will go away sooner or later as well. But it will go somewhen. I personally strongly believe we can only heal, especially with akasthisia- once we are off of  everything (probably the best!) or at  least the offending drug. 

Edited August 25 by [Ca...]

[[jo...]]

Yeah I think you might be right. Mabey a faster taper wouldn't be a bad thing in the long run. I may not have any choice anyway.

[[Ca...]]

7 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Yeah I think you might be right. Mabey a faster taper wouldn't be a bad thing in the long run. I may not have any choice anyway.

Yes, for some of us -in some rare cases like me and maybe you- it may be the better option. A slow taper normally is always the better choice in most cases(!)... but not with severe paradoxical reactions and if side effects could be worse than the actual withdrawal. Akasthisia is definately the worst torture someone can go through. Like being electricuted and tortured alive. We had other members/one other member who had similiar problems with APs after benzo withdrawal. Maybe they chim in here.

Edited August 25 by [Ca...]

[[jo...]]

1 minute ago, [[C...] said:

Yes, for some of us -in some rare cases like me and maybe you- it could be the better option. A slow taper normally is the better choice in most cases(!)... but not with severe paradoxical reactions and if side effects could be worse than the actual withdrawal. Akasthisia is the worst torture someone can go through. Like being electricuted and tortured alive. We had other members/one other member who had similiar problems with APs after benzo withdrawal. Maybe they chim in here.

I think in my case it was a reaction to going onto the med. Would that class as paridoxical.

[[Ca...]]

7 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

I think in my case it was a reaction to going onto the med. Would that class as paridoxical.

Or maybe just side effect. Akathisia is a common side effect and a very very dangerous side effect of Antipsychotics (and also Antidepressants and Anti Nausea drugs and Lyrica)

 

A paradoxical reaction is something like agitation and panic and anxiety or depression in tranquilizers or Antidepressants...  though akasthisia pretty much feels the same! So yeah, it's also a pretty much paradoxical side effect. 

Edited August 25 by [Ca...]

[[PE...]]

43 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

Yes, sooner or later it will go away once you're off. If it's a side effect or paradoxical reaction it will disappear once the stuff is out of your system.

If it's withdrawal it will go away sooner or later as well. But it will go somewhen. I personally strongly believe we can only heal, especially with akasthisia- once we are off of  everything (probably the best!) or at  least the offending drug. 

My akathasia went away (benzo wd) when i started quetiapine. So it seems like it both cause and help akathasia..weird drug.

[[jo...]]

I haven't experienced electrical feelings yet. I hope I dont. For me it's just a horrible agitated feeling in my muscles etc that I can't get rid of even if I move around.

But I still move around and pace a lot. Then there's the frame of mind it puts you in. I've never experienced anythin worse and wouldn't wish it on anyone.

It can last day and night as well. I do get breaks from it. If I haven't slept well it seems to lessen it for some reason.

[[Ho...]]

@[jo...] please let us know how things go! I remember rebecca29 had akathasia from a medication and things got better once off.  Things are getting down to the wire for you. Maybe your doc will give you a script that you can keep in your back pocket if things go too far south? 

I think you have to try to stop it if it's giving you akathisia. I think I'd stop. 

I'm very glad to read you do get some breaks from it, though!

HCHC

[[Fa...]]

16 hours ago, [[j...] said:

If I haven't slept well it seems to lessen it for some reason.

This is quite common.  I noticed the same.  

[[Bo...]]

Can you tell your Dr you’ve changed your mind and decided to stay on the med (not really but get him/her to prescribe it still)? I know many people tell their dr for this very reason , that they’ll be cut off too quick so they tell them they’re staying on bc ‘too much to come off and want to stay on for now and it’s working ok’. It’s how they hero getting the prescription to taper both benzos and ADsas well as other psychotropic meds. 

[[jo...]]

I think I need to stop. I can't really handle the way things are now. It's to much. 

[[jo...]]

11 hours ago, [[H...] said:

@[jo...] please let us know how things go! I remember rebecca29 had akathasia from a medication and things got better once off.  Things are getting down to the wire for you. Maybe your doc will give you a script that you can keep in your back pocket if things go too far south? 

I think you have to try to stop it if it's giving you akathisia. I think I'd stop. 

I'm very glad to read you do get some breaks from it, though!

HCHC

How should I stop though? Should I just cut it off?

[[jo...]]

@[Re...]

11 hours ago, [[H...] said:

@[jo...] please let us know how things go! I remember rebecca29 had akathasia from a medication and things got better once off.  Things are getting down to the wire for you. Maybe your doc will give you a script that you can keep in your back pocket if things go too far south? 

I think you have to try to stop it if it's giving you akathisia. I think I'd stop. 

I'm very glad to read you do get some breaks from it, though!

HCHC

Hi @[Ho...] does @[Re...] still post?

[[Li...]]

10 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

does @[Re...] still post?

Yes. You can view her posts at:

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