Is this Benzo WD? How to best deal with it?

[[Po...]]

 

Sometimes smart people do stupid things. I’m one of those people it would seem. 
In June 2023 my wife and I made a cross country move. Due to extenuating circumstances I had to take care of the move all by myself. As you might guess a big move like that is stressful and given my personality it was especially stressful for me. Part of it required a 5 day drive cross country staying in motels & driving 6-7hrs per day. I don’t do motels well either. I knew I was going to have a hard time, not sleeping was a major anxiety, so I asked my doc for a Rx of Valium, 30 tablets with no refills. 
Making a very long story short I was on a benzo for 20 years and got off quite some time ago with no issues. I assumed I could take a few Valium to get me through the move and be ok. I took those 30 tablets over the course of 4-5months. Then when I got where I was going and got a new doctor he gave me a Rx of 30 tablets. I took about 20 tablets over the course of 8 months and threw the rest away. I think the last dose was in April. 
Since then my sleep has not been very good. I found myself often feeling unrested, cranky and often just not feeling well. Then last night at 12am I popped awake and was awake the rest of the night feeling anxious, kind of jittery,  not feeling well at all. Miserable actually. 
I have been wondering all spring and summer why my sleep has not been good, gradually getting worse it seems, why I can’t seem to nap anymore and why I’ve been feeling so tough. Then last night in the wee hours it dawned on me “ dummy, you are probably in some variation of drawn out benzo WD. Or at least that’s what I think is going on. 
If that’s the case I’m wondering 1) how long will it last, 2) will it get worse before it ends, 3) should I find a knowledgeable doc and reinstate and taper again.  Should  I just say to hell with it &reinstate for life. I’m 75.   My understanding of all this benzo stuff is reinstating at this point in my history is not the best thing to do, but is it the worst thing I could do??
if this drags on and on like lastnight I’m not sure I can last very long. You’d think a 75 y/o relatively smart guy with my experience would have known better

Pokey

 

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[[Cr...]]

1 hour ago, [[P...] said:

that’s the case I’m wondering 1) how long will it last, 2) will it get worse before it ends, 3) should I find a knowledgeable doc and reinstate and taper again.  Should  I just say to hell with it &reinstate for life. I’m 75.  

How long it will last can not be accurately predicted by anyone. Typically, for outliers like us, withdrawal mostly ends in 6 to 24 months. That could be the case for you, but with your sporadic use things may get better much sooner.

I am not going to lie and say it will not get worse before it ends because I do not know. Many people gradually get better, while others go back and forth in regards to symptom intensity until full recovery. In my case things got drastically worse during my last month before I would ultimately recover.

At your age I would not fault you for wanting to remain on benzos, as your body is your agency. However, with you being 4 months off, it may be a risky proposition to reinstate. You may find that Valium is not as effective as it once was or that it causes your symptoms to worsen. The worst case would be reinstatement that only provides relief for a few months but leaves you feeling a lot worse and requires you to go through a long drawn-out taper.

You are 4 months off. For all we know you may recover by 6 months. I'd hate to see you lose that progress. I think it would be best to try to give yourself some more time. Ultimately you should make a decision that you feel would give you the best quality of life for your remaining years. I think that greater chances lay within remaining benzo free than with reinstating.

[[Po...]]

Thanks for the advice. I could tell when I’d take a PRN does as I described it did not seem as effective as it use to be in my past. My primary symptom is insomnia (can’t stay asleep) with the subsequent fatigue. I’ve been  sleeping 5-6 hours more recently (I need 7+)?but then I’ll sporadically get 6.5-7 but then last night I only got 2. Other than being tired and cranky from lack of sleep I’m not having any, yet,  of the terrible sxs some people get. I’m just dead dog tired, well, and anxious about not sleeping. I’ll have a doctors appointment next week to discuss all this, but since he’s a new doc for me I will take his advice with caution. 

[[Cr...]]

15 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

Thanks for the advice. I could tell when I’d take a PRN does as I described it did not seem as effective as it use to be in my past. My primary symptom is insomnia (can’t stay asleep) with the subsequent fatigue. I’ve been  sleeping 5-6 hours more recently (I need 7+)?but then I’ll sporadically get 6.5-7 but then last night I only got 2. Other than being tired and cranky from lack of sleep I’m not having any, yet,  of the terrible sxs some people get. I’m just dead dog tired, well, and anxious about not sleeping. I’ll have a doctors appointment next week to discuss all this, but since he’s a new doc for me I will take his advice with caution. 

What all have you tried for the insomnia?

Insomnia alone is a rough symptom, but luckily it is primarily your main symptom. Imagine having insomnia but also dealing with 15 other benzo withdrawal/tolerance on top of it.

[[Po...]]

I take a low dose of Mirtazapine, plus melatonin and CBD oil. I most typically fall sleep, so far, but then wake up early. Last night  I woke up at midnight and that was it for the night. Sometimes I take Clonidine for anxiety but it was of no help last night. I get sleep anxiety when I don’t sleep well. 

[[or...]]

@[Po...] I hear you about insomnia. I, too, suffer from it. Lately, I've been adding 25 mgs of CBN to  my nighttime "cocktail". Recent studies suggest that while CBD is useful to relax us, and thereby to help us slide into sleep, CBN is more useful as it actually promotes not only sleepiness (!) but helps keep us asleep. You can buy CBN gummies (and maybe oil) from Lazarus Naturals or Charlotte's Web. They may have a CBD/CBN combo as well. (I make my own cannabis gummies now, but I used to buy from  them). There's also research showing that a TINY bit of THC combines with the other cannabnoids I've mentioned, helps promote sleep. I tried this out myself . . . went to the mj dispensary and bought a batch (10) of indica gummies. Each gummie was 10 mgs so I cut it up into 10ths and have been taking on tenth at night or 1 mg. It, combined with the CBN really has made an improvement in my sleep.

Oh, I should just mention that Unisom sleep tabs are great for putting you to sleep but not for keeping you asleep. Also, you develop a tolerance very quickly. I've tried them from time to time in the past, too.

Chamomille tea is a great natural sedative. I use it now and then.

Just some ideas. Wishing you better zzzzzzs my friend.

Katz

[[Po...]]

I tried THC and it jazzed me up. I use 85mg of CBD. I will try a CBD/CBN combo. I low dose mirtazapine as well. It’s supposed to help keep me asleep but seems to haa a be lost it’s punch. 
im curious if you live in Oregon? We just moved from Grants Pass back to our home state of Missouri after being gone 42 years. 25 in Alaska. I miss the scenery & weather of Oregon. Great place. Thanks for the insomnia tips

pokey

 

[[or...]]

@[Po...] I do live in Oregon. Corvallis. I used to live on the coast (Newport, 25 years) and sure loved it there, but my partner needed better health care than the Newport hospital provided, so we moved to Corvallis. 

Wishing you well on your sleep journey!

Katz

[[Po...]]

I know Newport. Love the Oregon coast. Thinking of becoming a sunbird and going to Yachats for a month next summer. I don’t like hot and it’s hot here in summer. It was hot in Grants Pass too. Best wishes 

[[Bo...]]

16 hours ago, [[P...] said:

I tried THC and it jazzed me up. I use 85mg of CBD. I will try a CBD/CBN combo. I low dose mirtazapine as well. It’s supposed to help keep me asleep but seems to haa a be lost it’s punch. 
im curious if you live in Oregon? We just moved from Grants Pass back to our home state of Missouri after being gone 42 years. 25 in Alaska. I miss the scenery & weather of Oregon. Great place. Thanks for the insomnia tips

pokey

I suffer from insomnia for 30 years. Became worse last year due to anxiety over my health. Doctor prescribed ativan. Worst mistake of my life. Long story short, took it for 6 months, horrible taper with hardly any sleep at all. Jumped 17 days ago and now take melatonin with valerian, passiflora, melissa, gaba and vitamine b complex. Rub magnesium  lotion on before sleeping. I adhere a strict sleeping schedule, a totally blacked out sleeping room and no tv or phone 1 hour before bed. Now I sleep 7 hours. Wake up sometimes but can go back to sleep. Its better sleep than I had in 30 years. I will never take benzos again. 

[[Po...]]

In addition to CBD I take low dose mirtazapine which studies have indicated it’s safe and effective for us older folks. I also take melatonin and do a meditation/relaxation exercise every night. I sleep in a dark room and use white noise. Doesn’t always work for me though. Another issue I struggle with is low back pain which only hits me at night in bed. Tylenol is my usual med for that but when it’s really bothersome I take a 60mg tab of tramadol.  I’m done with benzos too. I’m supposed to have a sleep study in 2 weeks. Doc suggested Ambien to help me sleep in the lab. I refused since it’s basically a benzo wolf in sheep’s clothing. Either I will sleep or I won’t.