Lorazepam to Valium

[[or...]]

@[mo...] what do you mean by "a really small taper"? Do you mean the taper amount you've decided on,  1.25 mgs? I hope so. You need to be consistent with your taper. How do you feel? Better than when you were on lorazepam? Able to function with day-to-day tasks and feel more or less okay? We refer to this as our "baseline". So if you feel that "more or less okay" state, then start your taper. A hold of 12 days isn't long, but if you feel okay, go for it.

 

Best,

Katz

[[Bo...]]

On 15/08/2024 at 14:24, [[m...] said:

@[Do...] sorry, shoudl have clarified. Not gabapentin but the supplement GABA.  But, going to stay way from it as well. Thanks! 

The supplement gaba does not cross the blood brain barrier, so it wont hurt you. I take them as a supplement also at night to help sleep. 

[[mo...]]

42 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

@[mo...] what do you mean by "a really small taper"? Do you mean the taper amount you've decided on,  1.25 mgs? I hope so. You need to be consistent with your taper. How do you feel? Better than when you were on lorazepam? Able to function with day-to-day tasks and feel more or less okay? We refer to this as our "baseline". So if you feel that "more or less okay" state, then start your taper. A hold of 12 days isn't long, but if you feel okay, go for it.

Best,

Katz

Yes, the 1.25 mg. It’s hard to tell if I’m doing better, really. The anxiety isn’t as often but the depression is not as good as it was. I just feel apathetic to everything.  I have my next appointment with the doctor on the 28th. Perhaps I should wait to start then? Which dose would I cut from first?  Morning, noon or late afternoon?

[[or...]]

@[mo...] maybe wait a bit longer to start your taper? There's no rush and you might feel a bit better. As for which dose to cut from . . . I intended to eventually eliminate my midday dose (three doses a day was a pain in the butt for me as I had to carry my valium with me when I travelled, or went out to meetings etc.) so I cut from that. Which dose do you think your body will notice the least? If you can figure that out, maybe that's the dose to cut from. Remember, valium has a very long half-life. Maybe the noon dose? 

Best,

Katz

[[Pa...]]

I wanted to reassure you about the apathy, its a normal condition of benzodiazepine withdrawal and recovery, we’re either filled with fear and doubt or we feel nothing.  When I was recovering, a man I’d worked with for years died in a freak ATV accident and the only thing I felt was envy, this is a miserable process.

[[mo...]]

@[Pa...] I am going to start my taper in about a week as per my doctor. Does 10% sound about right? I’d cut one of the 5 mg into 1/4ths and cut 1.25 from my midday dose which is the 2.5 mg. How long should I hold before another cut? Hoping the 10% will be ok for my body. I know I repeat many of the same questions but am desperate to do this right. 

Edited August 17 by [mo...]

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[mo...],I see you and @[or...] have been working through this together and what I've seen makes sense.  This will be an important first step and your observations will inform your next steps.  You'll record your reduction and each day, you'll observe and record your symptoms to learn how your body is going to react.  Most of our members get a good sense of when they're symptoms will come on, when they'll peak and when they'll begin to diminish, I expect you will too.

Be prepared to give this first reduction all the time your body needs to reach stability again, I'm thinking a couple of weeks at least to learn how your body is going to react.  This experiment requires patience but that patience will pay off when you're able to be functional as you rid yourself of this medication. 

[[mo...]]

4 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

Hi @[mo...],I see you and @[or...] have been working through this together and what I've seen makes sense.  This will be an important first step and your observations will inform your next steps.  You'll record your reduction and each day, you'll observe and record your symptoms to learn how your body is going to react.  Most of our members get a good sense of when they're symptoms will come on, when they'll peak and when they'll begin to diminish, I expect you will too.

Be prepared to give this first reduction all the time your body needs to reach stability again, I'm thinking a couple of weeks at least to learn how your body is going to react.  This experiment requires patience but that patience will pay off when you're able to be functional as you rid yourself of this medication. 

Well heck! I don’t dare try a reduction every 7-10 days then. If I’m going to react badly, when would it show up? The next day or could it take several days to manifest? And, If it does, do I hold until it gets better then do a smaller cut the next time or go back up by 5%? 

[[Pa...]]

Professor Ashton reduced her patients every 1-2 weeks because Valium is so slow to leave the body, so this first reduction will let you know where you fall into that range, please don't let impatience push you to make a another reduction until your body has fully realized the first and yes, it will most likely take several days. 

Remember, you'll feel initial symptoms after the reduction, then they'll peak and then hopefully, they'll start to diminish.  If your symptoms from this reduction are too much for you then we can look at reducing the amount you taper next time but you should expect to be uncomfortable.  We most always suggest holding rather than updosing and from what I hear, its usually effective. 

[[mo...]]

Thank you. 

[[mo...]]

2 hours ago, [[P...] said:

Professor Ashton reduced her patients every 1-2 weeks because Valium is so slow to leave the body, so this first reduction will let you know where you fall into that range, please don't let impatience push you to make a another reduction until your body has fully realized the first and yes, it will most likely take several days. 

Remember, you'll feel initial symptoms after the reduction, then they'll peak and then hopefully, they'll start to diminish.  If your symptoms from this reduction are too much for you then we can look at reducing the amount you taper next time but you should expect to be uncomfortable.  We most always suggest holding rather than updosing and from what I hear, its usually effective. 

@[Pa...] Will I stay uncomfortable the whole tapering process or just for a few days as I adjust to each cut? My doctor made it sound like it would be an easy taper with the switch to Valium and that I would feel much better. So far, that hasn’t held true obviously. 

[[Pa...]]

1 hour ago, [[m...] said:

@[Pa...] Will I stay uncomfortable the whole tapering process or just for a few days as I adjust to each cut? My doctor made it sound like it would be an easy taper with the switch to Valium and that I would feel much better. So far, that hasn’t held true obviously. 

Hi @[mo...], I'm sorry but I believe this will be uncomfortable, Valium does help with interdose withdrawal but its still a benzodiazepine and you will feel its loss as you reduce your dose.  

[[mo...]]

10 hours ago, [[P...] said:

Hi @[mo...], I'm sorry but I believe this will be uncomfortable, Valium does help with interdose withdrawal but its still a benzodiazepine and you will feel its loss as you reduce your dose.  

@[Pa...] I don’t I think I can do this. Been up with worsening anxiety. I just need to feel like myself even if for a day. I can’t imagine feeling like this the whole tapering process. I can’t keep doing this to my husband either. The anxiety can be a combination of the pituitary tumor, the sleep medication I take (side effect is anxiety), or just the benzo. I have no clue which or combo. I’m going crazy and not sure I can keep this up. If I don’t take the sleep med, I don’t sleep. If I don’t sleep, anxiety is through the roof too. I’m stuck!!

Edited August 18 by [mo...]

[[Pa...]]

@[mo...], I can see this is extremely difficult for you, I wonder if it would be a good idea to speak with your doctor about perhaps increasing your dose of Valium and staying on it for awhile?  What you've attempted to do by crossing to Valium has been very destabilizing, both physically and mentally so maybe taking some time to feel better and gather your strength for the next phase would be helpful.

[[mo...]]

@[Pa...]  Husband and I were just talking. We feel pretty sure it is the xywav I take twice a night as I went through the same several years ago on the same med just a different variation. Going to try to not take it tonight which means little to no sleep but I need to try. The night sweats are coming from the tumor pushing down my hormones to near zero so menopause is kicking my rear. I really don’t want to increase the Valium and have to start tapering from a higher amount. I just want and need to have some sort of normalcy again. 

Edited August 18 by [mo...]

[[Pa...]]

I'm so glad you have your husband to work this through with you @[mo...], please let us know what you discover by not taking the xywav.  I think its a good idea to try experimenting to find out what's going on but understand you're inviting more misery in the process. 

[[mo...]]

@[Pa...] By more misery, do you mean by not taking the full 15 mg of Valium and hold longer or stopping xywav? 

Edited August 18 by [mo...]

[[Pa...]]

39 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

@[Pa...] By more misery, do you mean by not taking the full 15 mg of Valium and hold longer or stopping xywav? 

I meant stopping the xywav, you mentioned you won't sleep and that will be miserable. 

[[mo...]]

@[Pa...] @[Do...] @[or...]

 

i took just  one dose of the xywav last night and at a lower amount too. Didn’t sleep as well obviously and am exhausted. Anxiety is super high this morning. worst that’s it’s been since I stopped lorazepam. I worry it’s because I’m becoming tolerant of the Valium dose or should have gone to the 15 mg vs the 12.5 but my husband said I’m overthinking and it’s because I’m tired and my body isn’t happy with taking less xywav. I was hoping to start tapering next week but don’t think it’s going to happen with how I’m feeling today.  It’s hard because I know xywav increases anxiety but benzos do too. Feeling pretty lost today.   
 

[[or...]]

@[mo...] sorry to hear this. Holding your valium here and waiting to start tapering until you feel better is probably wise. 

Katz

[[mo...]]

@[Pa...]I need reassurance I’m going to make it through this. Today is an extremely tough day and I just don’t see an end in sight!! I’m having dark thoughts. Nothing that I would act on but they’re still there. I thought switching to the valium was going to make this process a little easier but it’s not and I just don’t understand! Could it be that I’m still withdrawing from the lorazepam after two weeks?

Edited August 20 by [mo...]

[Guest [Do...]]

Hi @[mo...] i totally agree @[or...] here, one thing all of us learn eventually is that time is on our side and there isn't a single reason to rush.

When you stabilize in your valium dose and start to feel better in your skin, you will be happy to waited and then you will know when to start tapering.

Also dropping your dose when you haven't even got used to it is not wise and your symptoms will most likely increase.

I think your doing good and you can feel slowing the difference everyday, the beguining is the gardest and once you are stable and find your pace it will be easier, i promise.

 

Edited August 20 by Guest

[[mo...]]

@[Do...] but the longer I stay on these the harder it is going to be to get off right? I just want to be done with all of this!

[Guest [Do...]]

1 minute ago, [[m...] said:

I need reassurance I’m going to make it through this. Today is an extremely tough day and I just don’t see an end in sight!! I’m having dark thoughts. Nothing that I would act on but they’re still there.

Yes you're gonnamake it, just be patience and calm. Dark thoughts are very commun at the start and they improve with time, it all comes together, intrusive thoughts, anxiety, pain, you're still in acute phase, it will get better, you're healing and your body is just missing the drugs so much, let it get use to the new dose.

 

[[mo...]]

I was on what everyone said was a small dose for a short time. I don’t understand how I can be having such a tough time when all the experts said it would be an easier process for me. I’m scared and frustrated