Lorazepam to Valium

[[or...]]

@[mo...] my w/d s/x from valium were dizziness, nausea, an all-over sense of malaise and headaches. When these were really bad (because of cutting too often/too big) I was sick as a dog. Looking back, I should have held, thought things over, and reduced my taper dose/frequency whenever these s/x started to build up. A benzo buddy friend assured me that I would probably feel no more than "vaguely unwell" on my taper and I was distressed when I felt worse than that. Also looking back I should have realized that I was in charge and could make things better by holding and reducing my taper rate. Ah well. The benefits of hindsight, right? My advice: keep track of your dosage in a journal and note carefully how you feel, both psychologically and physically. I think that will be very beneficial.

Katz

[[mo...]]

Will do. Thanks again for answering my many questions. I seem to be doing ok with the 12.5 mg vs 16 so am glad I’m sticking with that. 
Today is day 8 of the switch and day 6 of not breaking down and taking .25 of lorazepam. I’m going to hold until my follow up on the 28th then start to taper. Just not sure of what schedule I should follow and which dose to start tapering. While my doctor might surprise me, I have a feeling he isn’t going to be much help since he suggested dropping so much to begin with. 

[[or...]]

@[mo...] when you talk about "breaking down" and taking a bit of lorazepam, I cringe. Please don't do that. You will be affecting your hold and your eventual taper -- confusing your body. Can you toss the leftover lorazepam  out? Make a commitment to your valium hold and your eventual taper? So many of my buddies held onto their "precious" i.e. their valium, after their tapers were over and popped one or two when they felt bad. (It didn't help them btw). Ai yi. Knowing what a wimp I am, I tossed mine out lest I was ever tempted.

I would suggest tapering from the dose that seems to do you the least good . . . and figuring out a 5 or 10% reduction. See how that goes (journal!) then decide after 2 weeks or so if you want to increase the taper amount.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see what your doc suggests. 

Katz

[[mo...]]

@[or...]I only did it those two days to test if it was withdrawal as someone suggested. Trust me, won’t happen again. Proud to be on day 7 days actually without taking it. 

[[or...]]

@[mo...]  

Katz

[[mo...]]

@[or...] @[Pa...] @[Do...]

I’m trying to step away from the nightime sleep medication I take, xywav, as we know it is causing anxiety which is a known side effect. I took only one dose last night at about 1:30 and it was a rough night. I’ve stopped this medication in the past years ago due to anxiety and didn’t have any issues other than about a week of more insomnia. 
 

With being on Valium, can I take GABA at bedtime to help with sleep? I already take magnesium glycinate and melatonin. Any other suggestions of things that might help with sleep? 

[[or...]]

@[mo...] I wouldn't take GABA. We are trying to encourage our gaba receptors to recover  by eliminating benzos which do attach to those receptors. I'm not sure to what extent GABA does attach to receptors, or how well it crosses the blood-brain barrier, but if it were me, I wouldn't take a chance. Go Google GABA and read about it and the receptors, and make up your own mind. But from what I've read, I wouldn't risk it. 

So, what can you take to promote sleep? Magnesium glycinate and melatonin (just a bit . . . 1 mg or less) are okay. I take a CBD/CBN gummy from Charlotte's Web. I've found over the years that a little bit of non-psychoactive cannabis helps me sleep. (CBD relaxes you, CBN puts and keeps you asleep). There are quite a few studies supporting the use of these two cannabinoids for sleep. Charlotte's Web is the world's biggest and most reputable supplier of cannabis products.  

If you're desperate for sleep (only do this if you are truly desperate) you can take half a tab or a whole tab of Unisom Sleep Tabs. They're sedating antihistamines and knock you out cold. But you develop a tolerance pretty quickly . . . within a week. But for short term, they're the cat's pajamas.

I have some go-to-sleep stories and meditations that I Iisten to sometimes. The app is called Slumber and there's a lot of free stuff. As well, YouTube has a ton of swoony sleep music. It might work for you.

Of course practice good "sleep hygiene" -- no bright screens for 2 hours before bed. I sometimes read on my Kindle using the warm light function (you can find it in Settings). No bright blue light. It kills your melatonin. I've been finding lately that reading a book keeps my mind on the story and not on the thousand things that might be making me anxious.

Hmmm . . . if I think of anything else, I'll add to this.

Wishing you good zzzzzzzzs ,

Katz

 

[[mo...]]

@[or...] Thanks for the advice! Unisom, etc doesn’t do a thing for me sadly. I listen to sleep stories on calm and do the warm setting on my phone in the evening. The melatonin I have is 5 mg. That’s too much then?  I got a medical marijuana card in February to see if it would help with sleep and/or anxiety and it, unfortunately, makes anxiety a lot worse for me even in low doses. Maybe I’ll try Charlotte’s web to see if it does anything. My husband uses delta 8 for his pain and it has made a huge difference for him. How much magnesium do you take?

Edited August 14 by [mo...]

[[or...]]

@[mo...] I take 300 mgs of magnesium citrate, not glycinate. (I need the citrate for, um, digestive reasons). As for the melatonin, less than 1 mg is what's recommended. More does not help . . . we just pee it away. Are you saying that CBD/CBN does nothing for you? There are some formulations of CBD/CBN with Delta 8 and that seems to work for some people. A low dose of THC (around 2.5 mgs) is supposed to be helpful for sleep. I'm about to add that to my CBD/CBN gummie. ( I bought some 10 mgs THC gummies at the local dispensary and cut them into 1/4 s.) Insomnia is a bear . . . and I'm always tinkering to get a good night's sleep. So far I'm at 5-6 hours, but it could be better.

Best to you,

Katz

Edited August 15 by [or...]

[Guest [Do...]]

14 hours ago, [[m...] said:

@[or...] @[Pa...] @[Do...]

I’m trying to step away from the nightime sleep medication I take, xywav, as we know it is causing anxiety which is a known side effect. I took only one dose last night at about 1:30 and it was a rough night. I’ve stopped this medication in the past years ago due to anxiety and didn’t have any issues other than about a week of more insomnia. 
 

With being on Valium, can I take GABA at bedtime to help with sleep? I already take magnesium glycinate and melatonin. Any other suggestions of things that might help with sleep? 

Hi @[mo...] i am sorry but i can't help you very much in this as my opinion is not to take any supplements or anything else than the medication you're already in and you're trying to come off.

Any supplement that affects GABA is a bad idea cause for example Gabapentin or Pregabalina (Lyrica) could, if you're lucky, give some relief on benzos WD symptoms but they have their own side horrible side effects and their own long WD you would have to make once you're free from benzos. Other things like magnesium i have red enough times is not good to take while on benzo WD and melatonin in my experience makes horrible nightmares and poor sleep.

Also, i don't wanna scare you, but think twice before you take any other tranquilizers (like gaba affecters or opioids) cause there is a serious risk of severe breathing problems or even death.

 

 

 

Edited August 15 by Guest

[[mo...]]

@[Do...] sorry, shoudl have clarified. Not gabapentin but the supplement GABA.  But, going to stay way from it as well. Thanks! 

[Guest [Do...]]

Just now, [[m...] said:

@[Do...] sorry, shoudl have clarified. Not gabapentin but the supplement GABA.  But, going to stay way from it as well. Thanks! 

I understood you right, i just wanted to warn youm cause unfortunately, Gabapentin and pregabalin are the most recommended meds by doctors to "help" you with benzos WD, 3 different psychiatrists prescribed me Lyrica when i was looking for help at the beguining of my taper, i was lucky to find the information about it before and never took a single pill.

But it is possible that some of the meds you're already taking are causing your anxiety, melatonin could do it, even magnesium, just be smart and try to test if your better or worse with those supplements and get rid of the ones you can.

[[mo...]]

@[Do...] @[Pa...] @[or...].   Looking at the Ashton schedule for tapering from 40 mg Valium I can’t figure out wherein should start since I’m starting from 12.5.  Taking the 12.5 (5, 2.5, and 5) I’m wanting to be prepared to start once stabilized. I’m feeling a bit better today. Not as many panic attacks and the skin burning/tingling is only in my hands and much better.

if I taper 10%, I would cut 1.25 mg or 1/4 of of a 5 mg pill. But, should I try 5% first and see how that goes? Not sure how I would cut that from a 5 or 2 mg pill. Then, how long would I hold before the next cut, 1-2 weeks? I just want me life back! I want my husband to have his wife back! 

[[or...]]

@[mo...] I see your dilemma. If I were you, I would cut 10% (1.25 mg or 1/4) of my 5 mg pill. That seems easy. Do that for, say 2 weeks, then cut again. If cutting 1.25 seems too big, drop back to 5%. Pill cutting is annoying, but I did it and so did others. You'll get the hang of it. The main thing is you want a cut and a dose that is comfortable for you. That doesn't mean NO s/x,it just means a few that you can tolerate and still get  on with your life.

I haven't heard yet about how long you intend to hold at your 15 mg valium dose. Please institute a decent hold, and get to feeling more or less okay before you embark on a  taper. I can't emphasize this enough. 

Best,

Katz

[[Pa...]]

@[mo...], I know you're already pretty nervous about things and I'm not trying to scare you any more but I just wanted to comment on @[Do...]'s advice about supplements, they can be tricky.  We just don't know how we're going to react to things while our central nervous system is so sensitive, and that doesn't just apply to supplements, some medications like steroids and antibiotics can cause upheaval.

 

[[mo...]]

@[or...]

I’m actually at 12.5. Since the majority of my doses on lorazepam was 1.25 we decided to do the switch at 12.5 Valium. So, if I cut 10% and gold for 2 weeks doing ok, then I continue 10% cures each time while, of course, listening to my body. Or, do I need to cut smaller amounts as I get lower? I’m thinking of asking my doctor for a liquid when I get down much lower for ease of cutting versus pills. 

[[mo...]]

1 hour ago, [[P...] said:

@[mo...], I know you're already pretty nervous about things and I'm not trying to scare you any more but I just wanted to comment on @[Do...]'s advice about supplements, they can be tricky.  We just don't know how we're going to react to things while our central nervous system is so sensitive, and that doesn't just apply to supplements, some medications like steroids and antibiotics can cause upheaval.

@[Pa...] got it! I seem to don find with magnesium glycinate and melatonin so will continue those. What concerns me is the fact that I get UTI’s pretty often with having a cystocele. I’ll have to see what antibiotics are best to use while tapering. Ugh, so much to think about. I was hoping I could taper and be done in just a few months but am even more discouraged after reading stories of much longer tapers being needed by so many. 

[[or...]]

@[mo...] I second Pamster and Dolvian's advice about supplements. The fewer the better imo.

Yes, if you cut 10% for 2 weeks and feel okay (you're going to keep track of things in your journal, right ) you can certainly continue at that rate. You will probably have to make smaller cuts as you get lower in dosage -- I certainly did -- as it seems the cuts catch up with you. You might even have to hold a few times, delaying your planned cut. That's no big problem . . . we all held when we had to.

Getting liquid prescribed is a very good idea. That will make things a lot easier than cutting up pills. 

It's hard not to be, but don't be too discouraged. Your taper will be as long or short as it needs to be. And then you'll be done.

As for antibiotics, I was able to take them on my taper with no problem. I just avoided the fluoroquinolones. Cipro and its cousins. If you need an antibiotic, you can probably take what you took before your taper. I did and it was okay.

Best wishes,

Katz

[[mo...]]

8 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

@[mo...] I second Pamster and Dolvian's advice about supplements. The fewer the better imo.

Yes, if you cut 10% for 2 weeks and feel okay (you're going to keep track of things in your journal, right ) you can certainly continue at that rate. You will probably have to make smaller cuts as you get lower in dosage -- I certainly did -- as it seems the cuts catch up with you. You might even have to hold a few times, delaying your planned cut. That's no big problem . . . we all held when we had to.

Getting liquid prescribed is a very good idea. That will make things a lot easier than cutting up pills. 

It's hard not to be, but don't be too discouraged. Your taper will be as long or short as it needs to be. And then you'll be done.

As for antibiotics, I was able to take them on my taper with no problem. I just avoided the fluoroquinolones. Cipro and its cousins. If you need an antibiotic, you can probably take what you took before your taper. I did and it was okay.

Best wishes,

Katz

Thank you! I know it seems like I’m in need of constant reassurances and I guess I am, if I’m being honest. I was part of several pages on Facebook and some of the stories there terrified me

Thank you  all again!

[[Pa...]]

We understand the need for constant reassurance, and we also understand this feeling is foreign to most of us.  I was a fully functional, confident woman but this process reduced me to a paranoid, fear filled whiner, oh my gosh, I even got on my own nerves! 

[[mo...]]

14 hours ago, [[P...] said:

We understand the need for constant reassurance, and we also understand this feeling is foreign to most of us.  I was a fully functional, confident and successful woman but this process reduced me to a paranoid, fear filled whiner, oh my gosh, I even got on my own nerves! 

That was me!! Are you back to being you again?

[[mo...]]

The anxiety is somewhat a better but depression has reared its ugly head! Not sure if I  can keep feeling this way and am hoping it will level out. 

[[or...]]

@[mo...] I just wanted to say that from time to time I, too, felt some depression while I was tapering. But I don't think it was caused by the chemical makeup of the drug. I think it was caused by the act of tapering itself. How long would this last? How bad would it get? How many bad days would I have? Looking into the future made me depressed, I think. If I could have had an end-date i.e. "this will last for x amount of time" like the flu or a the pain from a broken arm, I would have been less down in the dumps about things. Anyhow, I cherished my good days . . . they lifted me out of my funk . . . and carried on. I don't know if this has been helpful . . . just wanted to pass on this observation about my own mental state as I was tapering. 

Best,

Katz

[[Pa...]]

1 hour ago, [[m...] said:

That was me!! Are you back to being you again?

Absolutely, when I recovered, I was myself again, it was like it never happened, no PTSD and no lifelong sensitivities.  I'll never forget it but it doesn't hurt me to remember it when helping others.

[[mo...]]

22 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

@[mo...] I just wanted to say that from time to time I, too, felt some depression while I was tapering. But I don't think it was caused by the chemical makeup of the drug. I think it was caused by the act of tapering itself. How long would this last? How bad would it get? How many bad days would I have? Looking into the future made me depressed, I think. If I could have had an end-date i.e. "this will last for x amount of time" like the flu or a the pain from a broken arm, I would have been less down in the dumps about things. Anyhow, I cherished my good days . . . they lifted me out of my funk . . . and carried on. I don't know if this has been helpful . . . just wanted to pass on this observation about my own mental state as I was tapering. 

Best,

Katz

Very helpful, thank you. I just wonder if it is the Valium causing the depression though since I already deal with depression. 
 

How can I tell if I’m ready to do a small taper? It’s been 10 days without lorazepam and 12 days on Valium.