Lorazepam to Valium

[[mo...]]

I’m even worse today. I won’t go over the 12 mg but not sure if I can make it through more days like this. 

[[mo...]]

We must have been typing same time @[or...]. 
 

I’ll ask for the additional 5 mg but have a strong feeling he won’t do it. Would I do 3 times a day then or split the 15 between 2? I’ve read the Ashton manual several times and hope he will listen to me. There isn’t anyone else in the areas who is taking new patients so I’m stuck with him sadly. 

[[Pa...]]

13 hours ago, [[m...] said:

I don’t want to make him mad at me though. He knows I’m not happy with his lack of following the protocol so will probably figure out the complaint started with me. At the first appointment, he actually told us he had a patient who surprised herself by tapering quickly off of Valium without any issues and he didn’t think I would have any either. 

I won't contact BIC, I wouldn't want to cause you any problems and BIC does have a disclaimer about the providers on their list, this was just my frustration talking.

 

The inclusion of a provider on this list does not imply expertise in benzodiazepine cessation. This list primarily aims to address prescription access concerns rather than provide benzodiazepine cessation experts or protracted withdrawal assistance. If you have a prescriber who may lack extensive knowledge but is willing to support your slow tapering protocol, it may be advisable to continue working with them. This list is particularly beneficial for patients whose prescribers are forcing a rapid and unsafe taper or have abruptly discontinued their access to a prescription.

This list welcomes providers who are willing to help patients slowly taper their benzodiazepines, even if they aren’t experts. They may suggest tapering too quickly, or adding unproven medications, and other treatments, so it’s important to understand what a safe taper involves and be ready to discuss it with them.

 

 

[[mo...]]

@[Pa...]thisnisbthe last message I’m going to send him. If I don’t hear back, I’m done. But then don’t know where I’ll get what I need to taper. 
 

[[or...]]

@[mo...] good for you for advocating for yourself. I hope he prescribes the additional mgs of valium you need. Let's assume he will. For heaven's sake, you're not asking for the moon! Here is what I did with my 15 mgs of valium once I was crossed over. I took 3 doses a day . . . am, pm and nighttime. That seemed to work very well for me. I know many people take 2 (you would divide your 15 mg accordingly) but 2 did not seem to work as well for me as 3. I needed 2 doses to be calm during the day . . . and I needed it at nighttime to sleep. (Believe me, a lot of trial and error went on in my taper). You can tinker with dosages once you get the full 15 mgs to work with. I stayed at 15 mgs for several weeks as the last lingering bits of that wretched lorazepam left my body, then thought about tapering. (Fortunately my NP was completely on board and  prescribed all the valium I needed). 

So what if he continues to be an ill-informed jerk and won't let you dictate the terms of your valium taper? Well, get out your phone book and start making inquiries. Some other provider will support you. You deserve to be able to plan your own taper. It's not going to be fun, @[mo...] but you need to start out from a place where you feel more or less okay.

Again, hope things work out.

Katz 

[[mo...]]

Well, if he ever answers me with anything other than sorry for your symptoms, I’ll be surprised.  I also just found out that I do have a pituitary tumor so that is just that much more stress I’m having to deal with. Using every tool in my box to try to deal with the anxiety and panic. 
 

Again, I appreciate the support I’m receiving here. I promise I won’t be posting as often once I get settled into a routine and getting comfortable with getting through this. 

[[Pa...]]

I'm glad you've reached out to your doctor and again, grateful @[or...] is here, personal experience is so helpful.

Please don't worry about the frequency of your posting, we understand the fear and pain. 

[[or...]]

@[mo...] I'm very sorry to hear about your tumor. The last thing you need is more stress. But a thought just occurred to me. What about your PCP? Once you explain to him/her that she/he only needs to make sure you have enough valium for your taper and that's all. Might she/he not agree to prescribe the valium you need? Really, we can advise you about holding, cutting, etc. You just need a drug prescriber. Many of us just "used" our prescriber to get the benzos we needed. We leaned on people in BB for tapering advice and moral support. Anyhow, just a thought.

Best to you,

Katz

[[mo...]]

@[or...] My doctor replied and added 5 mg Valium to the other 5 to be taken 3 times a day. I’m pleasantly surprised! I wonder if I should do twice a day though with 7 1/2 in the am and 71/2 pm? I’m relieved and excited to hopefully start feeling better once the lorazepam finally lets go of it’s grip. At the same time it makes me sad that I wasn’t able to handle doing the 10 or 12 mg so I could start tapering at a lower dose. 
I’m also relieved to know I have the advice with the experience of those here to figure out the tapering schedule. I’m not very trusting of my doctor after this last few days. 

[[or...]]

Wow @[mo...] that is surprising! Good for you for advocating for yourself. Yes, you might well do twice a day with 7 1/2 mgs each time and see how it goes. I did that (twice a day) until I realized I needed to do three times. So, sure, maybe try it out. Again, very well done! You told him what you needed and he agreed! One last point . . . please stay at 15 mgs until you feel well enough to start tapering, okay? There's no need to rush things. Tapering is a marathon, not a sprint. I'm so glad things resolved themselves in your favor. And of course, we valium veterans will be here to help with a tapering schedule.

Best wishes,

Katz

[[mo...]]

37 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

Wow @[mo...] that is surprising! Good for you for advocating for yourself. Yes, you might well do twice a day with 7 1/2 mgs each time and see how it goes. I did that (twice a day) until I realized I needed to do three times. So, sure, maybe try it out. Again, very well done! You told him what you needed and he agreed! One last point . . . please stay at 15 mgs until you feel well enough to start tapering, okay? There's no need to rush things. Tapering is a marathon, not a sprint. I'm so glad things resolved themselves in your favor. And of course, we valium veterans will be here to help with a tapering schedule.

Best wishes,

Katz

Did you have the depression @[Pa...] mentioned could happen? Yesterday I started feeling so overwhelmingly sad. If so, did your body adjust and when did you start feeling better? 

[[or...]]

No, @[mo...] I did not have depression with valium. What I did have was fatigue as my body was getting used to the whole 15 mgs with no lorazepam. For awhile I felt like I was tripping over my feet. That lasted for about a week, then cleared up, so perhaps your depression will last only that long, too. Sorry you were feeling sad. I hope it leaves you!

Katz

Edited August 10 by [or...]

[[mo...]]

I hope so too. Are you fully tapered? 

[[mo...]]

How much longer is it reasonable that I expect to have these horrible withdrawal symptoms from the lorazepam? I’m on day 6 with straight Valium. I hoped to wake up with more of the Valium built up to start countering things. I’m so exhausted. 

[[or...]]

@[mo...] My taper was finished years ago (2017). As I recall, I was definitely bothered on my cross by the w/d from lorazepam while the valium was building up. I had to work, go to Board meetings for my NPO group, and live my life with all its commitments, and I felt just . . .bad. I felt this way from the lorazepam's w/d for several weeks, but the horrid ebbed as the weeks went on during the cross. Then, when I was on valium alone, no more lorazepam w/ds. Sad to say, but you may feel not great for awhile . . . and no one knows how long. If I were you, I would journal how you feel as the days go on. I bet you will see that you feel a little less crappy each day until finally the crappy will be gone. Journaling how I felt physically and emotionally helped me a lot. I could look back and review my progress.

Stay strong, and look forward to better days ahead. 

Katz

[[mo...]]

I woke up this morning to more brain “zaps” like I was getting while tapering off Cymbalta some time ago. They are scary! @[or...] @[Pa...] Is it from the lorazepam withdrawal? Since the majority of my lorazepam total doses were 1.25 with the occasional 1.5, my husband and I decided to do 5 Valium mg at 7 am, 2.5 at noon and 5 mg at 5 pm. The doctor said if I could take the last dose later that would be better so I don’t have so long between doses but I can’t due to taking the xywav at 10. I’m in a catch 22.

Edited August 11 by [mo...]

[[mo...]]

Also, found out my pituitary tumor is 7mm x 6 mm x 8 mm. 

[[or...]]

@[mo...] yes you will feel the w/ds from lorazepam for longer than your doc asserted. I looked into how long it lasts in your body and it's way longer than a day or two. Detectable in urine 6-8 days after cessation. In hair, too. So, I'm not surprised you are having random zaps. But the  good news is that the zaps won't last. Pretty soon you'll be free of them and anything else that lorazepam is doing as it clears your body.

Best,

Katz

Edited August 11 by [or...]

[[mo...]]

@[or...]
 

Trying to figure out the eventual point in tapering in regard to taking xywav. For example, dosing 3 times a day. Do you taper one dose until you are only on two then taper the next dose until you’re only on one and that’s the one you eventually jump from?

I looked in Ashton and see the taper schedule for diazepam. We decided since most of my doses the last month have been 1.25 vs the occasional 1.5 of lorazepam, we are going to stick with 12.5 mg of Valium. Doing  5 mg  7 am, 2.5 mg at noon and 5 mg at 5 pm. Wondering if I can taper off the morning or evening dose first to make it easier for the xywav meds at night. 

Edited August 12 by [mo...]

[[or...]]

@[mo...] how you taper and eventually combine 3 doses into 2 will depend on how you feel. At least it did for me. I started taking 2 doses, realized I did not feel well, and re-divided my 15 mgs into 3 equal doses.  That made me feel better. But my goal was to go back to 2 doses (a lot less trouble), so I worked on eliminating the middle dose. Eventually I was left with am and pm. Then, much later in my taper (I think I was at 3 mgs then) I dropped to one dose in the am. Taking valium at night never did help me sleep as it did for many people. Anyhow, my point is you have to see how it goes. You can "mix and match" as you please, according to your s/x.

You sound better today. I hope that's the case. 

Best wishes,

Katz

[[mo...]]

@[or...] I woke up with a ton of anxiety this morning. Guessing it from going 12 hours between Valium due to taking xywav. I’m still having anxiety attacks, burning and tingling of my skin especially my hands and lower arms, headaches and some tremors. I’m hoping things are improving and tomorrow will bring a better day. Had to wash my hair last night and lost yet another huge handful of hair which doesn’t help with anxiety whatsoever. We did go for a walk with our pup this morning for the first time in awhile. I just want to feel happiness again. I want to wake up and not have a pounding heart and anxiety. But. I’m holding on to the knowledge that day is coming. 

[[or...]]

@[mo...] what on earth is xywav?

Anyhow, I'm  sorry you're so anxious. Maybe still the w/d effects of the lorazepam? When I was on all valium, after I'd held and decided to taper, I didn't have anxiety so much as some physical s/x: dizziness, headaches, malaise, and pukiness. Not all at once, though. Alas, they built up. I realized when I was down at about 5 mgs that I was going too fast, and cutting too much. I did a dosage reset. So . . . something to keep in mind (in your journal, right? ) when you start your taper.

Hope tomorrow is a better day. And yes, your post-benzo life IS coming. Believe that! 

Katz

[[mo...]]

@[or...] xywav is the medication I take twice nightly (bedtime and 2 1/2 - 4 hours later) to have better consolidated sleep, which narcolepsy doesn’t allow. 
It has to be taken at least 5 hours away from any benzos hence the last dose of Valium  at 5 pm and first morning dose at 7 am. 

How long did it take you to taper and jump off the Valium? I was hoping I would do it in 2-3 months from 12.5 mg. I know 10% will mean smaller decreases as my dose gets lower and I read the jump point is .05? 

[[or...]]

@[mo...] you may well be able to follow Ashton's reduction chart. Most people can. I was optimistic when I started. I followed it down to 5mgs, got very ill  from cutting too big/too fast, and had to hold forever When I started again, I was okay to 3 mgs. Then again I got really ill. I went to a DLMT then. . .a daily liquid microtaper. I don't want to scare you with how long the last 3 mgs of my taper took me . . . let's just say if I had "listened to my body" instead of rushing things, I would have been done much sooner than I was. 

Being a weenie, I tapered to zero. But most people can jump at .50 or .25.

Best,

Katz

[[mo...]]

@[or...] What was your body doing that eventually told you that you were tapering too fast? I want to get off as quaintly as possible but don’t want to suffer and, in turn, make my husband suffer more, because I’m mocking too fast. We are beginning to suspect  that the xywav is causing anxiety as well. It is a known side effect and I had it to the max when I was taking the first version of Xyrem some years ago. Had to quit taking it and went back to not sleeping well at all which isn’t good either.