Lorazepam to Valium

[[Pa...]]

How are you today @[mo...], I hope a little better because yesterday was pretty rough.  @[Do...] has provided some excellent tools to use, I hope with practice you can improve your situation.

I believe you when you say this is more difficult than what you faced while serving, I don’t have your experience but it was the worst experience of my life but I survived and you will too.  

[[mo...]]

Thanks for checking in with me! I’m in a constant state of anxiety/panic. I left a message for my provider asking if we could speak and  haven’t heard back yet. My whole body is in pain and shaking and I can’t sit still but can’t stand for long either. It’s like an electrical current running through me and my body can’t decide what it needs to do. I’ve been trying to distract myself. We picked corn from the garden and froze it. He is making sure I’m drinking and eating. I don’t know if I can do this for a week or longer, honestly. I so badly want to take a lorazepam to see if it helps at all.  My husband said I’m 1 1/2 days into it and it will get easier with each passing day as the Valium builds up but, in this moment, I’m having doubts. He worked in the ER and has seen people come in with withdrawal and is, as always, beyond supportive of me. I’m a very lucky wife! We have been married over 30 years and had our first date over 33 years ago. 

Edited August 5 by [mo...]

[Guest [Do...]]

1 hour ago, [[P...] said:

I believe you when you say this is more difficult than what you faced while serving

I served in the military aswell and i spent a whole year in a war and i think this benzo WD nightmare is the  worst i have ever been through.

46 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

My whole body is in pain and shaking and I can’t sit still but can’t stand for long either. It’s like an electrical current running through me and my body can’t decide what it needs to do.

It looks like the rebound anxiety the benzo WD is sending you is pretty severe, it will get better when you stabilize in you new dose and the symptoms will go milder, meanwhile try to keep the calm. I am sure this is not only your fear and the acute symptoms are huge and imposible to control just by your mindset but it will help to be calm. Practice acceptance and allowness, when the symptoms go milder go will feel better and be able to control your anxiety. It's hard to find you perfect dose when switched but you will eventually and feel better, this is a trial and error process, it has taken me almost 6 months in my taper to find a propper pace to taper.

Be strong, be clam.

[[mo...]]

I really am trying. So, you’re saying it could take months for me to feel somewhat better? I can not imagine this for a week much less months. I really can’t express how bad this is. This is worse than when I started having panic attacks. My body is worn out. I feel like my heart is going to give out which I know is anxiety. I’m so sorry to keep going on about how I’m feeling but I really truly don’t think I can keep going like this. I’m exhausted but can’t even take a nap. 

I am the one who solves my loved ones problems and makes sure everyone is ok. This is NOT me. I can’t believe I have gotten myself into this mess. 

[[Pa...]]

My heart is breaking for you @[mo...], I know the torment you’re feeling, I lived with the electricity running through me for too long but when I recovered it left with all of my other symptoms.

I understand you’re a problem solver, I understand you’re the one who nourishes and cares for your family, having to accept this fate is so difficult but you have an injury, and its real and you can’t expect and others can’t expect you to fill the role you always have until you recover from this.  

I’m grateful your husband understands and is making sure you’re taking care of yourself but is there a part of you that doubts what you’re experiencing are withdrawal symptoms, do you need to prove to it to yourself by taking an Ativan?  If you do, I get it, this process is all about fear and that fear drives us to some pretty dark places.  

I know when we talk in terms of months it scares you, you don’t know how you can hold on but somehow time passes and we find our way to good health again.  And remember, these are just symptoms of an overactive central nervous system, you don’t have a terrible illness, your body is doing its best to find balance and it will.  

Keep yourself busy like you have been, distraction is key.

[[mo...]]

If I take an Ativan, it will set me back with getting it out of my system though,  right? I truly thought fling to Valium was fling to make this easier. The doctor said I would feel so much better on it but I’m really starting to wonder. Does it typically make tapering easier with the longer half life? 

[[mo...]]

I took .25 lorazepam. It took about an hour but helped somewhat. My husband agreed it has helped so guess it is all withdrawal. I’m mad at myself for teyijg it but now I know. Still haven’t heard from my doctor. 

[[Pa...]]

You did the right thing @[mo...], we need to know what we’re dealing with and now you do, don’t be mad at yourself.  

Getting off of this medication isn’t easy, it takes patience,  experimentation and perseverance.  We’re performing an experiment on ourselves, we’re the actual subjects of this nightmare and we second guess each and every decision we make.  And the trouble is, we’re not in good shape to make decisions, our cognitive abilities are compromised making it that much more difficult.  Add in the fear this process creates and it’s the perfect storm.

You haven’t set yourself back, a one off dose won’t ruin your crossover to Valium.  Your doctor is right though, most who successfully cross over are glad they did but getting to that point is rough. I will say however that tapering from any benzodiazepine is not easy, but if interdose withdrawal is a factor, crossing to Valium can help.

I hope you can keep going but if you can’t, please don’t give up, many have successfully tapered off of Ativan, sometimes the devil you know if preferable to the one you don’t. 

 

 

[[mo...]]

@[Pa...] (finally getting this messaging down pat) I was starting to wonder if I should have been on the 15 mg Valium as per Dr Ashton’s guidance since I was taking 1.5 mg total of lorazepam. Maybe that would make a difference. But, am going to stay the course. 
Again, thank you all for the reassurances and advice. So glad to have found this group! 

[[mo...]]

Still haven’t heard from my doctor. I’m so frustrated as I’m really struggling and don’t know what to do. I chose him as he said he uses the Ashton method and adjusts based on patient’s needs and symptoms. This is beyond hard! I didn’t expect it to be easy but not this hard. 

[[Pa...]]

What is your daily dose now @[mo...], are you using the 2 mg, are you thinking you’d like to go up to 15 mgs?  

I know you’re frustrated you haven’t heard from your doctor but there really isn’t anything he can do to help you.  Even if you went up to 15, you’d still most likely be facing these same symptoms, I know its miserable.  

Is your mind telling you the typical lies, we have an entire thread dedicated to the lies our brain tells us while we go through this. 

 

[[mo...]]

4 hours ago, [[P...] said:

What is your daily dose now @[mo...], are you using the 2 mg, are you thinking you’d like to go up to 15 mgs?  

I know you’re frustrated you haven’t heard from your doctor but there really isn’t anything he can do to help you.  Even if you went up to 15, you’d still most likely be facing these same symptoms, I know its miserable.  

Is your mind telling you the typical lies, we have an entire thread dedicated to the lies our brain tells us while we go through this. 

Love the benzo lie post! So much of that is how I feel. Thank you! 

[[mo...]]

Today is really bad! Not sure I can get through this. I didn’t take the 2 mg yesterday and wasn’t nearly as bad as today. I don’t want to take it but might need to. I’m so over this and know I’m only at the start. 

[Guest [Do...]]

On 05/08/2024 at 19:36, [[m...] said:

So, you’re saying it could take months for me to feel somewhat better?

Not really, what i said is that it took me months to set a propper taper with the right speed and dose drop to be functional and have mild symptoms, during all this months i had more windows than waves but the waves were too horrible before and lasted longer.

On 05/08/2024 at 23:17, [[m...] said:

I was starting to wonder if I should have been on the 15 mg Valium as per Dr Ashton’s guidance since I was taking 1.5 mg total of lorazepam

According to the Ashton manual you should have taking some of the former benzo along with the new one for some time while switching, maybe that is what is making it so hard for you, i tried direct switch to 5mg diazepam and ended up having to take 2.5mg night and 1.25mg diazepam and 0.125mg lorazepam one week and then 1.875mg diaz  0.0625mg loraz next week and the third week i went full diazepam.

As i told you earlier, in the Ashotn manual there is an example of how to go from 3mg ativan to 30mg valium, you only had to divide it by 2 as your dose is half of 3mg.

Schedule 8. Withdrawal from lorazepam (Ativan) 3mg daily with diazepam (Valium) substitution. (3mg lorazepam is approximately equivalent to 30mg diazepam)

but instead of doing 1mg 3 times per day, just do go to 2 doses per day. Also in that example, it takes 6 weeks to completely switch from lorazepam to diazepam, i switched from 0.5mg lorazepam to 5mg diazepam and it took me 2 weeks, so you might have needed somewhere between 2-4 weeks to switch.

You will finally be ok but it might be the direct switch that is making it so hard for you.

[[mo...]]

I know it is but my doctor insisted I needed to do the direct switch. My husband said I’m 3 1/2 days into and just need to keep hanging on. I just don’t know how I’m going to do it. It comes in major waves and my body is exhausted. So thankful for my husband. He is making sure I’m eating, drinking and gives massages to try to calm me down. Don’t know how people do this on their own. I can’t help that I’m angry with my doctor. For someone who says he is there for his patient’s, his lack of even an acknowledgement of my message speaks volumes. It is all through a messaging system so just a comment of “stay the course” would be reassuring.  

[[Pa...]]

4 hours ago, [[m...] said:

Today is really bad! Not sure I can get through this. I didn’t take the 2 mg yesterday and wasn’t nearly as bad as today. I don’t want to take it but might need to. I’m so over this and know I’m only at the start. 

About that 2 mgs, if you're using it, use it consistently, we want and need stability and if it will help stabilize you then its a good idea to take it.  The point of a crossover is simply that, we don't want to taper and cross at the same time and since equivalencies aren't exact because we have different metabolisms, we have to allow for some wiggle room.

[[mo...]]

Got it! I took  it Sunday and Monday but didn’t take it yesterday or today so far. My thinking is that I keep going or should I add it back in? I’m sorry. I’m so confused. 

[[Pa...]]

1 minute ago, [[m...] said:

Got it! I took  it Sunday and Monday but didn’t take it yesterday or today so far. My thinking is that I keep going or should I add it back in? I’m sorry. I’m so confused. 

I can't say what you should do, I'm looking for consistency and so is your brain.  If you've gone two days without it, I wonder if you can go three?

Try not to let your anger with your doctor poison you, we have hundreds or perhaps thousands of posts of members angry with their doctors and while its justified, its counterproductive because the only person our anger hurts is us.  Our thoughts translate directly into intensified withdrawal symptoms, don't let that happen if you can. 

[[mo...]]

Such good points made. I guess it makes me angrier because he charged $495 for the appointment and I feel like he took our money, sent in a script and is leaving me hanging without any plan on tapering and no follow up for a month. I have no clue how much to cut with a 5 and a 2 mg tablet,  how long to hold, etc. I’m a researcher by nature and read all about  types or tapers for lorazepam. I have no clue for Valium so guess I better start researching that. I’ll start looking into the files here. 

[[or...]]

@[mo...] I'm a little later but  I just wanted to tell you that I used Ashton's crossover schedule to cross from Ativan to Valium. It worked out very well. Some of the figures were not exact, but you can (if I could, anyone can) figure out the equivalencies.  It's here:

https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm

Look for schedule 3. I couldn't have gone directly from Ativan to Valium. This was a lifesaver.

Hope it helps.

Katz

[[mo...]]

Thanks @[or...]! I’m 3 1/2 days into a direct switch and am going to stay the course. My doctor finally responded and said he expects I would only have these symptoms  for 2-3 days. Hoping I’ll start to feel somewhat better tomorrow. At least, that is the hope. 

[[mo...]]

That’s it. I’m going to take the 2 mg along with the two 5 mg doses tomorrow. Today is day 2 of not taking the extra 2 mg Valium. I’m worse than ever. My skin is burning and pricking/tingling and my pulse of up along with BP. I can’t do another day without the extra Valium. My husband and I truly think the 10 mg from 1.5 mg of lorazepam is too low. I need to stabilize so I can start to taper. I really messed up not taking it but thought I could make it and start to taper from a lower dose. 

[[or...]]

@[mo...] I crossed (slowly . . . according to Ashton's schedule) from 1.5 mgs of lorazepam  to 15 mgs of valium. It seemed the right amount of valium to me. I really had no problems with the cross and when I ended up on all valium it was as though my body did not "miss" that blasted lorazepam. I had serious  interdose wds on that drug. It was very uncomfortable.  Then, after I rested a bit at 15 mgs of valium, I started my taper. Anyhow, I wish you the best. 

Katz

[[Pa...]]

I'm thankful @[or...] is here, she has experience with Valium but she was able to follow the Ashton manual, your doctor is insisting on changing her protocol, not quite sure why...

[[mo...]]

8 hours ago, [[o...] said:

@[mo...] I crossed (slowly . . . according to Ashton's schedule) from 1.5 mgs of lorazepam  to 15 mgs of valium. It seemed the right amount of valium to me. I really had no problems with the cross and when I ended up on all valium it was as though my body did not "miss" that blasted lorazepam. I had serious  interdose wds on that drug. It was very uncomfortable.  Then, after I rested a bit at 15 mgs of valium, I started my taper. Anyhow, I wish you the best. 

Katz

Thanks! Do you mind my asking how much lorazepam you were taking and for how long? I’m not quite sure what to do with my doctor. He said, when he finally replied yesterday, that the withdrawal from lorazepam should only last 2-3 days and that certainly isn’t the case. I just don’t know if I should go back and restart with doing a crossover on my own without his support or stay the course. All I do know is that I’m absolutely miserable