Lorazepam to Valium

[[mo...]]

@[Pa...] but will reducing help the depression? I’m in a bad way with that. 

[Guest [Do...]]

5 hours ago, [[m...] said:

I’m not doing well on this oral solution. I’ve reached out to my doctor twice without a reply. How hard would it be to switch back to Ativan after a month on Valium? He said I could reduce to 11.5 from 12 mg but until I get this sleeping and depression under control, I don’t want to chance upsetting the Apple cart any more than it already is. Will I ever get off this? All I can do is sleep within 20 minutes of taking my dose. I’m sleeping my life away and when I’m awake I’m crying. Still have that anxiety lump in my chest too. I can’t win! @[Pa...] @[or...] @[or...] @[Do...]

@[mo...] you could go back to ativan but i would do it right this time and add the ativan very slowly as you remove the equivalent of diazepam but you still need to find a good doctor who helps you with this.

[[mo...]]

That has been the problem all along. Trying to find a doctor willing to work with me on a taper in a manner that is safe and/or one who’s accepting new patients. I found the one I’m currently using through the benzodiazepine coalition. So far, he hasn’t been much help other than being open to changing me over to the Valium, and then to liquid Valium. He’s not really giving any help with a taper schedule, etc. he pretty much just tells me to do when my body feels I can do.

[[Pa...]]

I don't know if it will help with the depression @[mo...] but feel its worth a shot to see if it will.

Going back on Ativan shouldn't be as painful as introducing Valium since its long acting and will cover you as you taper in the Ativan.

[[mo...]]

On 01/09/2024 at 15:07, [[L...] said:

Possibilities include (1) a difference in the bioavailability of the liquid dosage form versus the solid dosage form and (2) a (slight) difference in the amount of active pharmaceutical ingredient (API) in the liquid versus the solid dosage form. (Manufacturers are allowed some variability in API amount from the reference standard both for liquid and solid dosage forms; if the manufacturer of your tablets was on the low side and the manufacturer of your liquid is on the high side of the allowed variability, you might notice this difference). 

Possible solutions to consider include: (1) Give your body time to adjust to the new dosage form and (2) Take 1/2 of your dose in solid dosage form and 1/2 in liquid form.

Re: the nasty taste … The official FDA label for the concentrated diazepam oral solution states the following: 

“It is recommended that Diazepam Intensol Oral Solution be mixed with liquid or semi-solid food such as water, juices, soda or soda-like beverages, applesauce and puddings … Draw into the oral syringe the amount prescribed for a single dose. Then empty the oral syringe contents into a liquid or semi-solid food. Stir the liquid or food gently for a few seconds. The Diazepam Intensol Oral Solution formulation blends quickly and completely. The entire amount of the mixture, of drug and liquid or drug and food, should be consumed immediately. Do not store for future use.”

Although you may wish to confirm this with your pharmacist, my guess is it would be ok to follow a similar procedure with the 5mg/5mL oral solution. 

My doctor agreed to doing table and liquid. Since my mid-day dose of 2 ml doesn't affect me nearly as much as the 5 ml doses, I asked to do table in the morning and continue liquid for afternoon and evening dose. Going to continue the mid-day taper until off then taper the morning and evening doses evenly. Thinking taper each one by 1/2 the taper so I don't go a full 24 hours between doses with just one a day eventually. 

[[Pa...]]

I'm glad you're going to continue with the Valium for now, and I hope taking both tablet and liquid helps, please keep us posted @[mo...].  Everything you write helps us learn how to help the next person. 

[Guest [Do...]]

51 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

Thinking taper each one by 1/2 the taper so I don't go a full 24 hours between doses with just one a day eventually. 

@[mo...] You don't really need to do that, the main reason why you switch to diazepam is to avoid interdose symptoms and if you dont get those with diazepam is cause it last longer and there is no need of several doses a day, a single one is enough.

In my case i was taking lorazepam at night and very early in the morning i woke up every night when the effect was over and i spent all day in horrible symptoms till i took my night dose again, that is why i had to start 2 doses of lorazepam first and then decided to switch to diazepam, and the only thing i regret is that i sohuld have switched to a single dose... but 2 is more than enough, in my case too much to handle, we must not forget that taking a valium at lunch as i do is not very recommended, i never had oversedation or fatigue issues with lorazepam during the day.

[[mo...]]

 

@[Pa...] @[or...] @[or...] @[Do...]@[Ro...]

 

Checking in again. I’m currently on 11.4 ml as a mix of the Valium oral solution and tablets after the switch from lorazepam on 8/3. I’ve done two cuts from 12.5 to 12 after 10 days then to 11.4. I’m on day 9 at 11.4 ml and am not going to do another cut until we return from visiting our daughter on the 15th. 
 

Morning anxiety is still problematic and depression is hanging tight but I’m having windows here and there which I’m grateful for. Hoping I’m adjusting finally! 

I’m going to start doing 10% cuts and hope to be able to do it every 10 to 14 days from there. At what point would I consider microdosing or could I continue with the 10% cuts until I jump off? I read in the manual that it is recommended to jump Valium at either .5 mg or 1 mg. 

I’m dosing 3 times a day and hope to be finished the mid-day dose and into cutting my morning dose in 4 weeks. Taking 5 ml tablet at 8 am (tablet doesn’t make me as sleepy, 1.4 ml oral solution at 1 PM, and 5 ml oral solution at 6 PM. 

I’m calculating:
11.4 x 10% = 1.14 (round up to 1.2) 

New 1 PM dose .2

Next cut: 
10.2 x 10% = 1.02 (cut 1 ml)
So cut the .2 ml from 1 PM dose and .8 ml from morning dose. New morning dose = 4.2 ml.

Etc, etc. if my body allows the 10%. 

Should I, instead, cut evenly from the morning and evening doses versus eliminating the morning dose then moving on to the evening? 

Another question. Has anyone been able to do a 20% cut and been ok with a higher cut? Would that be crazy to consider? 

I’m still having to dose at least 6 hours from the nighttime medication I take for narcolepsy, hence the 5 hour spread versus 8 hour.

 

I apologize if asking some of the same questions as I might have previously. Feels like my situation has had a lot of changes and I’m just trying to settle into a routine my body agrees to. 

 

Edited September 9 by [mo...]

[[Ro...]]

44 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

@[Pa...] @[or...] @[or...] @[Do...]@[Ro...]

Checking in again. I’m currently on 11.4 ml as a mix of the Valium oral solution and tablets after the switch from lorazepam on 8/3. I’ve done two cuts from 12.5 to 12 after 10 days then to 11.4. I’m on day 9 at 11.4 ml and am not going to do another cut until we return from visiting our daughter on the 15th. 
 

Morning anxiety is still problematic and depression is hanging tight but I’m having windows here and there which I’m grateful for. Hoping I’m adjusting finally! 

I’m going to start doing 10% cuts and hope to be able to do it every 10 to 14 days from there. At what point would I consider microdosing or could I continue with the 10% cuts until I jump off? I read in the manual that it is recommended to jump Valium at either .5 mg or 1 mg. 

I’m dosing 3 times a day and hope to be finished the mid-day dose and into cutting my morning dose in 4 weeks. Taking 5 ml tablet at 8 am (tablet doesn’t make me as sleepy, 1.4 ml oral solution at 1 PM, and 5 ml oral solution at 6 PM. 

I’m calculating:
11.4 x 10% = 1.14 (round up to 1.2) 

New 1 PM dose .2

Next cut: 
10.2 x 10% = 1.02 (cut 1 ml)
So cut the .2 ml from 1 PM dose and .8 ml from morning dose. New morning dose = 4.2 ml.

Etc, etc. if my body allows the 10%. 

Should I, instead, cut evenly from the morning and evening doses versus eliminating the morning dose then moving on to the evening? 

Another question. Has anyone been able to do a 20% cut and been ok with a higher cut? Would that be crazy to consider? 

I’m still having to dose at least 6 hours from the nighttime medication I take for narcolepsy, hence the 5 hour spread versus 8 hour.

I apologize if asking some of the same questions as I might have previously. Feels like my situation has had a lot of changes and I’m just trying to settle into a routine my body agrees to. 

Sounds like you're making very good progress.  I'm sure somebody somewhere has made a 20% or larger cut and been all right with it, but if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't chance it.  I'd focus on possibly upping your taper to 10%.  

In my taper, I kept the percentage of reduction between 3% and 10%, averaging 7.5%.

[[mo...]]

38 minutes ago, [[R...] said:

Sounds like you're making very good progress.  I'm sure somebody somewhere has made a 20% or larger cut and been all right with it, but if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't chance it.  I'd focus on possibly upping your taper to 10%.  

In my taper, I kept the percentage of reduction between 3% and 10%, averaging 7.5%.

Thanks for the advice! 

[[Pa...]]

I agree with @[Ro...], better to be safe than sorry, especially since you're starting to have windows!  Remember what I told you, getting off the medication doesn't mean the end of symptoms, so use it to make your taper as soft as possible. 

Lets talk about your nighttime dose, are you looking to keep that one for as long as you can, I know it conflicts with your other medication so wondered if it would be better to work on eliminating that one? 

[[mo...]]

I think that should be the last I work on tapering. I’ve been skipping my first dose of xywav and it is working, I believe, because of the 6 PM Valium dose. This will give me time to work on getting completely off the xywav. I had just restarted it last fall and know it is contributing to the anxiety. I was taking my last Valium at 5 PM but moved it 6. I fall asleep around 11 and wake up at around 2-2:30 and take the one dose of xywav. Then take my morning dose of Valium at 8-8:30. 

[[Pa...]]

Ah, @[mo...], I see you've been working towards a notable goal of lessening the medication which could be adding to your anxiety, very good! 

[[mo...]]

18 hours ago, [[P...] said:

I agree with @[Ro...], better to be safe than sorry, especially since you're starting to have windows!  Remember what I told you, getting off the medication doesn't mean the end of symptoms, so use it to make your taper as soft as possible. 

Lets talk about your nighttime dose, are you looking to keep that one for as long as you can, I know it conflicts with your other medicatiso wondered if it would be better to work on eliminating that one? 

Not sure why it quoted this and not your last reply.
 

Thank you! It is my plan to get back to only being on thyroid meds as I don’t have a thyroid, so that is a bit of a must. Oh, and my BHRT. I also cut 5 mg buspirone almost 3 weeks ago. Know everyone said to not taper two things at same time but I’ve done fine. Don’t miss the mid day dose at all. 10 mg morning and 5 mg evening now. 

[[Pa...]]

1 hour ago, [[m...] said:

Thank you! It is my plan to get back to only being on thyroid meds as I don’t have a thyroid, so that is a bit of a must. Oh, and my BHRT. I also cut 5 mg buspirone almost 3 weeks ago. Know everyone said to not taper two things at same time but I’ve done fine. Don’t miss the mid day dose at all. 10 mg morning and 5 mg evening now. 

You sound really strong, as in confident, I love it!  

[[mo...]]

21 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

You sound really strong, as in confident, I love it!  

I wish I felt as confident as you think I sound. The depression is crushing me so it’s giving me a lot of doubts but I’m doing my best.

[[Pa...]]

1 hour ago, [[m...] said:

I wish I felt as confident as you think I sound. The depression is crushing me so it’s giving me a lot of doubts but I’m doing my best.

Your best is going to free you from this situation, I have no doubt.  

On a different topic, I was wondering about your thyroid, I don't have one either, lost it to papillary carcinoma, what about you? 

[[mo...]]

5 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

Your best is going to free you from this situation, I have no doubt.  

On a different topic, I was wondering about your thyroid, I don't have one either, lost it to papillary carcinoma, what about you? 

I had a large goiter on one side and multiple modules on the other. My sister-in-law had thyroid cancer so doctor said mine needed to go. I’m sorry you went through that!!
 

Trying to balance thyroid and sex hormones along with this tumor messing with them and getting off these meds is a challenge.

I just did some calculations and if I do a 10% cut every two weeks, it’s going to take me 56 weeks to get off of this medication. I don’t have the patience to go that long. Someone in one of the benzo support groups on Facebook said that they just cut half a milliliter every two weeks until they were done regardless of the dose they were on at the time. They said they did fine that way. That seems like a major call for problems doing it that way though. I can’t imagine dragging a taper out 56 weeks!! 

Edited September 10 by [mo...]

[[Pa...]]

I'm sorry you had to have yours removed too, thank goodness for thyroid hormones.  

We see so many different stories from people tapering these medications, I wish there were a one size fits all way of doing things but we're all too different.  I didn't taper but I'm pretty sure I'd have been lousy at it, adding up the months and years to get to the goal of being benzo free only to have to then be faced with recovery, not knowing how long that will be either. So yeah, I get you're distressed, its like having an open ended prison sentence. 

[[mo...]]

@[Pa...] You didn’t taper but went cold turkey??

Edited September 12 by [mo...]

[[Pa...]]

On 11/09/2024 at 05:01, [[m...] said:

@[Pa...] You didn’t taper but went cold turkey??

Yes, I didn't know benzo's needed to be tapered. 

[[mo...]]

1 minute ago, [[P...] said:

Yes, I didn't know benzo's needed to be tapered. 

I am so sorry! I can’t imagine the hell that put you through. Hugs!!

[[mo...]]

@[Pa...] @[or...] @[or...] @[Ro...]

 

Ok, on our way home from visiting our daughter. Morning anxiety is still problematic and the all day depression as well. I’m still assuming it’s from the Valium and hope as I taper this will lessen and I’ll feel better. My doctor is very open to prescribing what I need to get through a taper but isn’t very helpful in developing a taper plan.

Any help with ideas for a plan from here is greatly appreciated. I have done two cuts at 4% then 5% and thought to try a 10% for my next cut tomorrow.

Current schedule is 11.4 mg daily; 5 mg tablet at 8 AM, 1.4 ml oral solution at 1 PM and 5 ml oral solution at 5 PM. I follow this to ensure I have 5-6 hours between diazepam and xywav which I take at night for narcolepsy.

My plan was to take it from my 1 PM dose bringing it to .3 ml. Then the next cut would eliminate the 1 PM dose and start on the morning dose reducing it to 4 mg. Does this sound reasonable? How long is recommended to hold for at 10%? Dolvian is doing a micro dose taper but I’m not sure if that is the way I’d want to go. If I do 10% every 2 weeks, it looks like it would take me 44 weeks to get to a jump point of 1 mg. I really don’t want to take that long but not sure my body will give me a choice. Has anyone done a cut every 7-10 days and done well? If I tried that, would it suddenly catch up with me due to the half life of Valium? 
 

Was accepted as a patient and give an appointment with the head of the pituitary center at John Hopkins on 12 Nov and can’t wait to start treating  this tumor. My husband and I feel sure, after doing some reading and the way it is crashing my hormones, that it is a major contributing factor to the anxiety and panic. 
 

Thanks all! I can’t begin to express my appreciation of the support I’ve received in the short time been a member. 

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[mo...], I hope the visit with your daughter went well, did you share any of your challenges with her?  

It sounds like cortisol is plaguing your mornings with anxiety, I wish the depression would dissipate, I'm not sure when most folks who cross over say it happens.

It sounds like you're considering a 10% reduction, its probably a good idea so you can test the waters, I know you're thinking about the length of your taper.

As for your question about only waiting 7-10 days to reduce, some of that depends on how fast you metabolize the medication, with the last two reductions, when did you feel your symptoms had settled enough to reduce again?

 I would imagine since you're not doing a micro-taper that your symptoms won't catch up, its more likely you'll not be stable enough to reduce in the 7-10 day time frame if your symptoms haven't settled enough.

[[mo...]]

14 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

I would imagine since you're not doing a micro-taper that your symptoms won't catch up, its more likely you'll not be stable enough to reduce in the 7-10 day time frame if your symptoms haven't settled enough.

I figured that is being overly optimistic. Have you read of many who felt a micro-taper worked better for them?