Lorazepam to Valium

[[mo...]]

@[Do...] Picked up the oral solution and will start tomorrow. Anything o should be looking for as far as feeling differently? Will it go into effect faster than tablets? 

My sleep doctor almost didn’t approve my xywav refill (nighttime sleep med for narcolepsy) of the major interaction with Valium. The pharmacy said as long as I separated by 6 hours it would be ok but he was really upset. He didn’t know I was taking a benzo regularly. He wants a solid and quick taper plan in place before the next refill but we know it can’t do it quickly. Not sure what I will do if I can’t have that med to sleep. I know it will make anxiety much worse. Catch 22 no matter which way I go. 

[[Pa...]]

2 hours ago, [[m...] said:

He wants a solid and quick taper plan in place before the next refill

This isn't good, I hope you can show him current deprescribing guidelines to convince him this isn't possible. 

Worst case, would your other doctor prescribe the xywav?  

[[mo...]]

Unfortunately, he can’t prescribe it as he isn’t a sleep specialist. I’m hoping I can try to taper down how often I use xywav and eventually be able to get some sleep without. I explained to the sleep doctor that the taper is going to be dependent on how my body reacts.  He wasn’t happy about that at all. 

[Guest [Do...]]

@[mo...] I will try to answer the best i can.

12 hours ago, [[m...] said:

Picked up the oral solution and will start tomorrow. Anything o should be looking for as far as feeling differently? Will it go into effect faster than tablets?

Ok, if you get a decent brand you shouldn't notice any difference and the taste is not a problem, it has some sugar excipient added so it doesnt taste bad. The effect could be faster but nothing to worry about.

What is really important is how you are gonna take the liquid, if you take it directly you will have the same problem to taper small amounts as with the pills, i tell you what i do: i put 2ml which has 2mg of diazepam in a small jar you can close, (i will put a videop where i got the idea and how those recipients should be, it also has a great tip of how to use the syringe) then i add 18ml of water, so that way i have 20 ml of liquid with 2mg of diazepam in it (18 water + 2 liquid diaz) the shake it really well and that way you can remove your daily taper easy with a syringe.

Maths are simple: if i have 20ml of mixed (water+diaz) which has 2mg of diazepam that means every ml has 0.1mg of diazepam, it is very easy, with a syringe to remove for example in my case, 0.2ml of the mix wich is 0.02mg of diazepam, that is the amount i remove every day. This is used to be able to micro taper daily, big cuts are not good, you will eventually have to switch to micro taper if you keep making big cut you will suffer, remeber that a 0.5mg drop now can be only 4% for you but when your dose is lower, 0.5mg can be for example 20 or 30% and you're gonna get hurt if you cut that much.

If you have problem understanding this maths let me know and we will work till you understand it clearly and if you decide to go micro daily taper let me know and i will tell you some good strategies to use.

 

 

12 hours ago, [[m...] said:

My sleep doctor almost didn’t approve my xywav refill

Ok, as diazepam will help you sleep you might think if you still need to take this, i totally ignore what that medicine is and what it is for but if you only take it to help you sleep it might not be need it anymore. You should know if you can quit it or not and if it would need a slow taper cause the other option that is rapid taper the benzo is not posible.

If you cant quit that med and need to take both i would strongly recommend to try to have the least diazepam doses as posible, the best would be taking only one single dose a day as it has a long life and taking 2-3 doses only will make the effect overlap and have you sedated the whole time. I started 2 doses a day and very soon regret it, i went full taper from my morning dose and now that i almost got rid of that one i feel so much better and my symptoms improved greatly. Night dose never brought any issues.

i Also agree the pharmacist that to take something that makes you sleep/sedated with diazepam is not a good idea.

I also agree @[Pa...] that finding another doctor who helps you with the taper would be a good idea.

Edited August 30 by Guest
Added info

[[mo...]]

27 minutes ago, [[D...] said:

@[mo...] I will try to answer the best i can.

Ok, if you get a decent brand you shouldn't notice any difference and the taste is not a problem, it has some sugar excipient added so it doesnt taste bad. The effect could be faster but nothing to worry about.

What is really important is how you are gonna take the liquid, if you take it directly you will have the same problem to taper small amounts as with the pills, i tell you what i do: i put 2ml which has 2mg of diazepam in a small jar you can close, (i will put a videop where i got the idea and how those recipients should be, it also has a great tip of how to use the syringe) then i add 18ml of water, so that way i have 20 ml of liquid with 2mg of diazepam in it (18 water + 2 liquid diaz) the shake it really well and that way you can remove your daily taper easy with a syringe.

Maths are simple: if i have 20ml of mixed (water+diaz) which has 2mg of diazepam that means every ml has 0.1mg of diazepam, it is very easy, with a syringe to remove for example in my case, 0.2ml of the mix wich is 0.02mg of diazepam, that is the amount i remove every day. This is used to be able to micro taper daily, big cuts are not good, you will eventually have to switch to micro taper if you keep making big cut you will suffer, remeber that a 0.5mg drop now can be only 4% for you but when your dose is lower, 0.5mg can be for example 20 or 30% and you're gonna get hurt if you cut that much.

If you have problem understanding this maths let me know and we will work till you understand it clearly and if you decide to go micro daily taper let me know and i will tell you some good strategies to use.

Ok, as diazepam will help you sleep you might think if you still need to take this, i totally ignore what that medicine is and what it is for but if you only take it to help you sleep it might not be need it anymore. You should know if you can quit it or not and if it would need a slow taper cause the other option that is rapid taper the benzo is not posible.

If you cant quit that med and need to take both i would strongly recommend to try to have the least diazepam doses as posible, the best would be taking only one single dose a day as it has a long life and taking 2-3 doses only will make the effect overlap and have you sedated the whole time. I started 2 doses a day and very soon regret it, i went full taper from my morning dose and now that i almost got rid of that one i feel so much better and my symptoms improved greatly. Night dose never brought any issues.

i Also agree the pharmacist that to take something that makes you sleep/sedated with diazepam is not a good idea.

I also agree @[Pa...] that finding another doctor who helps you with the taper would be a good idea.

Thanks for the video! How long have you been tapering and how much longer do you have? I am going to do a micro taper as I get to a lower dose. I understand I can’t keep up a 4 or 5 % cut as I get lower as it will be bigger cuts with the lower doses. Right now I’m on 3 doses a day and the next cut will be from the mid-day dose as well. I’ll go from 2 mg to 1.4 which will be a 5% cut so my total daily dose will go from 12 to 11.6. First cut, a week ago, was from 12.5 to 12. Not doing another cut for 2 weeks.  I’ll continue that until the mid-day is gone and I’m only on 2 doses a day. I’m don’t want  to switch from 3 doses a day or even two to just one at this point. Don’t need any set backs. Had the worst panic attack last night. I am NOT this person. I’m usually then confident one who makes the decisions, handles finances, and helps others.  Now, I can even drive myself anywhere. 

[Guest [Do...]]

20 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

Thanks for the video! How long have you been tapering and how much longer do you have? I am going to do a micro taper as I get to a lower dose. I understand I can’t keep up a 4 or 5 % cut as I get lower as it will be bigger cuts with the lower doses. Right now I’m on 3 doses a day and the next cut will be from the mid-day dose as well. I’ll go from 2 mg to 1.4 which will be a 5% cut so my total daily dose will go from 12 to 11.6. First cut, a week ago, was from 12.5 to 12. Not doing another cut for 2 weeks.  I’ll continue that until the mid-day is gone and I’m only on 2 doses a day. I’m don’t want  to switch from 3 doses a day or even two to just one at this point. Don’t need any set backs. Had the worst panic attack last night. I am NOT this person. I’m usually then confident one who makes the decisions, handles finances, and helps others.  Now, I can even drive myself anywhere. 

I understand you very well, i was a soldier, a brave, self confident and strong person and i turned into a scared, weak cowardly person cause of psycho drugs and its side effects, they destroy our lives.

You should know what is best for you so try to go the best pace for you and if you need any help at any point just let me know.

[[mo...]]

@[Do...] Thank you for your service! I will definitely be reaching out as I do each step. I just don’t know whether I should do a daily micro-dose taper or taper every 2-3 weeks depending on what my body says. I don’t want to drag out a taper but also want to be functioning. I realize I messed up with the direct switch and then going into a taper a week later. Trust me, I’m paying the price. @[or...] @[or...] 

 

[Guest [Do...]]

2 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

depending on what my body says. I don’t want to drag out a taper but also want to be functioning.

It makes sense, in my experience from myself and others i met here, somewhere around 4-5mg you wont be able to cut anymore, it will probably be too much to bear and then you will have to go slowly and go micro tapering. Micro taper is much smoother and lets you be much more functional, waves become shorter and windows longer. I taper for 4 days and hold for 3 every week and also hold the whole last week every month even if i feel well and that has made the difference in my taper, all those firewalls are saving me from big waves and lately i get less than 24h of symptoms and go back to window again.

9 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

Trust me, I’m paying the price.

Dont be hard to yourself, we have to make multiple mistakes before we get to a calm and smooth spot in our taper process.

[[or...]]

I did a daily micro taper and got to about 5 days and it all caught up.  This was earlier on in my taper.  It made sense to me because my C tablet has a long half life, so I didn't feel any problems/sxs until a few days of tapering.  This is what happened to me anyway.

Now I can taper 5% and hold for 2 weeks, and taper again, but the last time I tried, a lot was going on in my life, higher anxiety, so I held 31 days.  I haven't read all the replies here just saw your last one this a.m. 

Thought I would just mention you might be better off in tapering and holding small amounts then see how you feel as you go, patience comes in real handy tapering off a benzo, I would do it the same way with any drug now, taper, hold, how do I feel (confident, stable, etc.), oregonlady ~ denise

[[mo...]]

On 23/08/2024 at 19:01, [[o...] said:

I used a jewelry scale I bought off Amazon to taper.  I also use a single edge razor-blade to slice or shave the tablets.  What I first do is I weight a handful of tablets to get an average weight.  My average weight of a Teva brand Clonazepam is .170g on my mg scale for example.  If I need to taper 5%, I do this little calculation I was taught:  .170 g X .95% = .161, so the .161 is my next tablet dose to weigh out on my scale.

I know you have way more to deal with than one tablet right now, but I think it's most important for me to get an accurate weight of dose.  Numbers, weighing, and calculating is not my strong point by far, but people here always help me if I need help with calculating but I have to decide what how much I should taper. 

It's also important to start, or change my taper "only" if I am at a stable point.  If I feel badly, I don't make another taper until I get through the last one, oregonlady

PS  A slow, micro taper is what I do, and when I started, I was breaking the pills with crappy cutters, and/fingernails which was so unreliable. You can also see my "Taper History for Oregonlady" of taper here, and look at @[Ro...] as well.  I can't recommend more, you make one for yourself as well.  We can help each other much better and also, I print mine out for my doctor, it helps them as well.

[[mo...]]

I took the oral solution for the first time. today and have slept al day. Seriously! From the first dose until I just took my second dose 6 hours later. Why would the oral be hitting me so hard? We made sure it’s the right amount. It is the 5 mg/5ml solution and I took the 5 this morning and 2 now. Nasty tasting too!

 

@[Do...]

[[or...]]

There's something I think in the chemisty that is different, or maybe, how our bodies digest it, and how it gets into our bloodstream.  I'm only guessing as I don't understand it all.  I have heard about different forms of clonazepam, for instance, having a different effect, so I've avoided changing.  I am used to tapering from a tablet so I'm figuring not to change "horses" so to speak.  If it works I don't want to take the chance of changing it oregonlady~denise PS you can probably regulate the liquid, with docs help, or maybe go back to your original for of benzo,

[[Li...]]

28 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

I took the oral solution for the first time. today and have slept al day. Seriously! From the first dose until I just took my second dose 6 hours later. Why would the oral be hitting me so hard? We made sure it’s the right amount. It is the 5 mg/5ml solution and I took the 5 this morning and 2 now. Nasty tasting too!

Possibilities include (1) a difference in the bioavailability of the liquid dosage form versus the solid dosage form and (2) a (slight) difference in the amount of active pharmaceutical ingredient (API) in the liquid versus the solid dosage form. (Manufacturers are allowed some variability in API amount from the reference standard both for liquid and solid dosage forms; if the manufacturer of your tablets was on the low side and the manufacturer of your liquid is on the high side of the allowed variability, you might notice this difference). 

Possible solutions to consider include: (1) Give your body time to adjust to the new dosage form and (2) Take 1/2 of your dose in solid dosage form and 1/2 in liquid form.

Re: the nasty taste … The official FDA label for the concentrated diazepam oral solution states the following: 

“It is recommended that Diazepam Intensol Oral Solution be mixed with liquid or semi-solid food such as water, juices, soda or soda-like beverages, applesauce and puddings … Draw into the oral syringe the amount prescribed for a single dose. Then empty the oral syringe contents into a liquid or semi-solid food. Stir the liquid or food gently for a few seconds. The Diazepam Intensol Oral Solution formulation blends quickly and completely. The entire amount of the mixture, of drug and liquid or drug and food, should be consumed immediately. Do not store for future use.”

Although you may wish to confirm this with your pharmacist, my guess is it would be ok to follow a similar procedure with the 5mg/5mL oral solution. 

 

[Guest [Do...]]

2 hours ago, [[m...] said:

I took the oral solution for the first time. today and have slept al day. Seriously! From the first dose until I just took my second dose 6 hours later. Why would the oral be hitting me so hard? We made sure it’s the right amount. It is the 5 mg/5ml solution and I took the 5 this morning and 2 now. Nasty tasting too!

@[Do...]

@[mo...] along with the hypersomnia, did you feel better? more relaxed? less anxiety?

A little over sleep sound good to me...

I was taking generic cheal low quality pills and when i switched to liquid from a decent brand i felt better instantly and my symptoms improved.

And remember, even if it feel good (the switch) hold on a little till you get used to the change.

Edited September 1 by Guest

[[mo...]]

@[Do...] I can’t tell because I just can’t stay wake. Only thing I do know is that I’m so depressed on Valium. All I do is cry, and now on the oral, all I do is cry when I’m awake which is for short periods. Maybe I need to take less of the oral? I sent my doctor a message asking him. 

[[Pa...]]

I'm so sorry you're feeling depressed, I remember feeling that when I was taking Ambien, it scared me, it was so dark and hopeless, I gained a lot of empathy for people who live with chronic depression.  

It does seem like you're overmedicated, I'm glad you're asking your doctor, 

6 hours ago, [[L...] said:

Possible solutions to consider include: (1) Give your body time to adjust to the new dosage form and (2) Take 1/2 of your dose in solid dosage form and 1/2 in liquid form.

What do you think about @[Li...] suggestion?

[[mo...]]

@[Pa...]What do you think about @[Li...] suggestion

I’ll have to see if my doctor is agreeable to that. I just want to  give up. 

 

 

[[mo...]]

The morning anxiety is horrendous! Then add in the worsening of depression and I’ve only done one small cut almost 2 weeks ago and I’m miserable. I don’t t think I can do this. How can I when things are already this bad?? For my third dose yesterday, I had some tablets left so took them vs the oral solution. I don’t know what to do any more. Between the tumor and this medicine, I’m truly done. 

[[Pa...]]

@[mo...], when my daughter was an adolescent, and upset about what young children get upset about, I used to tell her that everything is always changing and what we're dealing with now, what we're facing now will change, it won't stay like this.  Sometimes it changes for the worse, other times the better but its important to understand this when we're in the depths of despair, which is where you are.

I know it feels hopeless but you'll get a lifeline that will give you hope, I don't know what it will be or when it will come but it will fortify you for what comes next.  I know your well is dry, you have no reserves left to keep fighting but I also know you will because you're a fighter.  You may feel defeated but that part of you that keeps you going is going to rise up and take care of you once again.

Okay, pep talk over, lets get down to practical matters, what was your reaction to using the using the tablets?

[Guest [Do...]]

12 hours ago, [[P...] said:

It does seem like you're overmedicated, I'm glad you're asking your doctor,

@[mo...] i agree @[Pa...] here again, i started with 2mg diazepam night and 2mg morning and the mornig dose was devastating, it was way too oversedating and had me so depressed and feeling dizzy and that i was gonna pass out at any moment, i solved this problem by splitting my morning dose in 2 and taper only from the middle dose till it was done and the taper the morning dose, it worked for me and i was feel eventually better as the dose was lower. Your dose is much higher so ican't imagine what you're have to deal with.

Valium is not for everybody, the oversedation and the depresion can be so disabilitating and hard to bear.

I never felt like that with lorazepam.

Edited September 2 by Guest

[[mo...]]

 @[Do...] but I’m already doing a middle of the day dose so would be doing 4 doses if I split my morning dose. 

[Guest [Do...]]

25 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

 @[Do...] but I’m already doing a middle of the day dose so would be doing 4 doses if I split my morning dose. 

I know, plus your dose is already big enough so even if you split it wouldnt make any difference, i didn't mean you should do what i did, just wanted to let you know that valium is always gonna knock you down even in lower doses.

Sometimes people have to go back to the old benzo, this is what i meant with valium is not for everybody.

Edited September 2 by Guest

[[mo...]]

@[Do...] understand! I’ve been on if for a month so guess I should stick it out. 

[[mo...]]

I’m not doing well on this oral solution. I’ve reached out to my doctor twice without a reply. How hard would it be to switch back to Ativan after a month on Valium? He said I could reduce to 11.5 from 12 mg but until I get this sleeping and depression under control, I don’t want to chance upsetting the Apple cart any more than it already is. Will I ever get off this? All I can do is sleep within 20 minutes of taking my dose. I’m sleeping my life away and when I’m awake I’m crying. Still have that anxiety lump in my chest too. I can’t win! @[Pa...] @[or...] @[or...] @[Do...]

[[Pa...]]

What a mess @[mo...], I'm so sorry but I feel it would be wise to try to reduce the Valium before giving up on it entirely.  It seems like you're overmedicated and if that's the case, then a reduction would be the right thing to do.  You would only be out a couple of days if you try this, I hope you can.